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Ohtori Akio
Jul 15, 2022

Some Guy TT posted:

i wonder sometimes if these kinds of feminists have ever spoken to literally any man in their lives if they genuinely believe we all fantasize about loving sticks with cantaloupes

you do

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FirstnameLastname
Jul 10, 2022
Probation
Can't post for 11 hours!

i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

I would need like four cantaloupes (two for the booty)

tokin opposition
Apr 8, 2021

I don't jailbreak the androids, I set them free.

WATCH MARS EXPRESS (2023)
im woke so give me a woman with six cantaloupes

StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

tokin opposition posted:

im woke so give me a woman with six cantaloupes

DJJIB-DJDCT
Feb 1, 2024

I think this is the right thread for this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZaWnQ9HXZA

One More Fat Nerd
Apr 13, 2007

Mama’s Lil’ Louie

Nap Ghost

Its unfair to the world to extrapolate the behavior of goons out onto it.

i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

I think this is the right thread for this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZaWnQ9HXZA

hootington looks different than i pictured

DJJIB-DJDCT
Feb 1, 2024

I had Hoot pegged as Disney Adult though, so it's nice to have confirmation.

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

I think this is the right thread for this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZaWnQ9HXZA

you know its going to be a great video when she describes the premise in such a way it takes a minute to realize that shes talking about something she sees as an unambiguously good thing and not an andrew tatesque conspiracy theory

Toph Bei Fong
Feb 29, 2008



Some Guy TT posted:

i wonder sometimes if these kinds of feminists have ever spoken to literally any man in their lives if they genuinely believe we all fantasize about loving sticks with cantaloupes

Gains in women’s rights haven't made women happier. Why is that?
Anna Petherick

Women are outliving men in every country in the world, despite facing higher levels of poverty than men, greater odds of encountering sexual violence and many additional, diverse forms of discrimination.

But while women are living longer, it’s unclear whether their wellbeing is showing comparable strides. As women gain political, economic and social freedoms, one would expect that they should feel even more contented relative to men. But this isn’t so.

The “paradox of declining female happiness” was pointed out by economists Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers, who also happen to share a house and kids. They analyzed the happiness trends of US citizens between 1970 and 2005 and found a surprising result.

Stevenson and Wolfers discovered that American women rated their overall life satisfaction higher than men in the 1970s. Thereafter, women’s happiness scores decreased while men’s scores stayed roughly stable. By the 1990s, women were less happy than men. This relative unhappiness softened after the turn of the century, but men continue to enjoy a higher sense of subjective wellbeing that is at least as high — if not higher — than women’s.

Those 35 years saw advances in American women’s rights and financial power. For example, in 1974, Congress outlawed credit discrimination based on sex; in 1975, states were prevented from excluding women from juries. Until 1976, marital rape was legal in every US state. Over the 35-year period, women working full time went from earning less than 60% of a man’s median salary to earning about 76% of it — still an embarrassment for a country that aspires to be a meritocracy but an improvement nonetheless.

Of course, things happened during the period in question that probably made American women less happy. Take, for example, the massive rise in incarceration rates among their actual and potential male partners. (This rise wouldn’t have left traces in the male happiness data because prisoners were not included in life satisfaction surveys.)

The 20 years between 1980 and 2000 saw a five-fold increase in the number of African American men in jail, leading to more black men behind bars in the US than were enrolled in colleges and universities. Those kinds of statistics imply big changes to the marriage market.

Although increased incarceration has affected African Americans more than others, even when all Americans are considered together, the rise in male incarceration between 1970 and 2000 has been held responsible for a 13% drop in US marriage rates. The reduced pool of free men has also encouraged many women to accept marriage proposals from men they would have otherwise rejected, an effect that has been shown to be sufficient to shift the economic advantage of marriage away from women and toward men.

But putting more men in prison cannot fully explain the lessening happiness of American women, because women in other industrialized countries – which do not lock up nearly as many of their men – have also become less happy in recent decades. Stevenson and Wolfers found the gap between male and female happiness in Europe, over approximately the same period, had a strikingly similar trend and magnitude to the US gender happiness gap.

So why is this? Evidence supports the idea that women’s rights and roles in the home in the US and Europe have not moved in step with changes in the workplace. Therefore, because women with jobs often do most of the chores and childcare, they shoulder a dual burden that cuts into their sleep and fun. Long commutes are thought to make British women more miserable than British men because of the greater pressure on women to meet responsibilities at home as well as work.

When the dual burden is carefully measured – as it has been across European countries – the results illustrate the influence that expectations have on how happy we feel. Experiencing the dual burden leads working women in Sweden, for example, to feel more miserable than their counterparts in Greece, probably because Swedes’ expectations around gender equality are more ambitious. (Fewer than 35% of Swedish women do three-quarters of the housework, compared to 81% of Greek women.)

Expectations also lie behind the curious finding that performing household chores makes men statistically less likely to become depressed but contributes to depression in women. Taking on housework seems to encourage men to judge themselves as generally likeable, fair-minded dudes, kindly reducing their wives’ load. On the other hand, taking on housework seems to make women feel exploited.

The social history of Switzerland, where women weren’t allowed to vote until 1971, reveals the subtleties of employment expectations on happiness. A decade after Swiss women gained suffrage, the country’s citizens voted in a referendum on whether the constitution should be amended to state that women deserve equal pay for equal work.

Different parts of Switzerland voted very differently. Unsurprisingly, cantons (Swiss states) with a high proportion of votes in favor of the amendment were recorded as having a small gender wage gap some years later. But strangely, working women in areas with strong traditional values – where most people had voted against equal pay – were happier than working women in liberal cantons.

Even though their salaries were further below those of the men around them, the women in more traditional communities were less likely to report discrimination than their countrywomen in more liberal areas.

