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Clip-On Fedora posted:lol one of the cold blood snakes who oversaw arms deals for the US government resigned at the beginning of this because he saw what was coming and didn’t want it on his conscience. nah conscience didnt play into it just a potential headache
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Feb 23, 2024 00:18
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There’s an unfortunate logic in if China is willing to weaken itself to stop a tragedy then the US is willing to create unlimited tragedies.
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Feb 23, 2024 00:18
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Clip-On Fedora posted:lol one of the cold blood snakes who oversaw arms deals for the US government resigned at the beginning of this because he saw what was coming and didn’t want it on his conscience. *on his resumé
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Feb 23, 2024 00:19
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:If it's any consolation, I think that a lot of states recognize that, they're just trying to figure out a way to do that without a global conflagration. Guatemala alone was 200,000, according to that little map at the back of The Jakarta Method. The US' evil is such that it makes what would be the moral choice in these situations immoral, because you have to take into account how the US will respond. Karach has issued a correction as of 00:22 on Feb 23, 2024 |
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Feb 23, 2024 00:20
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of course China still is
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Feb 23, 2024 00:23
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The US is declining. Every day that passes more and more of the US's capabilities become lostech. Meanwhile China is rising. Every single day that China delays a war with the US is to China's advantage. The US is spread thin now and is doing objectively evil things but risking the entire world on a confrontation right now would be foolish. A lot of things can happen in the future, maybe the US will collapse, maybe more of the US nukes will silently decay, maybe the only thing that will happen is that the US continues to decline. BearsBearsBears has issued a correction as of 00:26 on Feb 23, 2024 |
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Feb 23, 2024 00:23
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There's a good book on how the US talked about a shadowy international communist movement during the Cold War, which didn't exist, but reflected their very real conspiracy of reactionary paramilitaries worldwide. Revolutionaries for the Right: Anticommunist Internationalism and Paramilitary Warfare in the Cold War Freedom fighters. Guerrilla warriors. Soldiers of fortune. The many civil wars and rebellions against communist governments drew heavily from this cast of characters. Yet from Nicaragua to Afghanistan, Vietnam to Angola, Cuba to the Congo, the connections between these anticommunist groups have remained hazy and their coordination obscure. Yet as Kyle Burke reveals, these conflicts were the product of a rising movement that sought paramilitary action against communism worldwide. Tacking between the United States and many other countries, Burke offers an international history not only of the paramilitaries who started and waged small wars in the second half of the twentieth century but of conservatism in the Cold War era. From the start of the Cold War, Burke shows, leading U.S. conservatives and their allies abroad dreamed of an international anticommunist revolution. They pinned their hopes to armed men, freedom fighters who could unravel communist states from within. And so they fashioned a global network of activists and state officials, guerrillas and mercenaries, ex-spies and ex-soldiers to sponsor paramilitary campaigns in Asia, Africa, and Latin America. Blurring the line between state-sanctioned and vigilante violence, this armed crusade helped radicalize right-wing groups in the United States while also generating new forms of privatized warfare abroad.
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Feb 23, 2024 00:30
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Diet Crack posted:Plus it would be hypocritical to criticise one genocide while you fundamentally carry your own out... Gottem
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Feb 23, 2024 00:31
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dti
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Feb 23, 2024 00:35
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:It would be bad for the world if China, who can see the US already flailing around as things go badly in Ukraine, Prosperity Guardian and Gaza, takes a position that will send the already-in-a-blind-panic US government, led by a senile president, into an unpredictable course of action. DJJIB-DJDCT posted:China and Israel also historically have a sort of deal where Israel sells China technology from US military aid and allegedly even entire weapons systems, which I believe was arranged by the US during the Sino-Soviet Split. It also ("allegedly") happens behind the US' back, and Israel gives away stuff the US doesn't want them to. It's mentioned in one of those books Chinese military modernization. Both of these are astute observations. Additionally: - Since Mao's death, China has very much been against wading into active conflicts. Not to say that they won't make questionable/potentially destablizing deals (e.g. DF-3A sales to Saudi Arabia), but they won't touch an on-going war. - China has never had disputes with Israel or Judaism (and what people in the West would consider to be antisemitic stereotypes, many Chinese people consider to be admirable traits worthy of imitation), while China has had issues with Islamic extremism. This limits popular support for intervention. China will do what it can as long as there's not much of an opportunity cost (e.g. security council votes, strictly enforcing export controls for dual-use goods https://www.ynetnews.com/business/article/b1ze7rrda). But China unfortunately will not stick its neck out for Palestinians, as it does not see doing so as benefiting its national interest. yeah this VVVVVVVV Flournival Dixon posted:china's not operating from a position of self-sacrificing christian morality or whatever, it's a marxist-leninist state doing the things that make the most sense to improve conditions for the working class and building a future for the people of china Boat Stuck has issued a correction as of 00:44 on Feb 23, 2024 |
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Feb 23, 2024 00:40
