|
A better analogy is chemotherapy. The chemo might kill you faster than the cancer if you're unlucky, but if you do nothing, the cancer will definitely kill you. We aren't being edgy when we talk about the status quo ante being a slow genocide.
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 00:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 02:22 |
|
|
Esran posted:A better analogy is chemotherapy. I know it's not the intention, but calling what is happening in Gaza chemotherapy in any context invites some really unfortunate parallels, especially considering some rhetoric by Israeli officials.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 00:35
|
|
|
You misunderstand. I wasn't calling what Israel is doing in Gaza chemotherapy. I was disagreeing with IBMS calling Hamas' attack on October 7th "chopping your leg off to remove an ingrown toenail". I think that's a gross misreading of what is happening, and it's minimizing how bad the situation was for the Palestinians before October 7th. I'm saying a better analogy is that Palestine has cancer (Israel's genocide, which was going on way before October 7th), and they get to choose between letting that continue, or trying to do something about it. Edit: Though obviously an even better idea is to not make bad analogies, everyone understands what's happening without them. Esran fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Feb 23, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 00:46
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:The US is not out there forcing Israel to commit genocide. Nor is it playing some absolutely vital role here where the genocide would be impossible without their help (unlike, say, Egypt, whose active cooperation in blockading Gaza's southern border has been crucial to Israel's starvation policies). well if the genocide's going to happen anyway, we might as well support it, supply it and give it diplomatic cover
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 01:20
|
|
|
theCalamity posted:“Arab backed” sounds like fearmongering. It’s definitely making me remember that one old lady who spoke to John McCain and said she didn’t trust Obama because he’s Arab. At the very least, it’s indelicate. Al Jazeera’s “Arab nations, led by Algeria” is a much better handling of it. Actually she said she didn't trust Obama because he was a Muslim. And then of course McCain responded with "No no, he's not Muslim, he's a good man". 
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 02:07
|
|
|
Moktaro posted:Actually she said she didn't trust Obama because he was a Muslim. And then of course McCain responded with "No no, he's not Muslim, he's a good man". You may be misremembering it Video of it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrnRU3ocIH4 And an article about it https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/8/25/17782572/john-mccain-barack-obama-statement-2008-video quote:“I can’t trust Obama. I have read about him, and he’s not, um, he’s an Arab,” a woman said to McCain at a town hall meeting in Lakeville, Minnesota in October 2008.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 06:21
|
|
|
Context guys, the 'arab' accusation was that he was lying about being a natural born citizen and that his agenda was secretly to destroy America as part of a long term Muslim sleeper agent plot. When McCain said 'he's a good guy' he's clearly refuting the wider conspiracy the woman was talking about.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 09:03
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:The US is not out there forcing Israel to commit genocide. Nor is it playing some absolutely vital role here where the genocide would be impossible without their help (unlike, say, Egypt, whose active cooperation in blockading Gaza's southern border has been crucial to Israel's starvation policies). Nucleic Acids posted:https://twitter.com/AP/status/1759968055835173364 Seems an awful lot like this current hot genocide wouldn't be continuing without US support.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 09:04
|
|
|
Angry Avocado posted:I did not expect such a lengthy response. This list is fantastic, thank you very much No problem. I've got a couple of books by Derek Penslar on my reading list for March ('Zionism: an emotional state' and his Herzl biography). By all accounts he's the pre-eminent expert on Zionism (at least from Jewish/Israeli perspectives). I haven't yet read his work but I imagine his Zionism book will probably tap into some of the themes I've talked about and probably well worth your time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 12:16
|
|
|
hooman posted:Seems an awful lot like this current hot genocide wouldn't be continuing without US support. It’s a non binding resolution. Israel would care as much about it as Russia has cared about the one passed calling on them to stop their invasion. Which is to ignore it and keep continuing on with their genocide
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 12:49
|
|
|
Kalit posted:It’s a non binding resolution. Israel would care as much about it as Russia has cared about the one passed calling on them to stop their invasion. Which is to ignore it and keep continuing on with their genocide So you're saying the US knew it meant nothing but still voted against it? That's worse.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 13:10
|
|
|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:So you're saying the US knew it meant nothing but still voted against it? That's worse. Huh? The US voted against it because they don't want Israel to fully stop. I was just pointing out that the UN resolution outcome wouldn't stop Israel's genocide either way, since hooman seemed to be insinuating otherwise by including it in their post.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 14:41
|
|
|
Right, so they're saying the US won't even put in the meaningless gesture that they care about the people in Gaza.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 14:52
|
|
|
Yawgmoft posted:Right, so they're saying the US won't even put in the meaningless gesture that they care about the people in Gaza. Well, we promised to put in the hard work to reach a Final Solution to the problem. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 15:10
|
|
|
Alchenar posted:Context guys, the 'arab' accusation was that he was lying about being a natural born citizen and that his agenda was secretly to destroy America as part of a long term Muslim sleeper agent plot. I get that. But I said that “Arab backed” reminded me of that woman and they said that she said Muslim so I posted what she actually said.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 15:25
|
|
|
Haaretz has confirmed another 10/7 friendly fire incident https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1760726151910015187
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 15:40
|
|
|
Wasn't Nova itself a FF incident?