This inside-out result probably arises from different cognitive comparisons. Women in liberal communities are less happy and notice discrimination because they automatically compare their opportunities and salary to everyone else around them, men included. Traditionally minded women perhaps base their identities more firmly on their gender roles, and think only of other women when they evaluate their privilege and opportunities.

This kind of difference might explain the lessening happiness of American women. As women’s rights and opportunities have increased, it seems reasonable that women in industrialized countries have internalized ever more complex and optimistic expectations, and judged reality against these. Asked how satisfied she is with her lot in life, the housewife of the early 1970s probably just reflected on whether things were going well at home. The same question today evokes evaluations across many areas of life.

Declining happiness among women may seem depressing. But who ever claimed an expanded consciousness brings satisfaction?

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

ok i actually watched the video and my initial characterization of it was a little facetious and unfair she does recognize that whisper networks tend to devolve into catty gossip and compares them to terf social media of all things as institutions that thrive on negative feedback loops

she remains frustratingly like an arms length away from understanding that the problem with whisper networks isnt that theyre networks its that theyre whispers people who live in healthy communities just say this poo poo out loud people in unhealthily competitive environments hoard and leak information for their own personal benefit

most of the bad stuff people like that guardian writer are talking about that have negatively affected women since liberation are directly tied to the way society since the seventies has deliberately destroyed healthy communities to replace them with capitalist hellscapes its basically impossible to understand any modern feminist issue when you dont take that into account not that this stops modern feminists from trying

tokin opposition
Apr 8, 2021

I don't jailbreak the androids, I set them free.

WATCH MARS EXPRESS (2023)

i say swears online posted:

hootington looks different than i pictured

About what I expected after the first test of the transgending ray

Ohtori Akio
Jul 15, 2022

Toph Bei Fong posted:

Gains in women’s rights haven't made women happier. Why is that?
Anna Petherick

Women are outliving men in every country in the world, despite facing higher levels of poverty than men, greater odds of encountering sexual violence and many additional, diverse forms of discrimination.

But while women are living longer, it’s unclear whether their wellbeing is showing comparable strides. As women gain political, economic and social freedoms, one would expect that they should feel even more contented relative to men. But this isn’t so.

The “paradox of declining female happiness” was pointed out by economists Betsey Stevenson and Justin Wolfers, who also happen to share a house and kids. They analyzed the happiness trends of US citizens between 1970 and 2005 and found a surprising result.

Stevenson and Wolfers discovered that American women rated their overall life satisfaction higher than men in the 1970s. Thereafter, women’s happiness scores decreased while men’s scores stayed roughly stable. By the 1990s, women were less happy than men. This relative unhappiness softened after the turn of the century, but men continue to enjoy a higher sense of subjective wellbeing that is at least as high — if not higher — than women’s.

Those 35 years saw advances in American women’s rights and financial power. For example, in 1974, Congress outlawed credit discrimination based on sex; in 1975, states were prevented from excluding women from juries. Until 1976, marital rape was legal in every US state. Over the 35-year period, women working full time went from earning less than 60% of a man’s median salary to earning about 76% of it — still an embarrassment for a country that aspires to be a meritocracy but an improvement nonetheless.

Of course, things happened during the period in question that probably made American women less happy. Take, for example, the massive rise in incarceration rates among their actual and potential male partners. (This rise wouldn’t have left traces in the male happiness data because prisoners were not included in life satisfaction surveys.)

The 20 years between 1980 and 2000 saw a five-fold increase in the number of African American men in jail, leading to more black men behind bars in the US than were enrolled in colleges and universities. Those kinds of statistics imply big changes to the marriage market.

Although increased incarceration has affected African Americans more than others, even when all Americans are considered together, the rise in male incarceration between 1970 and 2000 has been held responsible for a 13% drop in US marriage rates. The reduced pool of free men has also encouraged many women to accept marriage proposals from men they would have otherwise rejected, an effect that has been shown to be sufficient to shift the economic advantage of marriage away from women and toward men.

But putting more men in prison cannot fully explain the lessening happiness of American women, because women in other industrialized countries – which do not lock up nearly as many of their men – have also become less happy in recent decades. Stevenson and Wolfers found the gap between male and female happiness in Europe, over approximately the same period, had a strikingly similar trend and magnitude to the US gender happiness gap.

So why is this? Evidence supports the idea that women’s rights and roles in the home in the US and Europe have not moved in step with changes in the workplace. Therefore, because women with jobs often do most of the chores and childcare, they shoulder a dual burden that cuts into their sleep and fun. Long commutes are thought to make British women more miserable than British men because of the greater pressure on women to meet responsibilities at home as well as work.

When the dual burden is carefully measured – as it has been across European countries – the results illustrate the influence that expectations have on how happy we feel. Experiencing the dual burden leads working women in Sweden, for example, to feel more miserable than their counterparts in Greece, probably because Swedes’ expectations around gender equality are more ambitious. (Fewer than 35% of Swedish women do three-quarters of the housework, compared to 81% of Greek women.)

Expectations also lie behind the curious finding that performing household chores makes men statistically less likely to become depressed but contributes to depression in women. Taking on housework seems to encourage men to judge themselves as generally likeable, fair-minded dudes, kindly reducing their wives’ load. On the other hand, taking on housework seems to make women feel exploited.

The social history of Switzerland, where women weren’t allowed to vote until 1971, reveals the subtleties of employment expectations on happiness. A decade after Swiss women gained suffrage, the country’s citizens voted in a referendum on whether the constitution should be amended to state that women deserve equal pay for equal work.

Different parts of Switzerland voted very differently. Unsurprisingly, cantons (Swiss states) with a high proportion of votes in favor of the amendment were recorded as having a small gender wage gap some years later. But strangely, working women in areas with strong traditional values – where most people had voted against equal pay – were happier than working women in liberal cantons.

Even though their salaries were further below those of the men around them, the women in more traditional communities were less likely to report discrimination than their countrywomen in more liberal areas.