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China is doing things. It might not be what we like in a heroic fashion, but the USA just sent three carriers to their vicinity as a pretty explicit “show of strength”. China is supporting AnsarAllah into blockading the Red Sea, while also interdicting trade against Israel under cover of bureaucratic quagmire; apparently Hamas has received Chinese munitions as well (though I can’t confirm that). Every escalating step, regardless of what is our opinion and sentiment about it, has to be in consideration with their responsibility to their own people. It’s similar to hezbollah’s situation: they have a responsibility to the people of Lebanon in how they proceed to act, because their mandate and legitimacy doesn’t contemplate bringing the entirety of Lebanon into an offensive all out war. This is not meant to be disparaging to the sentiment because I do feel similar to it. The question is about having the clear sight to take decisions that will be, you know, effective into actually doing things. It’s a goddamned poo poo sandwich situation, but intervening without a really loving good plan, really loving good means to execute it and a full popular mandate to do so can make a situation much more worse, especially for the Palestinians. (and for real, it pisses me off that the world is like that)
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Feb 23, 2024 00:41
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china's not operating from a position of self-sacrificing christian morality or whatever, it's a marxist-leninist state doing the things that make the most sense to improve conditions for the working class and building a future for the people of china they're not going to war for anything other than direct chinese interests, and they've got things working pretty well so that they probably won't ever have to go to actual war it seems like
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Feb 23, 2024 00:41
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:The USSR faced the same dilemma in 1967 and 1973, where they had troops mobilized and air and sealift prepared to intercede on behalf of Syria but concluded (correctly IMO) that the US would start a nuclear exchange if the Soviets directly repulsed the Israelis from the Golan Heights or even rearmed the Arabs at the same rate the US was rebuilding the Israeli military. Yeah, once again we cannot depend on China to save us. It should be the labor movements in the respective countries that are paralyzing their nations' abilities to assist Israel, but we aren't seeing that either.
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Feb 23, 2024 00:42
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Diet Crack posted:Plus it would be hypocritical to criticise one genocide while you fundamentally carry your own out... 
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Feb 23, 2024 00:42
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I said come in! posted:I hate so much that this is the world we live in. It's so important that the U.S. is evil as gently caress and needs to be brought down. It's funny how in the early 20th c. Tsarist Russia played the same role the US does. Funny in a "makes me want to vomit" way, but alas...
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Feb 23, 2024 00:44
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dead gay comedy forums posted:; apparently Hamas has received Chinese munitions as well (though I can’t confirm that) Interesting, hadn't heard about that. Any links?
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Feb 23, 2024 00:44
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PhilippAchtel posted:Yeah, once again we cannot depend on China to save us. It should be the labor movements in the respective countries that are paralyzing their nations' abilities to assist Israel, but we aren't seeing that either. were seeing it but to a very limited degree in certain countries
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Feb 23, 2024 00:45
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Flournival Dixon posted:china's not operating from a position of self-sacrificing christian morality or whatever Neither is any nominally Christian state though*. It would be nice, but it would be more fair to say that the contrast with marxist-leninist state doing the things that make the most sense to improve conditions for the working class and building a future for the people of china is amoral capitalism. *Some, like Spain, South Africa, the Holy See, obviously are doing more than others, but Israel bombed Bethlehem on Christmas and the Church of Saint Porphyrius while refugees were sheltering in it, and neither provoked a religiously motivated response. DJJIB-DJDCT has issued a correction as of 00:49 on Feb 23, 2024 |
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Feb 23, 2024 00:47
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the government hasnt declared an embargo but a Zionist minister in this Reuter article says trade has been de facto ended because the two major Chinese shipping firms refuse to go to Israel https://www.reuters.com/world/israels-ashdod-port-sees-strategic-risk-china-during-gaza-war-2024-01-26/ quote:"In practice it (China) is maintaining a trade boycott on Israel," Shaul Schneider, chairman of the board of directors of Ashdod Port, said in the Jan. 17 letter.
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Feb 23, 2024 00:47
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I said come in! posted:I hate so much that this is the world we live in. It's so important that the U.S. is evil as gently caress and needs to be brought down. IIRC I got at least one probation for saying this in the D&D China thread lmao
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Feb 23, 2024 00:48
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Karach posted:Interesting, hadn't heard about that. Any links? I vaguely remember seeing something about Hamas having a bunch of Chinese-made small arms which is probably because China is switching rifle platforms so there's a ton of the old stuff getting sold as surplus.
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Feb 23, 2024 00:49
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:Neither is any nominally Christian state though*. It would be nice, but it would be more fair to say that the contrast with marxist-leninist state doing the things that make the most sense to improve conditions for the working class and building a future for the people of china is amoral capitalism. I was just referencing christian morality as the type of place where I feel like moral ideas of martyrdom and self-sacrifice come from in the west moreso than any actual national actor, though I guess i didn't specify that going to war with israel would be pretty self-destructive and harmful toward the chinese state to make it more clear in the post.
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Feb 23, 2024 00:51
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HallelujahLee posted:were seeing it but to a very limited degree in certain countries I've been pushing my union to do as much as I can, and they've done some small gestures, but our national executive makes the same calculations as the Chinese government, and the groundswell of support just is not there. I see almost no posts about Palestine at all among my union contacts. It's depressing.
