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Millennia got a release date, March 26. The more I played the demo the more I loved it, but I also admit it had issues. Hopefully they use the two months between the demo and release to fix any rough edges. It'll be a day one purchase for me either way, but it feels practically like a game designed for me.
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Feb 22, 2024 18:22
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| # ? Jun 5, 2024 08:31 |
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Yeah, can't wait to smash my head against it and not understand a thing for the first three games before optimizing Poem production chains for increased Research.
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Feb 23, 2024 00:05
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I have questions about Millennia: What victory conditions are there apart from conquest? The steam page says there's a victory age...but then only talks about conquest. quote:Achieve your ultimate success through a Victory Age. Toward the end of the game (or earlier if your strategy is sound), dominance allows a nation to dictate the winning conditions. The rest of the world must decide if they will struggle to achieve victory before the leader ... or oppose the leader's attempt. Risk everything to take victory in the Renaissance or carefully plan for triumph in the modern era. Is there still a demo? I don't see it anywhere on Steam? Do the ages just punish you for being bad and make you feel bad for being a bad player? The last Civ game I played with them seemed to do that all the time. Do the ages apply to everyone at the same time or just you? Is there religion units? The last Civ game I played always ended up as a religion game of moving 1-2 types of units around and winning which I did not like much.
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Feb 23, 2024 00:12
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Comstar posted:I have questions about Millennia: 1. Right now only the devs know victory conditions, the demo didn't go that far. 2. The demo was available for a limited time and is gone now. I think. 3. No, the ages don't work like in Civ6 rise and fall. In the demo, whoever reached an age first locked it in for all other players. 4. Every player needs to research the next age after researching a minimum number of techs from the last age. The ages apply to everyone in the sense that once a player has locked in a special or normal age, that's the only one that anyone can pick. 5. Presumably yes, but the demo didn't go that far. So the specific religious units and their mechanics are a mystery to everyone except the devs.
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Feb 23, 2024 00:39
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Ages are basically the tech leader getting to dictate the rules for every other player. (Or being forced to stall out and let other players catch up to their tech lead, if they're locked into a crisis age that they really don't want).
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Feb 23, 2024 00:44
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Lowen posted:1. Right now only the devs know victory conditions, the demo didn't go that far. There is some discussion of religion mechanic in the last Q&A: quote:Could you tell us more about how religion will work and spread?
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Feb 23, 2024 00:54
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They just released a dev diary for this: https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1268590/view/4186729092738597235. To summarize - you win by triggering a Victory Age which determines the conditions for winning in that age. Note - I'm pretty sure ANYONE can win if they satisfy the conditions, so if you're science lead, don't try and trigger a Victory Age early unless you're running away with the game. These are... - Conquest: (Early Game) Exactly what it sounds like. Trigger an endgame war early if you're obviously crushing everything and everyone. If it doesn't work, you probably get dogpiled by the rest of of the world trying to stop your victory. Seems like the only one of these that explicitly punishes you for failing the attempt because it's really early compared to the rest. - Harmony - (Mid Game) Religious victory if you convert the majority of the world's population. Unlike Conquest, if you don't manage to trigger the victory condition, there's still a benefit to triggering the Harmony Age as it weakens Secularism, delaying the natural offramp away from Religion. - Generals - (Mid/Late Game) Like Conquest, but apparently splits the map into factions in a sort of ersatz World War scenario. Grants military/industrial themed bonuses for later if you can't clinch the win. - Archangel - (End Game) People break out giant orbital lasers that can shoot at cities... but the actual victory condition is based on highest relative population. - Transcendence - (End Game) The victory age built around having been a min-maxxer who spent way too much time crunching numbers on satisfying city needs/making people happy. - Departure (End Game) - Build a space ship and get out. Weirdly enough the game emphasizes this as an economy/industrial victory rather than a science victory, which instead goes to... - Singularity (End Game) - The description involves a lot of talk about Knowledge points, but then phrases the actual win condition as "survive the super-AI that you built." So the main idea seems to be that if you plan on winning via all-out aggression, try to win early, as the longer you give everybody else time to sit, the more likely it is that they'll trigger some weird victory condition where victory via conquest is still technically possible but much harder. Jossar fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Feb 23, 2024 |
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Feb 23, 2024 01:02
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Holy poo poo, look at those variant ages. That's a real cool twist to a historical 4x, straight up weird poo poo like alchemy or steampunk becoming "real." I'm legit excited for this game, I'm loathe to jinx it but it's the first time I'm convinced someone actually has something cooking to compete with Civ, and funnily enough it's because it takes some elements from the Call to Power series. toasterwarrior fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Feb 23, 2024 |
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Feb 23, 2024 01:27
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The one thing that makes me a bit nervous is that it feels like the tech leader has a bit too much control over the pace/tone of the game. But the counterpoint I saw is that, at least for some Ages, if you're running too far ahead of everyone else you'll faceplant directly into a forced-Crisis Age which will naturally hit you the hardest. So your best bet at that point is to try and slow down to diversify into other areas and let somebody else take the lead on determining the next Age instead. Plus of course, going pure science to win the tech race might leave you without any underlying economy to take advantage of it once you get there! - (EDIT: Was beaten to this by Jabor, but still think it's worth ruminating on.) Jossar fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Feb 23, 2024 |
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Feb 23, 2024 01:32
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I definitely don't like that it's controlled by the tech leader. The AI doesn't seem to give a poo poo about variant ages and is perfectly happy to only do three techs per age, so you lose out if you try to backfill techs. (Made a little worse by that some techs seem mandatory , like Discipline.)The two attempts I made to trigger age of blood or heroes in the demo didn't work. TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Feb 23, 2024 |
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Feb 23, 2024 01:40
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I imagine you could trigger age of blood by finding the tech leader and force-feeding them six of your own units, yeah?
