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It's at least not the worst unwinnable boss fight I've ever played, though it was exceptionally tedious in my first successful game because my PC was very well built for combat and Minagho struggled to even hit her, leading to a long period of waiting out whiff after whiff after whiff until Minagho could actually land a hit.  Vargatron posted:Irabeth and Avenia are the best couple in the game! I tend to love a well-told romance in video games, and yeah they're pretty great. Especially noteworthy since most of the cast of companions in Wrath either suffer from incompatible sexual orientation, actively despise one another (you have to pull some very particular and extreme strings to get the ending where Lann and Wenduag marry), or are outright asexual and aromantic, so there's no one in your immediate crew getting together.
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Feb 24, 2024 22:39
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My preference on an unwinnable boss fight is that well if you do manage to win it, you get some sort of bonus rewards, a bit of dialogue, and then dunked on per the story's needs. The extra loot and acknowledgement makes it not feel like you should have just stood there with a finger in the nose.
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Feb 24, 2024 23:08
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CommissarMega posted:Honestly, I wish there were couples like that in your PC group; two people who were genuinely devoted to each other, and while they can be friendly with the PC, there's nothing sexual that's gonna happen between them (looking askance at you, Octavia and Regongar). God, yes. I am tired of "every NPC in the party immediately falls in love and/or wants to have sex with PC" (looking at you Baldur's Gate 3). For once I want them to fall in love with each other and still being friends with PC.
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Feb 24, 2024 23:17
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Personally, what really gets my goat with unwinnable boss fights is when you still need to 'win' a fight designed to be challenging but then the boss yells ENOUGH! and then you lose in the cutscene, but you also just plain lose and have to start over if you dare lose before the appointed moment. Looking at you, Final Fantasy 14. And especially don't insult my intelligence and waste my time if you send me into a fight with the dude all over the marketing for the game when the story has clearly just begun. And especially especially don't then make me do it again two levels later when the story is clearly nowhere near over, playing out exactly the same way to exactly the same result. Minagho wasn't in any of the marketing and at least it doesn't matter what you do, but I tend to dislike this particular one because while it's clearly meant to introduce Minagho as a recurring adversary, she's coming hot on the heels of three in the prologue (Deskari, Savamelekh, and Wenduag) and I'm inclined to think Minagho could have shared Savamelekh's space or some such. Oh well. None of the villains in this game impress me, to be honest.
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Feb 24, 2024 23:21
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Honestly, in general with this sort of fight, they should probably just have the boss pull out the Sword of Plot and execute a Slice of Inevitability move that blows the whole party away on turn one so that everyone knows what's up and you can just get on with it. Or, if you really must give the players the ability to win but still lose, have someone else come in at the end and save the boss rather than have them stick around at 1 HP for twenty minutes until they manage to win.
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Feb 24, 2024 23:40
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Yeah, I took a pretty quick look at her stats in Core and thought, "Oh, that's... not gonna happen, is it?" As for characterization, she's a fun scenery chewing ham and has a bit of nuance that shows through your encounters with her. Her VA is clearly having a grand time, too. In general, I don't mind "must lose" boss encounters, especially if they are someone you later beat to illustrate progress. She outclasses you so hard in this encounter that it's usually not a very long fight either. I do dislike the "Enough!" and cutscene loss, though.
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Feb 25, 2024 00:03
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So, bit of funny that happened on my latest end of Prologue fight. I had characters in Melee with Minagho, so she ended up First Turn casting Fireball into Melee and killing most of her own side. Cutscene ensued right after.
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Feb 25, 2024 00:23
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The unwinnable "fight" against Deskari was done just right. 10/10 would behold again.
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Feb 25, 2024 00:49
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ChaosStar0 posted:So, bit of funny that happened on my latest end of Prologue fight. I had characters in Melee with Minagho, so she ended up First Turn casting Fireball into Melee and killing most of her own side. Cutscene ensued right after. DemonicTactics.txt
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Feb 25, 2024 01:05
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ChaosStar0 posted:So, bit of funny that happened on my latest end of Prologue fight. I had characters in Melee with Minagho, so she ended up First Turn casting Fireball into Melee and killing most of her own side. Cutscene ensued right after. I mean, she's got some random cultist on her side. It's not like she gives a single poo poo about them. Anyways, she's something like a level 28 character here (Lilitiu's base hit dice plus a bunch of class levels - Witch if I recall correctly). You're level 2. Your new buddies (Irabeth and Staunton) are like level 7. It not being scripted is nice to show just what the massive disparity in power between you actually is in a tactile way.
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Feb 25, 2024 01:32
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Cythereal posted:Personally, what really gets my goat with unwinnable boss fights is when you still need to 'win' a fight designed to be challenging but then the boss yells ENOUGH! and then you lose in the cutscene, but you also just plain lose and have to start over if you dare lose before the appointed moment. Looking at you, Final Fantasy 14. And especially don't insult my intelligence and waste my time if you send me into a fight with the dude all over the marketing for the game when the story has clearly just begun. And especially especially don't then make me do it again two levels later when the story is clearly nowhere near over, playing out exactly the same way to exactly the same result. Yes, I didn't liked Zenos fights too.
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Feb 25, 2024 02:20
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Lord Koth posted:I mean, she's got some random cultist on her side. It's not like she gives a single poo poo about them. I think some casting classes stack with her Lilitu powers, so she is not nearly that powerful, she is only a bit stronger than a normal Lilitu. Which to be fair is still very powerful as Lilitu’s are one of the strongest demons. With only 4 normal Demons being superior to them. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Feb 25, 2024 |
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Feb 25, 2024 03:08
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MonsterEnvy posted:I think some casting classes stack with her Lilitu powers, so she is not nearly that powerful, she is only a bit stronger than a normal Lilitu. It gives her a lot of defense to chew through than a pure caster, but not a lot more offense. Still more than enough to Chaos Dunk us into Chapter One, though.
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Feb 25, 2024 04:08
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AtomikKrab posted:My preference on an unwinnable boss fight is that well if you do manage to win it, you get some sort of bonus rewards, a bit of dialogue, and then dunked on per the story's needs. The extra loot and acknowledgement makes it not feel like you should have just stood there with a finger in the nose. Gades in Lufia 2 is a great example of this.
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Feb 25, 2024 14:27
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Torrannor posted:Gades in Lufia 2 is a great example of this. This is exactly the boss I was thinking of, literally one of the games I played as a small child, and it hit just right.
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Feb 25, 2024 14:31
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Interesting discovery. I haven't played since the free Enhanced Edition update, and they added the ability to kick anyone out of the party as soon as you finish the prologue. As such I have decided to not kick Cammy out yet. Not letting her skedaddle scot-free.
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Feb 25, 2024 16:19
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This LP has inspired me to start playing again, and I decided to roll up an Alchemist. My god is it fun to chuck bombs, alchemist's fire, acid, and holy water everywhere.
