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The memes make themselves https://twitter.com/jushdied/status/1759827328660836535
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Feb 20, 2024 20:22
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unattended spaghetti posted:I swear there's something about namco. They've always had dodgy netcode in all their online fighting games and I swear there's nobody working on ux at that company. Training mode is missing some good features, the whole interface flow is kinda poo poo, fonts too small, all kinds of little things. I think 8 is a step in the right direction but I would say that is only because SF6 demonstrated aptly how to provide a pleasant new player experience. And even that game is still clunky as hell in the interface details. Man, I don't know how many people have this as their first tekken, but things even in 7 used to suck a lot more. A reminder that there was no frame data in tekken 7 til halfway through the games cycle and you had to pay for it when they added it (luckily for me it was included in that season DLC bundle which I got). You used to have to go to sites like RBNorway.org to look up your characters data. Also theyve made attempts at explaining concepts to new players and the replay mode. There was none of that even in T7, you just had to find it all yourself. I said come in! posted:Like this wouldn't have really affected my decision to buy Tekken 8, I still would have done it, but it feels really scummy to put in a microtransaction premium cash shop a month after release. It only reads as the developer say "we didn't want the bad press that cash shops always get, so we are going to try to quietly sneak it in there later." This might be an unpopular opinion but whatever here it goes. If Tekken is pricing costumes at 4 dollars, I'd probably rather them have this shop than not. T7 had a similar number of costumes as T8 does now and that was it for the games cycle. Over the NINE years of Tekken 7, aside from balancing, the only new content we got was characters and stages. If the store money encourages them to keep updating and adding things I'm all for it. Like the 3v3 and 5v5 modes they talked about, fixing netcode further, events etc. At the end of the day its just cosmetics. This is a bit different because I play them "for free" with gamepass but I like SoT and MS flight sim and both of those games keep getting loads of fresh content for years now that is given to the player for free and its subsidized by whales buying parrot skins and weird lovely airplanes and airports in east austria (I havent spent a dime in either game). If there were no transactions SoT would be a very different and worse game and FS players would miss out on the continued (great) detailed world updates and fun free planes we get. In summary MTX is here, theres bad versions (overpriced,give in game advantages), and beneficial ones (cosmetic, help keep the game updated with new content) so I dont really mind the Tekken shop. I'll probably get like 1 eddy costume and 1 other and won't regret spending 8 tekken bucks over it. Seltzer fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Feb 20, 2024 |
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Feb 20, 2024 21:26
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Katsuhiro Harada is still so disappointed with Tekken 4 that you have to pay him to use the Tekken 4 costumes.
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Feb 20, 2024 21:30
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The one thing I will concede which is intentional and very funny is that they definitely would have normally put the bikini and fundoshi skins in the base game for everyone and not just Azucena if there was going to be no shop, but theyre going to charge the FGC pervs for it, which imo they deserve.
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Feb 20, 2024 21:33
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And of course, they put the TTT2 Jun in the store in the trailer... ...goddamnit. 
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Feb 20, 2024 22:54
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They should have charged for no shoes as well. drat it Namco, get your act together, you're leaving perv money on the table!
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Feb 20, 2024 22:55
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So I got around to the eddy video from the other day.... I'm not a fan of what theyve done with him. Making launch and combos more accessible to new players was not necessary at all, his launch was not hard (df 3+4), and his normal combos were medium difficulty with a few harder things for niche cases. I think however the mashing combos they showed will be well short of optimal so whatever. Some other issues - the install mechanic is super lame. This is tekken, in t6 all you had to pay attention to was rage, and that was just a player doing more dmg when low health. Now for some reason I need to care about heat, rage, RAs, and installs (I want to play tekken not SF). Absolutely pointless, instead of gating moves behind install just balance his standard movelist. Really not a fan of that. The last thing is his relax stance (negativa) now seems transitional. You always used to be able to sit in it for as long as you liked and it was a big part of his conditioning and mind games. This was not confirmed either way but the dev never sat in that stance and the new animation looks like you can't now... I'm legit kinda annoyed at what I saw.
