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CainFortea posted:Yea, but you can't unread it the first time. The first read through it's very common for people to have an early negative opinion of her in the books. She's overbearing, hypocritical, and just flat wrong very frequently about big things. But there's usually are a redemption right? Fromt the second book on Nynaeve closed the cirlc eon being scared, or arrogant, and then did something badass. In the latest season her arc ended with crying and failing. bio347 posted:A thing to consider is that there's somewhat decent odds that you first read the first books in the series a looooooong time ago. Even without the benefit of reread-sight, Nynaeve is gonna read a lot differently to a literal child than to someone more adult-aged. I mean maybe but I can only talk about my viewpoint as it exists right now.
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Feb 20, 2024 02:12
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Shageletic posted:But there's usually are a redemption right? Fromt the second book on Nynaeve closed the cirlc eon being scared, or arrogant, and then did something badass. In the latest season her arc ended with crying and failing.
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Feb 20, 2024 09:19
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Just anecdotally, but I just finished reading the series for the first time (I watched the show in between reading The Dragon Reborn and The Shadow Rising) and did not like Nynaeve in the books until later on (probably when she agreed to cleanse the taint). Then she was one of my favorites. I like her a little more in the show right now than I did in the books at this point. So how exactly does balefire work, anyway? When it mentions that they are burned out of the pattern so can't be resurrected, is that only in this "loop" of the wheel? Or are they just gone forever? As in, next time the end of the 2nd age won't have Samael, etc. in it to support the dark and it could turn out slightly differently because of it? If that is the case it seems like eventually there would be no one left, given how freely people are using it. Also, it would be interesting if the show really was supposed to the next loop of the wheel and we didn't see anyone who was burned out. Also it seems like prophecy may just be echoes of a past loop. I was really satisfied with the ending and the last four books as a whole. I didn't like the (lack of a) resolution to the Seanchan though. Maybe it is better this way, but I didn't like that the place that makes pets out of people was just allowed to continue existing for at least another century (though likely the most realistic plot out of them all). Honestly the same situation for the Perrin was my favorite character from the start but then he became blah for awhile before doing cool stuff in Sanderson's books again. I don't hate Faile or anything, but his character tended to take nosedives around her. I didn't get the love for Mat until around book 4 or 5, when he quickly grew on me. The way he kept Mr. Bean-ing himself into being a hero was great. Egwayne was great pretty much start to finish, I thought, as was Rand. There were a couple Rand droughts in the series. It was pretty cool the first time (The Dragon Reborn) because it was unique to see him and his actions only from outside perspectives, but I didn't care for it after that since his plots were often the coolest. The show seemed to use the Ishamael/Moridin personality from the very end instead of having him grow/change. Was Rand using balefire to kill him? Ishamael seemed like he was getting his desire of true death (though it may just be in comparison to the non-death for the last three thousand years). I gotta say, the endings of the books almost always were phenomenal. Great writing/setup.
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Feb 20, 2024 15:15
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mastajake posted:Just anecdotally, but I just finished reading the series for the first time (I watched the show in between reading The Dragon Reborn and The Shadow Rising) and did not like Nynaeve in the books until later on (probably when she agreed to cleanse the taint). Then she was one of my favorites. I like her a little more in the show right now than I did in the books at this point. Balefire doesn't permanently destroy souls, it just makes it impossible for the dark one to grab them and put em in a new body. That's something he has to do right at the time of death, but since balefire does the time rewind poo poo, he never gets a chance to. The Seanchan ending is really frustrating, RJ had planned a new series specifically tackling them featuring Mat, but, well, illness happened. I don't think Sanderson wanted to change something that RJ had planned so significantly for the finale even if obviously that second series was never going to happen.
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Feb 20, 2024 15:32
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Balefire does not kill people forever, what it does is kill people back in time far enough that The Dark One cannot "grab" their soul to shove it into another body. People that are balefired can and will come back through natural reincarnation. Basically The Dark One cannot go back in time to catch the burned out thread that is the person killed, so when it continues on they stay dead.
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Feb 20, 2024 15:33
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Right. The Pattern isn't a metaphor, it's literally true. Balefire burns the life threads it touches backwards, but does not delete the whole thread forever.
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Feb 20, 2024 15:39
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Shageletic posted:But there's usually are a redemption right? Fromt the second book on Nynaeve closed the cirlc eon being scared, or arrogant, and then did something badass. In the latest season her arc ended with crying and failing. Her arc didn't end. There are 6 more seasons planned.
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Feb 20, 2024 16:07
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mastajake posted:Just anecdotally, but I just finished reading the series for the first time (I watched the show in between reading The Dragon Reborn and The Shadow Rising) and did not like Nynaeve in the books until later on (probably when she agreed to cleanse the taint). Then she was one of my favorites. I like her a little more in the show right now than I did in the books at this point. The major theme of the books are that there are no beginnings or endings to the Wheel of Time, so while it is absolutely frustrating that we don't get resolution to the Seanchan it's entirely within the theme of things continuing on
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Feb 20, 2024 18:05
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Are there any more age turnings after the events of WOT or are they locked into their age going forward?