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Feb 25, 2024 22:54
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On Higher Ground Prepare for     "What happened?" "We couldn't stand up to the demoness. Her spells were too strong!" (Irabeth punches her fist into her palm.) "It's all right, we'll handle it somehow... You blacked out, but Staunton and I managed to get you here, to the Defender's Heart. It used to be a tavern, but now it's our headquarters. We're gathering our forces here, and we're preparing to strike back!" "I found a cultist dispatch in the dungeons. It seems they're holed up in the Tower of Estrod." "Demons have been filling Kenabres with their spies and infiltrators for a long time. Unfortunately, I don't have enough people to attack the place right now. At least not blindly. I'd be grateful if you snuck in there and scouted out the situation. But just scouting. Don't be a hero." "What's the situation in the city?"Welcome to Act 1, the battle for Kenabres. Objective one, investigate the Tower of Estrod.  "What do you plan to do next?" "You heard what that demon said. They're going to desecrate the Wardstone and blow up the whole barrier around the Worldwound. That would be an even worse disaster than the Worldwound's expansion before the Second Crusade. Not only Kenabres, but every city with a Wardstone will be destroyed, including the capital! We can't allow that, no matter what. We will retake it, even destroy it if we must. Iomedae's gift must not become a weapon of the Abyss!" "Can I help you in any way?" "First of all, we need to decide what to do with the stone once we get to it..." Irabeth lowers her voice almost to a whisper. "What I'm about to say is classified: a traveler came to the city recently — a blind elf calling himself the Storyteller. He insisted he be allowed to examine the Wardstone, and he raised the alarm when his study was finished. Even before the demon attack, he had found some damage or flaw in the stone... Prelate Hulrun dismissed his words as nonsense — borderline blasphemy. But between you and me, the Prelate's opinion isn't worth much. I think the Storyteller knew what he was talking about. We could use his advice right now — if only we knew where he was! Hmm... I remember the Storyteller spent a lot of time talking to Staunton, a dwarf from my unit. You saw him during the demon attack. The elf asked him about the history of the crusades. Maybe the Storyteller told Staunton something about where we could find him if anything happened. There's another problem — after the attack, the demons began to gather their forces at the Gray Garrison. It will be even harder to take them with a head-on assault — but I once heard soldiers talking about a secret entrance to the garrison. Trouble is, I have no idea where to look for it. While you explore the city, please keep your eyes open — in case you find something we can use." (The half-orc smiles at you encouragingly.)Objective two, find the Storyteller and find out what he knows. Objective three, find the secret route into the Gray Garrison.  "Everything is clear." "May the goddess help you. We're still fighting, which means that Kenabres still hasn't fallen. If you come across any groups in the city that can fight, send them here to the Defender's Heart. We'll need every fighter we can muster for the final assault. One more thing. If you're in the area, check out this address. It's our house, mine and Anevia's... Well, it was our house. If the building is still standing, open the hidden compartment in the kitchen. It's filled with supplies for a rainy day. You can take whatever you find. You have more need of it."Objective four, find as much help as possible. One extra bit of dialogue of note: if you pry into Irabeth's history and personal life, which I've chosen to not do for RP reasons, Irabeth brings up the PC's race when explaining the prejudice she's faced as a half-orc. Fortunately I have the game's dialogue script on hand and they're all together! quote:
 The gang has also hit level 3! Yua Level 3: +1 Bard (Bard 3) Class Feature: Inspire Competence Skills: +1 Perception, +1 Persuasion, +1 Knowledge World, +1 Knowledge Arcana, +1 Trickery, +1 Mobility Feat: Precise Shot Spell: Hideous Laughter Yua gets her second odd-level skill point, which I put into Mobility. She also picks up Precise Shot to waive the penalty for shooting at foes engaged in melee, and Hideous Laughter as another crowd control skill. Inspire Competence gives Yua a non-combat utility to boost the party at skill checks should that be needed.  Lann Level 3: +1 Demonslayer (Zen Archer 1, Demonslayer 2) Class Features: Archery Style (Precise Shot) Skills: +1 Athletics, +1 Mobility, +1 Lore Nature, +1 Stealth Feat: Weapon Focus (Longbow) Lann gets a second level of Demonslayer, letting him as a ranger choose a combat style to specialize in to give him a suite of free feats. I pick Archery, and so he picks up Precise Shot like Yua, and spend his actual feat on Weapon Focus (Longbow) to give him an innate +1 attack bonus with longbows. Weapon Focus is never an exciting feat but it's always useful at the start of the game and is a prerequisite to a lot of much more interesting feats down the line. Longbows are an excellent choice of weapon for an archer character.  Camellia Level 3: +1 Spirit Slayer (Spirit Slayer 3) Skills: +1 Mobility, +1 Trickery Feat: Weapon Focus (Rapier) Cammy gets weapon focus with her primary weapon for the same reason.  Seelah Level 3: +1 Paladin (Paladin 3) Class Features: Aura of Courage, Divine Health, Mercy - Fatigued Skills: +1 Lore Religion, +1 Persuasion Feat: Weapon Focus (Longsword) Seelah is a bit more interesting to talk about thanks to her new class features. Seelah now projects an aura to give the party a bonus on saves vs fear effects, is immune to a host of conditions like disease and nausea, and can use her innate healing ability to also remove the fatigued condition.  Unfortunately, now's as good a time as any to discuss how Wrath handles alignment. I suspect no one who reads this needs any introduction to DnD's two-axis alignment system of good vs evil, law vs chaos. It is not a system I have any fondness for, and Wrath somehow manages to have the worst implementation of alignment I've ever seen in a game (I'm told that Kingmaker is even worse, but I haven't played that). You see, those dots show Yua's alignment dialogue options: the [Good] and [Lawful] and [Chaotic] tags you've seen in updates. Taking one of these dialogue options moves your alignment one point in the relevant direction. Should your choices take you out of your pie slice, your alignment changes. This means that you need to keep an eye on your alignment in every mythic path but one we won't discuss further for a very long time, because it is entirely possible to fail out of a mythic path and not finish your chosen story if your choices don't match. Some classes, most famously paladin (required to be Lawful Good) also have alignment requirements, and falling out of the required alignment loses you all of your class powers. This might not sound so bad, but there's a wrinkle: if you cap out on your points in one direction, bringing you to the outer rim of the Good/Evil/Law/Chaos slice, further points in that direction will slide you into the center, away from the opposing axis. If you are lawful good, this means you will fall if you do too many good deeds. Let me say that again. A paladin in Wrath will fall if they do too many good deeds. To make this even more absurd and poorly conceived, most alignment choices are generally designed to be chosen regardless of the other half of your alignment. Paladins, at least how I play them, have a real problem with this because [Lawful] options often read like [Lawful Neutral] or [Lawful Evil] to me. But nope, gotta fill your hardass quota if you want to stay a divine force of righteousness, even your loving deity is Neutral Good! I like Wrath of the Righteous in general. I wouldn't be doing this LP if I didn't. But my God there are some bad and just baffling design decisions in this game, and this right here is one of the two biggest problems I have with the game and the number one reason I've never gotten a paladin out of Act 1 in this game.  Anywho, there's this random pet mini dragon in the chest at the foot of Yua's bed.   "So, here's the first, and most important thing. Beth gave you a crucial mission, I get that, and I know you'll get the job done — I saw you in action. But here's the rub: by sending you out on an errand, we're weakening our defenses here. If they come at us while you're gone, I dunno if we'll be able to fight 'em off." "Do you want me to stay here and guard the tavern?" "You what? No! Your task is far too important. You can't just hole up here all cozy like, waiting for the demons to knock on the door: we need to take the fight to them! But if those freaks try to make a move on this place, Beth will send a runner to get you. If that happens, you leg it back here, all right? 'Cause if you don't, you'll be coming back to an ash pile. Got it?" "Everything seems clear so far. What else do you wish to discuss?" "So, the rift that damned beetle left with its scythe? Yeah, well it cut the city into two, and it's kinda difficult to get across. My scouts tell me there's a halfway decent place to set up a crossing in Market Square, not that any of them tried it to make sure! But if you've got a mind to go across, and I think you're gonna have to eventually, you might wanna give the square a once-over." "Thanks for the warning. See you later." "Later. Watch yourself out there."So yeah, Act 1 is on a time limit. Three days, to be precise. The time limit actually isn't as strict as you might think, as long as you're judicious about resting it's very doable to complete Act 1 within three days. Nor is it a game over if you take too long, it just triggers a special event that I might show off for a bonus update if I feel like it. As for the market square, Anevia's heads up is a good one. There's a lot of stuff there to discover, including a new party member and a mythic path! In the meantime, there's a lot of people to talk to here.  "I need to talk to the elf who calls himself the Storyteller. Do you know where I can find him?" "The Storyteller? Hmm..." (Staunton strokes his beard in thought.) "A strange old fellow, that one. He used to sit with me for hours, asking about all sorts of things... He never offered judgment or comfort, he just listened. At first, I wanted him and his questions as far away from me as possible, but later I realized that talking to him did ease my burden a little. I hope he is alive and well. He's completely blind, and feeble too, so if he's alone in the city... well, you probably know what that means. I do know one place he might be. Look for him in the Blackwing. It's a library — here, I'll show you where it is on the map. I don't know what use a library is to a blind elf, but he loved the place. He would sit there day and night." "So, I'm new to this part of Golarion. What do they say about you?" "They say I'm a traitor, as bad as Areelu Vorlesh. That I'm a disgrace, even among the ranks of the Condemned. That Queen Galfrey should never have spared me. That I belong on the gallows." "Like I said, I'm new. I want to understand what's happened. Why do they hate you so much?"So if you've noticed the words in purple in dialogue, mousing over them fills you in on a bit of lore about the world. There's two important names Staunton drops here. Areelu Voresh is a mad wizard of legend, widely blamed for creating the Worldwound in the first place. The Condemned are a penal battalion of the Crusade, sent to find atonement in death. Yeah, there's a reason it's very easy, if you're on a relevant path, to turn the Crusade into a force for evil.  "I was tried. They wanted to execute me, and rightly so, but the Queen intervened. She said that I should live and fight in order to undo what I had done. So that's how I live... Decade after decade, fighting in the Condemned." (The dwarf shrugs.) "As you can see, I have fixed nothing, and I have earned no one's forgiveness. Are you going to spit in my face too? It wouldn't surprise me." "I'm not like that. I hope you find forgiveness." "Thank you. From the depths of my soul, I thank you. But I haven't had hope for a long, long time." "So many years in the Condemned... Surely you have paid your penance by now?" "That's not up to me to decide. My life is in the Queen's hands." (He falls silent for a moment, and then in a trembling voice, he adds,) "The Condemned isn't the worst part. All these years I have prayed to Torag for forgiveness. Countless times I've gone to his priests, countless times I've kneeled before his altar. If only the Father of Dwarvenkind would answer my prayers just once... Not to restore what I've lost, but just to tell me that I am still one of his children... But it seems he doesn't give a drat about me. What can I expect from mere mortals when my own god doesn't think I deserve redemption? Commander Tirabade seems to be the only person in the whole army who remembers that I'm a soldier and not a drudge. She has no qualms about taking me into battle. She's had some mud flung at her in the past, or so I hear, that's why she tries to keep an open mind about people. It's no surprise that she's the only one to hold onto her sense of reason in this farce!" "I... don't know what to say to that, but I'm needed elsewhere. Take care of yourself." "Go on, then. Maybe we'll see each other again someday." I feel really bad for Staunton, despite what he did. And unless you're on the Aeon path, who are uniquely equipped to help him, there just isn't anything you can do for Staunton.  "You're much more relaxed during combat. Your battle cries are... uninhibited." (She blushes slightly and lowers her eyes.) "So you've noticed? To be honest, I find it embarrassing. You see, being a shaman means having spirits of battle as my ever-present companions. In the heat of combat, they become rather... ah... vocal."You can also check in on your companions. Interestingly, Cammy's talk of serving spirits does seem to be legitimate on some level: she is a genuine divine spellcaster and enjoys a shaman's full suite of abilities. But yeah, this is the most suspicious of her you're allowed to be for the time being. You can kick her out of the party, but that would mean letting a serial killer go free. I swallow my distaste and keep her in the party. The only other things she'll tell you at the moment are that nobles have the right to do whatever they want to commoners, because they're nobles. And her amulet of undetectable alignment is making you ask questions already answered by her amulet of undetectable alignment. It's a shaman thing, shut up. And no, she has no reactions if you yourself happen to be playing a shaman.   (Horgus looks at you with unvarnished disapproval, his arms folded across his chest, his foot tapping impatiently.) "I have a job that would be perfect for someone like you. Naturally, I'll pay generously for your services." "What do you mean, 'a job for someone like me'?" "For an adventurer ready to sell their soul for booze, and then lie down drunk in the gutter. Or do you think you're somehow different? A traveling knight, perhaps, noble of heart but without a coin to your name? (Horgus sizes you up critically, then sighs and shrugs.) "You seem a reliable enough ally to me, and you did get me out of those mongrel caves. So why should I care what you do with my money once you've got it?" [Succeeded at a Perception check] (Horgus seems like one of those people who think the entire world owes them something. However, you hear notes of hysteria beneath his smug arrogance. It's as though he's really quite nervous but taking great pains to conceal it.) "So what does this job involve?"For now, Yua's skill at reading people is just shedding more light on Horgus' motives, but it can make a bigger difference in the future.  "I have little hope that my guards were able to hold the mansion during the attack, and I expect that the servants fled when they saw the demons. Only Abadar knows what's happened there since. Therefore, I would ask that you meet me at my mansion and guard me there until I complete my business. I already asked the local paladins for help, but they've no desire to set foot outside this tavern. drat cowards and traitors — that's what they are! Also, please, do take Camellia with you. I trust that girl more than the rest of your gang. She is of noble birth, after all." "What kind of reward are we talking about?" "A thousand gold coins. (Horgus replies without hesitation) "Deal." "Marvelous! Most excellent!" (Horgus's face relaxes, smoothing a few of the tense lines.) "I'll proceed to my mansion at once and wait for you there. Meanwhile you needn't worry — I know the city like the back of my hand. But do hurry, unless you want me to lower your reward."This is the first of our sidequests for Act 1.  [Lore (Religion) check passed] "The medallion you're wearing... that's a sacred symbol, isn't it? Are you a cleric of Cayden Cailean, then?" "I'm a tavern keeper. Best in the city. Best there's ever been. And I pray to the best god there is." "Show me what you have."If you're a dhampir you can figure out that this guy is indeed a vampire (and a vampire priest of the god of booze and adventure at that!). He gives you a glass of the special red, as it were, he keeps on hand for their kind.  He sells potions and various accessories, plus this. Wrath doesn't have a limited inventory size but does have party encumbrance, so the bag of holding will let the party carry more loot.  "What are you doing here?" "I only took my holy orders recently, so my god has only bestowed a little of his power upon me as yet. I'm sorry to say that the number of wounded fighters in this tavern is far beyond my power to heal. But there's a reason people say: 'Have faith in the gods, but look to yourself first!' I may not be able to help the wounded with magic, but I can at least cut up bandages." "Are you from around here?" "No. I was just passing through Kenabres. I was sailing down that old man of ours, the great Sellen River, to a village by the name of Chilly Creek. I happened to land in the city on the eve of the festival, and I'm ashamed to say I decided to stay for a day to enjoy myself. But I ended up staying in the city longer than I'd bargained for." "Where is Chilly Creek?" "It's a small fishing village. It's not even marked on some maps. But people do live there. What they don't have is a priest — they have no one to heal their wounds, no one to offer prayers for a good catch, no one to give their dead a dignified burial. And the Worldwound is a stone's throw away... So, I'll be setting sail for Chilly Creek, to serve my god and my people. Once we've held Kenabres, I'll be going there — if by the grace of the good gods we all survive this, you should come and visit me some time! You'll find the village here, on the bank of the river." (The priest marks Chilly Creek on your map.) "It's a pleasure meeting you. Good luck!"This unlocks a sidequest for later, for the time being we're stuck in Kenabres.   (Raising his eyes to meet yours, he says faintly,) "I am Forn Autumn Haze. At your service." (His pale lips are reddened by blood, but you see no signs of pain or fear in his gray eyes.) "Do you need help?" (After a brief pause, Forn says,) "It would be impolite to refuse such a direct and friendly offer." "What are you doing in Kenabres?" "I was hunting a fugitive — a Deskarite by the name of Kaylessa. It pains me to admit that there are heinous malefactors such as her among our noble kind. I managed to catch up to her in Kenabres, and I wounded her. Then demons appeared and the city was engulfed in flames. I was injured in the battle that ensued and couldn't free her soul from its service to her dark masters." (He expresses no anger or hatred as he speaks, only compassionate sorrow.) "I'm sorry for your misfortune. I hope things will turn out differently next time."Dialogue with this guy changes substantially if you're an elf.  "I wish to aid you in your hunt." (Forn covers his eyes wearily.) "I thank you, but this is my mission, and I'm used to facing all manner of terrors on my own. I do appreciate your willingness to help. If you happen to meet Kaylessa — take caution. She has turned many innocent souls to the path of evil, and darkness has rewarded her with many gifts. Her appearance alone will tell you that — it is warped. The agate skin, the malicious stare of her blood-red eyes, the bestial teeth... She's more monster than elf at this point." [Knowledge: World (18)] "What does this Kaylessa look like, again?" [Succeeded!] "Her skin is dark, her hair preternaturally white. Her red eyes can see perfectly in the dark, which, to my dismay, I've come to know from experience. But bright light causes her kind pain — I used an alchemical powder that explodes in a dazzling flash, and she cried out as if I had stabbed her. Good luck." (It appears that this woman is a drow — her race is also known as dark or cavern elves. They are rarely seen on the surface, so it is surprising to encounter her here.)This is another sidequest. Yup, everyone's ?favorite? 'dark skin is literally a divine curse for being evil' fantasy race, overlapping with the forbidden horny, is in this game!  "What do you think of life on the surface? It must be very different from life underground." "Of course! As far as living conditions, the surface is definitely a better place to be. It's easier to get good food and water, not to mention build a house, and even grow a few things. In older, well-established settlements, you don't have to deal with anything scarier than rats, or maybe foxes stealing chickens. As for the kind of lives you have... I heard a story about demon worshipers abducting a whole family and sacrificing them one by one while the others watched. But there were some brave crusader knights nearby, and they killed the villains and saved everyone. And I heard another story — a young blacksmith lost his arm in a fire, couldn't work to feed his wife and baby. They tried their best, and lived from hand to mouth, but they were still destitute. In the end, the desperate blacksmith robbed a traveler one night on the road. But there were some brave crusader knights nearby, and they caught the robber and threw him in prison. Not long after, his wife smothered their baby and hanged herself. Up here, the same person can proudly say he's protecting the innocent from demons, and then look the other way while the same innocent starves just because they were born into a poor family. Queen Galfrey prolongs her life with sun orchid elixirs that cost enough to feed an entire city. Back in our caves, everyone is equally poor, and if one person starves, the whole tribe starves. We don't abandon our own in times of trouble. That's the power of a tribe. The laws of the surface are made so that some get everything and others get nothing. I might just be a naive fool from the caves, but I don't understand how it's possible to have so much more and share so much less. Anyway, look who I'm talking to. You must know life on the surface much better than I do." "Uh... I'm glad you're not having any trouble with the sun or sky, Lann."Welcome to Lann as a member of the party! And the Party, it seems.  This guy over here has nothing interesting to say but he sells scrolls and potions.  "Irabeth said your friend Jannah Aldori is missing. Do you know where we should look for her?" "Irabeth is worried about her fighters. I understand that. I wanted to look for Jannah myself, so I didn't distract you. But since you're in this too, I could use some help. Jannah and I met in Kenabres a few days ago and just hit it off. We went drinking together. We went to that unforgettable celebration together too, but we got separated in the crowd. So we should start looking from the main square — that's where I last saw her." (Seelah frowns.) "Jannah's a good fighter, even if she is green. She couldn't have become an Aldori otherwise. I hope that means she's all right." "Is fighting demons all you want? Or are you looking for something more?" "How about covering myself in glory and becoming the hero of a hundred ballads? Or at least a dozen — if they're lively ones." (Seelah's eyes shine cheerfully.) "Anyway, to be more serious... The area around the Worldwound is the best place for a paladin who wishes to defend the weak and serve good. Being part of the crusade is reward enough for me. But there's something that worries me. I don't want to sound like I'm criticizing my brothers in arms. But the Eagle Watch and the other orders are focused on just one aim — the war against the Worldwound. That's why they can sometimes overlook the smaller things — ordinary misfortunes, you know. I always liked being a wandering knight because any moment I could get up and go help a poor ratfolk whose family had been kidnapped. Or an old woman whose favorite dog had gone missing. So here's my answer — I don't have some big, important goal, but I'll be happy to help those who need it — a little bit here and there." "Thank you for speaking with me. Until next time." (Seelah smiles) "See you!"This right here is why Seelah is my favorite paladin in any Dungeons and Dragons game I've ever played.   "I'm the superior officer among Pathfinders in this region of Mendev. However, the Society is running almost no operations here right now. Besides me, there are almost no Pathfinders here. Actually, I'm only stuck here because of an old feud with a demon worshiper known as the Spinner of Nightmares. I've had to work alone, without the support of the Society. But I've made a lot of acquaintances among the local mercenaries and daring fighters. If you need any good fighters for an honest cause, talk to me."Hilor here is the representative of the local equivalent of the Forgotten Realms' Harpers, a generic band of do-gooders for the PCs to be a part of. He offers some very interesting services I'll go into in the future but are completely optional.  "Spinner of Nightmares' cloak as she dodged the shot, laughing. Hilor let out a bellow, pouring all his despair and hatred into the shout, dashed forward, and, slipping on the roof, tumbled to his knees. Gripping a jagged roof tile with his last remaining strength, the venture-captain swallowed his pain and raised his head - only to watch his daughter's abductor be swept away on a black wind. "I will find you, Spinner of Nightmares!" Hilor's shout seemed to carry far and wide across Mendev, "I'll find you and tear out your duplicitous heart!"I think this is part of a sidequest involving Hilor that I've never figured out.   "Ha ha ha, got you again! How many times is that today?" "Take your jokes and shove em, tiefling!" "Whoa, easy there, chief! Don't hit me!"This scene plays if you go down into the basement.  Before I talk with the tiefling, I flip the levers in this order from left to right: up, down, down.  The reward is a secret chamber with this letter and a headband that gives a +2 Charisma bonus, which I immediately slap on Yua.  "Stop bothering the decent people in here, Woljiff, or I'll knock your teeth out." "What's it to you, Delvan Dum-Dum? You were told to guard me, and I'm not stoppin' you, but no one told me I had to shut my trap!" "Who are you?" "Woljif. Woljif Jefto. I deal in useful things. I can get you whatever you want, anything, but there's just one problem..." (The tiefling rattles his chains and gives you a meaningful look.) "What do you want from me?" "I'll lay it out for you: simple job, thirty minutes tops, we go someplace, talk to someone, and in return, whatever you want, I'll get it for you! Some extra rations? No problem! Armor, weapons, scrolls, you name it — it's as good as yours. If you need my help with something, whistle and I'll be there. I'm handy enough with knives too, and even my magic know-how isn't too shabby!" "Ha ha, what a load of guff! If you were good at magic, you wouldn't be stuck here now, would you?" "Don't you listen to him, chief, he'd find fault with the queen herself. I'll be useful to have in battle and I'll sell whatever you want at a reasonable price. It's your lucky day, you won't meet another gem like me in Kenabres!" "Why are you in chains?" "Does it really matter? Don't get hung up on the past, chief, don't look to the future — live in the here and now!" "He was caught stealing." "So how can I free you?"In case his portrait doesn't give it away, Woljiff here is an optional party member. He also disappears if you run out the three days on the clock or finish Act 1. Some people really do never check the basement and meet him.  "All right, I'll talk to Irabeth about your situation." (Woljif grins.) "I knew I could count on you! Knew it the moment I laid eyes on you." Surprisingly enough I never particularly regretted this. "We have nowhere else to keep him apart from the Defender's Heart, but that's hardly a prison. Woljif knows it, too — he's been begging us for days to let him go free or have someone vouch for him. He's already asked you to put in a good word for him, hasn't he?" (Irabeth squints at you thoughtfully, then shrugs.) "If you want to recruit Woljif and put him to good use — go ahead and take him off our guard's hands. We can ill afford to let a soldier spend their days watching over a middling thief. I hope the tiefling proves useful, should you decide to take him along."A tiefling PC gets extra dialogue with Woljiff a lot, and here with Irabeth she clarifies to a tiefling PC that it's Woljiff's proven criminal behavior she has a problem with, not his being a tiefling.  "I talked to Irabeth, and I've decided to make you part of my troop. We'll see how it goes." (Woljif leaps to his feet and gleefully rubs his hands.) "Ha! You must be a smooth talker! Come on, Delvan, get these bracelets of yours off me! I'm going free!" "You're sure to regret this. This tiefling will fleece you for everything you've got, mark my words." "You're a bitter little man, Delvan. Petty and mean. You can't even be happy for me, can you? I pity you. I'll leave you alone with your sad little soul. So long! (Woljif is freed from his shackles and rubs his chafed wrists.) "And now, chief, straight down to business." (He glances around, making sure that no one is listening in.) "You see, I'm one of those guys that people around here call 'thieflings.' We just call ourselves the Family. After we knocked over that shop and I got stuck here in the Defender's Heart, a little bird told me that Big Sister Kerismei wanted to see me, that she had some questions to ask me. You following? Now she won't be asking me questions like: 'Woljif, how'd you manage to get out of this one?' or 'Woljif, you're so thin, didn't they feed you?' No, something serious has gone down, and I just know they want to try to pin something on me, I can feel it in my tail. So I knew right away that I couldn't go alone. You turned up just in time, chief. You don't need to do anything when we get there, just stand behind me and look mean, and I'll handle the rest. Somehow. Let's go, I'll show you the way."This is another sidequest.  