Seltzer fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Feb 21, 2024 |
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Feb 20, 2024 23:55
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They’re doing this so Christie can be classic capo
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Feb 20, 2024 23:56
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Seltzer posted:Man, I don't know how many people have this as their first tekken, but things even in 7 used to suck a lot more. A reminder that there was no frame data in tekken 7 til halfway through the games cycle and you had to pay for it when they added it (luckily for me it was included in that season DLC bundle which I got). You used to have to go to sites like RBNorway.org to look up your characters data. Walking into golfland at 9 am with my notebook with frame data collated from good gamefaqs posters and shoryuken while everyone else pulls theirs out and compares their data with everyone elses because this new Dragunov fella is v annoying.
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Feb 21, 2024 00:06
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Every DLC character is Fahkumram and there is nothing you can do about it.
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Feb 21, 2024 00:09
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God I'm so bad at tekken  Whenever I play versus opponents that mostly pick moves that are + or not really punishable I get completely lost on defense, and other than pokes or occasionally punishing a bad option I still feel like I don't really "get" lili's offense. Maybe I should play someone with more access to + frames.. Might spend some time playing Azucena again and see how that feels, or maybe try out Alisa and see if the chainsaws gel more Weird Pumpkin fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Feb 21, 2024 |
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Feb 21, 2024 00:12
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Weird Pumpkin posted:God I'm so bad at tekken Usually moves that seem "broken" frame-wise are linear and get beaten by sidestepping, and Lili has the best sidestep in the game. This video has a huge section on it and also some mindset stuff on learning the game that might be helpful https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqZndya05yg
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Feb 21, 2024 00:32
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Usually moves that seem "broken" frame-wise are linear and get beaten by sidestepping, and Lili has the best sidestep in the game. Oh no I mean, I definitely get that I need to sidestep/sidewalk and duck highs more often. I just don't end up doing it  I'll check it out though for sure edit: honestly tho it's mostly just salt (and the fact that I was working till midnight last night and started working again at like 6:30 am so like, hecka tired rip) Weird Pumpkin fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Feb 21, 2024 |
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Feb 21, 2024 00:37
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Weird Pumpkin posted:Oh no I mean, I definitely get that I need to sidestep/sidewalk and duck highs more often. I just don't end up doing it I feel you. I generally win in one of about three ways. First, poke them out and play the range and bait game. Second, if it comes to range zero, abuse the dick jab, the df1, and the fastest lows I've got. Third, plus frames. I have not one a match in the traditional launch and combo style even once so far. I've stepped and crouched some highs here and there, but the problem with this as a new player is loving it up may very well cost you the round. I feel like Tekken more than other games is sorta kinda about creating the environment you need to win, and if you end up playing someone else's game you will burn for it. Stepping and ducking are great and all, but at the end of the day it comes down to a string by string basis and tbh I'm not the biggest fan of that as a newcomer. It feels like gambling in a way. When you are operating on nearly no legacy knowledge, and you can't just download all that stuff into your brain, you are just kinda sticking your best guesses out there. Once I kinda just accepted that I'm gonna get blown up by stupid poo poo as often as not I started having more fun with it. On the up side, it creates a pretty wide match variance, except for King, Law, and Hworang, who I'm convinced share a degenerate hive mind.