This inside-out result probably arises from different cognitive comparisons. Women in liberal communities are less happy and notice discrimination because they automatically compare their opportunities and salary to everyone else around them, men included. Traditionally minded women perhaps base their identities more firmly on their gender roles, and think only of other women when they evaluate their privilege and opportunities.

This kind of difference might explain the lessening happiness of American women. As women’s rights and opportunities have increased, it seems reasonable that women in industrialized countries have internalized ever more complex and optimistic expectations, and judged reality against these. Asked how satisfied she is with her lot in life, the housewife of the early 1970s probably just reflected on whether things were going well at home. The same question today evokes evaluations across many areas of life.

Declining happiness among women may seem depressing. But who ever claimed an expanded consciousness brings satisfaction?

not a chance

Baudolino
Apr 1, 2010

THUNDERDOME LOSER
We are only a few years away from the state paying women directly to get pregnant, and in the most desperate nations this compensation will exceed what the average woman would have made working.
In the most neoliberal western nations i`ll get diluted into a partial exemption from student loans or something, but that`still economically signicant.
So that`ll surely lead to a fun evolution of gender norms. We`ve had lean-in feminism and bossladies now are we are about to get lie on your back feminism instead. Maybe it will prove more popular?

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

we only pay for the right kind of women to get pregnant is the problem theres no shortage of poor women giving birth to poor children giving the united states a crisis tier population of foster children

like if we actually wanted to solve this problem by far the easiest solution would be to jack up the incentives for adoption or at least not make it such a pain in the rear end that most people who would want to do it are discouraged by the paperwork and fees

but we as a culture are very biologically deterministic its what makes us racist it what makes us transphobic and its why our goofy rear end political system makes it easier for women on welfare to get public funding for ivf treatments than food to help them take care of the neighbors kid whose parents are in jail

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.

Some Guy TT posted:

most of the bad stuff people like that guardian writer are talking about that have negatively affected women since liberation are directly tied to the way society since the seventies has deliberately destroyed healthy communities to replace them with capitalist hellscapes its basically impossible to understand any modern feminist issue when you dont take that into account not that this stops modern feminists from trying

I've seen this over and over in recent years, people get so close and then hit an invisible wall because they see themselves as frictionless spheres in a void and not as people who live in a world.

War and Pieces
Apr 24, 2022

DID NOT VOTE FOR FETTERMAN

Some Guy TT posted:

Twenty eight years ago, I was sitting on the dusty rose carpeting of my childhood bedroom, staring at the cover of the latest issue Seventeen. This particular issue isn’t available on eBay, and only certain articles from inside have been digitized, so I can’t tell you the exact wording of the Editor’s Note, but others have a similar memory of its contents: look at this non-model on the cover, which I interpreted as look at this non-ideal body on the cover.

If this body was non-ideal, I remember thinking, then what was mine? I had just turned twelve years old, and was about to finish sixth grade. I was starting junior high in the Fall. Somehow both bodysuits and massive, baggy flannels were popular. My body, like a lot of other girls at that age, was beginning to rearrange itself. I felt so alienated from it, so unmoored from any sort of solid sense of self.

Three months later, I read the Letters to the Editor (which, miraculously, have been digitized), which framed the cover model “as a body you can relate to.” The first letter, written from a dorm at Wheaton College, expressed “relief”; the second thanked Seventeen for putting someone “who forgets to do their step aerobics from time to time,” and the third argued that if you’re going to put someone in a bikini on the cover, “she ought to have a better figure.”

Again, the message I received — and why the original cover and the letters to the editor remain fixed in my brain — was that this body was somehow “normal” (and thus desirable/obtainable) but also undesirable (insufficiently controlled, not for public display, un-ideal).

Reading these letters now, it’s striking that they were all authored by groups of girls and/or women — suggesting that they came together, talked about the cover, came to a consensus, and decided to submit their feedback. But it’s also striking that Seventeen chose these three letters as the ones, out of hundreds, maybe even thousands, to highlight. They represent the two postures that pervaded the pop culture of the ‘90s and 2000s: you should let go of old fashioned ideas of beauty and femininity, embracing your own understanding of what liberation and power looks like….while also conforming to new, often equally constrictive standards of girl and womanhood.

Of course, these two postures are in direct opposition. But most ideologies are contradictory in some way — and dependent on pop culture, from the Seventeen letter section to actual celebrity images, to reconcile the contradictions and prop up the ideology as a whole. In the ‘90s, feminist theorists immediately called bullshit on this practice, which they referred to as a “postfeminism” (I cannot tell you how many pieces of feminist scholarship from the early ‘90s I have read on the postfeminist quagmire that is Pretty Woman) but that didn’t stop it from becoming the backdrop of Gen-X’s early adulthood and millennials’ childhoods.

In “The Making and Unmaking of Body Problems in Seventeen Magazine, 1992-2003,” design scholars Leslie Winfield Ballentine and Jennifer Paff Ogle point to the ways in which teen magazines work as illustrating texts — filling in the “contours and colors” — for readers trying to figure to what it means to be a young woman. At the time of their research, Seventeen was “reaching” a whopping 87% of American girls between the ages of 12 and 19.

“Reaching” is different than “reading” or “agreeing with,” but what the magazine communicated, in concert with similarly voiced texts, like YM and Teen, mattered. (At least to white teens: Lisa Duke’s illuminating work found that while white adolescent readers viewed the magazines as sites of “reality,” Black readers primarily used the magazines as opportunities for critique).