Character Overview: Woljiff I don't steal! I encourage people to share with the poor, defenseless tieflings of the world, starting with me! Chaotic Neutral Rogue (Eldritch Scoundrel) of Calistria Romance: No Can I Fix Him: Yes Incompatible Paths: (spoiler) Background: Pickpocket (add Trickery and Stealth as class skills, +1 bonus if already class skills, +2 to initiative checks) Woljiff is our first optional party member, and thus not as directly tied to the main plot or goings-on as most. Woljiff is, for the most part, exactly what he seems to be at first brush: a clever, chatty thief with no particular goals, principles, or morals of any kind. However, he's remarkably intelligent and has a surprising amount of insight if you take him along. Woljiff's perspective on events is largely that of the true commoner, he's no crusader or wizard or other fancy sort, he's just a guy who grew up on the streets and is now officially caught up in events. He may be irreverent and plain-spoken, but he brings a perspective few characters in Yua's company have, and he's really quite clever when he puts his mind to it. I like Woljiff, he's not a particularly deep character but he's less irritating than some characters of his ilk. Mechanically, he's the primary rogue on the cast, and effectively that DnD video game favorite, a thief/mage. Woljiff is an effective glass cannon melee fighter and a capable secondary mage, even if there's another class and kit you can give him levels in that is flatly superior to his starting class. Alas, Yua already does just about everything Woljiff does except favoring the bow instead, so Woljiff will be heading for the bench.  "Commander, look what we got here!" "Are you two mad? Whatever possessed you to steal the gem golem from the Tower of Estrod museum?!" "We didn't steal nothing, Commander! We saw some looters dragging it down the street and recaptured it! Now this shiny fella is our trophy by right!" "That 'shiny fella' belongs to the treasury. The inlay alone is worth more than a castle! Oh, I really don't like the idea of leaving this thing unattended. Joran! See to it that no one lays a finger on this golem or plucks out a single gem. And the same goes for you two. Your new mission is to guard this 'shiny fella,' as you called it. Somehow, walking out the door to see a giant golem made of gold and gems just made me think for a moment that that was unusual before carrying on. It would take a while for my sense of the strange to properly return after the shocks I'd given it the previous day. "What are you?" "I am a prestidigipainter golem. Many millennia ago, I was built by Azlanti clerics of Shelyn, the goddess of beauty, to make the world a better place. In my joyful service, I have visited many lands, and for the past few centuries, I have resided at the Temple of the Sunrise Chrysanthemums in Tian Xia. But then the good clerics saw fit to offer me as a gift to the Mendevian crusaders so that you could share in the beauty I can create." "Well, at least I'm not the only one to make there way here from Tian Xia. Can you do anything useful?" "My creators granted me the ability to place illusions on various items. I can change their color and texture to make them more beautiful and appealing to the eye. Would you like me to cast an illusion over your armor to make it green? Green is a very pleasant color, and it would match your eyes!" "I, uh, have pressing business elsewhere. Farewell." "Happy to be of service! May Shelyn brighten and vivify your day!"Owlcat, can we get this golem as a companion? There's a couple more people to talk to before Yua heads out, but this update is long enough as it is.
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Feb 26, 2024 02:43
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Rorahusky posted:My god is it fun to chuck bombs, alchemist's fire, acid, and holy water everywhere. You have activated my neurons. I absolutely love being able to chuck random combat items in games. Smoke bombs, caltrops, alchemist fire, acid, holy water, metsubushi, poisons... I love them a lot. This is why I am continually frustrated by how limp-wristed most mundane combat items are in fantasy roleplaying games. 150 gold assassin poison should not have a 50/50 success chance against a perfectly normal human being DnD 5E! (Then again in 5E being poisoned gives you a disadvantage on all attack rolls and ability checks. So. You know. If that goes off you die.) Then again even in Pathfinder I thought alchemist fire did like, single-digit fire damage. I specifically remember making a character who was going to try and like, capture enemies for info or something? So I got him a net. I throw the net and discover that the DC to break out is a DC 10 Strength check. I understand they can't make them super busted or people will ignore them in favor of throwing bags of flour and jars of acid instead of using their class-given features. But at least make it so that they have some use at low-level play. Maybe give them some scaling or something. Edit: Whoops! Posted that right after the update. The Prestidigi-Golem is something I heard about, did a double take on, and then instantly fell in love with. This big, gaudy thing which is simultaneously very valuable, and very worthless. I don't have much to say about Woljiff, he seems like a neat fellow. Maybe a bit thin since he's not Main Character material but I like him glwgameplayer fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Feb 26, 2024 |
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Feb 26, 2024 02:54
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Cythereal posted:This right here is why Seelah is my favorite paladin in any Dungeons and Dragons game I've ever played. Thank you! Not just you Cyth, but for this game to remember that being a Paladin isn't about riding around on a shining steed being a delivery system for Righteous Facepunching(tm). People see too much of the din that those sorts of characters make, that they forget that being a Pal comes first.
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Feb 26, 2024 04:23
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Cythereal posted:
I love this big golden goofus. I hope you remember to have a chat with it every so often, it has some funny dialog here and there. Asking how it got to the tavern is a good one, IIRC.
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Feb 26, 2024 04:39
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berryjon posted:Thank you! Not just you Cyth, but for this game to remember that being a Paladin isn't about riding around on a shining steed being a delivery system for Righteous Facepunching(tm). People see too much of the din that those sorts of characters make, that they forget that being a Pal comes first. To be fair, Seelah also rides around on a shining steed punching people righteously in the face. She's just got other interests too.
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Feb 26, 2024 04:45
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So is the golem how you can change your armor cosmetics?
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Feb 26, 2024 04:49
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So, Act 1 is not on a 3 day timer. The 3 day timer is before the Defender's Heart is attacked, which is very easy to defend. At least it was when I did it at Level 5. There are a lot of time based stuff that you lose access to after those three days though. After the attack on the Defender's Heart you can take as long as you want to finish Act 1. In fact the Time limit is gotten around by resting little and save scumming as it's triggered by resting in the Tavern after the limit hits or by a random encounter while traversing the World Map.
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Feb 26, 2024 06:36
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I would rate Kingmaker's alignment system about the same as Wrath's, personally. In that game though there are mixed alignment options. Like there can be lawful good options as opposed to strictly one or the other like in this game. I'm not too sure why that was changed. Owlcat's interpretation of alignment is highly...curious...at best (especially in regards to the Law/Chaos axis) and weirdly amplified in this game because of the mythic paths. Dropping out of your alignment by indulging mostly half of it is dumb but that's why god gave us scrolls of atonement. I'm glad most newer systems dropped alignment as a mechanic.
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Feb 26, 2024 07:59
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I tried to play a paladin in Kingmaker and their ridiculous mess of the alignment system was one of the reasons I gave up on the game. Run into a bandit camp where they have a prisoner? Well if you interacted with them you are locked into two options. Freeing them which pushed you towards neutral good or laughing at them which pushed you towards neutral evil. Those were the two ONLY allowed options. No motivations, no roleplaying, no thought or effort put into it at all. Just gently caress you if you keep doing non-lawful good things you won't be allowed to paladin anymore when the game doesn't even let you do those in the first place. Certainly didn't help that the so-called "lawful good" dialog options were a mixture of 'I AM THE LAW!!! *SLASH* *SLASH' and 'I ACHE FOR THE TASTE OF BLOOD RWAAAARGH!!!'. Absolutely no one involved with that had even bothered reading the game's own description of what lawful good represented. Definitely the type of people who think that paladins should be detecting evil on every peasant and smite the ones who light up, because nothing says lawful and good like randomly murdering people in the streets.  Seelah putting the pal in paladin is great. Poil fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Feb 26, 2024 |
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Feb 26, 2024 08:32
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There are mods that fix this dumb alignment stuff, right? I've heard that this game has a lot of mods, so surely at least one has tried.
