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theultimo posted:Doubt with an NA, they price a premium on the popup lights It’s more expensive to paint popups?
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Feb 22, 2024 09:35
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A recently published study from Sweden's Chalmers Technical University with the catchy title "DOES ALL-WHEEL-DRIVE (AWD) ON PASSENGER CARS HAVE ANY SAFETY BENEFITS ON ROADS COVERED WITH ICE OR SNOW? ANALYSIS OF REAL-WORLD CRASHES INVOLVING AWD CARS WITH ESC (ELECTRONIC STABILITY CONTROL)" made the news recently. The answer is no, AWD is significantly more crashy than 2WD quote:The results for roads covered with ice or snow showed that injury crashes increased by 19-31% with AWD. Similar https://www-esv.nhtsa.dot.gov/Proceedings/25/25ESV-000260.pdf
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Feb 22, 2024 14:11
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As a 2WDer, driving on bad roads requires considerably more care and attention. Also, exactly as the study suggests, the vehicle translates more clearly the state of the road.
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Feb 22, 2024 14:22
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Invalido posted:A recently published study from Sweden's Chalmers Technical University with the catchy title "DOES ALL-WHEEL-DRIVE (AWD) ON PASSENGER CARS HAVE ANY SAFETY BENEFITS ON This is also in a country with actual driver training and testing, so I would assume it would be even worse in North America. Only makes you go, doesn't help you stop. Slightly related, watched an interesting video on the tube about skinny vs wide winter tires as I've been hearing forever how you always want to size down for winter. Turns out you can accelerate better with the skinny ones but you brake better with the wide ones, so just inflating the overconfidence gap driving in the snow. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf_mIlU82Ac
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Feb 22, 2024 14:27
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RWD is going to be the safest of all since you'll never get out of the driveway in the first place 
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Feb 22, 2024 14:42
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DoesNotCompute posted:This is also in a country with actual driver training and testing, so I would assume it would be even worse in North America. Only makes you go, doesn't help you stop. I thought that was obvious since the whole point of the skinny tire is to cut through the snow, and you trade that for less overall contact with the ground
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Feb 22, 2024 15:28
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The Door Frame posted:I thought that was obvious since the whole point of the skinny tire is to cut through the snow, and you trade that for less overall contact with the ground Every time I read about some study like the one above or tires I'm like "yes, well that's obvious how is that not common knowledge" but then I watch dashcam vids of people YOLO'ing it into a ditch in a snowstorm because 4WD so I guess it's not obvious to everyone.
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Feb 22, 2024 15:36
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WHAT IF I STOP TOO FAST AND THEN SOMEONE BEHIND ME REARENDS ME THEN WHAT? I DON'T NEED THEM SNOW TIRES COZ I JUST SLOW DOWN AND LEAVE EXTRA SPACE AND NOBODY WILL EVER CUT IN TO THAT SPOT IN FRONT OF ME COZ THEY KNOW THAT I'M TRYING TO BE SAFE AND NO KIDS, OR DOGS OR WHATEVER WILL RUN OUT IN FRONT OF ME FROM BETWEEN TWO PARKED CARS AND SUDDENLY IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT ALL THAT SLOWING DOWN AND EXTRA SPACE HAPPENED CAUSE I I DON'T NEED SNOW TIRES IN GOT FOREWEEL DRYVE!!! I don't need four wheel drive because I got snow tires.
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Feb 22, 2024 15:49
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Just-In-Timeberlake posted:Every time I read about some study like the one above or tires I'm like "yes, well that's obvious how is that not common knowledge" but then I watch dashcam vids of people YOLO'ing it into a ditch in a snowstorm because 4WD so I guess it's not obvious to everyone. You got me there. I just checked the resource that the average person buying snow tires would check and they don't really acknowledge stopping, so the average person making sure they're buying the right tire probably wouldn't give it a second thought https://www.tirerack.com/upgrade-garage/how-do-i-select-the-right-size-winter-snow-tires
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Feb 22, 2024 15:58
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The Door Frame posted:You got me there. I just checked the resource that the average person buying snow tires would check and they don't really acknowledge stopping, so the average person making sure they're buying the right tire probably wouldn't give it a second thought Kinda wild that the counterpart to getting the car in motion is making it stop and yet that half of the equation is not generally emphasized or even a concern for a lot of people.
