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Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



Hedgehog Pie posted:

MGS1 is obviously a classic, but it can be really hard to revisit as someone who played MGS2 first. MGS2 is much more fluid and there are more options for espionage. Snake moves so slowly in MGS1 and I've always thought that.

I will always go to bat for MGS2 though. I still think people were much too hard on it, even if it has been somewhat redeemed.

Edit: I suppose I can't be too annoyed at MGS1. It was, after all, built with currently existing technology.

I posted some complaints about it earlier, but I just finished MGS1 for the first time, the last of the big games in the series for me to try or finish. Honestly, I was surprised how much I liked it, I think I had built it up in my head to being much harder to get into than it actually was. But yeah, a few hours into replaying MGS2, it's a pretty big step forward in refinement for the gameplay, even still existing in the same older overhead camera style of design.

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Kitfox88
Aug 21, 2007

Anybody lose their glasses?
Twin Snakes can get a little silly but honestly, given how the franchise went from MGS2 onwards, it's hardly out of line with what the rest of the games have brought to the table. :v:

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."
I hated Twin Snakes' controls and camera but that's more an issue with early MGS than anything specific to the game itself (and I think I'd dislike the OG even more).

Vandar
Sep 14, 2007

Isn't That Right, Chairman?



Twin Snakes owned and it's a shame it'll never get a re-release.

Fingerless Gloves posted:

Duane and Brando have a lot to answer for

Duane and Brando are a couple of sexist assholes and both of them should have been slapped upside the back of the head for ever thinking it was a good idea to release their stupid Carpet is Lava song.

Maxwell Lord
Dec 12, 2008

I am drowning.
There is no sign of land.
You are coming down with me, hand in unlovable hand.

And I hope you die.

I hope we both die.


:smith:

Grimey Drawer
The original Baldur's Gate has you at first level for-ever, man. Am I missing a bunch of sidequests before the Nashkel Mines? Because the game's story keeps telling you to go there as soon as you can, like even more than most RPGs.

oldpainless
Oct 30, 2009

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Still playing Horizon Forbidden West and there’s just too much. Too much map, too many side quests, too many weapons with different damage types and different weapon skills and special abilities to use at different times. Too many different coils and weaves and side jobs and salvage contracts. It’s becoming exhausting.






9/10

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Maxwell Lord posted:

The original Baldur's Gate has you at first level for-ever, man. Am I missing a bunch of sidequests before the Nashkel Mines? Because the game's story keeps telling you to go there as soon as you can, like even more than most RPGs.

Not really. There’s some minor stuff you can do ahead of time, but the intent is to go to Nashkel and talk to the mayor. Then Jaheira and everyone will calm down and you can gently caress around.

Even then, in terms of levelling up, doing the mines or the gnoll stronghold (if you picked up Minsc or Edwin) is the right play. After those two you’ll generally be around level 3 and that’s when you wander around the wilderness hoovering up side quests and getting really strong.

There’s a dedicated thread for the first Baldur’s Gate and the related games in Games called the Infinity Engine thread, tons of helpful people/advice there. (https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3586742)

Arivia has a new favorite as of 11:52 on Feb 25, 2024

Solenna
Jun 5, 2003

I'd say it was your manifest destiny not to.

Infinite Wealth substory with Elizabeth from Alo Happy tours ended on a sour note for me. While Kasuga is way too hung up on Saeko who he is 100% not in a relationship with, wacky sexual assault is not the way to go about getting him over it, I thought that poo poo stopped being funny like 15 years ago.

Professor Wayne
Aug 27, 2008

So, Harvey, what became of the giant penny?

They actually let him keep it.

oldpainless posted:

Still playing Horizon Forbidden West and there’s just too much. Too much map, too many side quests, too many weapons with different damage types and different weapon skills and special abilities to use at different times. Too many different coils and weaves and side jobs and salvage contracts. It’s becoming exhausting.






9/10

I'm a few hours in and agree completely. Just too much stuff all the time. I'm probably going to spend 80 hours playing it.

Opopanax
Aug 8, 2007

I HEX YE!!!