In their analysis, Ballentine and Ogle delineated two types of body-related articles. The clear majority were concerned with the “making” of body problems, but they were often accompanied by articles “unmaking” those same problems. In other words: there was an abundance of articles introducing something that the reader should be worried about (cellulite, wrinkles, blemishes, bacne, “flabby” areas, stretch marks, “unwanted” hair, body odor) and how to address it in order to achieve the “ideal” body….but also, often in the same issue, there were articles instructing the reader to let go of others’ ideas about what beauty or perfection might look like. (See the cover of that June 1993 Seventeen: “You are so beautiful / Celebrate your heritage, celebrate yourself)

As any past or present reader of these magazines knows, the framing of imperfections and their reparation is rarely as simple as “your legs are hideous, here’s how to make them not hideous.” It’s more like this passage, from 1993:

Or this 1998 advice column response to a reader to “work [her] butt off” after voicing concern about its size:

Or this 1996 confessional from a high school student after returning from “fat camp” having lost 30 pounds:

As in so many other instructional texts, the body becomes a project in need of constant maintenance in order to achieve its ideal, attractive form, which is slender (but not too skinny), petite, toned but not muscular. Over the course of the ‘90s, that (woman’s) ideal was gradually refined until reaching peak form in the video for “I’m a Slave 4 U.”

There is no accounting for genetics, for race, for abilities, for access to time and capital, for even the existence of actual diverse body shapes. The ideal shifts slightly from decade to decade, but it never disappears; if anything, the sheer number of products and programs available to help it arrive in its ideal state proliferate. And if you can’t arrive at the ideal body, it’s not because your existing physical form cannot achieve it. It’s an implicit or explicit failure of will.

I have the skills to disassemble and analyze these images now, but at the time, I was just trying to drink from the cultural firehose of MTV and Seventeen and My So-Called Life. I didn’t have the internet. Sassy wasn’t on my radar, neither was Riot Grrl. There was no Tumblr, no Rookie. I had a Top 40 station and a mom with feminist inclinations but not a lot of feminist language. I had a fairly conservative youth group and because I wasn’t good at basketball or volleyball, the only other organized activity available to me was cheerleading.

As for alternative visions of femininity, I had Lois Lowry books and Go Ask Alice. I had the Delia*s catalog and the Victoria’s Secret catalog and “The Cube” at the local Bon Marché. I was middle class, my home situation was never precarious, and I was largely unchallenged in school — which is another way of saying that I had a lot of mental energy to dedicate to thinking about the ways I failed to fit in to the narrow understanding of what a teen girl should be and look and act like in Lewiston, Idaho in the 1990s.

Which also means I was incredibly susceptible to the understanding of what the ideal should be, and eager for any and all advice on how to achieve it.

https://twitter.com/clhubes/status/1395061523274506242

I like to think of phrases like the one above — along with images like the Seventeen cover above — as a vernacular of deprivation, control, and aspirational containment. It’s the language we used to discipline our own bodies and others, and then normalize and standardize that discipline. For Younger Gen-X and Millennials, it includes, but is by no means limited, to:

Britney’s stomach and the discourse around it (1000 crunches a day)

The ubiquitous mentions of the Sweet Valley Twins’ size (6)

TLC in silk pajamas for the “Creep” video

Jessica Simpson’s “fat” jeans

Celery as a “calorie negative food”

Janet Jackson’s abs in “That’s The Way Love Goes”

The figuration of certain foods as non-fat and thus “safely” consumable (jelly beans, SnackWells, olestra chips)

“Heroin chic” but specifically Kate Moss saying that “nothing tastes as good as skinny feels”

The reign of terror of low-slung jeans

The “going out top” whose platonic form was a handkerchief tied around your boobs

The phrases “muffin top” and “whale tale” and “thigh gap”

Ally McBeal, full stop

The Olson Twins, full stop

Kate Winslet as “chubby,” Brittany Murphy in Clueless as “fat,” Hilary Duff as “chubby,” one of the cheerleaders in Bring It On as fat, America Ferrera as “brave,” Anne Hathaway in The Devil Wears Prada as fat, Gisele as “curvy,” Alicia Silverstone as “Fatgirl”

Tyra Banks as “Thigh-Ra Banks”

The entire loving discourse around Bridget Jones’ supposedly undesirable body

The Rachel Zoe aesthetic

The Abercrombie aesthetic

DJ Tanner eating ice “popsicles” on Full House

The “Fat Monica” plotline on Friends

The pervasive idea that bananas will make you gain weight

Reporting on stars’ diet secrets, including but not limited to soaking cotton balls in orange juice and swallowing them to make you “feel” hungry

“A shake for breakfast, a shake for lunch, and then a sensible dinner!” aka Slimfast, whose advertisements were everywhere

Maya Hornbacher’s Wasted as instructional text

Miranda pouring dish soap on the cake she put in the garbage on SATC

“Diverse body types” articles where “diversity” was a shorter girl with a size-C cup boobs

Messaging from our own mothers, grandmothers, and elders that stigmatized fat, normalized hunger and deprivation, and praised the skinniest (and often least healthy) versions of ourselves

Gwyneth Paltrow’s 1999 Oscar dress

The hegemony of the strapless J.Crew bridesmaid dress of the late ‘00s

The obsessive documentation and degradation of Britney’s pregnant and postpartum body

Valorization of the “cute” pregnancy / Pregnant Kim Kardashian as shamu

I’m starting to get into more recent territory here and could go on for some time, but I wanted to cover foundational, formative language. (Please, feel free to add your own memories in the comments). To be clear, I’m in no way suggesting that young Gen-X/millenials are the first to internalize this sort of destructive body messaging. And I know there are different ideals and messages that have disciplined and damaged men and their relationships to their bodies.

But instead of shouting “BUT TWIGGY!” and “My grandmother survived on saltines and cigarettes!” I think it’s useful to return to the formation of the tweet referenced above: “If any Gen Z are wondering why every millennial woman has an eating disorder…” The author is trying to elucidate a norm (the desire to discipline and contain your body) that, over the course the last twenty years, has become slightly less of a norm. Her tweet, like this post, is a way to explain ourselves, but also to make the mechanics of the ideology not just visible but detectable — if in slightly different form — in their own lives.

