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Data Graham posted:Maybe. Still, it feels kind of out of step with the rest of the writing to just keep going back to that well over and over without developing it or anything. That's the point. Not everything has to be a fully implemented character arc to be a real (and cute) part of a singular personality.
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Feb 20, 2024 19:19
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Millie and Charlie would definitely get along immediately. Moxxie and Niffty would get along hilariously.
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Feb 20, 2024 21:45
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Millie is the blade or axe wielder, and Nifty loves to stab. They'd totally get along. Nifty would steal every blade they had.
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Feb 20, 2024 22:18
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Data Graham posted:I mean, so is The Good Place. It's not the premise itself that's novel, it's the execution. As any nerd who came of age reading Preacher I appreciate a sarcastic postmodern take on Christian eschatology as much as anyone, where the afterlife is run by morons and sadists and has all the same relatable problems and struggles and daily-life features as the real world. This one's particular angle is a stylish fresh flavor though, and as in any present-day standout work it's the characters and their foregrounded arcs that are doing the heavy lifting of making the premise and "lore" seem so compellingly well developed. This makes me miss Ugly Americans.
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Feb 21, 2024 00:11
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Hazo posted:This makes me miss Ugly Americans. I miss it as well. Loved that show. It deserved five seasons.
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Feb 21, 2024 00:29
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Hazo posted:This makes me miss Ugly Americans. gently caress even reading this just made me feel a deep existential sadness.
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Feb 21, 2024 01:16
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Too beautiful for this world
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Feb 21, 2024 04:39
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Was wondering if any hotel residents might have been IMP patrons, but then most of them I think have been dead long enough to not have any unfinished business left in the living world. Might be mentioned with a future patron, perhaps.
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Feb 21, 2024 05:42
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Was wondering if any hotel residents might have been IMP patrons, but then most of them I think have been dead long enough to not have any unfinished business left in the living world. Might be mentioned with a future patron, perhaps. Alastor owns Niffty and Husk so I doubt he'd allow them something as frivolous as wasting money on their services even if they had unfinished business. Angel Dust has been in Hell since the 1940s and under Valentino's ownership since at least the 70's so I doubt he's ever heard of them either. That leaves Charlie and Vaggie and neither seem inclined to ever have anything to do with them so I'm going to have to give an emphatic no. edit: Almost forgot Alastor who's been dead since the 1930s and seems to have zero interest in getting revenge on the hunter who shot him so I doubt he'd lower himself to paying imps for help.
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Feb 21, 2024 07:03
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That's more what I mean, most of IMP's clients thus far have been relatively new arrivals to Hell, settling still fresh grudges, and the business itself implicitly has only been around a relatively short time. While there's the possibility of generational grudges, most anyone that sinners would remember enough to want them dead is already long dead from old age if nothing else, and either in Hell themselves or in Heaven out of their reach. Even if Alastor and the others were interested, IMP wasn't around then. ed: Come to think of it though, it would be funny and not unlikely if Blitzo wasn't the first hellborn demon to acquire a portal device through dubious means and use it to take contracts carrying out revenge and retribution from beyond the grave... Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Feb 21, 2024 |
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Feb 21, 2024 07:22
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Like I said before, I would love to see Mrs. Mayberry in the hotel next season, even in a non-speaking role.