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Feb 21, 2024 00:57
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unattended spaghetti posted:Stepping and ducking are great and all, but at the end of the day it comes down to a string by string basis Yeah, Tekken is a 3D game so using the Z axis is important at some point. Like if a player notices you can't break throws or block snake edges (lol this is me) then they will just abuse those things because they work and the tool that definitively stops them is unavailable to you. It's the same with incredibly oppressive linear moves that are quick startup and plus on block (which there are even more of in T8 compared to 7 lol). Anyway the thesis of the video I linked above is about getting beyond labbing defenses to individual strings which is why I thought it was interesting. Timing a sidestep as the "button" you've selected in neutral or even if you're slightly minus is always an option, and because it means you're pulling the player off axis, even a quick jab from them will create an opening for you, let alone if they committed to a whole string or a big move. If this is "gambling" then basically every button in neutral is a gamble lol
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Feb 21, 2024 01:44
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One thing I'm terrible about when stepping is picking the right button to punish. I just can't help myself from trying to launch and I'm always just a little too slow lol
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Feb 21, 2024 02:10
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I agree that I'm not too hyped for the Eddie gameplay redesign. I don't want to have to build up tokens and cash them in for moves. Tekken is getting too full of cruft already. Fighting games always trend towards adding a bunch of nonsense that has nothing to do with fighting and just clutters things up. I guess there are people out there who get hyped for more bars and tokens but it's not me.
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Feb 21, 2024 03:12
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 This is the ranked spread rn. I got to shinryu a couple days ago and took a break, slowly climbed up a bit towards tenryu today. I dunno how the points system works at all. I beat a Victor Tenryu and got 800 points then beat a low purple and got 500. Reds ranks are still crazy place, there are low purples I destroy and Garyus low parrying and stepping everything perfectly.
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Feb 21, 2024 05:07
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Yeah, Tekken is a 3D game so using the Z axis is important at some point. Like if a player notices you can't break throws or block snake edges (lol this is me) then they will just abuse those things because they work and the tool that definitively stops them is unavailable to you. It's the same with incredibly oppressive linear moves that are quick startup and plus on block (which there are even more of in T8 compared to 7 lol). Okay if I'm understanding you correctly, there's actually two ways to think of stepping. One, the way I have been doing it, to try to preemptive step on strings that look linear. Two, and this makes a lot of sense now that I'm thinking of it, take advantage of frame States to step at opportune times. Do I have that right? Because if so it is kinda blowing my mind rn. Something so simple should have been obvious but I guess I didn't think through the implications. What's the average time a step takes in frames? How plus or minus can you be to more or less be sure you're safe, assuming they don't toss out a tracking move? Also because I was testing responses in punishment on replays, when would you want to full side walk versus step? Is there a rule of thumb there? I noticed some stuff I could step and not walk, and vice versa. unattended spaghetti fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Feb 21, 2024 |
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Feb 21, 2024 06:51
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Weird Pumpkin posted:God I'm so bad at tekken Lili is a 50/50 robbery character with disgusting options from back turn stance. Combine that with her f4 for keep out, solid lows, and sidestep on your slight minus frames to make people respect her. Then if that works you get to be a poke character.
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Feb 21, 2024 06:52
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Hit my first wall on ranked as Azucena around vanquisher/destroyer. I seem to be running up against a lot of Reina, Victor, Lili, Law, Feng, Jun, and Steve which are all pretty annoying. I'm considering trying on some other characters for size but not particularly interested in picking up any that seem to be getting a lot of play on the ladder or are somewhat obnoxious(read: characters with easily spammable bullshit I have been able to fully handle yet). Some characters I'm considering right now are: Dragunov, Leo, Jack-8, Claudio, and Leroy. I'm trying to get away from the button mashing but suspect there is a ceiling to how capable I am of learning the tougher mechanics, moves, combos, etc. I have been using a pretty beat up PS4 controller but am now testing out keyboard in quick match to see if it's a viable alternative and if leverless is an option worth considering either for ergonomics or gameplay performance.
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Feb 21, 2024 08:53
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Levin posted:I'm trying to get away from the button mashing but suspect there is a ceiling to how capable I am of learning the tougher mechanics, moves, combos, etc. I can only do combos with 2 characters, always hit 1 to try to break anything resembling throws, never ever sidestep (and barely even bother trying to backdash in this one since it doesn't seem to get me out of the way of anything), etc., and after plateauing with my main at flame ruler, I'm pretty comfortably in the process of getting everyone else up to the red ranks. Good execution or complex gameplans really aren't necessary if you just ("just" is very relative--it sure helps if you've been playing the series for a few decades, although I feel like I already understand most of the new characters' main weapons) learn to recognize the most common strings and remember to punish the real unsafe stuff.