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Feb 26, 2024 09:34
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I usually keep characters in the party long as I can, for the experience from their side quests, if nothing else. If you need advice on any game side quests, drop me a pm. I’ve completed most of them. For the Spinner of Nightmares one, just keep talking to Hillor in each Act of the first three and ask him about the Spinner. In Act 4 he’ll ask you to help him track down info on his nemesis and then you’ll get a quest for resolution in Act 5. Yes, there are mods that fix the alignment issues. There’s also a mod out there that unlocks a romance for Woljif. It has decent writing and works for both genders, but sadly you have to get pretty far into the game to start the process. achtungnight fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Feb 26, 2024 |
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Feb 26, 2024 09:42
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The last aborted LP of this game installed a mod that let benched party members participate in dialog as if they were in the active party. That's something I'd like to use in my hypothetical playthrough as well.
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Feb 26, 2024 09:46
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It's In The Blood (And Not Really): Tieflings Again, not much to say about the update here AP-wise, except that originally, we're supposed to reach the Defender's Heart after wandering around the ruins of Kenabres a bit. I have to admit that as someone who played the original AP for a bit, Owlcat did a bang-up job moving the Heart up a bit. It makes sense as a safehouse to have it introduced early, as opposed to finagle a way to have the players do a few sidequests in a demon-infested city without them either losing all their resources (especially if they're low-level casters) or significant DM fiat. From what I hear, most DMs have the players miraculously emerge near the Heart anyway, so Owlcat is merely continuing a fine tabletop decision That said, that isn't the AP's biggest sin by far, oh no. Anyway, so that this post is more substantial than a single anecdote, I'm gonna take the chance to expand on Pathfinder's take on the misunderstood loners and victims of prejudice whom everyone likes: Tieflings!  Behold, The products of a union between evil outsider and mortal (or rarely, mortal and other mortal with evil outsider heritage), Tieflings are usually held in contempt and fear because of said heritage- and in Pathfinder, this fear is sometimes founded. One of the dialogues that a tiefling PC can have with Woljif is whether or not he too ('he' being Woljif) can hear the call of his blood, to which Woljif replies in the affirmative, which he won't do for a PC of any other race. Because of this, planar scions (not just tieflings) really do tend to fall into stereotypes, though this does mean that anyone who doesn't tends to be more hardcore about it, having had a lifetime of experience denying the urges of their literal spiritual fabric.  Nualia Tobyn, an aasimar cleric of friggin' Lamashtu, Mother of Monsters. Not someone you'd bring home to meet your parents. But say you don't want to play 'just a Tiefling'. Maybe you have a certain, specific character concept in mind. Maybe your campaign has a theme, and a specific tiefling bloodline fits that theme. Maybe you just want to powergame without making it look too obvious by playing an aasimar (Editor's note: I'm guilty as charged  ). Or maybe you want to be the specialiest-most-snowflakiest special snowflake that ever special snowflaked. If you fall into any of these catagories, then boy howdy does Pathfinder have the options for you!Finally, please take note that while the sourcebook I'm pulling this info from (Blood of Fiends, if anyone's interested) presents the various tiefling personality traits as innate and absolute, I'm going to present them as stereotypes because there is no mechanical or RP reason to actually play tieflings the way they're 'supposed' to, outside of dramatic "You won't like it when I'm angry" RP moments; defy that blood all you want!  Faultspawn, because bitter snake people need love too. Asura blood encourages its scions to be extremely misotheistic- that is, hating everything to do with the gods and religion, organized and otherwise. Even religious faultspawn tend to take more pleasure than their fellow worshippers in the destruction of opposing belief systems and their works. Good-aligned faultspawn have to be careful in their relationships, since carelessness in watching their behaviour can lead them to become emotionally abusive. Physically, they have strong reptilian features and also tend towards androgyny. Indeed, a vast majority of faultspawn are born hermaphrodites, since their flavour of bitter hatred is not limited to mortal sexes or genders. Surprisingly (and fortunately) enough, faultspawn are also one kind of tiefling that has some kind of mainstream acceptance in Golarion- the nation of Rahadoum is basically r/atheism The Country™, and a whole group of people who are predisposed by their blood to hate religion can often live comfortable, accepting lives there. Statwise, they gain +2 Wis and Dex, -2 Int, can switch out their skill modifiers from the default +2 bonus to Bluff and Stealth for vanilla tieflings, to +2 Appraise and Knowledge: Local (Perception and Persuasion: Bluff in Wrath, which is much more useful), and switch their SLA from the vanilla tiefling's Darkness to Hideous Laughter (MUCH, MUCH better). On the tabletop, PC tieflings may trade out their SLA to roll on a special table to gain a random bonus, but in Wrath, they keep their Hideous Laughter SLA and a specific bonus, which for faultspawn is a +2 to resist enchantment spells (again, very useful in a game with succubi and incubi). In a tabletop game that allows a player to pick Racial Traits instead of/in addition to Campaign Traits, faultspawn have two choices. The first is Arms Master, which gives a -2 penalty on weapons you're not proficient with instead of -4, which is kind of meh since it'd be one tedious campaign if this came up enough to be useful. The other Racial Trait, Prayer Breaker, is quite good though- if a divine caster has to make a concentration check to avoid losing a spell thanks to an injury the faultspawn causes, the DC is increased by 2. Personally speaking this is my favourite race to play in Wrath, as I see the game's main theme as redemption, and an asura-spawn cleric or oracle of Sarenrae denying their heritage to do the right thing in both this life and the next no matter what is right up my alley in both RP and mechanics.  Grimspawn, because creepy skeleton people need love too. The scions of daemons (NOT demons, both are totally different), Grimspawn are fascinated by death, decay, sickness and other forms of gradual destruction. Unfortunatly for them, their blood isn't so pure as to protect them from those same ravages, so in order to distract themselves from the unfairness of the situation, grimspawn usually go around as disaster tourists, immersing themselves in the misery that their blood calls out for. If there isn't enough suffering to go around, weaker-willed grimspawn often have no problem making their own. Physically, regardless of their physical stats Grimspawn always appear weak, unhealthy and frail. They also tend to exhibit signs of illness, regardless of whether or not they're actually sick, such as feverish temperatures and deathly pale skin. Unsurprisingly, they're usually found arising from plague-ridden areas. In terms of stats, on the tabletop their modifiers are +2 Dex and Int, -2 Wis, maiking them great arcane casters, though the penalty to Wis (and thus, Will saves) makes me a little leery. Their alternate skill modifiers are +2 to Disable Device and Sleight of Hand (so they make great rogues too), and their alternate SLA choice is death knell, which can kill a near-death creature to give you +1d8 temporary hit points, +2 strength and +1 caster level (though you don't get access to more spells) for ten minutes per HD of the killed creature. As such, these guys make excellent Eldritch Scoundrels. Sadly, Wrath depowers them by replacing their SLA with Frigid Touch and Acid Resistance 5, which isn't really a replacement for Death Knell. Tabletop racial trait wise, they're all about the killing. Death's Deputy gives +2 damage to any attack that would put an opponent's HP to negative levels without this trait, while Soul Eater gives you half your character level in temporary hit points when you coup de grace an opponent. This doesn't stack, but it does come in handy sometimes.  Foulspawn, because gross neckbeards with no sense of decorum or even decency need love too. I guess? Like faultspawn, foulspawn oppose the gods and their strictures. Unlike faultspawn, they take it even further beyond by hating ANY kind of law or restriction on what they want to do. This is thanks to their descent from demodands, evil outsiders of towering arrogance and power born from evil titans of even more overbearing arrogance and power. Those who obey their blood tend to corrupt and debase all around them, not because of any affinity towards those concepts, but because they want to and to hell with anyone who tells them 'no'. Physically, Foulspawn tend towards the 'horribly unique'. Some are grotesquely tall, some are grossly fat- all have something that makes them stand out in a crowd, and not in a good way. And that's before getting into their horrible standards of personal hygeine and grooming- something tells me that someone at Paizo had a really bad experience at a their FLGS and decided to vent here Societally, while people like to think they're confined solely to places of strong evil energy on the outskirts of civilization, foulspawn emerge everywhere on Golarion, much to the consternaion of all.For their stats, they +2 Con and Wis, with -2 Int, and switch out their skill modifiers to Intimidate and Knowledge: Religion, making them fairly obvious frontline Cleric tanks. They get Bear's Endurance as an SLA in the tabletop and Cacaphonous Call in Wrath, whih is pretty solidly meh in my opinion. Wrath also gives them +1 attack bonus to Cleric, Paladins and Inquisitors, which is even more meh, regardless or not of whether you're playing an evil character. In terms of tabletop Racial Traits, God Scorn is quite good, giving a +1 save bonus vs. divine spells, while Repulsive is more situational, giving +1 on combat maneuvers to overrun and reposition enemies.  