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Feb 21, 2024 07:44
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This is gonna sound weird but I feel like I'm rather privileged to be able to witness this explosion of mainstream TV/movies/etc that are this unapologetically gay. Like there was always "gay media" and works that could be read as a metaphor or allegory or analogy of the LGBT+ experience, and they existed along a millenia-long spectrum according to how "visible" they were trying to be about it or how niche the audience; we could be talking about The Aeneid or Holmes or Jeffrey or The Matrix. But until just this past decade it's only now become possible to be completely casual about it, making gay relationships not be a tokenized aside or a Very Special Episode kind of thing, but leading material no matter who's meant to be watching. A decade ago we could point to She-Ra or Korra and say "wow holy poo poo, this is actually super gay" and not mean it ironically. But just recently it seems like things have stepped up beyond that, and now it's just become another completely natural way to frame a story. Because once that seal is broken, where it's no longer a situation where a show might go "let's put in a gay-themed episode or character, you know, as a sop", and where it starts being treated as just another baseline default, you start being able to explore all the wild proliferations of stories that are fundamental to that experience, but dependent on the audience being part of that community in order for it to hit. I'm thinking of things like Walter and Simon's relationship in Human Resources, which goes into how two people who rarely see each other can have a wild time together on a weekend, but then decide to move in together and it turns out to be miserable because they don't actually like living with each other or even like each other beyond the faces they show during a tryst. Of course this isn't an exclusively "gay" kind of story but it sprouts from a whole gestalt of experiences rooted in non-traditional non-hetero non-marriage-based relationship dynamics, where there's a clandestine element and a level of play-acting and a certain expectation of no-strings-attached. And what you get is a new kind of storytelling, one that gets to break fresh ground and find new tales to tell that any open-minded audience can appreciate, rather than the same tired centuries-old tropes and archetypes. So with Hazbin and HB now we're getting these new stories that are gleefully bursting into this new territory, smashing through catacomb walls and finding gold. The vein Stolas' story is mining is the one where a rich former party boy feels the inevitable march of time and age and worries that his best days are behind him, which combined with his nerdy overthinking nature makes him wonder whether hedonism was all there ever was to him in the first place—and just as he's realizing that his most important accomplishments are still ahead (raising Olivia), he gets another chance to revisit his youthful wildness, to feel wanted again—but it's just out of reach because he's not sure whether he's even being taken seriously, or whether he's making a fool of himself by trying. And then with Ozzie and Fizzy it's a whole different dynamic where despite a facade of "it's just about the sex" which is held up to the semi-public as a weird kind of dignity-preserving shield in a world where the characters are basically hedonism embodied as part of their brand, we find that there's a foundation underneath all the posturing and kayfabe of two people who are so madly, die-for-each-other in love that they can't even find the language to express it, even in private, and they nearly jeopardize what they have going just because they can't be fully honest about what they mean to each other. Certainly there's nothing that's fundamentally "gay" or even fundamentally novel about these kinds of relationship dynamics in fiction, but being so overt and matter-of-fact about it is what's new and what I feel is a really great thing to get to witness as the art form matures. Brokeback Mountain is maybe the obvious point where the mainstream mood started to turn, but I remember back when the South Park movie was in theaters and in between the dildo sight gags the backwards-ballcap-wearing dudebros in front of me were turning to each other and muttering "Man, Satan deserves better than Saddam", I felt like I was on the cusp of something really interesting and unstoppable once it got moving. It's taken a bit of time since then to really start to catch fire but it's happening
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Feb 21, 2024 14:33
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I wouldn't quite call Stolas a party boy, he's a shut-in nerd in a loveless marriage that's finally hit its last straw, having spent years burying himself in books, telenovelas, stargazing and gardening, who woke up one day to find the little girl who made his life bearable is now a traumatised miserable teenager on the verge of adulthood and that he's head over heels, sometimes literally, for a burglar who tried to kill him and ended up loving his brains out. Stolas flipping between acting like a giddy lovestruck horny teenager and a grumpy old man is pretty fitting for a bird nerd who's finally actually living his life, and pretty much completely unprepared for it.
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Feb 21, 2024 14:47
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Blitzo also stole Verosika's credit card and used it for horse riding lessons
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Feb 21, 2024 14:54
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I wouldn't quite call Stolas a party boy, he's a shut-in nerd in a loveless marriage that's finally hit its last straw, having spent years burying himself in books, telenovelas, stargazing and gardening, who woke up one day to find the little girl who made his life bearable is now a traumatised miserable teenager on the verge of adulthood and that he's head over heels, sometimes literally, for a burglar who tried to kill him and ended up loving his brains out. Stolas flipping between acting like a giddy lovestruck horny teenager and a grumpy old man is pretty fitting for a bird nerd who's finally actually living his life, and pretty much completely unprepared for it. yeah. i always write off alot of stolas behavors as he is weird nerdy dude who has been trapped in a lovely situation and then in his darkest hour, his crush shows up and they gently caress and he feels alive. he is running on a new relationship high hard, its why everything is partly about sex. like he is clearly up his own rear end right now because he is running with the high as long as possible, but now your seeing the crash. Data Graham posted:This is gonna sound weird but I feel like I'm rather privileged to be able to witness this explosion of mainstream TV/movies/etc that are this unapologetically gay. Like there was always "gay media" and works that could be read as a metaphor or allegory or analogy of the LGBT+ experience, and they existed along a millenia-long spectrum according to how "visible" they were trying to be about it or how niche the audience; we could be talking about The Aeneid or Holmes or Jeffrey or The Matrix. But until just this past decade it's only now become possible to be completely casual about it, making gay relationships not be a tokenized aside or a Very Special Episode kind of thing, but leading material no matter who's meant to be watching. A decade ago we could point to She-Ra or Korra and say "wow holy poo poo, this is actually super gay" and not mean it ironically. But just recently it seems like things have stepped up beyond that, and now it's just become another completely natural way to frame a story. i am gonna be weird but i think alot of what helps LGBTQ media with a mainstream audiance is making it universal. alot of shows that do "we are gonna do a gay episode" spend half the time looking at the audiance and trying to explain every term and poo poo, and it feels like its talking down to people and doesnt make the story interesting. Hazbin and helluva boss work because while gay as gently caress. its also universal. I am not gay, but i loving relate to stolas, he desperatly loves someone who doesnt have the maturity to love him back and he is finally coming off his new relationship high to see that. thats universal.