A Little to the Left has some truly awful achievements. It's a chill little puzzle game with about 70 levels, with achievements for not using and hints or skips, but those have to be done on a fresh save, so if you didn't look at the list and jumped in gently caress you I guess. Then there are also achievements for using hints on every level, and skips on every level. You can at least burn though those pretty quickly but it's still pointless busy work.

On top of that there's a daily puzzle mode, with achievements for doing 100 total, and 75 in a loving row so hope you don't have any trips planned for the next 3 months

credburn
Jun 22, 2016
A tangled skein of bad opinions, the hottest takes, and the the world's most misinformed nonsense. Do not engage with me, it's useless, and better yet, put me on ignore.

Opopanax posted:

A Little to the Left has some truly awful achievements. It's a chill little puzzle game with about 70 levels, with achievements for not using and hints or skips, but those have to be done on a fresh save, so if you didn't look at the list and jumped in gently caress you I guess. Then there are also achievements for using hints on every level, and skips on every level. You can at least burn though those pretty quickly but it's still pointless busy work.

On top of that there's a daily puzzle mode, with achievements for doing 100 total, and 75 in a loving row so hope you don't have any trips planned for the next 3 months

These feel like things you should earn achievements for :confused:

I think achievements should feel special. Like, you did an extraordinary thing.

kazil
Jul 24, 2005

Derpmph trial star reporter!

Achievements should be obsessive in a game about obsessively sorting things!

(A Little to the Left was an ok game but not one I'd give two shits about achievements for)

Mamkute
Sep 2, 2018
Please do not make open zones if you are not going to have any mechanics to make traversing them interesting. Small, segmented areas are totally fine.

credburn
Jun 22, 2016
A tangled skein of bad opinions, the hottest takes, and the the world's most misinformed nonsense. Do not engage with me, it's useless, and better yet, put me on ignore.
NieR:Automata has some of the laziest barriers to impede progress. Sometimes your destination is thirty yards away as the crow flies, but blocking your path is a broken down bus you can jump higher than. IMPASSIBLE, there is a bus there, we must take the long way around through the sewers.

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



My favorite one of those is in the Resident Evil 2 remake, in the police station library. You have to line up some bookcases to walk on top of, but you have to do some puzzling to make sure they're all even. A small gap between them, or one of them being tilted two inches above the others? Nope, utterly impassable.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012

Maxwell Lord posted:

The original Baldur's Gate has you at first level for-ever, man. Am I missing a bunch of sidequests before the Nashkel Mines? Because the game's story keeps telling you to go there as soon as you can, like even more than most RPGs.

Yes, at least for the EE. If you know where to go there's a ton of free xp to pick up from quests plus all the hidden caches.

Like all games from that era there are absolutely amazing wordpad guides on gamefaqs

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/663933-baldurs-gate-enhanced-edition/faqs/66126

I followed this and I think I hit level 3 as I arrived in Naskhel. There is no quest failure timer in the game, but some NPCs who join are on a timer before they leave you.

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh one down.

Opopanax posted:

Then there are also achievements for using hints on every level, and skips on every level. You can at least burn though those pretty quickly but it's still pointless busy work.

Lol at the idea of a "just skip the entire game" acievement.

Nuebot
Feb 18, 2013

The developer of Brigador is a secret chud, don't give him money

credburn posted:

NieR:Automata has some of the laziest barriers to impede progress. Sometimes your destination is thirty yards away as the crow flies, but blocking your path is a broken down bus you can jump higher than. IMPASSIBLE, there is a bus there, we must take the long way around through the sewers.

You must yield

CordlessPen
Jan 8, 2004

I told you so...
I just started Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night and I really like it but the beginning of the game has a few really annoying things that, thankfully, are gradually fading out.

I feel like a lot of enemies are way too strong. It gets better as the game goes on but I think it's mostly because the game opens up and when I find an area that's too difficult I double back and try something else, and by the time I realize that it's the same everywhere I levelled up a bit and can manage. I just found Bloodless and she takes close to 20% of my health when her flying umbrellas hit.