It’s one thing, after all, when you hear that your grandparents did something — that feels old-fashioned, foreign, and distant. It’s quite another when it’s the primary practice of people just five, ten, fifteen years ago — when the ideology is still thick in the air. Fat activism and the body positivity movement has done so much, and in a relatively short amount of time, to shift the conversations we have about our bodies. But there’s so much work still to be done. I spent a lot of time thinking about this exquisite Sarah Miller essay:

That last sentence is a sentence of mourning. There is deep and abiding sadness here, the sort that so much of us are processing (or, you know, refusing to process, and submitting to their continued quiet torture) everyday.

As someone still doing this work with myself every day, what I crave — and where Virginia Sole-Smith, Sabrina Strings, Aubrey Gordon, and Michael Hobbes are already leading the way — is something more akin to a deep excavation, a social genealogy and cultural archaeology, of these ideas: where they come from, how they gain salience and thrive, how they adapt and acquire new names (hello, intermittent fasting, I see you!)

Why, for instnace, did Bridget Jones need a particular sort of body to make its narrative work? Why does it feel so revelatory and familiar and deeply sad to hear Taylor Swift talk about the gray area of disordered eating? What made it so easy to fall in love with the postfeminist dystopia? What ideas are passed down through our families, and how do we even begin to reject them?

We can’t unlearn noxious, fat-phobic ideas if we can’t even begin to remember where and how we learned and normalized them. We can’t stop the cycle of passing them down to future generations in slightly camouflaged form if we can’t even identify their presence in our own. And we can’t unravel these ideologies without acknowledging the deep, often unrecognized trauma they have inflicted.

https://twitter.com/thekuhlest/status/1395880183589003265

When millennial women shudder at the prospect of the return of the low-slung jean, we are not being old, or boring, or basic. It’s not about the loving jeans AS JEANS, and I wish people could actually understand that. It was about the jeans on our bodies. We are attempting to reject a cultural moment that made so many of us feel undesirable, incomplete, and alienated from whatever fragile confidence we’d managed to accumulate. We are trying to avoid reinflicting that on ourselves, but more importantly, on the next generation.

The jeans will come back. They already have. I know this. Whatever the style of fashion that made you feel inadequate and unfixable, it will likely come back too. You might have the strength to refuse to allow it — and the ideal body it imagines, — to have power over you. Some young people are acquiring more of this strength every day, facilitated by TikTok and Billie Eilish and other forms of internet communication I probably don’t even know about. Many are learning a vocabulary of resistance and analysis that I simply didn’t have access to, at least not until late into college.

But twenty years from now, will Gen-Zers be excavating their own relationship to TikTok’s beauty norms and midriff fetishization, to Kendall and Kylie Jenner, to Peloton and pandemic-induced eating habits, to the faux empowerment of the “Build a B*tch” video and their moms’ and grandmothers’ fitness and “wellness” routines? I mean, yes, certainly. But we could also start having those conversations now. Because as Sarah Miller puts it, “I’m pretty sure we haven’t “arrived” anywhere. And why would we have? The material conditions of being a woman have not been altered in any dramatic way, and seem to be getting worse, for everyone.”

As I’ve said before in reference to my relationship to work and burnout, I am trying to and failing and getting slightly better and backsliding all the time. The same is true with my relationship to fatphobia. That doesn’t mean the work is bullshit. It also doesn’t mean I’m “succeeding” at it, or that I don’t periodically think, like Miller, that it’s too late for us.

It just means the work is hard — but that it does gets easier, however incrementally and imperceptibly, when you don’t feel like you’re doing it alone.
still missing the point that it's ok to be undesirable but that message doesnt sell designer lingerie so...

tokin opposition
Apr 8, 2021

I don't jailbreak the androids, I set them free.

WATCH MARS EXPRESS (2023)
i have a new metric for analyzing gender:

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

JK Rowling has donated £70,000 to a feminist group to help its bid to obtain a “historic” Supreme Court ruling stating that men cannot become women.

The Harry Potter author pledged the cash to For Women Scotland, which is going to the UK’s highest court in a long-running legal battle with the Scottish Government over whether biological men can legally become female under UK law.

The group won an earlier case in which it was found that the SNP’s position that anyone who identified as a woman should be counted as one, for the purposes of gender quotas introduced for public boards, was unlawful.

However, it has lost a case which challenged rewritten guidance, which stated that biological men counted as women if they had acquired a gender recognition certificate (GRC) reflecting a female identity.

While the issue centres around Holyrood legislation intended to boost the number of women on public boards, the case will have wider ramifications for the legal status of trans people in Britain.

Rowling donated the £70,000 sum within hours of the Scottish courts granting permission for the Supreme Court appeal. So far, more than £125,000 has been raised towards the group’s estimated costs of £200,000 in an online crowdfunder.

“You know how proud I am to know you,” Rowling wrote to the group in a message after she made the donation. “Thank you for all your hard work and perseverance. This is truly a historic case.”

Writing on X, formerly Twitter, she mocked trans activists who had criticised her for making the donation.

Some attacked her for not spending that cash on something else, and argued that if For Women Scotland succeeded the case would drastically erode the legal rights of trans people.

After one X user sarcastically said she bet Rowling hadn’t asked her husband’s permission first, she joked that he had told her that the money was “coming out of next week’s housekeeping allowance”.

In a controversial ruling in December 2022, the Scottish courts found that biological men can legally become women and share in their legal protections, if they obtain a GRC.

This is mainly because the 2004 Gender Recognition Act, UK-wide legislation, states that the documents mean a person becomes a member of their “acquired” sex “for all purposes”.

However, For Women Scotland argues this was superseded by the 2010 Equality Act, in which trans women and women are treated as two protected, but distinct, groups.