Pitborn, because bad girls and bad boys need love too, not that you need me to tell you that. The classic femmes and hommes fatales, pitborn are the spawn of demons, and the classic bad boys and girls. They're not good for you, having a love of breaking things (indeed, breaking things gives them a high, which means your prized china is never safe even when they're in a good mood) and a hot temper that never truly cools. This means that unless they relly push down their blood's call, an enmity with a pitborn will never truly die unless the pitborn or their hated thing/person does. On the upside, this makes is surprisingly easy to play a pitborn as a passionate Spanish lover stereotype. Physically, while they're 99.9% physically perfect in a tiefling sort of way, pitborn always have some small but obvious imperfection like heterochromia, mismatched ears, a shorter horn etc, and they can get reflexively pissed when someone points these out, leading to the kinds of vendettas detailed above. That said, some pitborn have even more obvious deformities like spines all along one side of the body or the head of a vestigial twin- though again, this somehow doesn't detract from their otherworldly beauty. Obviously most pitborn in Golarion are found in and around the Worldwound, but this is only in terms of proportions, Otherwise, their numbers elsewhere are generally on par with those of other tieflings- anywhere where a lonely caster class summons a demon for companionship (look mate, Occultist-archetype Arcanists can summon outsiders for 1 minute/level, you can't tell me there wasn't some hanky-panky going on), you're probably going to end up with a pitborn along the line. Statwise they're perfect tiefling paladins, gaining +2 Str and Cha in exchange for -2 Int, though I'd keep the default tiefling skill modifirs compared to the Pitborn's +2 to Disable Device and Perception. On their tabletop their SLA is Shatter (not very useful unless you fight a lot of low-level constructs). In Wrath they get Stone Call instead, along with a +2 racial bonus on all rolls to confirm critical hits, which is certainly more handy for a frontline fighter. Their tabletop Racial Traits are kinds so-so, with Deadly Rush giving them +2 to confirm crits on a charge, and Flair for Destruction giving them +1 damage against objects and constructs, which seems very campaign specific to me.  Hellspawn, because the best lawyers need love they don't have to pay for too. The children of devils, hellspawn tend towards being insanely ambitious and insanely conservative/conformist, because their minds feel most comfortable when dealing in established laws and rules. As such, hellspawn tend to find themselves a niche they can excel at and rarely venture ouside their comfort zone, though they do tend towards being socially manipulative. Physically speaking, hellspawn are the actual stereotype of how tieflings look like, what with the horns, dark red skin, pointy tail and the like. Odd eyes in colour and/or pupil shape are also common. Another reason they're the common 'look' for tieflings is thanks to the nation of Cheliax, where the Church of Asmodeus is the state religion. As such, this means that trysts with devils is common, and the products of such relationships are often discarded or used as shadowy pawns in the convuluted web of Chelish politics, or even rounded up and sold into slavery outside of Cheliax- devils are either patrons or servants in Cheliax, and having one as a lover, however temporarily, is seen as extremely gauche, with the resulting offspring having no official rights. In terms of stats, they make good frontline druids with a +2 Con and Wis bonus set, and their -2 being to Cha. Skillwise they can trade their defaults to Diplomacy and Sense Motive (Persuasion and Perception in Wrath). SLA-wise tabletop hellspawn get pyrotechnics (which is all right at lower levels) and Wrath hellspawn get Scorching Ray (which is a much better offensive spell). Wrath hellspawn also don't suffer a penalty to their Cha if they have levels in sorcerer or eldritch scion of an Infernal bloodline- but if you wanted to play those classes, why not pick a race with a Cha bonus anyway? It's not like you'd need Con or really Wis if you were playing one of those classes. Their tabletop Racial Traits are Blood Stalker, which gives them a +4 bonus to Survival checks to track an enemy they wounded in the past week, and Unearth Secrets, which gives them +2 to Sense Motive checks to try sense a target's dark secrets and vices. I admit, I really like that one!  Spitespawn, because hateful assholes need love too. Lots of therapy as well, come to think of it. In fact, let's just start with that bit. Spitespawn are descended from divs, hatefully destructive spirits thought to be the first evil genies. Answering the call of their blood curses a spitespawn to be as hateful as their ancestor, never able to feel true pleasure or happiness. The closest such being come to feeling those emotions is the smug satisfaction they get when driving others to self-destructive despair. While they mostly look like 'regular' tieflings, what truly sets spitespawn apart physically is their skin. In minor cases, this is merely unusual skin colur or patterns (e.g. splotches of colour, patches of fur etc), but more dramatic manifestations like dry skin that continually sheds dust or mobile bulges skittering under skin can also occur. Some physical manifestations can also affect their tongues. Because divs can pass themsleves off as genies, spitespawn often originate in nations where genies are popular like Vudra (Not!India) and Qadira (Not!Arabian Niiiights~). That said, they can be found anywhere, though a spitespawn born outside genie-rich areas is often descended from another spitespawn forced to leave their homeland due to their schemes and manipulations catching up with them. Their stats are +2 Dex and Cha, with -2 Int, making them great candidates for the Virtuous Bravo paladin archetype on tabletop and Charisma-based spellcasters. They can also switch out their bonuses to Bluff and Stealth for Diplomacy and Linguistics (Persuasion: Diplomacy and Knowledge: World in Wrath, which isn't bad either). Tabletop spitespawn get misdirection as an SLA, while Wrath spitespawn get Sound Burst- both useful, but in different circumstances. Wrath spitespawn also add +1 to the DC of any saving throws against enchantment spells that they cast, which is not bad at all! Their tabletop Racial Traits are Buried Anxiety, which gives a +2 to saves vs. fear unless a relatively common colour, object, sound or other such phenomena are present (yeah, this Trait sucks) and Shift the Blame, which gives +1 on Bluff and Diplomacy checks to convince someone that another person is at fault for your actions (now this I like!).  Shackleborn, because your weird ex working as a cashier down at the Walmart who's also the okay-ish lead singer in a struggling local band needs love too. Shackleborn are the descended from kytons (also called velstracs), BDSM-themed fiends from the Plane of Shadow who are obsessed with both giving and receiving pain. As such, their blood calls for shackleborn to be sadomasochists, and rarely kill their victims if they can help it. Instead, they prefer to enlighten their captives to the enlightenment of pain- and their blood is not keen on safewords. Physically, shackleborn are birthed already disigured, their skin covered in intricate lattices of scars, though many would see these as disfigurements and birth defects as opposed to otherworldy influences. As they grow up, shackleborn will gravitate towards more body modifications in both quantity and variety. In Golarion, while Cheliax has quite a few shackleborn (treated just like hellspawn are), in neighbouring Nidal where worship of the pain god Zon-Kuthon is common, shackleborn are seen as gifts from their patron god. For stats, shackleborn get +2 Con and Cha, with -2 Wis, making them even more like your weird ex working as a cashier down at the Walmart who's also the okay-ish lead singer in a struggling local band. In tabletop they can switch their skill bonuses to Escape Artist and Intimidate, while Wrath gives them Mobility and Persuasion: Intimidate, which has far fewer niche uses. Both versions also get Web (very handy) as an SLA, with Wrath shackleborn also gaining a +1 natural armor bonus to AC (probably thanks to all their piercing). Handy, given their stats making them good frontliners. On the tabletop, their Racial Traits are Chain Master which gives a +2 bonus to trip combat maneuvers with a spiked chain or whip, and Pain Artist, which gives +2 to Intimidate checks on physically helpless creatures. Both are decidedly so-so in my opinion.  