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 15:45
|
|
|
HootTheOwl posted:Wasn't Nova itself a FF incident?
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 15:50
|
|
|
More like IDFmas amirite (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 15:53
|
|
|
theCalamity posted:I get that. But I said that “Arab backed” reminded me of that woman and they said that she said Muslim so I posted what she actually said. Yeah looks like I got that wrong, sorry. Not like my memory's been getting worse since Covid or anything. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 19:30
|
|
|
Anyone who still spouts off about the West, and its human rights®, and its democracy values is who we are™, ought to be forced to read this entire thread, Clockwork Orange style. And then shipped off to Gaza, or better yet, Guantanamo. Empire of lies, indeed, run by irredeemably wicked sociopaths. Sarmat, Poseidon, Kinzhal - do your duty. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 21:01
|
|
|
There's this English idiom that fits the sad little noises coming from The Biden via the press. I believe it's called "crocodile tears". See for the crocodile, sophisticate that he is, It's not just that the tears he sheds as he mangles his prey are fake, but also that he takes particular pleasure in putting on the act no matter how absurd or unconvincing. The Westerner cries out in pain as he strikes you. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 21:24
|
|
|
FieryBalrog posted:Anyone who still spouts off about the West, and its human rights®, and its democracy values is who we are™, ought to be forced to read this entire thread, Clockwork Orange style. And then shipped off to Gaza, or better yet, Guantanamo. You know OP is smart because they're edgily using a rhetorical call for the massacre of millions of innocents to show how superior they are to the Westerners. Definitely a serious, well reasoned and justice minded poster we're dealing with here. You're tilting at windmills with this, no one from the West active in this thread is going to be arguing we're living up to our ideals. That's why everyone ITT is fed up with the constant blockade at the UNSC and of Biden's unceasing support. Anyway, some more toothless words from the administration: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/blinken-says-israels-new-settlements-west-bank-inconsistent-with-international-2024-02-23/ I'll give a poo poo when they sanction everyone involved in settlements, impose penalties or pursue actions against US citizens involved in settlements. Until then it's more bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 21:58
|
|
|
It's one of the reasons the US has been so successful in dominating the globe. The propaganda machine is so sophisticated it makes a huge number of people fully believe they're some of the most moral and upstanding people in the world while they support the extermination and subjugation of oppressed peoples around the world. You can see it in the difference between western and Israeli media. The Hebrew language stuff targeted at Israelis doesn't have to pretend that they think Palestinians are human, it's just all out there in the open, the slaughter must continue and it's good. English language media targeted at US liberals like the New York Times and CNN is much more practiced at coming to the same conclusion while making the reader think that they're supporting a nuanced position. The slaughter is a tragedy, but regrettably it must continue.
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 22:06
|
|
|
FieryBalrog posted:The Westerner cries out in pain as he strikes you. Not sure if you're aware of this, but this saying originates in hateful bigotry - the original saying being "the Jew cries out in pain as he strikes you" - and remains a very common Neo-Nazi dog whistle. Obviously this weirdo Nazi talk should be kept far from all anti-Zionism. Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Feb 23, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 22:40
|
|
|
Kalit posted:It’s a non binding resolution. Israel would care as much about it as Russia has cared about the one passed calling on them to stop their invasion. Which is to ignore it and keep continuing on with their genocide I know that it is non binding, but a resolution like that would create the space for embargos etc with justification just like we saw with Russia. Israel, unlike Russia, doesn't have the industrial, resource or manpower base to continue their actions if similar embargoes were put in place, so US support is materially needed for the genocide to continue. hooman fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Feb 23, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 23:27
|
|
|
hooman posted:Seems an awful lot like this current hot genocide wouldn't be continuing without US support. I might have my wires crossed but didn't the US veto that one to replace it with their (flimsier) resolution?
