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It's all completely ridiculous but I feel like the practical effect is not as bad as Dobbs because presumably people who have the money for IVF can afford to travel to a less insane state to do it, or am I missing something? Again, not defending the ruling in any way, I just have a hard time believing that nationwide embryo personhood is going to be a thing. Of course I'll probably look back on this post in 2034 as I read the headline "9-0 conservative SCOTUS supermajority declares embryos are people"
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Feb 21, 2024 23:29
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L. Ron DeSantis posted:It's all completely ridiculous but I feel like the practical effect is not as bad as Dobbs because presumably people who have the money for IVF can afford to travel to a less insane state to do it, or am I missing something? Again, not defending the ruling in any way, I just have a hard time believing that nationwide embryo personhood is going to be a thing. Of course I'll probably look back on this post in 2034 as I read the headline "9-0 conservative SCOTUS supermajority declares embryos are people" i dont think it will either but i feel like alot of GOP ghouls are gonna be screaming about how great and how it should be national and etc and etc and thats gonna be put on anti GOP ads.
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Feb 21, 2024 23:31
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L. Ron DeSantis posted:It's all completely ridiculous but I feel like the practical effect is not as bad as Dobbs because presumably people who have the money for IVF can afford to travel to a less insane state to do it, or am I missing something? Again, not defending the ruling in any way, I just have a hard time believing that nationwide embryo personhood is going to be a thing. Of course I'll probably look back on this post in 2034 as I read the headline "9-0 conservative SCOTUS supermajority declares embryos are people" It is a little more complicated than this because IVF is not simply a one off procedure you show up for and are done. There are a number of steps and the logistics of it become a lot more complicated if a critical part like storage of embryos and thawing and implanting them has to happen in some other state. Not insurmountable but probably would add at minimum a ton of cost passed onto the patient for what is already a mostly cash on the barrelhead type of medicine. I really wonder about people doing this type of fertility medicine who are in training or early in their careers. Training happens at places like UAB. UAB is the name brand academic medical center in the state of Alabama. Who would want to train in a red state in this environment where your actual training program could get blown up right in the middle of your training?
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Feb 21, 2024 23:34
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L. Ron DeSantis posted:It's all completely ridiculous but I feel like the practical effect is not as bad as Dobbs because presumably people who have the money for IVF can afford to travel to a less insane state to do it, or am I missing something? Again, not defending the ruling in any way, I just have a hard time believing that nationwide embryo personhood is going to be a thing. Of course I'll probably look back on this post in 2034 as I read the headline "9-0 conservative SCOTUS supermajority declares embryos are people" I know a couple who could only do IVF by getting a lot of donations from friends and family, on top of the father juggling 3 jobs. If they had to get even more money to go to a different state to do it, they might not have been able to. People dealing with fertility problems have enough emotional and financial issues to deal with as is, it's severely gross of Alabama to toss this on that pile.
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Feb 21, 2024 23:36
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Orthanc6 posted:I know a couple who could only do IVF by getting a lot of donations from friends and family, on top of the father juggling 3 jobs. If they had to get even more money to go to a different state to do it, they might not have been able to. People dealing with fertility problems have enough emotional and financial issues to deal with as is, it's severely gross of Alabama to toss this on that pile. IVF is a stressful and expensive process and I like interrupting that is going to make a lot of enemies for life for the GOP.
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Feb 21, 2024 23:40
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L. Ron DeSantis posted:It's all completely ridiculous but I feel like the practical effect is not as bad as Dobbs because presumably people who have the money for IVF can afford to travel to a less insane state to do it, or am I missing something? A medical procedure being expensive doesn't mean only rich people do it, it just means people who don't have a ton of money have an even harder time getting the money together to do it. People without boatloads of money still want kids too, and it's way cheaper and easier to get the time and money together to do IVF in state rather than adding travel, lodging, and time off work for each appointment to the equation.
