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Oh no doubt the programing is the hardest part of Zlayers. But i like the idea of like 5 Z layers max (1-2 underground layers and 3 top layers). Maybe make it so certain materials can only support x amount of layers on top ( ie wood can only support one layer above it, stone can support 2 , etc.) And no mushroom buildings, make every block need some sort of support below it I think it could work if you're more pragmatic than the 100+ Z layers DF has.
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Feb 20, 2024 01:57
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Hihohe posted:Oh no doubt the programing is the hardest part of Zlayers. But i like the idea of like 5 Z layers max (1-2 underground layers and 3 top layers). Maybe make it so certain materials can only support x amount of layers on top ( ie wood can only support one layer above it, stone can support 2 , etc.) And no mushroom buildings, make every block need some sort of support below it This is the key. We don't need 100+ DF type Z levels with a realm of game ending lag at the bottom. Yeah Z levels can make things more complex, but if you stick with 5 of them, and remember that 2 will be 90+% impassible rock, and 2 will be probably 70-80% impassible empty sky, then it gets much more manageable.
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Feb 20, 2024 04:24
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1,000 Z levels or bust, I’m afraid
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Feb 20, 2024 04:40
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1000 z levels into space, SoS becomes integrated in the game
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Feb 20, 2024 04:44
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Z levels that take you into orbit and ping an alert for each level whenever an asteroid event happens
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Feb 20, 2024 04:44
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Technical challenges of welding extra z-levels onto the game aside, adding even only a handful of them would involve substantial UI changes have significant impacts on readability. Trying to manage pawns in a big fight can already be challenging enough, but spread them out across multiple floors and now you're going to be stretching the available attention for a lot of players. Imagine a drop pod raid punching into your base and the chaos that would cause, with raiders scattered throughout different floors and shooting at pawns on other floors through those entry holes. You can definitely make a fun game out of it, but there would need to be deep rework of combat mechanics to make it less frustrating. Tynan's very big on simplifying things as much as possible - arguably too simple in some cases, but it's that same simplicity that makes the game such a great base to bolt on other mods. A hypothetical Rimworld 2 with full 3D rendering like an expanded Sims game would be pretty awesome though, I would definitely check that out.
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Feb 20, 2024 04:57
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I've advocated for a small number of Z-levels in the past (I'm thinking three to five) but it would definitely require some very careful thought and a lot of testing to implement well.
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Feb 20, 2024 05:35
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Haifisch posted:There's a difference between "this thing happening can remove a roof tile and make dudes spawn around there" and "the game is set up to simulate everything on multiple interacting map levels". I don't know enough about programming to guess what all the issues could be, but I'm sure pathfinding alone would become considerably more complex. (or not, and lead to stuff like how DF dwarves sometimes go down and up 30 flights of stairs to grab something instead of grabbing one 6 steps away on the same floor, because the former was technically closer via z levels) the big issue is that the game is all still single threaded, which is good for making sure things happen in an order, but sucks for things like calculating pathing for a lot of entities on a big map
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Feb 20, 2024 05:42
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LonsomeSon posted:1,000 Z levels or bust, I’m afraid 1,000 Z levels of animals pathfinding to your beer, drinking it all, then dying from overdosing on beer.
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Feb 20, 2024 06:32
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Duct Tape Engineer posted:the big issue is that the game is all still single threaded, which is good for making sure things happen in an order, but sucks for things like calculating pathing for a lot of entities on a big map Think the Z-level discussion is primarily about a theoretically Rimworld 2. Trying to add layers as complex as Z-levels to the existing Rimworld engine would fail horribly for the very reason you describe here, yeah. The game already runs the risk of TPS death as it is if your colony gets big and old enough and you have enough wealth to summon giganto raids or are running a big chicken farm or something.