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Feb 23, 2024 01:42
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Comstar posted:Do the ages just punish you for being bad and make you feel bad for being a bad player? The last Civ game I played with them seemed to do that all the time. On paper, the ages are balanced because they're the same for everyone, but doing the things to trigger them seems to set you up well for the variant age, so if you can steer the world into one it will usually go well. To give an example, the variant age in the demo was the age of heroes, which was triggered by exploring three landmarks with scouts. When it started, it spawned quests over the map - in effect, it spawned a new round of goodie huts like the tribal villages everyone already cleared out, but that could only be activated by hero units. And scouts with a certain level of xp (which they got from finding landmarks) could upgrade into heroes (everyone also got a free one). So everyone could participate in the age of heroes the same way, but if you were the one who triggered it, you were probably best situated to take advantage. The other alternate age in the demo was the age of blood, which was triggered by killing at least six units from other civilizations. During the age of blood all nations were locked into wars with each other and there was no war weariness, so again, if you're the one that triggers it (by being a warmonger) you're probably going to handle it better than average. It might be strictly speaking harder than the basic age, but since the changes apply equally to everyone it doesn't really matter. They're not like golden ages and dark ages in Civ. Bremen fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Feb 23, 2024 |
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Feb 23, 2024 05:00
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It's just neat that the ages define the techs available to everyone in each game. So it's not as static as, well, any other Civ-like I know of. I do hope that tech grows a bit slower in the full game.
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Feb 23, 2024 08:57
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Bremen posted:On paper, the ages are balanced because they're the same for everyone, but doing the things to trigger them seems to set you up well for the variant age, so if you can steer the world into one it will usually go well. You son of a bitch I'm in. I just hope I'm not disappointed as I was with Stellaris once I got past the first contact phase of the game. Or the last Civ game (which was the first one I never completed a victory win for because the game became a carpet of units to fight through).
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Feb 23, 2024 09:54
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I'm a little bit disappointed that Millennia is leaning into fantasy elements as that's just not my thing. Everything else seems too similar to Civ to be of much interest (little tweaks like the way borders expand are welcome but not that exciting), except the way resources work which I'm very intrigued by. The idea of processing resources into other resources for more benefit is excellent. I suppose the Civ mega-mod Vox Populi kinda already did this, with buildings enhancing resource yields (e.g. the market gives +2 gold on sugar). But Millennia's take on it is far more interesting because they actually become new resources with new uses, and the chains are longer (e.g. Flax > paper > books which can be used to boost tech accumulation). I've been looking forward to something like this from Civ for a long time. I look forward to seeing how that works in practice and how it compares to Ara's resource crafting system which also seems to be pretty intricate.
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Feb 23, 2024 10:38
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THE BAR posted:It's just neat that the ages define the techs available to everyone in each game. So it's not as static as, well, any other Civ-like I know of. From the Q&A; age advancement will get more demanding from the mid game on: quote:With 8 techs per age from age 7 onward, will there be more than 3 techs required to advance to the next age in the later ages?
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Feb 23, 2024 10:39
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I just went back to The Old World and oh my god whose idiot idea was to put automate worker and automate road behind 39 steps in the random tech tree. Does Millennial do the same loving thing?
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Feb 23, 2024 11:42
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Millenia doesn't have workers. You plop down tile improvements from a resource pool.
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Feb 23, 2024 11:44
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Millenia doesn't have workers. You plop down tile improvements from a resource pool. Sold. How do you put them into the resource pool though? Another thing I forgot about The Old World: I need to use my king and religious leader to influence someone every other turn. No the game won't automate it. No the game won't give much of a clue on WHO to motivate of the 40+ people in court beyond whose unhappy. No the game won't list everyone in order of unhappiness.
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Feb 23, 2024 11:59
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Yeah Millenia went to Public Works from Call to Power II. Honestly, what i'd like is Colonization II at some point, or someone's attempt to do Col 2.