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Feb 21, 2024 09:25
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unattended spaghetti posted:Okay if I'm understanding you correctly, there's actually two ways to think of stepping. One, the way I have been doing it, to try to preemptive step on strings that look linear. Two, and this makes a lot of sense now that I'm thinking of it, take advantage of frame States to step at opportune times. Do I have that right? Because if so it is kinda blowing my mind rn. Something so simple should have been obvious but I guess I didn't think through the implications. Yes, the idea is that in situations where you are lightly minus, your fastest attack would lose to theirs, but stepping is an option to keep or take the momentum which blocking doesn't, or to create whiffs in situations where you can't backdash like when your back is to the wall. Sidesteps take 6 frames to start up so the rule of thumb is that at 0 to -4 you can usually sidestep attacks. This is a common situation after a blocked quick mids like df1 for many characters, on hit after most standing low pokes, or after moves that opponents use to frame trap. Sidewalking is useful at medium to far ranges when the actual startup of an approach move might be ambiguous compared to stepping during blockstun at close range, or if they've committed to a string that could actually realign with you even if you evaded the first hit
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Feb 21, 2024 10:47
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You should also pretty much always tap back to guard after a sidestep, or even halfway through. You can cancel a sidestep the same as any other movement, and you don't generally need the whole animation to evade most typical linear attacks. The first 10-12 frames are the ones that really count (including the startup), after that you might as well have committed to a walk. Because of the above, most homing moves don't actually stop sidesteps; homing moves exist to hit people that commit to a walk or step+button. If you properly stepguard you should block almost every homing move every time. (And stepguarding vs homing moves is a good place to start practicing the timing.)
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Feb 21, 2024 11:02
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I've ran some sets with a good Paul player (in 7, he just got 8) and... drat I've been playing this guy wrong, very very wrong. Why is the ham dude with ham bicep rip animation, doing ham wheelies and sporting the iconic ham punch... a poke based character? Is it me or the Tekken aesthetics kinda fail to deliver how the character's actually supposed to play? Anyway, great teaching, an unbreakable dam which would punish me for every wrong attempt at offense, very atypical situations compared to my normal orange matches where it's blow up or be blown up, we reached time out a couple of times. I got one launcher in 25 matches (and some more I didn't believe in), I was shown me how much it pays to play way back compared to my in-your-grill usual positioning. Char fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Feb 21, 2024 |
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Feb 21, 2024 12:44
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interrodactyl posted:Lili is a 50/50 robbery character with disgusting options from back turn stance. Combine that with her f4 for keep out, solid lows, and sidestep on your slight minus frames to make people respect her. Then if that works you get to be a poke character.  I've been trying to get into BT more for her canned mix. Maybe I'll spend some time forcing myself to use it literally as much as I can. It's funny looking at the apparent tekken ranked distribution:  been a long time since I've been in the lower half of one of these  but hey, it's all learningedit: I do think I'mma try a few more characters though now that I've got a little more of the (very, very) basics back. I generally prefer more offense oriented characters, so no harm seeing if someone else clicks a little bit better (also I have the bad brains and so now that Azucena isn't every other match like it was week 1 I can play her again lol) Weird Pumpkin fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Feb 21, 2024 |
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Feb 21, 2024 13:40
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Finally starting to understand Paul a bit deeper and I love how dumb he can be while also being really fundamental. Death fist rules, demoman rules, he's got a lot of great stuff. There's never an excuse for getting my rear end kicked, it's always something I did poorly. I've only been fighting ghosts so far, might try some ranked soon.
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Feb 21, 2024 14:05
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Jeremor posted:Finally starting to understand Paul a bit deeper and I love how dumb he can be while also being really fundamental. Death fist rules, demoman rules, he's got a lot of great stuff. There's never an excuse for getting my rear end kicked, it's always something I did poorly. I've only been fighting ghosts so far, might try some ranked soon. For me it's often too little b+1,2, df+1, and getting distances of his many pokes wrong. I've whiffed f+4 a lot of times while thinking it would hit.