The later legislation allows even trans women with GRCs to be excluded from some women’s spaces and activities, if certain conditions are met.

For Women Scotland said it had obtained legal advice indicating that it had “strong grounds” for an appeal to the Supreme Court.

The Scottish Government did not oppose the application to appeal, conceding there were “arguable points of law of general public importance”.

Ohtori Akio
Jul 15, 2022

Some Guy TT posted:

JK Rowling has donated £70,000 to a feminist group to help its bid to obtain a “historic” Supreme Court ruling stating that men cannot become women.

The Harry Potter author pledged the cash to For Women Scotland, which is going to the UK’s highest court in a long-running legal battle with the Scottish Government over whether biological men can legally become female under UK law.

The group won an earlier case in which it was found that the SNP’s position that anyone who identified as a woman should be counted as one, for the purposes of gender quotas introduced for public boards, was unlawful.

However, it has lost a case which challenged rewritten guidance, which stated that biological men counted as women if they had acquired a gender recognition certificate (GRC) reflecting a female identity.

While the issue centres around Holyrood legislation intended to boost the number of women on public boards, the case will have wider ramifications for the legal status of trans people in Britain.

Rowling donated the £70,000 sum within hours of the Scottish courts granting permission for the Supreme Court appeal. So far, more than £125,000 has been raised towards the group’s estimated costs of £200,000 in an online crowdfunder.

“You know how proud I am to know you,” Rowling wrote to the group in a message after she made the donation. “Thank you for all your hard work and perseverance. This is truly a historic case.”

Writing on X, formerly Twitter, she mocked trans activists who had criticised her for making the donation.

Some attacked her for not spending that cash on something else, and argued that if For Women Scotland succeeded the case would drastically erode the legal rights of trans people.

After one X user sarcastically said she bet Rowling hadn’t asked her husband’s permission first, she joked that he had told her that the money was “coming out of next week’s housekeeping allowance”.

In a controversial ruling in December 2022, the Scottish courts found that biological men can legally become women and share in their legal protections, if they obtain a GRC.

This is mainly because the 2004 Gender Recognition Act, UK-wide legislation, states that the documents mean a person becomes a member of their “acquired” sex “for all purposes”.

However, For Women Scotland argues this was superseded by the 2010 Equality Act, in which trans women and women are treated as two protected, but distinct, groups.

The later legislation allows even trans women with GRCs to be excluded from some women’s spaces and activities, if certain conditions are met.

For Women Scotland said it had obtained legal advice indicating that it had “strong grounds” for an appeal to the Supreme Court.

The Scottish Government did not oppose the application to appeal, conceding there were “arguable points of law of general public importance”.

not reading this

tokin opposition
Apr 8, 2021

I don't jailbreak the androids, I set them free.

WATCH MARS EXPRESS (2023)
U can tell it was written by a British "person" because it refuses to call trans women women.

Eason the Fifth
Apr 9, 2020

Some Guy TT posted:

JK Rowling has donated £70,000 to a feminist group to help its bid to obtain a “historic” Supreme Court ruling stating that men cannot become women.

The Harry Potter author pledged the cash to For Women Scotland, which is going to the UK’s highest court in a long-running legal battle with the Scottish Government over whether biological men can legally become female under UK law.

The group won an earlier case in which it was found that the SNP’s position that anyone who identified as a woman should be counted as one, for the purposes of gender quotas introduced for public boards, was unlawful.

However, it has lost a case which challenged rewritten guidance, which stated that biological men counted as women if they had acquired a gender recognition certificate (GRC) reflecting a female identity.

While the issue centres around Holyrood legislation intended to boost the number of women on public boards, the case will have wider ramifications for the legal status of trans people in Britain.

Rowling donated the £70,000 sum within hours of the Scottish courts granting permission for the Supreme Court appeal. So far, more than £125,000 has been raised towards the group’s estimated costs of £200,000 in an online crowdfunder.

“You know how proud I am to know you,” Rowling wrote to the group in a message after she made the donation. “Thank you for all your hard work and perseverance. This is truly a historic case.”

Writing on X, formerly Twitter, she mocked trans activists who had criticised her for making the donation.

Some attacked her for not spending that cash on something else, and argued that if For Women Scotland succeeded the case would drastically erode the legal rights of trans people.

After one X user sarcastically said she bet Rowling hadn’t asked her husband’s permission first, she joked that he had told her that the money was “coming out of next week’s housekeeping allowance”.

In a controversial ruling in December 2022, the Scottish courts found that biological men can legally become women and share in their legal protections, if they obtain a GRC.

This is mainly because the 2004 Gender Recognition Act, UK-wide legislation, states that the documents mean a person becomes a member of their “acquired” sex “for all purposes”.

However, For Women Scotland argues this was superseded by the 2010 Equality Act, in which trans women and women are treated as two protected, but distinct, groups.

The later legislation allows even trans women with GRCs to be excluded from some women’s spaces and activities, if certain conditions are met.

For Women Scotland said it had obtained legal advice indicating that it had “strong grounds” for an appeal to the Supreme Court.

The Scottish Government did not oppose the application to appeal, conceding there were “arguable points of law of general public importance”.

Girl power

tokin opposition
Apr 8, 2021

I don't jailbreak the androids, I set them free.

WATCH MARS EXPRESS (2023)
Girl (♂) weakness

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

On June 9, about 22,000 South Korean women marched through the streets of Seoul. The protest – reportedly the largest by women in South Korean history – focused on the proliferation of so-called “spy cams,” tiny cameras used to invade women’s privacy, filming them in toilets and up their skirts, with images often posted online. Activists say the government is not taking the issues seriously – except in the rare case where a man is the victim.

To combat this and other behavior South Korean women are taking a definitive and some say radical stand known as the 4B movement which is gaining momentum around the world.