20% from a boss doesn't seem too bad, or at least it wouldn't in an action game, but RotN definitely feels more like an RPG, where you're supposed to trade blows and either have high defence or some kind of skill to block; I don't feel like I could just practice and get better, mostly because of the next point:

The game feels super rough around the edges. A lot of the weapons I found have garbage hit boxes. If you attack when jumping, your attack will be cancelled when you land, which is unfathomably annoying. You can't aim regular attacks up or down and there are a LOT of slopes and tiny or flying enemies. There's a pretty big delay when jumping which makes platforming really frustrating. I know it's pretty standard in most video games but I hate contact damage, and in this game it really doesn't pair well with the bad hit boxes. The 3D levels, and especially the rooms where the camera moves in 3D like the Dragons' Tower, make it super hard to know what you can and can't stand on. I don't understand why teleport rooms aren't also save rooms since I can always teleport to the home base, it just makes it take 3 minutes instead of 5 seconds if I want to save when I reach a teleport room.

I don't think I'm that far into the game yet and at the moment it does feel like the game opened up, but I want to say that the first few upgrades don't really let you explore that much, like one area each. It's especially frustrating in the case of the double jump because in most games that's the big, like, game starter, but in RotN it barely does anything exploration-wise.

Related, the upgrade after the double jump, the laser teleport thing, kinda fills that game starter role but I don't know if it's by design. The description makes it feel like it's only meant to squeeze you through tight spaces but one thing it lets you do is teleport straight up and then double jump which opens up a LOT of areas of the map, but the timing is so clunky that it sort of feels like you're not supposed to be able to do that.

Jeez, sorry for the long post! All in all, I like the game, especially now that I've unlocked the laser teleport skill and can finally stop, turn around and explore when I hit a brick wall, but that early game was rough...

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

CordlessPen posted:

There's a pretty big delay when jumping which makes platforming really frustrating.

Check the options, there's a setting that tries to correct the delay. It's not 100% perfect but it was a noticeable improvement.

Otherwise...yeah, that sounds like Bloodstained.

CzarChasm
Mar 14, 2009

I don't like it when you're watching me eat.
I would add that while you are correct about the melee weapons having limited range/use against small enemies or foes at angles, that's where the entire enemy skill function comes in to play. You may have to farm a bit to get the really useful shards, but you should be able to find 1 or 2 that will fit your basic attacking needs. I'm sure you're aware, but just adding it since you didn't mention it specifically.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Oh also the attack cancel thing is technically for your benefit, because it means you can instantly attack again.

CordlessPen
Jan 8, 2004

I told you so...

John Murdoch posted:

Check the options, there's a setting that tries to correct the delay. It's not 100% perfect but it was a noticeable improvement.
Thank you! I'll definitely hunt that option down later today!

CzarChasm posted:

I would add that while you are correct about the melee weapons having limited range/use against small enemies or foes at angles, that's where the entire enemy skill function comes in to play.
Yeah, it's actually very Castlevania-esque to have to use subweapons to attack at certain angles, I just don't like having to use MP to kill frogs.

John Murdoch posted:

Oh also the attack cancel thing is technically for your benefit, because it means you can instantly attack again.

I think I was unlucky there; the first weapon I used for any length of time was an ice spear that I got from an 8-bit coin and it was generally pretty good but the slow attack speed meant that if I tried to attack while landing it would stop before hitting anything. With swords it's not as bad. Now I use the crissaegrim lookalike and things are going swell.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
In my experience, Spears had extremely weird attack timings/hitboxes for no clear reason. Like, struggled to consistently hit candles levels of screwed up.

serefin99
Apr 15, 2016

Mikoooon~
Your lovely shrine maiden fox wife, Tamamo no Mae, is here to help!