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Feb 20, 2024 18:44
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Lack of episodes is a problem but a bigger problem seems to have been the nature of shooting live action has a lot of secondary issues that require rewriting and rearranging. Sets are expensive; if you hire actors you have to use them and can't just have them gently caress off for seasons at a time then reappear; special effects cost money; actors sometimes quit, and covid happens, among other limitations. After all, they have a pretty sizeable budget for the show. And there are plenty of instances in TV of prominent actors appearing in a couple of seasons of a show then not showing up till later seasons (this poo poo is actually beneficial for your budget, have your big name actor like Pike take a back seat as the seasons go on and the cost of getting her back each season goes up and up). In terms of location costs, season 1 GoT had the same or at least a similar number of major locations as are required to adapt Eye of the World (Castle Black & the Wall/Winterfell/King's Landing/various Dragos locations - vs. - Eamond's Field/Shadar Logoth/Caemlyn/Fal Dara). In terms of CGI/effects costs.. well, other shows have done shitloads of special effects, too. And sure, COVID was crap and no doubt very difficult to work around, but that wasn't the reason they decided to do a looser adaptation/their 'different turning of the wheel' approach. The Matt actor leaving was also poo poo but they could have dealt with it differently. Etc. None of that is to say that it's better or worse that they have done a looser adaptation. People have different opinions on that, and who's to say the show would have been any better if it was closer to the books; could well have been worse. But, I do think it was technically possible.
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Feb 20, 2024 18:46
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through the Lord Dragon, all things are indeed possible
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Feb 20, 2024 18:49
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Soul Glo posted:Are there any more age turnings after the events of WOT or are they locked into their age going forward? Iirc the 4th Age is referenced numerous times on the epitaphs
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Feb 20, 2024 18:56
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DarkHorse posted:The major theme of the books are that there are no beginnings or endings to the Wheel of Time, so while it is absolutely frustrating that we don't get resolution to the Seanchan it's entirely within the theme of things continuing on It's a definite downer ending on that front, but very fitting. While TDO's touch adds supernatural evil to the setting, people are perfectly capable of evil in a world without the Bore . And the Seanchan are evil in the most unpleasantly mundane real-world sense. The Fourth Age isn't happily ever after: it will still have petty politics, grand societal injustices, and awful people in the same way that our First Age does. But people will have the ability to fight against those, so the victory is still good. Not really unrelated, I'm fine with Nynaeve losing out hard in the Season 2 end. The show hasn't been shy about showing her strength of Power and of personal will, but highlighting her block as a really big problem leading her to some deep lows seems like a good way to get her arc across and sets up some good payoffs later.
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Feb 20, 2024 19:03
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It's called The Last Battle but it's not actually the last battle. It has happened before and will happen again. Herid Fel lays this all out in book 6.
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Feb 20, 2024 19:04
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buffalo all day posted:through the Lord Dragon, all things are indeed possible "So jot that down", spake Merrilin, who knew the correct reply El Grillo posted:Not sure I agree. . . . In theory maybe but not in practice. And the budget isn't actually that huge -- adjusting for inflation this is very much a *budget* game of thrones.
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Feb 20, 2024 19:14
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IIRC they also had to spend a bunch of the budget on just setting up a production company in Prague.
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Feb 20, 2024 19:19
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Hey look right now we just want you to laugh in a cage for a few minutes but in five years time your screentime is really gonna pick up
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Feb 20, 2024 19:21
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Plus there was a major theme of doing things a little better this time around.... and plenty of seeds that would likely lead to a better future for the Seanchan were planted. Including, you know, their literal God figure coming to talk to the Empress, presumably about their doings.
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Feb 20, 2024 19:40
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It shows up before the Bore is made too during what is probably the closest humanity comes to utopia. The viewpoint Aiel gets run over by a guy being a total arrogant jerk before he realizes he just slammed into one
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Feb 20, 2024 20:33
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DarkHorse posted:It shows up before the Bore is made too during what is probably the closest humanity comes to utopia. The viewpoint Aiel gets run over by a guy being a total arrogant jerk before he realizes he just slammed into one Is that really evil though? Semirhag was censured before the bore, and she was actually causing pain and enjoying it
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Feb 20, 2024 20:38
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CainFortea posted:Is that really evil though? Semirhag was censured before the bore, and she was actually causing pain and enjoying it Yeah that's a better example, my point was more that even in literal Paradise (Paaren Disen) people were still jerks
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Feb 20, 2024 20:51
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CainFortea posted:Is that really evil though? Semirhag was censured before the bore, and she was actually causing pain and enjoying it Was this before the bore or after? Because once the bore was made it was still around 100 years until the actual war of the power. She defected to the shadow after being told she could swear on the binder or be severed according to the wiki (which might not be correct because hey its a wiki) so her being caught for it was after the bore.
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Feb 20, 2024 21:13
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Flowing Thot posted:Was this before the bore or after? Because once the bore was made it was still around 100 years until the actual war of the power. She defected to the shadow after being told she could swear on the binder or be severed according to the wiki (which might not be correct because hey its a wiki) so her being caught for it was after the bore. There's not really anything definitive, but there's also nothing to suggest that she became a masochist after the bore was opened.