The 4B movement also known as the “birth strike” and “marriage strike” meant to combat South Korea’s extreme patriarchal and misogynistic culture.
This wave is growing in popularity over the last several years – resulting in a serious outcome for population growth. Will this be a growing trend across the world?

South Korea currently has the world’s lowest fertility rate, with women having less than one child on average.

The drop in South Korea’s fertility rate over the past few years results from the “4B Movement,” with the B’s representing the Korean words bihon, bichulsan, biyeonae, and bisekseu for marriage, childbirth, dating, and sex respectively.

In 2019, the 4B Movement emerged in South Korea, it's been getting a lot of notice on TikTok, gaining more traction and sparking debate.

This movement's central tenets challenge deeply ingrained societal norms, advocating that women should reject the following:

Bihon: Heterosexual marriage
Bichulsan: Childbirth
Biyeonae: Dating men
Bisekseu: Heterosexual relationships
Unraveling the Roots of the 4B Movement

The 4B Movement stems from a complex mix of social, economic, and cultural factors that have created a climate of deep-seated discontent and also rage among many young South Korean women, including:

Persistent Patriarchy & Misogyny: Despite South Korea's position as a developed, modernized nation, patriarchal structures are deeply embedded in its society. Women often face discrimination in the workplace, are pressured to conform to unrealistic beauty standards (Korea is the #1 country for plastic surgery procedures), and carry a disproportionate burden of domestic labor and childcare.

Economic Hardships and Disillusionment: South Korea's hyper-competitive economy and the skyrocketing cost of living have made it increasingly difficult to form families and raise children. Many young women feel disillusioned with the lack of opportunities and the expectation that their primary role should be as wives and mothers.

The #MeToo Reckoning: The global #MeToo movement had a significant impact on South Korea, exposing widespread sexual harassment and violent assault with little reprehension or justice by authorities. This ignited a broader critique of gender inequality and inspired women to demand greater autonomy and bodily agency.

Online Feminist Communities: Social media has empowered feminist movements in South Korea. These platforms raise awareness, help share personal experiences, and organize around common causes. The 4B movement has found fertile ground in these spaces with people around the globe.
The Evolution of South Korean Feminism

The 4B movement can be understood as part of a broader trajectory within South Korean feminism.

Previous feminist movements, like the Escape the Corset movement, focused primarily on challenging unrealistic beauty standards and the objectification of women.

The 4B movement expands on this, taking a more radical stance against the entire institution of heterosexual marriage and the traditional family structure within South Korean society.

The 4B movement is not without its critics of course, with detractors arguing that it:

Is Too Extreme: Some argue that the movement's total rejection of heterosexual relationships and reproduction is too extreme and unrealistic.

Contributes to Low Fertility Rates: There are concerns that the 4B philosophy could further contribute to South Korea's alarmingly low birth rate, posing demographic challenges for the country.

Oversimplifies Complex Issues: Others find its stance overly simplistic, ignoring the diversity of women's experiences and the potential for positive partnerships with men.

There are valid concerns related to the plummeting birth and fertility rates namely the drastically changing demographic makeup of the country.

As South Korea’s population ages, there is no younger generation to balance the population demographics.

This trend is what led to the projection that over half of Korea’s population will be over the age of 65 by 2065.

This has serious implications related to Korea’s economic and military capacity.

Other countries have echoed South Korea’s “birth strike” – making it a transnational feminist movement.

Women in China have started their own “four nos” movement, causing the population to start shrinking, and Japan is also experiencing a drastically lowered birth rate because of women’s reluctance to marry and have children.

Regardless of one's opinion on its specific tenets, the 4B movement serves as a powerful, if controversial, expression of the profound frustrations of a generation of South Korean women.

It highlights the persistent gender inequalities (women still earn 30% less than men) within society and forces a public conversation about the traditional roles expected of women.

The movement also reflects a broader shift in the perception of marriage and family across many developed nations, where more individuals are opting out of traditional arrangements.

While the 4B movement may not present a universally adopted solution, it has undoubtedly placed women's rights and their desire for greater agency at the forefront of South Korea's national discourse.

The long-term impact of this movement remains to be seen, but it has set in motion a crucial debate, sparking conversations that will likely shape the future of gender relations in South Korea for years to come.

While there's no evidence of other countries formally adopting the exact 4B Movement as it exists in South Korea, themes and ideas aligned with the movement are finding resonance elsewhere:

Similar Movements: The 6B4T movement in China shares many of the 4B Movement's core tenets, with additional focuses on rejecting oppressive beauty standards and hypersexualized media depictions.

Global Feminist Concerns: Many of the issues underlying the 4B Movement – gender wage inequality, social pressure on women, objectification, exploitation, gender-based violence, misogynistic attitudes, economic hardship – are certainly not unique to South Korea. Many other women in other countries face similar challenges, albeit in varied contexts.

Changing Attitudes Towards Marriage & Family: Declining fertility rates and rising numbers of single-person households are trends seen in many developed nations like Japan and parts of Europe. This reflects changing priorities and a greater emphasis on individual choice.

Korean women, faced with precarity and vulnerability in their professional and personal lives, are increasingly rejecting the expected path of motherhood not only in a challenge to patriarchy, but in refusing to engage with the patriarchal system perpetuated through traditional understandings of marriage and family. South Korea’s patriarchal strategy to deal with its demographic security will not be effective, because Korean women have said 'enough’.

The underlying concerns and desire for greater autonomy that the 4B movement expresses are shared by women around the world and could fuel adaptations of feminist philosophy and activism tailored to the specific conditions within other nations.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

Madison Zack-Wu’s difficult childhood meant she needed to support herself from a young age. At 18, stripping became her path to financial independence, allowing her to finish high school and pursue an associate’s degree. She valued the flexibility and steady income, but she started to notice problems with her workplace.

Clubs struggled to make money, which created safety issues for dancers. The first club she worked at didn’t employ a security guard, for example.