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 23:37
|
|
|
FieryBalrog posted:The Westerner cries out in pain as he strikes you. God the absolute loving fullbore irony of the origin of this quote being thrown as part of a moral broadside attempt
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2024 23:52
|
|
|
Israel officials say they’re badly in need of additional U.S. military aid https://jewishinsider.com/2024/02/israel-u-s-military-aid-gaza-hamas-war-lebanon-hezbollah/
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2024 00:06
|
|
|
yadda yadda anonymous sources from a famously disingenuous govt but the framing is actually interesting 1) "sure we can afford it but we might have to make cuts in other areas" 2) "we've been using so much of our stockpile to do a genocide that what if we need to fight a real conflict with Hezbollah and don't have enough to do both that and genocide  "3) might genuinely have iron dome supply issues vvv JNS is an absolute psycho outlet and the article is inexplicably light on facts, but under the circumstances there's probably value in hearing what absolute psychos are thinking. They seem genuinely worried about the possibility of future arms sanctions. also something that isn't in the headline that is funny* quote:Nevertheless, it has become painfully clear that Israel’s dependence on American ammunition supplies, which saw more than 200 cargo planes touch down Israel following Hamas’s Oct. 7 invasion, has become a danger to national security and independence. Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Feb 24, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2024 00:09
|
|
|
'We in Israel Are Far More Dependent on the U.S. Than We Ever Knew' https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...df-bef6eeb50000 Israel begins shift to domestic ammunition production https://www.jns.org/israel-begins-shift-to-domestic-ammunition-production/ quote:In the wake of the ongoing war against Hamas and its exposure of Israel’s near total dependence on the United States to replenish its stocks of ammunition, Israel has begun shifting toward greater domestic ammunition production. Mia Wasikowska fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Feb 24, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2024 00:16
|
|
|
Admittedly burger brained, but could Israel be trying to hurt Biden knowing its an election year and the alternative is Trump? Much like that angry fellow upthread I've basically fallen to "I hope we loving burn" when it comes to our complicity and outright assistance in the eradication of Gaza, but surely Israel would prefer we were more gleeful about slaughtering Palestinians no? Anybody not on board is gonna feel real... sour about these statements contrasted with Biden's actions.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2024 00:22
|
|
|
BRJurgis posted:Admittedly burger brained, but could Israel be trying to hurt Biden knowing its an election year and the alternative is Trump? It's not a major factor but Netanyahu has directly intervened in US politics in Trump's favor before and has no qualms about doing so again.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2024 00:33
|
|
|
FieryBalrog posted:Anyone who still spouts off about the West, and its human rights®, and its democracy values is who we are™, ought to be forced to read this entire thread, Clockwork Orange style. And then shipped off to Gaza, or better yet, Guantanamo. Besides what everyone said about this, weird to call out to Russian weapons to 'do your duty'. Mia Wasikowska posted:'We in Israel Are Far More Dependent on the U.S. Than We Ever Knew' Well hopefully they can stop being dependent by receiving nothing at all. And make nothing at all as well.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2024 01:26
|
|
|
Google Jeb Bush posted:I might have my wires crossed but didn't the US veto that one to replace it with their (flimsier) resolution? That resolution is still just a draft, and the US has said that they're in no rush for the security council vote on it. This is also the third time they've vetoed a ceasefire resolution:  It looks like the US is just generally pretty cool with and supportive of the genocide that Israel is carrying out, based on all of the material support they're providing for the genocide and their continued stonewalling of any efforts to stop the genocide.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2024 01:55
|
|
|
B B posted:That resolution is still just a draft, and the US has said that they're in no rush for the security council vote on it. This is also the third time they've vetoed a ceasefire resolution: Oh then I'm wrong, couldn't remember offhand if it was voted for. Yeah, getting *something* on the table would make it easier for member states to take some sort of action.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2024 02:03
|
|
|
hooman posted:I know that it is non binding, but a resolution like that would create the space for embargos etc with justification just like we saw with Russia. I’m confused. Who had enacted embargoes on Russia solely based on that UN resolution passing? I haven’t heard of any, but TBH, I haven’t been paying too much attention.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2024 02:04
|
|
|
Kalit posted:I’m confused. Who had enacted embargoes on Russia solely based on that UN resolution passing? I haven’t heard of any, but TBH, I haven’t been paying too much attention. why are you like this (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2024 02:15
|
|
|
punishedkissinger posted:why are you like this Why am I like what? I just want people to make factual statements, since hyperbole loses so much nuance. Sorry if that’s a tall order  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2024 02:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 02:22 |
|
|
Kalit posted:Why am I like what? How about you start making factual statements or contributing something that approaches a clear opinion instead of standing on the sidelines ‘just asking questions’ in what someone cynical would read as a continuous stream of attempts to divert from the points people are making. How about you start by clarifying what you think the poster is saying and then offering an opinion on it instead of pretending you’ve had a substantial head injury?
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2024 11:13
|
|