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Feb 21, 2024 15:51
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It's the "smurfette" problem as I once described it Kind of a twist on the Bechdel Test. If you make an all-female cast (or a majority-queer cast in this case) you get to tell a whole different set of stories because now you don't have just a "the girl" character or "the gay" character, you have all kinds of different ones and you get to treat all their stories as unique in all the ways mainstream white/cis/straight society's stories are used to being treated as unique. And true that Stolas' story isn't intrinsically gay or anything, there's still plenty of ambiguity about it but you're right, what we've gotten doesn't pigeonhole him (as it were). But even at that it's a textured character portrait that you rarely got to see in fiction without all these possibilities floating around the fringes as potential influences on his character as we get it. Maybe it's the way I like to read him and those haunting song lyrics that has me so jammed up. e^3 Ok yeah I'm convinced, Stolas doesn't strike me as experienced enough to really know what he missed out on in his youth, he just knows he missed out on something. He married young and for duty and now he realizes there's a whole side of him and a whole set of cravings and yearnings he never got to exercise, so he jumps at the first gesture that may allow him to do so when Blitzo shows up. If Blitzo had been a woman it would have been a simple "midlife crisis/infidelity" story, and would be hard to treat it as sympathetic. But the gay element gives it a kind of cover, because it's all tied up with him denying a major part of his identity for most of his life. e: And if this all sounds self-indulgent paying this much attention to cartoons and such, my whole gist is that fiction is how we talk to each other as a culture, and stuff like cartoons (the raunchy fringe ones at first, then the prime-time ones, then the ones for tweens, etc) is what tells society what it's cool to talk about and to be and to do. Once you've got the kind of representation that is not just "hey there was a character who looked like me on TV" and is more "wow I just saw my relationship with my ex captured in a super relatable way in this show", it helps people process things on a much more productive level than they might have had the tools to do on their own. and then people become more empathetic with each other's problems and what's important to various different people in our lives, and we all move forward to new levels of intelligence about each other. As go cartoons so goes society lol Data Graham fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Feb 21, 2024 |
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Feb 21, 2024 15:59
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"So what's this I hear about a hotel?" "I'm livin' in a hotel." "Uh-huh. Which one?" "Oh it's, uh, in Pentagram City, you haven't heard of it." "Try me." "Hazbin Hotel." "Happy Hotel?" "Hazbin! Hazbin Hotel!" "Hazbin Hotel! A hotel...for has-beens." *George raises his hand* "You're a has-been!" "I'm a has-been!" "A loser!" "I'M A LOSER, BABY!" *Kramer kramers in and points at George* "Hotel?" "He's living in the Hazbin Hotel." "Oh yeah, wild place. My buddy Angel went there." "Angel? The power bottom?" "A power bottom at rock bottom?" *Jerry nods at George* "A loser!" "Just like me!" *slap bass*
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Feb 21, 2024 16:30
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SkeletonHero posted:"So what's this I hear about a hotel?" 
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Feb 21, 2024 16:43
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Charlie would never be able to redeem George
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Feb 21, 2024 16:58
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Nodosaur posted:Charlie would never be able to redeem George she kicks him out screaming in rage in like a day and half.
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Feb 21, 2024 17:03
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I can't believe George did that
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Feb 21, 2024 18:27
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Annointed posted:I can't believe George did that george keeps trying to hit on charlie in weird and pathetic ways. the another guest arrives and the real drama starts https://twitter.com/SMcducc/status/1760168718762463238
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Feb 21, 2024 18:54
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Dapper_Swindler posted:george keeps trying to hit on charlie in weird and pathetic ways. What’s that guy from?
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Feb 21, 2024 18:59
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Smiling Friends! Which is fantastic.