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Feb 21, 2024 14:15
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Jeremor posted:Finally starting to understand Paul a bit deeper and I love how dumb he can be while also being really fundamental. Death fist rules, demoman rules, he's got a lot of great stuff. There's never an excuse for getting my rear end kicked, it's always something I did poorly. I've only been fighting ghosts so far, might try some ranked soon. Just play Ranked, it’s not stressful and Paul is a character that will just steamroll newbies who don’t know how to handle him yet.
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Feb 21, 2024 18:20
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unattended spaghetti posted:Okay if I'm understanding you correctly, there's actually two ways to think of stepping. One, the way I have been doing it, to try to preemptive step on strings that look linear. This is kind of an okay way to learn what's steppable or not but I really wouldn't do this in a live match because the penalty for getting it wrong is death. You should only step when you have a plan that involves immediately blocking and then punishing if you see they whiffed. Another good thing to do is look at when and how they respond to your string pressure, and if they're always responding with something linear then finish your string with a step and launch.
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Feb 21, 2024 21:50
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:This is kind of an okay way to learn what's steppable or not but I really wouldn't do this in a live match because the penalty for getting it wrong is death. You should only step when you have a plan that involves immediately blocking and then punishing if you see they whiffed. Another good thing to do is look at when and how they respond to your string pressure, and if they're always responding with something linear then finish your string with a step and launch. Fair point and will do. Thanks.
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Feb 21, 2024 21:59
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Lol, playing both ends of the spectrum. From this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/1arqd5r/an_early_look_at_the_tekken_8_metagame_based_on/ Nice Van My Man fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Feb 22, 2024 |
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Feb 22, 2024 02:31
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Nice Van My Man posted:Lol, playing both ends of the spectrum. I saw that the other day... I really don't think Feng can be that high, or Reina that low. Reina somewhat makes sense because people are picking up the game and trying to learn tekken with a mishima lol. Also I don't think Victor should be that high. I wonder how early that data is and what the source is. Also someone made an updated side step guide. This does not cover all the moves of a character, It just shows in general what direction is better against that match up. 
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Feb 22, 2024 02:40
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Seltzer posted:I saw that the other day... I really don't think Feng can be that high, or Reina that low. Reina somewhat makes sense because people are picking up the game and trying to learn tekken with a mishima lol. Also I don't think Victor should be that high. I wonder how early that data is and what the source is. Should I be sidestepping to my character's left/right or my opponents left/right?
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Feb 22, 2024 02:45
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DeadButDelicious posted:Should I be sidestepping to my character's left/right or my opponents left/right? Side step left, means stepping to your characters left. So if you're on 1p side, that would be towards the background.
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Feb 22, 2024 02:47
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Seltzer posted:I saw that the other day... I really don't think Feng can be that high, or Reina that low. Reina somewhat makes sense because people are picking up the game and trying to learn tekken with a mishima lol. Also I don't think Victor should be that high. I wonder how early that data is and what the source is. I think Victor makes sense, he's got literally broken throws right now and he's really beginner friendly with a lot of simple moves that should absolutely destroy new players. Phi plays him and showed off a very easy frame trap, and he's a pretty popular Tekken streamer so I can see a lot of people just taking that and abusing it. I think the Reina having lots of noob players thing makes sense. I expect Feng to be up there since he always is (Tekken 7 started showing win rate and his was always high, but I forget exactly what), and he probably benefits from the inverse of Reina in that most of the people playing him are probably doing it because they're already Feng mains. The extremes just being +/- 5% is a pretty tight distribution, although yeah I wouldn't take the chart too seriously.
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Feb 22, 2024 02:59
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Dude I'm so done with PC players, I can't play another 5 bar PC player on a lovely machine it's so absurd they show as wired 5 bars. I've had more trouble with PC 5 bar wired than console 5 bar wireless at this point. FFS, there needs to be a minimum performance level allowed to play online.