Hungerseed, because brutish, randy drunkards need love too. Hopefully after they sober up. The children of oni, hungerseed share the extreme physical appetites of their forebearers. Food, drink, sex, fighting- their blood wants it all, wants it now, and wants it twice. They also tend towards bullying and intimidating people to get what they want, which means they have a hard time making friends but a an easy time making servants. Already tall and bulky when compared to other Medium-sized humanoid races, hungerseed have a tendency to grow even bigger when their emotions run hot- if you disliked them before, you sure as hell won't like them when they're angry. For those closely related to oni, they often also sport large mouth tusks, the better to rip and tear with. Though they're most often found in Tian Xia, hungerseed are found all over Golrion thanks to travelling bands of oni mercenaries making their way to Avistan. Hungerseed make for excellent frontliners due to their +2 Str and Wis, but their -2 Cha hampers their social skills a little. For some reason, their alternate skill modifiers on the tabletop are Intimidate (which works) and Disguise (which doesn't really, unless your campaign is heavy on the larger humanoids). Wrath changes this to a universal Persuasion bonus, which is much better. Their tabletop SLA is Alter Self, while Wrath gives them Invisibility, which is also much better. Finally, Wrath also gives them a +2 racial bonus to combat maneuver checks and combat maneuver defense, which can be kind of circumstantial. Racial Trait-wise, hungerseed can be Big Boned which gives them +1 to combat maneuvers to overrun people and a +1 CMD vs. trip attempts, and Superior Clutch which gives a +1 bonus to damage rolls when using weapons meant for larger-scale creatures. Big Boned can be nice, but Superior Clutch doesn't seem all that good to me.  The motherless, because even horrible things from beyond the ken of mortal minds need love too. Preferably with the lights off. These tieflings are perhaps the most  -inducing tieflings I've ever encountered. Born from qlippoth, murderous creatures from beyond reaity that hate all existence, their births always kill their unfortunate mothers as the blood overwhelms the immature baby's mind, causing the tiefling to literally tear its mother apart in its birth throes. Bereft of love and kindness from birth, the motherless are often extremely bitter and cynical, incapable of love, trust or affection. Both their blood and their experiences tell them that mortal hearts and souls are ruled by sin, and life is suffering- therefore, to end all suffering, one must end all life.Physically, they all have some degree of horrible deformity- insectoid features are common, as well as razor-sharp claws and gaping maws. The motherless are often the least-encountered kinds of tieflings around, since summoning a qlippoth is a hazardous prospect 99% of the time, and getting one to impregnate a mortal is also usually a recipe for utter disaster for all involved save the qlippoth. Even near the Worldwound such things are infrequent, as the qlippoth hate demons as much as they hate the rest of reality. Motherless are also good frontliners with their +2 Str and Wis, with a -2 Int being not so important. Their tabletop alternate skill bonuses are Escape Artist and Survival, with Wrath changing them to Mibility and Lore: Survival. Both tabletop and Wrath motherless gain Blur as an SLA (which only serves to emphasize their role as frontline tanks), and Wrath motherless also gain a free 1d6 bite attack in addition to their usual weapon attacks. IIRC this is also covered by the various bonuses that Monks get to unarmed strikes, so that's your character concept and class sorted, I guess. For tabletop players, their Racial Trait picks are the situational-yet-good-to-have Repel Sin which gives +2 on saves vs. spells and effects with the Evil descriptor, and Vile Trick which gives you +2 on dirty trick combat maneuvers.  Beastbrood, because cute catgirls and catboys need love too. And your checkbook. Born from rakshasa, beastbrood have a taste for the finest things in life. Like foulspawn, their blood fills them with arrogance, but instead of the foulspawn's tendency towards filth, beastbrood tend towards the classy. Even the lowest born beastbrood innately knows that they're descended from aristocrats, acting the part as much as they can- and thanks to their general attitude and good looks, they often get treated as such. Obviously, beastbrood tend to share animalistic features- slit pupils, fangs, a coat of fur. Even so, their tendency towards aristocratic behaviour and grooming means that instead of the revulsion other tieflings get, beastbrood often find themselves the object of positive attention- at least, outside the nation of Vudra, where rakshasa are so often the enemy of good folk, and beastbrood find it diffivcult to achieve and maintain the lifestyles they crave. It doesn't matter- a cat makes its home where it wants to, a tiger even more so. As befits their feline natures, beastbrood get +2 Dex and Cha, with a -2 Wis penalty; I'm not a fan of anything that reduces Will saves, but I think dex-based Paladins can get away with a beastbrood. They get Disguise and Sense Motive as alternate tabletop skill modifiers, which Wrath changes to Perception and Persuasion: Bluff. On the tabletop they get Detect Thoughts as their SLA, which Wrath changes to Blindness (a bit of a shame, IMO). For Racial Traits, beastbrood can pick between Bent Body which gives them a +2 CMD to any grapples, or Tough Skin which gives them a +1 bonus to AC when an opponent is trying to confirm a crit with a bludgeoning or slashing weapon. CommissarMega fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Feb 26, 2024 |
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Feb 26, 2024 11:04
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Solitair posted:There are mods that fix this dumb alignment stuff, right? I've heard that this game has a lot of mods, so surely at least one has tried. Solitair posted:The last aborted LP of this game installed a mod that let benched party members participate in dialog as if they were in the active party. That's something I'd like to use in my hypothetical playthrough as well. Both of these features are covered by the Toybox mod, which I consider absolutely essential personally. It's so good!
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Feb 26, 2024 11:06
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CommissarMega posted:
For the record, had LPer's choice won for race for the PC, she would have been a rakshasa-born tiefling, I've wanted to play a tiefling in Wrath for a while and their bonuses match up decently well with a kineticist.
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Feb 26, 2024 13:33
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A lot of the dialogues with alignment choices have [Say nothing.] as an option, I'm assuming so that you don't change your alignment if you don't want to. But yeah, you are right about the Lawful dialogue options being poo poo like "[Lawful]Execute the traitor!!".
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Feb 26, 2024 13:49
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Solitair posted:There are mods that fix this dumb alignment stuff, right? I've heard that this game has a lot of mods, so surely at least one has tried. There is one mod that does so, but unfortunately it has not been updated for the latest patch/DLC, so you get an infinite loading bug if you install it.
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Feb 26, 2024 14:30
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okay but it is an absolute crime that we cannot recruit the vampire priest of the party god to join the group
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Feb 26, 2024 14:31
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Black Robe posted:okay but it is an absolute crime that we cannot recruit the vampire priest of the party god to join the group In his defense, he's in his temple, serving his community. Adventuring priests are the weirdos who don't actually do anything religious but get ever greater power because gods know it's a great branding deal to be associated with big time heroes.
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Feb 26, 2024 14:36
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Cythereal posted:Paladins, at least how I play them, have a real problem with this because [Lawful] options often read like [Lawful Neutral] or [Lawful Evil] to me. Owlcat understanding of "lawful" is basically "fascist". Not going to talk about That One Character yet, but my "favourite" part was one encounter in Kingmaker where "I'm going to kill you because you are greenskin" dialogue option was chaotic evil and "I'm going to kill you because as greenskins you are inherently evil" was lawful good option. Then I found out they are Russian developers. Make of it what you will.
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Feb 26, 2024 14:41
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There is another one where the Lawful Good answer is roughly 'i don't like slavery, but that's your culture and law so I'll just return these slaves to you, evildoer' IIRC
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Feb 26, 2024 14:44
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Szarrukin posted:Owlcat understanding of "lawful" is basically "fascist". Not going to talk about That One Character yet, but my "favourite" part was one encounter in Kingmaker where "I'm going to kill you because you are greenskin" dialogue option was chaotic evil and "I'm going to kill you because as greenskins you are inherently evil" was lawful good option. Then I found out they are Russian developers. Make of it what you will. that particular problem has kind of been baked into the genre from minute one modern sensibilities interact with Gary Gygax writing glorified Conan fanfiction badly, and it is at its worst any time the question 'why is killing everyone in the dungeon and looting everything they have recognized by the divine as Good Actually' pops up
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Feb 26, 2024 14:52
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Sure, but Pathfinder games are one of the worst offenders when it comes to alignment in vidya games.
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Feb 26, 2024 14:56
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