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Feb 22, 2024 16:57
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wesleywillis posted:WHAT IF I STOP TOO FAST AND THEN SOMEONE BEHIND ME REARENDS ME THEN WHAT? Yeah, it is going to be really cool when we have these 3 ton lithium land mines careening around with chewed up tires.
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Feb 22, 2024 16:59
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C-Bangin' it 
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The Door Frame posted:I thought that was obvious since the whole point of the skinny tire is to cut through the snow, and you trade that for less overall contact with the ground Honestly it was sort of counterintuitive to me, like if you're accelerating more effectively then traction must be higher, and to decelerate in snow, traction is the limiting factor so higher = better. But then you get into weight transfer between axles during heavy breaking and the variables of compacting snow ahead of the tires and all sorts of math and it's interesting to see some real world test. Ideal is probably a slightly fatter tire up front and skinnier rear tires in a RWD biased AWD setup. Either way, hardly anyone can drive and it's insane how low the barrier for entry is to operate a 5,000lb lithium ion incendiary device at 100km/h on public roads.
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Feb 22, 2024 17:10
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4 x 0 = 0 Tires matter
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Feb 22, 2024 17:26
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wesleywillis posted:I don't need four wheel drive because I got snow tires.  e: I have a pair of snow chains for really gnarly snow. I've needed to use them exactly never. Good tires specialized for the conditions you use them in are almost magical. Invalido fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Feb 22, 2024 |
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Feb 22, 2024 18:21
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Engineerin Explained had a video on this a few months ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KGiVzNNW8Y Invalido posted:
I was only partially joking before, hills are a real problem with 2WD. I have to park on an incline at home and if it snowed, there's a good chance I won't be able to leave the parking spot beacuse of this:  E: DoesNotCompute posted:Honestly it was sort of counterintuitive to me, like if you're accelerating more effectively then traction must be higher, and to decelerate in snow, traction is the limiting factor so higher = better. But then you get into weight transfer between axles during heavy breaking and the variables of compacting snow ahead of the tires and all sorts of math and it's interesting to see some real world test. Ideal is probably a slightly fatter tire up front and skinnier rear tires in a RWD biased AWD setup. mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Feb 22, 2024 |
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Feb 22, 2024 19:14
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If you have better tires it wouldn't be a problem
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Feb 22, 2024 19:25
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I slap a couple of Clydesdales to my subframe when I pull into my driveway.
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Feb 22, 2024 19:28
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wesleywillis posted:If you have better tires it wouldn't be a problem I already have pretty good winter tires, but there's a physical limit on how steep of an incline you can drive up with only half of the weight on your driven wheels. That's what that table shows.
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Feb 22, 2024 19:51
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Finger Prince posted:The Algorithm sent me this. The one I get is the person with the super-lowered car bringing it into a shop because it drags on the ground and creates sparks. Uh, yeah, you lowered it to the ground. What else were you expecting? The terrible speaker non-install offends me as a former installer. Also, how does a shop fail to replace a transmission? (I'm pretty sure most of the time "another shop" is the owner...) RE: snow tires: I just live where it doesn't snow. Except when it does, at which time it is apocalyptic, but only for a few days to a week.
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Feb 22, 2024 20:02
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Colostomy Bag posted:I slap a couple of Clydesdales to my subframe when I pull into my driveway. Weird. I slapped a couple clydesdales and got kicked in the face.
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Feb 22, 2024 20:03
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Blue Footed Booby posted:Weird. I slapped a couple clydesdales and got kicked in the face. That explains why you have a long face.
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Feb 22, 2024 20:14
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mobby_6kl posted:I already have pretty good winter tires, but there's a physical limit on how steep of an incline you can drive up with only half of the weight on your driven wheels. That's what that table shows. If I had a really steep driveway or lived on top of a tricky hill or something I might consider AWD. Obviously more drive wheels means more traction. But seriously though, next time you buy winter tires consider spending a little extra for the top shelf test winning ones. In my experience the perceived performance difference between decent and really good snow tires is astounding.
