(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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BP should be permitted to post imo. He's dumb and annoying and poorly educated but that's no different than anyone else in this forum.
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Feb 23, 2024 21:15
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Except me. I'm lovely.
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Feb 23, 2024 21:15
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Son of Sorrow posted:poorly educated but that's no different than anyone else in this forum. Now you've gone too far
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Feb 23, 2024 21:30
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Son of Sorrow posted:BP should be permitted to post imo. He's dumb and annoying and poorly educated but that's no different than anyone else in this forum. He can post all he wants
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Feb 23, 2024 21:43
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BillsPhoenix posted:Last reply as there's good discussions going on. my course was in economics, which in my university has a branch of disciplines of political economy, in which also there is Marxist economics. My first textbook was "Introduction to Economics" by Greg Mankiw. Harvard professor and economist who sat in the council of economic advisers of the US government: literally the most dominant discourse in the field possible was my first contact then. I had to read Friedman, Varian, Samuelson, Krugman, Solow, Blanchard (loving MIT economists holy loving poo poo) and dear God I had to read the goddamned Austrians too but of course, I am standing in the way of a luminary of economics just about to revolutionize the entire field, so let me help you by keeping focus on your reading and studies instead of being in this thread
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Feb 23, 2024 22:02
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A ‘Western’ economist may fail a Marxist economics course but a Marxist economist would pass a Western economics course. Makes u think
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Feb 23, 2024 22:07
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Son of Sorrow posted:BP should be permitted to post imo. He's dumb and annoying and poorly educated but that's no different than anyone else in this forum. Son of Thunderbeast posted:He can post all he wants As a person full of vanity, it's a pretty safe bet that I am going to get vindictive about the time when I was obliged to study with serious effort some of the most awful thinking on this world (like one of the supplementary readings for overview of western economic thought was ayn rand, jfc)
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Feb 23, 2024 22:11
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dead gay comedy forums posted:As a person full of vanity, it's a pretty safe bet that I am going to get vindictive about the time when I was obliged to study with serious effort some of the most awful thinking on this world Gross
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Feb 23, 2024 22:15
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dead gay comedy forums posted:my course was in economics, which in my university has a branch of disciplines of political economy, in which also there is Marxist economics. My first textbook was "Introduction to Economics" by Greg Mankiw. Harvard professor and economist who sat in the council of economic advisers of the US government: literally the most dominant discourse in the field possible was my first contact then. I had to read Friedman, Varian, Samuelson, Krugman, Solow, Blanchard (loving MIT economists holy loving poo poo) and dear God I had to read the goddamned Austrians too I took an organization design course from the business department instead, and it was pretty eye-opening and amusing to be in a class in the business school with business students. It was a pretty good class, though, and we were assigned a wide range of readings including Labor and Monopoly Capital: The Degradation of Work in the Twentieth Century. Basically nobody else did the reading and the professor clearly thought the students were very stupid. I think she was some flavor of Marxist -- I just looked her up and she most recently published in Monthly Review and has a whole lot of articles with "neoliberalism," "labor," and "political economy" in the title.
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Feb 23, 2024 22:24
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mankiw? didn't he have a radio show?
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Feb 23, 2024 23:06
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please no, i can't handle the marxism thread and deadlock colliding
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Feb 23, 2024 23:17
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Aeolius posted:
yeah it did change some of the way i think and analyze. like after watching movies together my wife and i like to talk about them and this year she mentioned the way i was analyzing movies had changed and i was making connections she hadn’t thought of and asked why i was suddenly doing that. and honestly i think it’s because i read capital
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Feb 24, 2024 00:11
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I haven't read capital but I have read a soviet textbook on dialectical materialism and I also find myself approaching things differently.