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Feb 21, 2024 23:41
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Yeah all that is fair enough, I didn't want to be insensitive just not all that familiar with the logistics of how IVF works. I made a dumb post. Sounds like it is going to be a burden for a lot of people, good job at being "pro-life" Alabama  . Any chance the legislature will see the bad press and rewrite the relevant law to address this. Embryonic personhood is a minority position even within the anti abortion movement, is it not?
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Feb 21, 2024 23:44
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L. Ron DeSantis posted:It's all completely ridiculous but I feel like the practical effect is not as bad as Dobbs because presumably people who have the money for IVF can afford to travel to a less insane state to do it, or am I missing something? Again, not defending the ruling in any way, I just have a hard time believing that nationwide embryo personhood is going to be a thing. Of course I'll probably look back on this post in 2034 as I read the headline "9-0 conservative SCOTUS supermajority declares embryos are people" Ranking tragedies is rarely productive. I would agree it’s fair to say that foisting a child on a person who doesn’t want one and exposing them to potential death in childbirth is worse than infertility but, again, see my first sentence. Edit: and it isn’t only rich people doing IVF. A lot of people go into debt to try it, sometimes multiple times.
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Feb 21, 2024 23:46
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A lot of people (not as many as should, but still) can also get insurance to cover it, which may be a lot harder if it now carries a risk of being charged with murder
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Feb 21, 2024 23:50
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I don't think no matter how well paid, any CEO is going to want to face the dozens of manslaughter chargers next time there's a power failure and the backup generator/fridge/temperature monitor fails. IVF will be gone from that state shortly.
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Feb 21, 2024 23:53
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Comstar posted:I don't think no matter how well paid, any CEO is going to want to face the dozens of manslaughter chargers next time there's a power failure and the backup generator/fridge/temperature monitor fails. This. And I can't wait for lawmakers to blame IVF clinics for leaving Alabama because it's impossible for them to have 100% infallible procedures and infrastructure.
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Feb 21, 2024 23:56
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Is there an estimate of how many IVF procedures are done a year
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Feb 21, 2024 23:58
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Is there an estimate of how many IVF procedures are done a year quote:In 2021, assisted reproductive technology, which includes I.V.F, accounted for 91,906 births in the United States, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In Alabama, 1,219 procedures using assisted reproductive technology were performed in 2021, according to the C.D.C. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/21/us/university-alabama-birmingham-ivf-embryo-ruling.html
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Feb 22, 2024 00:09
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L. Ron DeSantis posted:Yeah all that is fair enough, I didn't want to be insensitive just not all that familiar with the logistics of how IVF works. I made a dumb post. Sounds like it is going to be a burden for a lot of people, good job at being "pro-life" Alabama Not limited to IVF, but in general it's easy for people to categorize any expensive item or service as "for rich people." Sometimes it's absolutely accurate, like a private jet or whatever, but for every expensive item from a vacation house to a fancy car to a beat up old fishing boat to a dog the important thing is that rich people can have them casually. Below that is a whole spectrum of incomes that can have them if they care enough to sacrifice other things, before you get to the people that really can't have it and still keep themselves above water. All sorts of working class to outright poor people have some nice things (for various values of "nice") but only if they care enough about them to give up other things. Kids in general are one of the best examples since they're very expensive to have in both money and time, yet even people with limited amounts of either really want them and will restructure their life to have them. IVF is an extension of that.
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Feb 22, 2024 00:10
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Tatsuta Age posted:Counterpoint: nothing changed after Sandy Hook, or the dozens of other child slaughters that have happened since. America doesn't give a poo poo about children, adults, anyone except Business as Usual and Capital The issue is not "America". It's conservatives, and who actually holds office and has legal power. Action on these issues is not futile- and the very argument that it is somehow baked into our natures is the primary tool of the people trying to prevent gun control.
