mags posted:

it is funny to stare past all the unnatural exploitation and man made horror and take offense at the one actual bit of unchangeable human nature, people gently caress and make babies and that is morally abhorrent. in fact it makes one the most leftist of all

4d3d3d posted:

https://twitter.com/SaraHor76174949/status/1761430578186821881
PFAS is everywhere and it causes cancer and infertility. Clock's ticking motherfuckers

fanfic insert posted:

https://twitter.com/FordPrefect747/status/1761441813313859730

mags posted:

it is funny to stare past all the unnatural exploitation and man made horror and take offense at the one actual bit of unchangeable human nature, people gently caress and make babies and that is morally abhorrent. in fact it makes one the most leftist of all

4d3d3d posted:

People can criticize multiple things at once

Salt Fish posted:

The existence of birth control is proof that its not unchangeable human nature to raise a catholic dozen.

mags posted:

yeah people like that tend to have more than one dumb grievance lol

mags posted:

birth control kicks rear end and so does family planning and condoms, and im happy they exist and everyone should have access to them

4d3d3d posted:

Surely the winning team is the one having to clarify this

RC Cola posted:

Who gives a poo poo if people have kids or not. Number gonna go up baby. Look at those red lines, you think they can go down? Up up up we go forever!

Unless posted:

my community library hosts a monthly end-of-life group on thursdays at 3pm

everyone goes around and tells the story of why they’re there

some are really coming to grips with their age, some have a prolonged terminal diagnoses, some just had a family member recently pass, some are new moms that never really thought about their mortality and their relationship with their children makes them cry

everyone cries

the climate grief workshop at the syncretic, vaguely eastern religion, yoga studio wasn’t well attended enough to justify recurrence

maybe that’ll change

mags posted:

it is funny to stare past all the unnatural exploitation and man made horror and take offense at the one actual bit of unchangeable human nature, people gently caress and make babies and that is morally abhorrent. in fact it makes one the most leftist of all

RandomBlue posted:

i better not hear about anybody in this thread loving

Skaffen-Amtiskaw posted:

RandomBlue posted:

i better not hear about anybody in this thread loving

fanfic insert posted:

https://twitter.com/FordPrefect747/status/1761441813313859730

silicone thrills posted:

Yeah. No one alive and posting on the internet remembers what it was like to have skys full of birds and bugs.

Mr. Sharps posted:

a lot of people have no baseline for “flourishing”

4d3d3d posted:

I saw a tweet recently that was "Wait, car windshields used to get bug splatter so bad you'd have to pull over specifically to clean them?" and I died

quote:

Imagine graduating highschool into a world that is clearly, visibly, irreversibly and undeniably hosed. Cities getting swept by wildfire and hurricanes and loss of ground water

silicone thrills posted:

I have friends with kids in high school now that are clearly very aware of how hosed everything is and its just generally upsetting.

I guess thats why oil companies are sending lobbyists in to tell them its fine!

Gumball Gumption posted:

I don't think anyone has to imagine this

silicone thrills posted:

I have friends with kids in high school now that are clearly very aware of how hosed everything is and its just generally upsetting.

I guess thats why oil companies are sending lobbyists in to tell them its fine!

bawfuls posted:

Maybe I’m not crack pinged enough but I find it the most eye rolling and tedious kind of posting in this thread. I guess it’s like a dnd lib wandering in here and earnestly arguing that we can totally limit warming to 2C and you’re all doomer assholes for suggesting otherwise and why aren’t you out trying to convince everyone you know to help?? But somehow the former is a lot more weird and pathetic to me while the latter is funny.

The Oldest Man posted:

I'm not having kids but that's not really because I'm an antinatalist.

A kid born today will turn 18 in 2042. Imagine graduating highschool into a world that is clearly, visibly, irreversibly and undeniably hosed. Cities getting swept by wildfire and hurricanes and loss of ground water (or water tables totally poisoned by chemicals or saltwater infiltration) so regularly that building new things to last or settling anywhere seems like a waste of time. If you live somewhere "safe" it'll be flooded with climate refugees by then. If you don't, you're going to be like an Okie with your family. Imagine putting your first foot on the ground on the road toward some future life and stepping on a nail. That's going to be the experience for most kids graduating highschool in 2042. Rich countries probably won't be internally collapsing by then, but the number of homeless and dispossessed is going to be in the millions by that point, and any bit of bad luck with your life or a big weather event and you go into the grinder. The people with reserves will be able to weather that a bit, but young people will be flowing into prison camps, homeless encampments, and graves at rates that haven't been seen since the early 1800s.