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Feb 21, 2024 19:01
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I keep expecting to see the cannibal family from Helluva Boss in its first episode pop up at some point, if not in the background. They are prime candidates for Cannibal Town. You know the wife would totally be doing what she was doing in life. Her husband definitely knew what was going on with her, even if he looked like a clueless Ronald Regan woodsman mf’er. Stolas is totally a gay man faced with expectations of royal family and had to wed someone not of his choosing. It’s hard to say if things between the two were bad at the start, but being who they are, it couldn’t work. Currently Stella is the worse of the worse and she might very well be, but as we’ve seen with others, not everything is cut and dry. A lot of the issues between characters is all too human in the end. That of people being hurt and lashing out. The lashing out gets worse if the only support encourages their more destructive tendencies. Stella's situation definitely has that terrible support, or she might be one of the rare truly horrible beings in the two shows. Look at Blitzo and Verosika. She legit cared about him. A lot. It’s what fuels her animosity towards him now due to him being so self-destructive. He doesn’t believe he should have happiness. He wants it. But if he see’s someone do something that hints as them being embarrassed by him or not really caring about him, he reacts badly. See Stolas and him being at Ozzie’s club, the seventh episode of season one. Stolas put up the menu to hide once he got spotted by Ozzie and Fizz and Blitzo took that to mean he was embarrassed being seen with a lowly imp reinforcing his belief Stolas only wanted him for the sex. This causes Blitzo to spiral downward, tell Stolas that's all it is and both are left hurt. It's why Blitzo is always is around Moxxie and Millie the way he is. He wants what they have. Love. True love. He wants that more than anything but he believes he’s going to die alone. It played into episode 8 when he went to pick up Loona from the party. The infamous delayed eighth episode of the season featuring KESHA! For those who haven’t watched season 1 episodes 7 and 8 back-to-back really need to do so. It tells a much greater story with a ton more impact. Not bad for the so called sillier side story to Hazbin Hotel huh.
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Feb 21, 2024 19:38
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Speaking of, I hope they can get Kesha back one day because Bee was fun (and a surprisingly decent person/host seeing as she represents Gluttony)
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Feb 21, 2024 19:42
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Larryb posted:What’s that guy from? Smiling Friends! You should watch it! It stars and is created by both "guy screaming in the crowd" and Mammon from the Mammon episode
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Feb 21, 2024 19:44
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Larryb posted:Speaking of, I hope they can get Kesha back one day because Bee was fun (and a surprisingly decent person/host seeing as she represents Gluttony) Me too! With her legal troubles out of the way which caused the episode to be delayed she's able to come back and even sing! If it's doable budget wise. No, it wasn't her singing in the episode, not that many couldn't tell it was someone else. Her design is outstanding. Everyone expected a big ladd arse man as gluttony, a certain sin of Greed is likely what they believe she would be. Some people were mad it wasn't since it went against expectations. They didn't understand how she was gluttony. Nor did they pick up on the fact she fed off the positive emotions of those embracing their more gluttonous excesses from food, drink, sex or what have you at the party.
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Feb 21, 2024 19:57
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Yeah, Bee’s singing voice was provided by Rochelle Diamante (who wasn’t bad by any stretch but I’d still like it if Kesha got to do a song herself next time) I like how she focused more on the positive aspects of Gluttony by being the ultimate party host who encouraged excess but wasn’t a jerk about it (in fact she’s probably one of my favorite Sins that have been introduced so far). They even included a bit of the insect influence from her classic depiction by having her become significantly more bug like when she gets mad Larryb fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Feb 21, 2024 |
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Feb 21, 2024 20:00
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The Last Call posted:It's why Blitzo is always is around Moxxie and Millie the way he is. He wants what they have. Love. True love. He wants that more than anything but he believes he’s going to die alone. It played into episode 8 when he went to pick up Loona from the party. The infamous delayed eighth episode of the season featuring KESHA! For those who haven’t watched season 1 episodes 7 and 8 back-to-back really need to do so. It tells a much greater story with a ton more impact. Yeah I gotta fix that episode ordering in my rewatch. I mentioned this before but there's a common thread/thru-line between both shows of "chaperoning someone who's gone past their limits in a no-holds-barred environment"; we see it with Angel turning to babysit Niffty in Hazbin, and in Queen Bee there's the whole "yo come get your dad" scene which they lean on with so much weight it's clear they're really trying to push it home that this is one of the main tenets of responsible adulthood. Both Angel and Loona have to learn how to be that adult figure when it's called for. Loona also had to talk Olivia down in that other episode. She's got quite an arc going on
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Feb 21, 2024 20:05
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Stolas and Lucifer need to meet up so they can be sad gay dads together
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Feb 21, 2024 20:06
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Lucifer is said to be straight. He does switch with Lilith though. The details we know thanks to the word of God is some times strange and amusing.