I loved Bloodstained but yeah, it's definitely on the rough end. Still very enjoyable- I got the platinum for it, after all- but also some downright baffling decisions (the one that continues to stand out to me is the entire cooking system). Hopefully Ritual 2, whenever that comes out, can tighten things up.

bawk
Mar 31, 2013

IIRC there is a way to down-attack some of the more annoying enemies (I'm guessing it's the plant monsters on the ground in the garden area?) BUT it's dumb. You dont hold down + attack, you hold down + forward + attack, which doesnt always work, and the hitbox still sucks depending on the weapon. I spent most of the beginning of the game equipped with the spell that attacks along the ground specifically for those rooms/those enemies until I got a big swingy two-handed weapon that attacks downwards on a regular attack

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

I just vaporised everything with a gigantic laser.

bossy lady
Jul 9, 1983

If you didn't beat the game with the squeaky shoes can you really say you beat bloodstained?

ZeusCannon
Nov 5, 2009

BLAAAAAARGH PLEASE KILL ME BLAAAAAAAARGH
Grimey Drawer

The Lone Badger posted:

I just vaporised everything with a gigantic laser.

This was how i beat Elden Ring and it is the way.

kazil
Jul 24, 2005

Derpmph trial star reporter!

bossy lady posted:

If you didn't beat the game with the squeaky shoes can you really say you beat bloodstained?

This was how i beat Elden Ring and it is the way.

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010
Like A Dragon 8: Wealth - this game has generally been pretty transparent about when you’re gonna lose access to normal gameplay stuff, so it is really jarring that Chapter 7 can easily end without you wanting it to by just walking somewhat close to the objective that doesn’t say “this is the end of the chapter battle gauntlet” (like I did when I walked nearby en route to a substory), which is annoying because Chapter 8 is the Kiryu chapter that takes you away from Hawaii, and also because Chapter 9 starts off with stronger overworld enemies because of plot stuff and you’re also railroaded for some period of time.

SubNat
Nov 27, 2008

The only acceptable dye system in games is where you get a dye/skin/effect once, and it unlocks it for unlimited use and application.

Different colors, materials, effects, etc are fun, but most games have terrible systems where you have to buy a bunch of dye and apply it to individual pieces of armor etc. (Often without the ability to even preview the end result.)
If it's not just a menu where I have access to my 'silver, azure, chainmail, animated flaming hot cheetos' colors/effects and can easily assign them to any of my gear then you've all hosed up, devs.

One of the few games I can recall with a system like that was probably Guild Wars 2, where dyes permanently unlocked that color/material for that character, and you could just assign them at will.
This post was sponsored by me remembering how disappointed I was when I bought my first vial of dye in Baldur's Gate 3.

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.


Having played The Witcher 2 and Xenoblade 2, what other games have the absolute worst User Interface?
Examples of Bad UI:
  • The map doesn't account for elevation or blocked paths. The cursor points to an impassible mountain range but not the cave mouth that leads the way.
  • You have to buy or create items one at a time.
  • It takes far more clicks than necessary to equip a hat or drink a potion.
  • A lot of real-estate is used up on the screen, despite the features being irrelevant most of the time.
  • You can't save any loadouts in a game about customization.
  • By the time you notice a quest update it's already gone.
  • You don't notice the danger because the hazard symbol is microscopic.

Inspector Gesicht has a new favorite as of 19:18 on Feb 27, 2024

Arivia
Mar 17, 2011

Inspector Gesicht posted:

Having played The Witcher 2 and Xenoblade 2, what other games have the absolute worst User Interface?

Examples of Bad UI:
  • The map doesn't account for elevation or blocked paths. The cursor points to an impassible mountain range but not the cave mouth that leads the way.
  • You have to buy or create items one at a time.
  • It takes far more clicks than necessary to equip a hat or drink a potion.
  • A lot of real-estate is used up on the screen, despite the features being irrelevant most of the time.
  • You can't save any loadouts in a game about customization.
  • By the time you notice a quest update it's already gone.
  • You don't notice the danger because the hazard symbol is microscopic.

It's kind of cheating (since it's from like 1995) but The Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall has an incredible amount of work put into its UI and a lot of it is still useless, confusing or entirely what the gently caress. The dungeon map is a 3D display of these giant randomly generated dungeons that doesn't show you anything except the wall textures so it's useless to figure out where you are.

I could definitely come up with more if I thought about it but quest updates (including ones that set a hard deadline for you to do something or not die) are frequently shown as single popups that immediately go away once you press a key or click, and are not saved anywhere.