A kid born today will turn 40 in 2064. Imagine having a midlife crisis in a world in which famine in the developed world is not just something that can happen but something that happens quite regularly. Every two, three years a bunch of poor people in supposedly rich countries will die of malnutrition. Maybe the US will hang on a little longer than this because of how deep the ag production here is, but it's going to be extremely hard times and Europe is going to be totally hosed by this point. Imagine thinking about having your own kids in a world in which you're not sure you're going to be able to feed them consistently enough that they'll make it to adulthood. Imagine comforting a child when their body starts to shut down because it's trying to grow and it's burning all its reserves, but you can't get enough calories for them. Imagine feeling your body start to decline in middle age knowing that you will never be able to stop working because if you can't work you go in the grinder. Imagine knowing that this isn't just your problem; the zeitgeist of everyone except the rich elite has become one of utter, defeated despair. Every person you talk to or interact with on a daily basis at this point is thinking the same poo poo: when is my number going to get punched? When is my family going to be made homeless? When is the day going to come when the food is going to stop showing up at the grocery store and never start again? And that's a best case. A lot of people aren't going to have the luxury of existential crisis: they'll be dying or suffering deprivation on the way to dying.

A kid born today will turn 65 in 2089. Or will they? Natural life expectancy in the US today would put a kid born today living until 2090 or 2100, but most kids born today aren't going to make it that far. If you have a kid right now, you're pretty much accepting (whether you know it or not) that the life you create will suffer and probably die of disease, climate disaster, starvation, or violence years if not decades before their time. But if they do turn 65, they will look out at a world that is in the midst of a transition into a new climate and atmospheric regime under which industrial civilization may not be possible anymore - and the billions of lives still relying on that civilization may not be possible either. Everything they ever knew, the places, the people, the food, the music, will be coming to a series of shockingly abrupt ends around them by then. After a lifetime of struggle just to survive, they will face a world not just in decline but in total collapse.

And all through this time, they will face a society that won't (and can't) come to terms with the situation and try do better. A high-energy capitalistic political economy is not compatible with the kind of change needed to even make an attempt at staving off the disaster. "Doing better" enough to prevent the onrushing disaster isn't really possible at all at this point, but it would provide a nice sense of unity and purpose which goes a long way toward making suffering and struggle tolerable. But kids born now won't have that. They'll have a collapsing neoliberal demon society that will never, ever stop lying to its members en masse as long as the organs that produce the lies continue to function. They'll be lied to, silenced, propagandized, and have any effort they make undermined at every turn. They'll see the homeless murdered and be told first that it never happened and then that it was a necessary evil and finally that it was Good Actually. They'll face the collapse of their material circumstances and be shouted down that actually everything's going well and you shouldn't ask for better. And that's just the kind of poo poo that'll happen in the developed world; they'll still be seeing news about mass death in poor equatorial countries that will dwarf anything any human has ever seen. Whole cities of people who died in freak weather events in a matter of hours or days, whole countries starving to death in a matter of weeks by the end of the century. And then right after seeing that, they'll hear about how net zero is right around the corner - or even that it's already been achieved and everything is great and you're a doomer if you think otherwise. They'll be jailed if they say genocide is bad. They'll be shot if they protest about it.

So I'm not having a kid because while my life is still livable and will be for a while, they would have only a distant memory of that kind of life to taunt them as they descend into hell.

YaketySass posted:

Really weird at this point to choose not to have kid for their impact on the world rather than the world's impact on them.

But then 99% of humans who ever lived did so under circumstances the average goon would find revolting to experience and they still did not consider having kids immoral, so I guess you shouldn't either.

People can get used to anything. There may be significant drops in living standards and a dazzling variety of possible catastrophes but that'll just toughen them up. If they ever whine to you over why you chose to have them, you can just call them sadbrain doomers who need to be normal and realize that it's not that bad, yet.

The Oldest Man posted:

I'm not having kids but that's not really because I'm an antinatalist.