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Feb 21, 2024 20:20
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Macaluso posted:Smiling Friends! You should watch it! It stars and is created by both "guy screaming in the crowd" and Mammon from the Mammon episode Nikumatic posted:Smiling Friends! Which is fantastic. the best/worst part is i can hear it. zach has a voice like that.
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Feb 21, 2024 21:23
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Data Graham posted:Yeah I gotta fix that episode ordering in my rewatch. I mentioned this before but there's a common thread/thru-line between both shows of "chaperoning someone who's gone past their limits in a no-holds-barred environment"; we see it with Angel turning to babysit Niffty in Hazbin, and in Queen Bee there's the whole "yo come get your dad" scene which they lean on with so much weight it's clear they're really trying to push it home that this is one of the main tenets of responsible adulthood. Both Angel and Loona have to learn how to be that adult figure when it's called for. yeah there is a thing i like where in a lesser show, i could see angel/blitz/etc being used as either super uncritical "do everything for your pleasure and never stop no matter what" OR more likely some weird sex negative poo poo. and i feel like both shows do pretty line of "yeah do what you want but your clearly not doing it with a healthy state of mind and you should probably cut it out before poo poo gets worse". like angel self destructiveness isnt that he fucks a ton. its because he is doing it in a very clearly self destructive way. same with blitz.
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Feb 21, 2024 21:29
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at the same time, I like that Charlie is probably pretty unintentionally (as in by herself) closed minded about some things. Like, she thinks you need not to have sex before marriage to get into heaven and tried to make a porno more wholesome. She can also be kinda judgey in some regards. I think it shows she has some growing to do herself.
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Feb 21, 2024 21:47
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The Last Call posted:I keep expecting to see the cannibal family from Helluva Boss in its first episode pop up at some point, if not in the background. They are prime candidates for Cannibal Town. You know the wife would totally be doing what she was doing in life. Her husband definitely knew what was going on with her, even if he looked like a clueless Ronald Regan woodsman mf’er. I can't see Rosie putting up with people in her town causing a scandal. Cannibal Town looks to be one of the more heavily HOA'ed neighborhoods.
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Feb 21, 2024 21:58
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Madurai posted:I can't see Rosie putting up with people in her town causing a scandal. Cannibal Town looks to be one of the more heavily HOA'ed neighborhoods. Rosie totally makes sure things run smoothly. But who is to say they would try to cause trouble, or any more trouble the average cannibal? If anything they would fit right in and enjoy the classic life style. Look at the other cannibals, chances are most of them were very similar to the family in life. Its' why they're cannibals. The hell version of sinners is a reflection of who they were, they get no choice in this. It's likely one reason Rosie and co get along so well with one another, for the first time they can be what and who they are without reprecussions. We've seen them eating people on the street in the very first episode. They get a pefect little quaint ol town and all the finger sandwiches they want! Those who are truly poblematic likely don't last long or at least are kept out of the way of everyone else.
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Feb 21, 2024 22:15
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Nodosaur posted:at the same time, I like that Charlie is probably pretty unintentionally (as in by herself) closed minded about some things. Like, she thinks you need not to have sex before marriage to get into heaven and tried to make a porno more wholesome. She can also be kinda judgey in some regards. I think it shows she has some growing to do herself. someone put it here and on a video where charlie is basically running an AA group and has never drank in her life and then doesnt understand. She is a sheltered as gently caress and while her care is genuin, she comes off as someone being mocked in a dead kennedys song. its why i like her character. her flaws work really well. To me she comes off less as judgy and more extreamly sheltered, all her ideas of heaven probably come from ramblings of sinners and her dad and she probably found like a chick track somehow and assumed that was it.
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Feb 21, 2024 22:16
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Nodosaur posted:at the same time, I like that Charlie is probably pretty unintentionally (as in by herself) closed minded about some things. Like, she thinks you need not to have sex before marriage to get into heaven and tried to make a porno more wholesome. She can also be kinda judgey in some regards. I think it shows she has some growing to do herself. Honestly I see that as her delulu belief this is what *heaven* specifically wants and she's trying to abide by their arbitrary rules as she understands them. Which is obviously not very well. I mean her and Vaggie aren't married and it's flat out stated they're doing the do together.
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Feb 21, 2024 22:24
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Are they? I thought only Adam assumed they were. I can see them sleeping in the same bed but not going that far just yet.
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Feb 21, 2024 22:28
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