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Feb 20, 2024 07:01
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Rimworld already has an in-game reason for not digging down much, the planet's soil is infested with bugs and they're just constantly tunneling around and laying eggs everywhere all the time, even in the solid rock of granite mountains. Dig down much and you're in bug hell-world 24/7. Even just having some pollution on the surface is enough to draw a bunch of bug cocoons to the surface And I guess if you build some big fuckin' tower you're probably just inviting raiders to come and burn it down. idk it's hard to justify not letting people have a second story aside from "that's a lot of hard work to implement and we don't think it's worth it"
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Feb 20, 2024 07:04
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SugarAddict posted:1,000 Z levels of animals pathfinding to your beer, drinking it all, then dying from overdosing on beer. QuarkJets posted:And I guess if you build some big fuckin' tower you're probably just inviting raiders to come and burn it down. idk it's hard to justify not letting people have a second story aside from "that's a lot of hard work to implement and we don't think it's worth it"
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Feb 20, 2024 07:14
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Build up too high and you end up with drop pods filled with tourists constantly crashing into you because there's no air traffic controllers.
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Feb 20, 2024 07:15
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Duct Tape Engineer posted:the big issue is that the game is all still single threaded, which is good for making sure things happen in an order, but sucks for things like calculating pathing for a lot of entities on a big map this is the biggest change I'd like to see. Even if he just (I've no clue if this would work) put different actions on different threads. Farming on one, pathfinding on another, combat on another etc etc.
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Feb 20, 2024 11:05
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isndl posted:A hypothetical Rimworld 2 with full 3D rendering like an expanded Sims game would be pretty awesome though, I would definitely check that out. Stranded: Alien Dawn is pretty much exactly this, it just doesn't have the depth of Rimworld (yet?).
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Feb 20, 2024 19:22
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Yeah, I left a negative review for that months ago on the basis that the whole game is 3D Rimworld with less depth. Their community didn't like it but it's one of my most viewed reviews to date. I though I was spot on personally. It's ok, but it needs a lot more complexity, interweaving mechanics etc before it can really be considered on par.
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Feb 20, 2024 20:11
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Moon Slayer posted:Stranded: Alien Dawn is pretty much exactly this, it just doesn't have the depth of Rimworld (yet?). It's a pretty good game, very well-made, it looks great and runs very well on modest hardware. I would like it if there were a couple more biome variations but these are a ton of work to create compared to 2d so I don't blame them for having fewer with higher quality. e: No it is definitely not on par with Rimworld in terms of depth and replay value but it's pretty good for what it is 
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Feb 20, 2024 20:12
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Yeah, a few more biomes, more furniture/fixtures to play The Sims with, and a Bad Hygiene-like system and it'll be great.
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Feb 20, 2024 20:36
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I'll have to be the contrarian and hope that Stranded doesn't add a DBH-like system. I stuck that into my latest run to finally try it out and the degree of additional needs-managing it imposes on the pawns is too much for my tastes. I can see why people like, but it's definitely not for me. If I delete all of the structures I created for it, is it safe to remove DBH from a save, or will the needs get "burned in" to the pawns and cause the save to detonate if the mod is missing?
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Feb 20, 2024 21:23
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World Famous W posted:im dumb and don't know how to code but im trying!
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Feb 20, 2024 21:29
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World Famous W posted:asking again if any mod makers are here and can point to some sort of help/guide that aint the wiki It really should be in vanilla rimworld to basically make a outsider faction with the Xenos youve made without having to mod it. Hope you figure out, i wanted to do the same but im to lazy to mod anything
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Feb 20, 2024 21:38
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yeah, i managed to make a local mod that added my custom xeno as an in game one and made a faction for them that i can load up (even included a little settlement icon for them that looks like a picket fence) but unfortunately it still just uses the base tribal template. i can't figure out how to make a custom faction (names, trade goods, raid types, etc) also the trying to add a "grows wool that is shearable" looks like it'll be straight code and i figure it's as good a place as anywhere to start learning
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Feb 20, 2024 22:09
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Kestral posted:I'll have to be the contrarian and hope that Stranded doesn't add a DBH-like system. I stuck that into my latest run to finally try it out and the degree of additional needs-managing it imposes on the pawns is too much for my tastes. I can see why people like, but it's definitely not for me. If I delete all of the structures I created for it, is it safe to remove DBH from a save, or will the needs get "burned in" to the pawns and cause the save to detonate if the mod is missing? What needs managing, out of curiosity? On default settings you can handle the hygiene/poop needs entirely by placing a couple of wells and latrines randomly around your base and forgetting about them besides placing a zone somewhere to dump the poop. You only need to interact with the water piping and stuff if you want to scale up to fancy stuff like hot tubs and sprinklers or if you want to interact with the HVAC.