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Feb 23, 2024 12:01
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Comstar posted:I just went back to The Old World and oh my god whose idiot idea was to put automate worker and automate road behind 39 steps in the random tech tree. I never used automated workers on Oldworld, seems a bad idea considering you build almost everything with workers, so that would be basically automating the city design Anyway I kinda liked what they did with buildings and workers on Oldworld, but it comes with some problems too: - excessive micromanagement of workers mid to late game (and automating is not a solution, imo, for the reason above) - you never have a list of every building you have in a city, which starts to get hard to keep track when they get big I really curious to see how Millenia handles it, workers Are always a chore in civ-type games
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Feb 23, 2024 12:04
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Comstar posted:Sold. How do you put them into the resource pool though? There's basically two different production-related resources. One of them is for how fast the city builds buildings and units, the other is how much it contributes to the global pool that you use for building tile improvements. A lot of production-related things give you both, a few give you just one or the other. (At least as far as I remember from the demo). Mostly the amount you get just scales up as you scale up your city production.
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Feb 23, 2024 12:12
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Comstar posted:Sold. How do you put them into the resource pool though? You get public works points every turn boosted by various things (government policies etc) and can also convert Production into public works points. Because the pool is global you can therefore use production from one established city to help get improvements set up in a new city. I've never played call to power (I know, shame on me) so I don't know how it compares.
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Feb 23, 2024 12:13
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You don't have workers at all. You accumulate points in a construction pool, that can be spent on tile improvements by just clicking the tile in question and picking a thing. The closest to a worker, in the demo at least, are these outpost guys you can send out and deploy, that put up an area of control, where you can spend construction points on tiles with resources on them and funnel them back to your cities. This is very expensive in points, but you don't have to use a citizen working it, like you would in a proper city.
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Feb 23, 2024 12:13
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THE BAR posted:You don't have workers at all. You accumulate points in a construction pool, that can be spent on tile improvements by just clicking the tile in question and picking a thing. Oh is that what outposts are for? I never figured that out lol
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Feb 23, 2024 12:14
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Jabor posted:Oh is that what outposts are for? I never figured that out lol That and the road they put up between the nearest two places of civilisation, yours or someone else's.
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Feb 23, 2024 12:15
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THE BAR posted:You don't have workers at all. You accumulate points in a construction pool, that can be spent on tile improvements by just clicking the tile in question and picking a thing. This is fantastic and what I've always wanted in a civ game. CIv 6 went the opposite way and required constant action and attention from the player. I'd like to see a civ game that goes all-in with automation or adds some great QOL stuff like the above. It feels absolutely dumb to control workers manually like I'm their direct boss.
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Feb 23, 2024 13:23
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I dont care much about automation in this kinda of stuff in these games because 1- the AI will be bad at choosing stuff to build and where 2- managing and building my cities is my favorite part of any 4X That said, theres absolutely no reason we need workers as a unit you have to move around the map to build stuff. Eliminating that, I totally happy with improving my tiles and choosing what to build myself
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Feb 23, 2024 13:31
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A worker/builder is just a middleman for turning production into improvements. At least with a worker you get unlimited improvements out of them; builders are very much limited. The only reasons to have a middleman like that is (a) turning production in one city into improvements in another (b) workers can be captured so a form of slavery is simulated, and it forces the player to have a standing army to deal with barbarians (however I think pillaging is a good enough threat to encourage that)
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Feb 23, 2024 13:41
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I didn’t have time to check out the millennia demo, but I’m glad to hear that they are doing away with workers. I have hated on-map civilian units in all Civs, be they workers, executives, spies, prophets,…
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Feb 23, 2024 13:50
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I regret to inform you that Millennia will have diplomatic units.
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Feb 23, 2024 14:18
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Microplastics posted:I regret to inform you that Millennia will have diplomatic units. Noooooooooooooooo 
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Feb 23, 2024 14:21
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Microplastics posted:I regret to inform you that Millennia will have diplomatic units. Yikes I hope they dont have religious units doing combat like civ 6 though, I hated that poo poo Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Feb 23, 2024 |
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Feb 23, 2024 14:22
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Removed from wishlist
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Feb 23, 2024 14:22
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I actually like the diplomatic units in the Civ V megamod Vox Populi 😬
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Feb 23, 2024 14:34
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Elias_Maluco posted:Yikes The demo didn't get to the religious ages, which is.. very odd to say, considering we got to the Iron Age, I think?
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Feb 23, 2024 14:49
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Religions shows up the age afterwards, I think. Guess they thought it was just a little bit too much game for the demo.
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Feb 23, 2024 15:00
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My overall impression of Millennia was it's a game with a lot of cool ideas, but the demo was maybe somewhat lacking in polish. And the turn limit means we didn't get a close look at things like balance or if the AI was braindead (well, it did attack me a few times in the 60 turn demo, so it's not completely passive, but no idea how well it competes with a player). So I don't want to oversell it or anything. But if it does flop I hope other Civ style games steal some of its ideas, because they're really cool.
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Feb 23, 2024 15:17
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Personally I’m definitely waiting for some reviews and maybe a few patches
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Feb 23, 2024 15:23
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Did they do away with the Horse Node, the most brain-dead concept in 4x games? And the animal husbandry tech which does the opposite of what animal Husbandry is? I have a lit of beef with Civilization, somewhat fewer with Humankind, but one of the biggest ones is The Horse Node.
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Feb 23, 2024 15:24
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