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Feb 23, 2024 00:54
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Raskolnikov38 posted:the government hasnt declared an embargo but a Zionist minister in this Reuter article says trade has been de facto ended because the two major Chinese shipping firms refuse to go to Israel Isn't that because of the Ansarallah interdiction? 
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Feb 23, 2024 00:54
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Oh gotcha gotcha. There's been a bit of debate about the particularism of martyrdom recently, and it seems possible that once again we have Enlightenment aristocrats who over identified with the Roman aristocracy to thank for the belief that it was unique and frightening in the Roman world. Which makes sense, because the blood of martyrs can only be the seed of the church if the (still pagan) people witnessing the martyrdom responded to it. Public displays of belief, you can also understand martyrdom as a political act, need to be understood to be persuasive. Korea was exposed to Christianity through a literary tradition, where Korean literati encountered Christian writings through the Jesuit mission to the Imperial Court in Peking, so that's fairly unique I suppose. Spontaneous conversion through reading a book is something we don't really see in the western tradition of Christianization narratives. I wonder, did Marxism initially spread in China through public acts of conviction by socialists or through Marxist literature?
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Feb 23, 2024 01:00
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PhilippAchtel posted:I've been pushing my union to do as much as I can, and they've done some small gestures, but our national executive makes the same calculations as the Chinese government, and the groundswell of support just is not there. yeah im not going to lie mine has been a bit disappointing as well, at least in my other circles its been alot more pronounced.
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Feb 23, 2024 01:02
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PhilippAchtel posted:I've been pushing my union to do as much as I can, and they've done some small gestures, but our national executive makes the same calculations as the Chinese government, and the groundswell of support just is not there. I don't feel like anyone in the west is really thinking about geopolitics or multipolarity or genocide or anything other than what's precisely in their daily life. Even among the people who would agree that Israel is a genocidal colonial apartheid state they would never think to connect union activity with american imperialism, politics is what happens when you post on twitter or instagram rather than anything to do with labor or material action in the world. I hate to just shamepost about the pathetic state of the western left as if I'm the fuckin vanguard of the revolution and not just some weird guy on the internet but it's hard to do otherwise sometimes. DJJIB-DJDCT posted:I wonder, did Marxism initially spread in China through public acts of conviction by socialists or through Marxist literature? I think it got brought in mostly by the KMT before the CPC ever existed and made a lot of progress because of how weak and anemic the qing dynasty was but I'm not super well versed in the specifics of the movement, obviously texts are always going to be more easily approached in history than actions and elevated in seeming importance regardless of their power compared to that of the actions of people who lived a hundred years ago. The early Chinese marxist quotes you always see really focus on how explanatory and useful the texts themselves are but who knows how much power they held in themselves.
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Feb 23, 2024 01:17
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china had a mega civil war cause a guy woke up and said he was jesus 2
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Feb 23, 2024 01:19
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Real hurthling! posted:china had a mega civil war cause a guy woke up and said he was jesus 2 The empire, long divided, must unite; long united, must divide.
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Feb 23, 2024 01:31
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Real hurthling! posted:china had a mega civil war cause a guy woke up and said he was jesus 2 This is the most rational response to failing your exams.
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Feb 23, 2024 01:33
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The lesson of the Soviet Union is that even if you build a socialist superpower today, it might be gone tomorrow, so you better act today. China needs to nuke Washington.
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Feb 23, 2024 01:36
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Horseshoe theory posted:Isn't that because of the Ansarallah interdiction? You can still sail around Africa. But China probably weighed continuing to ship to Israel vs continuing to be able to use the Suez Canal, and made the logical choice.
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Feb 23, 2024 01:48
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Mantis42 posted:The lesson of the Soviet Union is that even if you build a socialist superpower today, it might be gone tomorrow, so you better act today. China needs to nuke Washington. 
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Feb 23, 2024 01:49
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Uh, tell that to the Uyghurs. China is not the bastion of roundabout diplomacy you're claiming it to be. Inb4 "but the US said it wasn't!" Please follow your own post. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 23, 2024 01:53
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The Atomic Man-Boy posted:You can still sail around Africa. But China probably weighed continuing to ship to Israel vs continuing to be able to use the Suez Canal, and made the logical choice. it also makes egypt have to kiss up to them too since a much bigger share of the revenue the canal gets now is via china
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Feb 23, 2024 01:54
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Diet Crack posted:Uh, tell that to the Uyghurs. China is not the bastion of roundabout diplomacy you're claiming it to be. go gently caress yourself pig
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Feb 23, 2024 01:56
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the evidence of the wigger muslim genocide is kept in the same shoebox as all the hamas rapes, so you can't see it
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Feb 23, 2024 01:57
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Al! posted:wigger muslim genocide heh
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Feb 23, 2024 01:59
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Diet Crack posted:Uh, tell that to the Uyghurs. China is not the bastion of roundabout diplomacy you're claiming it to be. Is this the guy you're using as a source? https://www.amazon.com/Worthy-Escape-Believers-Raptured-Tribulation/dp/1449769063
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Feb 23, 2024 02:02
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Haven't really heard about the Uighurs in the news for a while. I asusme they got them all?
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Feb 23, 2024 02:06
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