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Feb 20, 2024 23:56
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I think their issue is that it takes time out the pawns day to go poop/shower, not that the micro is to bad.
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Feb 21, 2024 00:10
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Rather than uninstalling it, go to the mod options and try the "lite mode" first. It reduces a lot of the mechanics..
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Feb 21, 2024 02:29
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Telsa Cola posted:I think their issue is that it takes time out the pawns day to go poop/shower, not that the micro is to bad. Exactly, yeah. Every additional need is one more thing that gets in the way of pawns doing everything else they need to do (their jobs, recreation, sleeping, fighting off raids, etc.), and the hygiene needs affect their schedule in ways that have annoying ripple effects on the rest of the day. I suspect this would be less the case in a more typical Rimworld base that's run like a beehive, where every pawn either: 1) Lives in a tiny cubicle across from their work assignment and refectory, and rarely goes more than 30 tiles from their bed 2) Lives, works, plays, and sleeps in a gigantic hallway full of shelves and work benches and tables and beds that they consider beautiful because it has four very nice statues in it My bases, uh, do not look like that. They're inefficient already, just because I hate imagining my lil' guys living in a hellhole, and adding DBH needs into that equation is a tipping point from inefficient into "Oh for god's sake just BUILD IT already!" Which then does create additional micro for me as a player while I try to get something done in a hurry for [insert one of a thousand reasons Randy throws at you to encourage you to do things promptly]. It's a cool mod and I appreciate what it does, but it runs on assumptions about how Rimworld is played that I don't fully share. Also the buildings are ugly and there's no retextures for them, and that is the gravest sin of all. It's super weird to me that DBH and RimAtomics don't have extensive retexture packs for them, considering how popular they are and how jarring the art style is - from what I can tell, the only actual retexture for RimAtomics came out a month ago, covers only the consoles, and basically nobody knows about it.
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Feb 21, 2024 02:35
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I build big poorly optimized sprawling bases that take up 2/3rds of a large map and regularly make incredibly inefficient choices like huge 10x10 individual bedroom buildings for the sake of aesthetics/roleplaying and I have never noticed taking a poo poo taking very much time out of a pawn's day as long as there's bathroom facilities scattered around the base in a way where a pawn doesn't need to walk across the map to use them. It's not really any different from placing tables around a large base instead of just in your main dining room to make sure that they don't either have to walk for three hours to eat lunch or shove the meal in their pocket into their mouth standing around.
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Feb 21, 2024 03:30
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Kanos posted:
Yeah I prefer aesthetics over min maxxing. It only comes into play if you're upping the difficulty. Rimworld is infinitely more fun making a RP base than doing the poo poo adamvseverything does
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Feb 21, 2024 03:32
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I also play on high difficulties while making inefficient bases, I just defend them with triple layered walls, mortar batteries, and Home Alone-tier killbox trap corridors. 
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Feb 21, 2024 03:36
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Doltos posted:Yeah I prefer aesthetics over min maxxing. It only comes into play if you're upping the difficulty. Rimworld is infinitely more fun making a RP base than doing the poo poo adamvseverything does Big agree, though watching the shenanigans someone like Adam can pull off can be a good time. I'd never want to play like he does, but watching him mangle the game despite Randy 500%'s best efforts scratches a similar itch to speedruns. I swear I learn a completely new facet of the mechanics every time I watch one of his games - which also says a lot about the sheer complexity of Rimworld, because I've been playing this game a long-rear end time.
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Feb 21, 2024 04:00
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It has always felt weird to me that there was no system for water in Rimworld. Clean drinking water is top of the list of poo poo to secure in a sudden survival situation like falling out of orbit on a plume of fire.