A kid born today will turn 18 in 2042. Imagine graduating highschool into a world that is clearly, visibly, irreversibly and undeniably hosed. Cities getting swept by wildfire and hurricanes and loss of ground water (or water tables totally poisoned by chemicals or saltwater infiltration) so regularly that building new things to last or settling anywhere seems like a waste of time. If you live somewhere "safe" it'll be flooded with climate refugees by then. If you don't, you're going to be like an Okie with your family. Imagine putting your first foot on the ground on the road toward some future life and stepping on a nail. That's going to be the experience for most kids graduating highschool in 2042. Rich countries probably won't be internally collapsing by then, but the number of homeless and dispossessed is going to be in the millions by that point, and any bit of bad luck with your life or a big weather event and you go into the grinder. The people with reserves will be able to weather that a bit, but young people will be flowing into prison camps, homeless encampments, and graves at rates that haven't been seen since the early 1800s.

A kid born today will turn 40 in 2064. Imagine having a midlife crisis in a world in which famine in the developed world is not just something that can happen but something that happens quite regularly. Every two, three years a bunch of poor people in supposedly rich countries will die of malnutrition. Maybe the US will hang on a little longer than this because of how deep the ag production here is, but it's going to be extremely hard times and Europe is going to be totally hosed by this point. Imagine thinking about having your own kids in a world in which you're not sure you're going to be able to feed them consistently enough that they'll make it to adulthood. Imagine comforting a child when their body starts to shut down because it's trying to grow and it's burning all its reserves, but you can't get enough calories for them. Imagine feeling your body start to decline in middle age knowing that you will never be able to stop working because if you can't work you go in the grinder. Imagine knowing that this isn't just your problem; the zeitgeist of everyone except the rich elite has become one of utter, defeated despair. Every person you talk to or interact with on a daily basis at this point is thinking the same poo poo: when is my number going to get punched? When is my family going to be made homeless? When is the day going to come when the food is going to stop showing up at the grocery store and never start again? And that's a best case. A lot of people aren't going to have the luxury of existential crisis: they'll be dying or suffering deprivation on the way to dying.

A kid born today will turn 65 in 2089. Or will they? Natural life expectancy in the US today would put a kid born today living until 2090 or 2100, but most kids born today aren't going to make it that far. If you have a kid right now, you're pretty much accepting (whether you know it or not) that the life you create will suffer and probably die of disease, climate disaster, starvation, or violence years if not decades before their time. But if they do turn 65, they will look out at a world that is in the midst of a transition into a new climate and atmospheric regime under which industrial civilization may not be possible anymore - and the billions of lives still relying on that civilization may not be possible either. Everything they ever knew, the places, the people, the food, the music, will be coming to a series of shockingly abrupt ends around them by then. After a lifetime of struggle just to survive, they will face a world not just in decline but in total collapse.

And all through this time, they will face a society that won't (and can't) come to terms with the situation and try do better. A high-energy capitalistic political economy is not compatible with the kind of change needed to even make an attempt at staving off the disaster. "Doing better" enough to prevent the onrushing disaster isn't really possible at all at this point, but it would provide a nice sense of unity and purpose which goes a long way toward making suffering and struggle tolerable. But kids born now won't have that. They'll have a collapsing neoliberal demon society that will never, ever stop lying to its members en masse as long as the organs that produce the lies continue to function. They'll be lied to, silenced, propagandized, and have any effort they make undermined at every turn. They'll see the homeless murdered and be told first that it never happened and then that it was a necessary evil and finally that it was Good Actually. They'll face the collapse of their material circumstances and be shouted down that actually everything's going well and you shouldn't ask for better. And that's just the kind of poo poo that'll happen in the developed world; they'll still be seeing news about mass death in poor equatorial countries that will dwarf anything any human has ever seen. Whole cities of people who died in freak weather events in a matter of hours or days, whole countries starving to death in a matter of weeks by the end of the century. And then right after seeing that, they'll hear about how net zero is right around the corner - or even that it's already been achieved and everything is great and you're a doomer if you think otherwise. They'll be jailed if they say genocide is bad. They'll be shot if they protest about it.

So I'm not having a kid because while my life is still livable and will be for a while, they would have only a distant memory of that kind of life to taunt them as they descend into hell.

Karach posted:

deep ag, what is that, like potatoes?

silicone thrills posted:

This is probably a little too disconnected / conspiracy but part of watching the ethnic cleansing/genocide in palestine has made me wonder if its all apart of a test to see how much death in the global south people will ignore in order for the global north to keep their treats.

silicone thrills posted:

This is probably a little too disconnected / conspiracy but part of watching the ethnic cleansing/genocide in palestine has made me wonder if its all apart of a test to see how much death in the global south people will ignore in order for the global north to keep their treats.