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Feb 24, 2024 00:39
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Recently finished capital vol. 1 and while I've been exposed to a decent amount Marxism elsewhere it really does complete the picture in a way nothing else I've read has. I found David Harvey's YouTube lectures to be very helpful with regard to background on all of the contemporaries Marx was responding to that I have very little exposure to (Ricardo, Malthus, Smith, and so on), as well as a sanity check when the writing gets a bit dense/German. I seem to remember Harvey catching poo poo in this thread before.* But for anyone complaining about the C + V, C-M-C talk, there are some all-time 360 dunks by Marx in there to break that up. He really does seem like the taintrunner of his day (all apologies to big Karl) *On that note I'd be interested to hear more about the Harvey hate, unless I'm misremembering. Best I could tell is that he didn't agree that base-superstructure interaction is necessarily deterministic, and doesn't seem convinced trpf is always a given. Although the tprf objection he has seems to just be a matter of whether you're considering a long enough timeline or are intentionally narrowing the timeframe you're discussing, in which yeah, of course you'll be able to find temporally limited examples when it won't fall, but I'm sure his passing remarks represent something a little more thought out than what he brings into just these lectures. I don't have as much time to commit to reading the denser academic stuff as I'd like, but I do really enjoy it. Are there some other good reading recs to follow this up with to get me similar educational bang for my time commitment buck, or should I just keep going with vol 2 and 3? Same with companion literature if Harvey is just going to Teach Me Wrong On Purpose As A Joke.
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Feb 24, 2024 00:41
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gradenko_2000 posted:the 38th anniversary of the People Power "revolution" is coming up in two days this hits horifically close to home and my home is on the literal other side of the world V. Illych L. has issued a correction as of 01:45 on Feb 24, 2024 |
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Feb 24, 2024 00:58
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BillsPhoenix posted:Last reply as there's good discussions going on. good shoot
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Feb 24, 2024 01:42
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Aeolius posted:
Also the chapter on working hours will make you raging mad.
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Feb 24, 2024 02:32
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I also finished capital vol 1 recently and I just want to echo the other posters saying that it changed my thinking to a degree that no other book has.
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Feb 24, 2024 03:05
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bigstupidjellyfish posted:I also finished capital vol 1 recently and I just want to echo the other posters saying that it changed my thinking to a degree that no other book has. No loving wonder its a semi-taboo book in the US. Elites really don't like us common folk knowin' how things work.
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Feb 24, 2024 03:07
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It's hard to overstate the impact that learning dialectical materialism can have on a person's view on the world, especially considering how in the West we are all born into insane ideological liberalism and are implicitly forbidden from thinking materially. I don't know about David Harvey specifically but most Western academics will have some kind of quibble with some aspect of Marxism in it's foundations for reasons that, to me, often seem less scientific and maybe a bit more focused on the specifics of their own historical moment. To me it often feels like people trying to think their way around the overwhelming violence of the capitalist state, and desperately trying to ignore leninism in favor of Marxism alone. What I'm saying is never trust white people I guess.
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Feb 24, 2024 03:13
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i read capital vol 1 and im still stupid
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Feb 24, 2024 03:14
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mila kunis posted:i read capital vol 1 and im still stupid Have you tried the other two
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Feb 24, 2024 03:27
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mila kunis posted:i read capital vol 1 and im still stupid me too
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Feb 24, 2024 05:01
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mila kunis posted:i read capital vol 1 and im still stupid 'cause you read the fake capitalist version that's meant to turn people off from marxism. the one with all the yards of cloth and schillings and child labor. you need to read the international publishers version where it's all about marx and engels rollin' through london gettin' laid paid and faded
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Feb 24, 2024 06:03
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BillsPhoenix posted:Last reply as there's good discussions going on. 
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Feb 24, 2024 08:37
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Feb 24, 2024 08:51
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Feb 24, 2024 15:08
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mila kunis posted:i read capital vol 1 and im still stupid Same My advice to that poster from earlier is don't skip around in volume 1 because you get a much clearer idea of a) what dialectics is and b) how Marx is using it by reading volume 1 in order. The biggest piece of advice I could give is revisit the opening chapters after you've read and digested volume 1 because by then you have a better understanding of why Marx is putting so much emphasis on commodities, money, and exchange. Then do the hell march of Capital volume 2, part 1
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Feb 24, 2024 18:17
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chapters 10 and 15 are great but my all time favorite remains the 4/5/6 (iirc) complex that reveals how and why profit can possibly exist at all even given the assumption of scrupulously fair and 100% voluntary value-for-value exchange. "(surplus value) is the key to all this" -g. lucas
Ferrinus has issued a correction as of 22:00 on Feb 24, 2024 |
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Feb 24, 2024 21:55
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If you are reading purely for yourself, honestly? Read it leisurely, no pressure, if something pops up, write a note, ask it here/google a bit, all in your own time. It becomes a bit of a project, and can take a lot more time, but works really really well. There's also the strategy that I posted before of "just reading it" very casually as leisure, without pressing yourself at all, then taking a bit of time off then reading it with a program or just being more attentive. Alternatively, there are stuff like reading groups - this can perhaps be most easily found through your local socialist party. Seriously worth it if you feel a social fit. If your trade union is lefty, they can have some related activities, but it depends a lot where you are. You can go to university. If you are near a public one, it's worth googling to see if they have anything - Marx can be buried in a syllabus somewhere - and if they have open classes where you can enroll as a guest. It's the intensive way - a structured environment with a learning project supervised by someone who can help out. I recommend this choice above others only if you are really interested in learning the poo poo, you are able to go to classes and making time for reading, you are not going to be deprived of other important activities to do, etc.