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Feb 20, 2024 21:42
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:In theory maybe but not in practice. And the budget isn't actually that huge -- adjusting for inflation this is very much a *budget* game of thrones.
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Feb 20, 2024 22:43
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El Grillo posted:Interesting - I thought GoT season 1 was about $60m for the season which would be $6m per episode. With inflation since 2010 I would think that's about $10m today per episode today? Same as WoT. I could be getting the inflation adjust wrong though. There was an article I read about this. The main things are 1) GoT benefitted hugely from being able to loot all of HBO's abandoned sets from Rome and other previous high budget productions, sonitnhad a functional budget far in excess of its actual budget, and 2) the inflation hasn't just been monetary. Modern audiences expect late season budget GoT from a prestige production not early season. So if you compare against other current prestige shows WoT is at the middle of the pack not the top. If you compare to Rings of Power, WoT is operating off the troll hoard in comparison to RoP's smauglike riches.
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Feb 20, 2024 22:53
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Yeah GoT S1 looks super low budget compared to modern fantasy shows. Remember the time Tyrion got knocked out just so they could avoid doing an on-screen battle?
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Feb 20, 2024 23:31
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That was a stroke of luck for them, because it was way more effective in grounding a bunch of different narratives and motivations. That sequence plus the Stark focused scene right after is a demonstration of tighter plotting than basically anything in the final 2-3 seasons. But yeah for any current fantasy series the bar has been raised very high and so the budgets are going to need to be higher by necessity just to grab the attention of audiences. For that reason alone I suspect a lot of the other adaptations that were in development recently, like The Black Company, are never going to make it past the pilot stage if they even get that far.
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Feb 20, 2024 23:45
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i do enjoy how that lady from Rome, Atia? looks basically the same in WOT
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Feb 21, 2024 00:28
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:There was an article I read about this. The main things are Though nothing will ever compare with Rings of Power (I hope). Rarity posted:Yeah GoT S1 looks super low budget compared to modern fantasy shows. Remember the time Tyrion got knocked out just so they could avoid doing an on-screen battle? At least in EotW, the only 'battle' sequences I think are that one before they get to Shadar Logoth, where the trollocs are trying to hook the books off their horses with nooses and stuff, and the Tarwin's Gap appearance by Rand. The former is small-scale. The latter is a Problem as far as production and VFX budget goes. You do need seriously clever/competent people behind the production to use a budget efficiently and to achieve great VFX blending. Regardless of budget.
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Feb 21, 2024 10:36
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:i do enjoy how that lady from Rome, Atia? looks basically the same in WOT For a second I thought I had missed Polly Walker (Atia) in Wheel of Time (she would be amazing at some point), but I think you mean Lindsay Duncan, the actress who played Servilia on Rome, who played Anvaere Damodred on WOT. Seriously, though, cast Polly Walker in Wheel of Time. I don't know as who, a Forsaken? An Aes Sedai? Someone who people are scared of, she'd kill in a role like that.
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Feb 21, 2024 17:33
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Blah you're right - Servilia. Atia was her mortal enemy, right?
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Feb 21, 2024 17:37
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Blah you're right - Servilia. Atia was her mortal enemy, right? Correct. Servilla was mother to Brutus, Atia was mother to Octavius/Augustus. Both fantastic actors/characters. Gods, Rome was good.
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Feb 21, 2024 17:41
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Holy crap , Polly Walker as Graendal would be perfect.
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Feb 21, 2024 18:08
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thrawn527 posted:Correct. Servilla was mother to Brutus, Atia was mother to Octavius/Augustus. Now I'm sad Ray Stevenson died because on reflection, he'd be an incredible Demandred
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Feb 21, 2024 18:26
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Now I'm sad Ray Stevenson died because on reflection, he'd be an incredible Demandred Well drat it, didn’t even know. And yea, he had that presence I could see for Demandred.
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Feb 21, 2024 20:39
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Watch Rome again to honor him He also did a b-movie called Outpost that I'm pretty fond of
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Feb 21, 2024 21:22
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So did humanity just lose the knowledge of how things like electricity, etc. work since it wasn't required in the Age of Legends, or did the Breaking somehow make it all not work anymore, or what?
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Feb 22, 2024 00:26
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mastajake posted:So did humanity just lose the knowledge of how things like electricity, etc. work since it wasn't required in the Age of Legends, or did the Breaking somehow make it all not work anymore, or what? It would seem to be lost knowledge since someone rediscovers it in the books. He's at Rand's school in Cairhien.
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Feb 22, 2024 00:28
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Oh cool, thanks. I guess I already need to reread to get more clarification on stuff.
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Feb 22, 2024 00:48
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mastajake posted:So did humanity just lose the knowledge of how things like electricity, etc. work since it wasn't required in the Age of Legends, or did the Breaking somehow make it all not work anymore, or what? One of the stories Thom tells is of "the giants Mosk and Merk fighting with spears of fire that reached around the world", which is pretty likely to be an allusion to a thermonuclear war.
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Feb 22, 2024 00:52
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