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Feb 22, 2024 00:14
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Discendo Vox posted:The issue is not "America". It's conservatives, and who actually holds office and has legal power. Action on these issues is not futile- and the very argument that it is somehow baked into our natures is the primary tool of the people trying to prevent gun control. Oh OK, so as long as half this country exists, we can't do anything about it, but that's not "America"
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Feb 22, 2024 00:25
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USCE 2024: Soon, Illegal to Jerk Off in Alabama
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Feb 22, 2024 00:31
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zoux posted:I think that if COVID had killed children at the same rate as it did old people, instead of not at all, we would've seen a massively different response here and world wide. The fact that most of the deaths were elderly - many elderly and invisible - people cared less. Fully a quarter of the Texas nursing home population died of COVID, that's an unimaginable holocaust if not for the fact that we put people in those places so we don't have to think about them while they are dying. Sandy Hook and elementary school children led to absolutely nothing being done on the guns front other than a really good/infuriating Onion article being written. The country has already proven that the lives of children are not worth more than any others rights, real or percieved. I think that it would have taken a major celebrity dying to get people to take COVID seriously. I remember that Tom Hanks got COVID early on and had Hanks or a person of his stature passed away it would have raised a lot of eyebrows and potentially gotten people who weren't inclinded to take COVID seriously to do so. But it's also possible that the anti-intellectual side had it's roots too far into the right for any deaths, in either stature or amount, to bring them to reason.
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Feb 22, 2024 00:31
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IT BURNS posted:USCE 2024: Soon, Illegal to Jerk Off in Alabama OK, sure
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Feb 22, 2024 00:37
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Tatsuta Age posted:Oh OK, so as long as half this country exists, we can't do anything about it, but that's not "America" No, half the country does not have to stop existing. The normal process of politics and representation needs to be brought to bear on the general consensus among the population that gun control is necessary. You do not need to catastrophize this or present it as futile.
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Feb 22, 2024 00:39
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Is there an estimate of how many IVF procedures are done a year https://www.cdc.gov/art/nass/policy.html quote:The Fertility Clinic Success Rate and Certification Act (FCSRCA) of 1992 mandates that clinics performing ART annually provide data for all procedures performed to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and sets forth definitions and reporting requirements, specifically sections 2(a), 2(b), 2(c), 6 and 8. CDC is required to use these data to report and publish clinic-specific success rates and certification of embryo laboratories. The details on who and how needs to report in order to be compliant with the law are described in Federal Register Notices published following the FCSRCA enactment. Interestingly, federal law actually requires fertility practices to document their IVF procedures and success rate in some kind of national database. I do not know why this is or how it originated, maybe fertility medicine was known to be rife with shady undertrained grifters? So this is one of the few areas where you could expect to have somewhat accurate numbers. Not sure why this is not the case for other completely elective medical services like obesity surgery or plastic surgery.
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Feb 22, 2024 00:51
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Zwabu posted:https://www.cdc.gov/art/nass/policy.html Yes. In Australia they keep track of it but wouldn’t revel the success rates but sone places take your money and get orders of magnitude less success. AFAIK it’s still secret and dodgy places are still getting money.
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Feb 22, 2024 00:55
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socialsecurity posted:IVF is a stressful and expensive process and I like interrupting that is going to make a lot of enemies for life for the GOP. I disagree. If someone is a Trump supporter in Jan 2024 there is nothing, nothing the GOP could do to make that person abandon the Party.
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Feb 22, 2024 00:58
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Discendo Vox posted:No, half the country does not have to stop existing. The normal process of politics and representation needs to be brought to bear on the general consensus among the population that gun control is necessary. You do not need to catastrophize this or present it as futile. Hardcore anti-gun-control people definitely represent less than half the country but as long as half the country will vote for politicians who espouse that view no matter what, it is not unreasonable to present progress as futile.
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Feb 22, 2024 01:01
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L. Ron DeSantis posted:Hardcore anti-gun-control people definitely represent less than half the country but as long as half the country will vote for politicians who espouse that view no matter what, it is not unreasonable to present progress as futile. The entire loving point is that political outcomes can change policy, that voting practices and espoused views are subject to change. Demanding that we accept your "no matter what" is just making GBS threads on the possibility of political change or discussion of the specifics of how it occurs.