Also, swinging a weapon has you holding down the left mouse button and moving your mouse to mimic the kind of attack you want to do. Want to slash? Go left to right. Stab? Quick up movement. I killed a bunch of old ball mice playing it as a kid, it was just that destructive to them.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.

SubNat posted:

The only acceptable dye system in games is where you get a dye/skin/effect once, and it unlocks it for unlimited use and application.

Different colors, materials, effects, etc are fun, but most games have terrible systems where you have to buy a bunch of dye and apply it to individual pieces of armor etc. (Often without the ability to even preview the end result.)
If it's not just a menu where I have access to my 'silver, azure, chainmail, animated flaming hot cheetos' colors/effects and can easily assign them to any of my gear then you've all hosed up, devs.

One of the few games I can recall with a system like that was probably Guild Wars 2, where dyes permanently unlocked that color/material for that character, and you could just assign them at will.
This post was sponsored by me remembering how disappointed I was when I bought my first vial of dye in Baldur's Gate 3.

City of Heroes continues to be the high water mark for cosmetics.

My favorite (possibly from Guild Wars 1 ironically enough) is when games attach arbitrary values to different colors. Oh, you wanted plain loving black? That's a badass color that we know 12 year olds will poopsock for, so gently caress you it costs 20x more per bottle. Gold is glamorous and valued in real life, let's just copy that bullshit straight into our game too, wheee! I think at a certain point newer games also got wind of how some people (like me) want to look as garishly, vibrantly fabulous as possible and started hiding the neon pink poo poo deep in their battle passes and at a premium in their stores.

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.
Also as to the question of bad UI, I immediately think of Hyrule Warriors, a game that excels in crowding the screen with a hundred different alerts, dialogue boxes, alarms, status text, objective updates, et al while failing to actually communicate basically any of that information successfully.

BioEnchanted
Aug 9, 2011

He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.
Made it to the part in Tomb Raider 3 where you can pick a level.

There is a slur in the cutscene at the end of India though, so that's a shame - a character is referred to as the "R-worded researcher". Also the final India level sucks, going from a confusing maze, to a pit with 8 loving snakes, to a boss fight who uses fire attacks and makes the water deadly by lighting it because it's apparently oil.

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



John Murdoch posted:

Also as to the question of bad UI, I immediately think of Hyrule Warriors, a game that excels in crowding the screen with a hundred different alerts, dialogue boxes, alarms, status text, objective updates, et al while failing to actually communicate basically any of that information successfully.

Yeah, that's one for me, too. I've given it a few tries, I always get a few sessions in and then just get tired of dealing with that.

The Moon Monster
Dec 30, 2005

Inspector Gesicht posted:

Having played The Witcher 2 and Xenoblade 2, what other games have the absolute worst User Interface?
Examples of Bad UI:
  • The map doesn't account for elevation or blocked paths. The cursor points to an impassible mountain range but not the cave mouth that leads the way.
  • You have to buy or create items one at a time.
  • It takes far more clicks than necessary to equip a hat or drink a potion.
  • A lot of real-estate is used up on the screen, despite the features being irrelevant most of the time.
  • You can't save any loadouts in a game about customization.
  • By the time you notice a quest update it's already gone.
  • You don't notice the danger because the hazard symbol is microscopic.

How about the crafting in the PSP Tactics Ogre remake? Crafting a sword required you to refine various materials dozens of times, one at a time, and you had to watch this cauldron jiggle for a few seconds each time. I hope the redid this for the recent remake.

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Leal
Oct 2, 2009

The Moon Monster posted:

How about the crafting in the PSP Tactics Ogre remake? Crafting a sword required you to refine various materials dozens of times, one at a time, and you had to watch this cauldron jiggle for a few seconds each time. I hope the redid this for the recent remake.

Don't forget that you can fail at crafting something, wasting the ingredients used.

They did change this in the remake, you can bulk craft, failure is removed and if you don't have enough ingredients (and they're purchasable) you can purchase all of them in one button press.

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