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Feb 24, 2024 22:44
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it's been a challenge to apply it to capital but usually when I'm dealing with a complex book I read through the whole thing not even stopping when I don't understand poo poo, but just to reach the end and realize like "oh ok that's all of it" and then I go back to the beginning and re-read it since now I have a bit more context for the parts I don't understand, and it makes it easier to dig into the parts I struggle with as I reach them again
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Feb 24, 2024 22:55
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Tempora Mutantur posted:it's been a challenge to apply it to capital but usually when I'm dealing with a complex book I read through the whole thing not even stopping when I don't understand poo poo, but just to reach the end and realize like "oh ok that's all of it" and then I go back to the beginning and re-read it since now I have a bit more context for the parts I don't understand, and it makes it easier to dig into the parts I struggle with as I reach them again hell yeah A great comparison that I learned like just a few weeks ago and blew my mind was to read like you are practicing/learning music. I was like holy poo poo why that nugget of wisdom didn’t appear to me ten years ago lmao
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Feb 24, 2024 23:00
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I don't think it's actually bad at all, compared to Iamblichus or Theophrastus - really anyone before Hegel.
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Feb 24, 2024 23:28
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a reading group is basically how I made it through capital. a good way to make friends, contacts, take baby steps into political organizing too.
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Feb 25, 2024 02:20
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Ferrinus posted:chapters 10 and 15 are great but my all time favorite remains the 4/5/6 (iirc) complex that reveals how and why profit can possibly exist at all even given the assumption of scrupulously fair and 100% voluntary value-for-value exchange. "(surplus value) is the key to all this" -g. lucas yeah chapter 6 is where he talks about labor power being a commodity and that was the chapter that actually drew me into the book. as soon as i saw the title of chapter 6 i was like oh man thats why hes spent the first 5 chapters doing this crap. it all leads to this
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Feb 25, 2024 03:40
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just reading this thread has immensely improved my experience with reading capital so far, it makes a lot more sense when you sort of see how it builds to modern discussion
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Feb 25, 2024 17:24
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Reading Society of the Spectacle. According to the e-reader I am about 50% and I find myself skipping whole pages regularly. First part of the book is really great and insightful, but now Debord nitpicking how the Soviet Union wasn't (or I guess "isn't", when he was writing it) real communism and real Marxism but instead totalitarian capitalism. Dude is just going in circles reiterating the same point when he could have just said "politcal purges are scary and bad" and moved on.
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Feb 26, 2024 03:23
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Tempora Mutantur posted:it's been a challenge to apply it to capital but usually when I'm dealing with a complex book I read through the whole thing not even stopping when I don't understand poo poo, but just to reach the end and realize like "oh ok that's all of it" and then I go back to the beginning and re-read it since now I have a bit more context for the parts I don't understand, and it makes it easier to dig into the parts I struggle with as I reach them again not sure if it'd work for a whole book but i was taught to read academic papers by first reading the opening and closing sentences of each paragraph then go back and read it all of it. it accomplishes the same thing but is quicker
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Feb 27, 2024 02:15
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Maed posted:not sure if it'd work for a whole book but i was taught to read academic papers by first reading the opening and closing sentences of each paragraph then go back and read it all of it. it accomplishes the same thing but is quicker it definitely does. you read the first chapter that tells you what all the other chapters are about, then read any chapters you think are interesting enough, and if you feel like it, you read the conclusion. that's how most people get through comps I think. I don't know if it works for philosophy/sociology books like society of the spectacle though. anything written for modern academia though it should work just fine because the format is pretty standard across most publishers.
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Feb 27, 2024 02:26
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is it worth your time and safety to organize in an all-volunteer army?
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Feb 27, 2024 05:19
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