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Feb 22, 2024 03:58
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Seltzer posted:Dude I'm so done with PC players, I can't play another 5 bar PC player on a lovely machine it's so absurd they show as wired 5 bars. I've had more trouble with PC 5 bar wired than console 5 bar wireless at this point. FFS, there needs to be a minimum performance level allowed to play online. I need, as Jun, to learn my launchers, because I am respecting mashing idiots who never stop (They're all on Victor/Reina, but I'm willing to be a small sum they all used to be Hwoarang people) pushing loving buttons. Ever. Their response to ending a string? Do another. Being counter hit? Push a button. They're the SF4 Kens, and I need them to die. And of course, you can try & get the big obvious punishes, but they're just throwing out whatever single canned mixup they've learnt, and sooner or later you trade a Snake Edge, so you lose more than you gain.
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Feb 22, 2024 07:19
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Please note that that sidestep chart is a copy-paste of an old T7 chart that was already contentious even back then. It was based on a reddit post that indexed common directions but included a lot of notes and discussion of exceptions and possible alternatives (DJ right-duck, Nina and Steve backdashing much better, etc). The chart flattened all of that, and I doubt this new one did any real testing to account for changes with the new stuff. Azu seems straight up wrong, her big problems moves are step left, not right. Edit: Doesn't mean there isn't some use to it, some of the generalities are fine as a starting point. By all means step King to the right; going left vs him sucks, but also note that back then grapples didn't track like they do now. Autsj fucked around with this message at 11:56 on Feb 22, 2024 |
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Feb 22, 2024 11:38
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Seltzer posted:I saw that the other day... I really don't think Feng can be that high, or Reina that low. Reina somewhat makes sense because people are picking up the game and trying to learn tekken with a mishima lol. Also I don't think Victor should be that high. I wonder how early that data is and what the source is. idk what the data is based on but my guess is that victor and feng are that high because they are super good at crushing new players who don't understand how to play against their poo poo. inverse with reina, she's probably picked up by a lot of new players because she's cool, but she's not very new player friendly. Shockeh posted:Funny, I feel exactly the same about wireless PS5 players. you can go far with just using uf+1 / FC df+1 as your 10 frame punisher, it does absurd damage and wall carry for how easy and fast it is (though it's unsafe). if you want to go more advanced, ducking a jab and doing FC df+2 leads to a launcher on counterhit but that's tricky to confirm. another good option if people just keep coming at you is b+3, 2 launcher into b+4, 2, f+3, b+2, 1, GEN, 2. b+3 is a low crush and has a good hitbox for people who just charge into you. b+1 is also very, very good against people who mash buttons. it's incredibly good damage on counter hit and avoids a bunch of moves. 1, 2 into sidestep 4 is really good as a default 'i think i have an opening' and it leaves you at +6 on block, or into a heat activation if it hits. 1, 2, 2 leads to a canned mix-up between a grab, low, and mid but it can be easily ducked. db+1 is a 15 frame mid that leads to good damage and great wall carry. df+1 is a lot less damage but it's 13 frames IIRC, and is decent damage. one of the best ways to keep people off you is also to scare the poo poo out of them at mid-range by mixing up f+2, ff+1+2 (+6 on block), ff3, 4 (follow-up is +6 on block iirc, but can be interrupted) and ff+2 (good approach tool, they have to guess if you're going into the second hit, GEN stance into low or armour, etc.). though unless i'm 100% sure the f+2 is gonna connect i always buffer the 1+2 to make it safe, but that leads to much worse damage if it does hit. you can also crouch cancel the f+2 right in their face, and instantly do FC db+1+2, a grab that leads into a full combo. if they are good at breaking that you can mix in the df+2+3 grab, or just hit them with a plus move, or chip with df+3 that leaves you slightly + on hit. a lot of people instinctively duck once you've grabbed them a few times and that's when you let the launcher rock and send them into the stratosphere. jun feels strong but i think her strengths are less obvious than some other characters. and a lot of the above might be trash at higher levels of play but it works pretty well in purple rank.
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Feb 22, 2024 13:04
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