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Feb 22, 2024 20:15
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My parents' place has a lovely steep driveway. We got out for years in FWD and RWD cars with decent snow tires, though my friends were always more cautious about getting enough speed to carry through. I drove a long commute in vermont in the winter for years, AWD 3 series and blizzak tires was a fantastic combo. Also driving cautiously.
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Feb 22, 2024 20:30
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mobby_6kl posted:I already have pretty good winter tires, but there's a physical limit on how steep of an incline you can drive up with only half of the weight on your driven wheels. That's what that table shows. Get EVEN BETTER tires. Or studs and chains or some poo poo.
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Feb 22, 2024 20:32
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Just have a come-a-long on the top of the driveway and drag that bad boy up the hill. If it's too slick to drive, it'll just make it easier to drag
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Feb 22, 2024 20:40
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To leave my parent's place we go up a hill that has 200' of elevation in half a mile, we average 10' of snowfall per winter. It's bad enough that I had to buy my dad the ECS tuning kit to retrofit a traction control button into his Jetta. The ECS would destroy his momentum so bad he couldn't get up the hill.
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Feb 22, 2024 20:48
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I have two rare winter driving skills that set me apart from most drivers; knowing when and how to turn off traction control and the ability to analyze weather forecasts and thus see into the future.
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Feb 22, 2024 21:22
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wesleywillis posted:Get EVEN BETTER tires. No.  Well maybe once these wear out.I'm not getting AWD either though so just have to shovel all the snow out or stay home (or walk like a loser).
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Feb 22, 2024 22:46
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The Door Frame posted:Just have a come-a-long on the top of the driveway and drag that bad boy up the hill. If it's too slick to drive, it'll just make it easier to drag At this point make a small clearing for parking at the base and get a Snowcat as a shuttle bus.
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Feb 22, 2024 23:38
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Finger Prince posted:The Algorithm sent me this. Thanks to this channel I now hear the phrase "the customer declined all repairs" in my nightmares.
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Feb 23, 2024 02:38
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mobby_6kl posted:No. Get JATO
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Feb 23, 2024 03:08
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My problem with an AWD wagon with snow tires is that I would have to go dangerously fast to have any fun when snow is on the ground, so I just have boring safe drives. (AWD was the only option when I was buying this car, it wasn't something I went out of my way to get)
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Feb 23, 2024 16:55
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You can rip my Quattro out of my cold, dead hands, after I spun out on the side of a road covered in black ice.
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Feb 23, 2024 17:20
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I'm the guy in the Subaru with snows in the slow lane driving whatever speed the conditions warrant, laughing at the lifted pickups on giant mud terrains blowing by and getting stuck in the ditch. Snows are just an extra margin of safety and control. They're not for driving like it's summer and sunny when it's 15° and snowing.
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Feb 23, 2024 17:26
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^^^^^ Same but Corolla or Tacoma.
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Feb 23, 2024 17:31
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PitViper posted:I'm the guy in the Subaru with snows in the slow lane driving whatever speed the conditions warrant, laughing at the lifted pickups on giant mud terrains blowing by and getting stuck in the ditch. One of the highest forms of schadenfreude
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Feb 23, 2024 17:31
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Pootiling along in the right lane going the speed limit is immensely satisfying when the shithead going 20 over in the left lane is pulled over for speeding a few miles up the road.
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Feb 23, 2024 17:55
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PitViper posted:I'm the guy in the Subaru with snows in the slow lane driving whatever speed the conditions warrant, laughing at the lifted pickups on giant mud terrains blowing by and getting stuck in the ditch. And they are the ones not having to replace head gaskets.
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Feb 23, 2024 18:26
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Full Collapse posted:Pootiling along in the right lane going the speed limit is immensely satisfying when the shithead going 20 over in the left lane is pulled over for speeding a few miles up the road. Or when you catch up to them and they wasted all that fuel to not get anywhere any sooner
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Feb 23, 2024 18:40
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OBAMNA PHONE posted:Or when you catch up to them and they wasted all that fuel to not get anywhere any sooner I love pulling up next to a guy at a red, who peeled out from the last green, just to repeat the process.
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Feb 23, 2024 19:40
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