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Feb 22, 2024 01:10
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Discendo Vox posted:No, half the country does not have to stop existing. The normal process of politics and representation needs to be brought to bear on the general consensus among the population that gun control is necessary. You do not need to catastrophize this or present it as futile. Gun control happened once in America and it was working until America decided it didn't like it
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Feb 22, 2024 01:24
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It's pretty obvious that IVF is a treatment where women are totally, unequivocally, 200% in control of their own bodies which isn't the kinda baby makin' conservatives tolerate.
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Feb 22, 2024 01:26
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IT BURNS posted:USCE 2024: Soon, Illegal to Jerk Off in Alabama Laws that impact men? Lol funny joke
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Feb 22, 2024 01:27
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C. Everett Koop posted:I think that it would have taken a major celebrity dying to get people to take COVID seriously. I remember that Tom Hanks got COVID early on and had Hanks or a person of his stature passed away it would have raised a lot of eyebrows and potentially gotten people who weren't inclinded to take COVID seriously to do so. But it's also possible that the anti-intellectual side had it's roots too far into the right for any deaths, in either stature or amount, to bring them to reason. I'm inclined to agree with you here. In Japan, funnyman Ken Shimura, beloved across generations and indirectly responsible for America's Funniest Home Videos, came down with severe pneumonia on March 20th of 2020 (right around the time Japan blocked all non-citizens from newly entering), was confirmed to have gotten COVID on the 23rd, and was dead on the 29th. Though schools had already gone into a 1-month cancellation at the end of February out of precaution, his death spelled out to people here that yes, poo poo Was Very Real and This Could Kill You, and though there was never any formal lockdown in Japan (because it was disallowed by the Constitution), got people to take masking and social distancing very seriously at least for the first couple of waves.
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Feb 22, 2024 01:34
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https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1760135496338911294 The GOP is reduced to begging for money on Twitter Love to see it
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Feb 22, 2024 01:38
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Fart Amplifier posted:Gun control happened once in America and it was working until America decided it didn't like it TBH, it stopped working because no one cared about the outcome in neighboring countries like Mexico. God bless the USA 
Kalit fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Feb 22, 2024 |
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Feb 22, 2024 01:39
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Much similarly to every other campaign of all affiliations.
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Feb 22, 2024 01:39
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Trazz posted:https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1760135496338911294 Wonder if they would raise more money if they said "donate to help Donald Trump pay off all of his fines"
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Feb 22, 2024 01:40
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Wow, one person taking all the money and leaving nothing for the rest. Who could have foreseen this being bad in history.
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Feb 22, 2024 01:50
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"We getting outraised!" They cry So i put a donation in the box They take it out of the election fund and hand it to trump's court debts "Won't someone help us, the Democrats are getting more money" they continue
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Feb 22, 2024 01:58
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Trazz posted:https://twitter.com/GOP/status/1760135496338911294 While the GOP do objectively seem to be in financial dire straits, isn't this par for the course for both parties?
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Feb 22, 2024 02:03
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I think this is the least amount of money they've had since 1993.
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Feb 22, 2024 02:05
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It's heartening to see that even in Elon Musk's 𝕏 hellscape an 𝕩 like that still gets ratioed 13-to-1.
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Feb 22, 2024 02:09
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Main Paineframe posted:When he arrived in Arizona, he stabbed someone there too, so they're presumably going to charge him with that. Oh, I completely misread that part of the article. I thought that was talking about murder in New York.
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Feb 22, 2024 02:18
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Scags McDouglas posted:It's pretty obvious that IVF is a treatment where women are totally, unequivocally, 200% in control of their own bodies which isn't the kinda baby makin' conservatives tolerate. The ghouls need pregnancy and childbirth to be easy, beautiful, painless processes so that they can feel good about their weird birth fetish. Therefore, any woman who doesn't want to be pregnant or give birth (or whose pregnancy/birth process goes wrong) is unnatural, and they don't have to feel bad about how messy reality really is.
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Feb 22, 2024 02:25
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