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Feb 21, 2024 05:03
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Well as much poo poo as I give Rimworld as a story generator it sure did just generate me a loving story alright. I send a pair of colonists off to go check out a site so they hop in the car and drive off, but I guess they weren't watching where they were going because they run over a gorilla. Which aggros the rest of the gorillas but the two colonists have already driven off, so the gorillas start making for my actual base. The rest of the colonists managed to kill them but they sure did a number on them first.
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Feb 21, 2024 05:30
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Kanos posted:I also play on high difficulties while making inefficient bases, I just defend them with triple layered walls, mortar batteries, and Home Alone-tier killbox trap corridors. Don't forget the rimfactory stockpile puller to pull the corpses and weapons out of the way into your massive stockpile of corpes and weapons, that way when someone is knocked down but not killed they don't teleport though walls or behind your defense line, which they can then get up and vomit flames on someone or punch an AM grain warhead.
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Feb 21, 2024 06:36
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LonsomeSon posted:It has always felt weird to me that there was no system for water in Rimworld. Clean drinking water is top of the list of poo poo to secure in a sudden survival situation like falling out of orbit on a plume of fire. Isn’t there a simple terraforming mod but since there aren’t water physics you can’t build reservoirs or dams the way you can in df?
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Feb 21, 2024 06:49
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VideoWitch posted:Well as much poo poo as I give Rimworld as a story generator it sure did just generate me a loving story alright. I send a pair of colonists off to go check out a site so they hop in the car and drive off, but I guess they weren't watching where they were going because they run over a gorilla. Which aggros the rest of the gorillas but the two colonists have already driven off, so the gorillas start making for my actual base. The rest of the colonists managed to kill them but they sure did a number on them first. Lolling at this entire story. Colony ends up with a bunch of broken bones and hospital-level bruises because someone ran over a gorilla and his tribe took revenge. Beautiful.
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Feb 21, 2024 09:10
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The mechanical trade-off of having to manage poop and showers is that your pawns get bonus mood and you get free biowaste and access to water features (including temperature control and farm fertility bonuses). Beyond the mechanical side it's great because it's cool to build elaborate bathhouses and nice, sterile bathrooms, etc., to add variety to your base and it's kind of the only missing layer of the idea of the simulation. Everyone's gotta eat, gotta drink, gotta poop, gotta sleep. jokes fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Feb 21, 2024 |
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Feb 21, 2024 18:37
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World Famous W posted:asking again if any mod makers are here and can point to some sort of help/guide that aint the wiki The official forums have a bunch of tools and content https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?board=12.0 A reddit tutorial with coding https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/13aj8r8/hi_me_again_delivering_another_beginners_guide_to/ His previous tutorial that may overlap https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/olayyw/hi_op_here_im_delivering_you_my_beginners_guide/ Adding wool to a creature sounds like an xml mod but I'm not fully versed on it
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Feb 21, 2024 18:54
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please do not run over the noble gorilla it's not ok all i know about modding is i was able to change the xml to allow ancient vases to be filled with wort with the command thing, and they would ferment, but i did not change the files enough that pawns would put wort into them or take beer out of them (presumably there's some job.xml or something that i forgot to look at and add lines to)
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Feb 21, 2024 19:15
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My current base is built on both sides of a river. I made a killbox that wasn't on the river, and I've noticed that almost all enemies can't resist the siren song of an open door that may or may not have a maze of traps behind it. But sometimes some enemies will try walking in the river to get in my base. I kinda like it like this, it means I have to stay on my toes when I get raided. Also enemies wading through the river are easy targets. Does anyone else build around rivers? I'm not even running the mods that use water, maybe I should try out the lite mode.
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Feb 21, 2024 19:45
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I like rivers because water wheels are cheaper to get to than geothermal & I usually end up doing some extreme temp bullshit where I'm going to be needing a lot of steady power asap. Mega rivers are cool on big maps where it's some crazy loving jungle anyway, and it's hopefully going to be easy to build up decent bridges you may need, but the trade off is you're less likely to get interesting weird rock formations. Still, I have had a few with like a thermal vent right up next to a river in a freezing cold forest. Forested swamps are maybe one of the underrated vanilla biomes I think. The cost of course is that literally everything can burn
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Feb 21, 2024 20:00
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