Washington’s ban on alcohol in strip clubs made it difficult to attract customers. That meant dancers paid higher “house fees” or “rent” to use the stage -- and to help their employers cover the cost of business.

If any of the few customers there became aggressive, Zack-Wu said managers were reluctant to kick them out.

“I experienced multiple instances of it being slow, and management encouraging me to work with customers that were known to be harmful and violent even,” Zack-Wu said. “There was definitely pressure to dance with them.”

Zack-Wu said that pressure comes from regulations that make Washington one of the worst states to strip. She’s one of hundreds of dancers fighting to change that with a so-called “Strippers’ Bill of Rights” put forth by the advocacy group Strippers Are Workers.

The bill passed the state Senate and is currently being debated in the House. If adopted, advocates say it would implement some of the broadest worker protections for strippers in the nation.

The legislation would require security guards, sexual harassment training for all club employees, panic buttons, and other safety measures. It would cap fees clubs charge dancers to $150 per night or 30% of their earnings, whichever is less. And it would prevent clubs from charging dancers interest for unpaid rent.

The bill could also create a pathway to legalizing alcohol sales in strip clubs, which dancers say is essential for addressing other workplace issues.

Kasey Champion is retired from her 14-year career dancing in clubs in Washington, Oregon, and Nevada. Today she teaches computer science at the University of Washington, but she’s still active with Strippers Are Workers. She said that while it’s industry standard for clubs to charge dancers to rent the stage, those fees were more than double in the Washington clubs where she worked.

“I paid about $185 a day,” Champion said. "If I showed up that day and didn't have any cash in my pocket, and I didn't make any money, then I could put my debt down.”

She said she knew dancers who racked up thousands of dollars in debt to their employers, and that late rent was not enforced equitably.

We reached out to the owners of Washington’s major strip clubs, but none agreed to an interview. Isaac Kastama, a lobbyist representing five club owner groups also declined to comment.

In public testimony, Kastama said club owners had reservations about how realistic the training and security requirements in the bill were, but that they were broadly supportive of its goals.

“Most states have figured out ways to do this that I think have better outcomes than what we have out in Washington, so we remain optimistic,” Kastama said during the hearing.

In addition to paying stage rent, dancers in Washington are expected to tip out servers, bartenders, and security guards, according to Zack-Wu and Champion.

“You essentially get to the situation where you're paying for everything,” Champion said. “You're paying to tip the bartender, and you're paying the security guard, so he'll walk you to your car … you're literally paying the club for protection when you're already paying exorbitant fees just to get into the building to ‘rent’ your space.”

Dancers say Washington’s alcohol prohibition is at the root of these problems – and legalization is essential to solving them.

Washington is the only state in the country with a complete ban on alcohol sales in strip clubs, according to backers of the bill and industry experts. Dancers say legalizing alcohol would allow clubs to monitor service to customers and beef up security. More broadly, they say clubs would treat dancers more like partners if they could make money from selling drinks.

"Washington probably has some of the harshest restrictions, said Ariela Moscowitz, communications director at the national advocacy organization Decriminalize Sex Work. The restrictions "drastically inhibit dancers' ability to earn a living," she said.

To illustrate why the alcohol ban is a problem, Zack-Wu and Champion took me to a Seattle strip club on a recent weekend night. A bartender slung sodas while a dancer undressed on a red-lit stage. It was 10 p.m. on a Friday night, but there were only two customers in the audience.

“Without any food or drink or entertainment to sell, we are the commodity,” said Zack-Wu.

The prohibition dates back to a 1970s rule that bans establishments from holding a liquor license if there is nudity or other “lewd conduct” on their premises. The bill that passed out of the Senate instructs the state Liquor and Cannabis Board to repeal that rule, though the provision isn’t guaranteed to survive debate in the state House.

Though it may sound counterintuitive, dancers say legalizing alcohol would make them safer. That’s because customers still drink in their cars or at nearby bars, but the ban makes it impossible for clubs to monitor or stop service.

All of the strippers interviewed in this story cited nearby Portland, Oregon, as a model for what stripping could look like in Washington if the bill of rights passes.

Alcohol and food are legal in Portland strip clubs, and dancers say that brings in a broader customer base. Think fewer men on their own, and more bachelor parties and girls’ nights out.

The pandemic hit strip clubs hard, but Portland has managed to rebound where Seattle hasn’t, according to Bee, a dancer who asked to use her stage name to protect her safety and privacy.

“While we have bars near a lot of the clubs in Seattle, it's a pain for customers to have to go back and forth," she said. "As we're the only income for the clubs, they're charging us way more than necessary.”

Alcohol sales also mean dancers pay cheaper rent. Champion said her house fees in Portland were about $40 per night, and sometimes as low as $25. That’s compared to $185 per night in Seattle.

In its original form, the Senate bill preempted local regulations that further restrict stripping throughout Washington.

In King County, for example, nudity is allowed on stage only, which means dancers are technically required to get dressed before their performance is over.

There are distance requirements in several cities that prevent dancers from getting too close to customers. That means in Seattle clubs, tips must be placed in a tip jar off-stage. Clubs and dancers often bend these rules, which can make it difficult to seek help when there’s a safety incident, according to Zack-Wu.

“Pretty much as soon as we start working, we know that we're breaking laws,” she said. “If someone tips us on stage, we have broken laws. If we put our outfit back on after we perform off of stage, that is also breaking a law.

"Giving lap dances really is pretty much illegal unless you're super far away from customers. So that makes it hard. We are disempowered from the get-go."

Because the dancers are technically breaking the law, she said they don't feel empowered to call police if something bad happens. Dancers fear that law enforcement could say they are to blame because they got too close to the customer in the first place.

The bill has evolved since it was introduced. In its original form, state law would override local regulations, like the distance requirements Zack-Wu referenced. That language didn't survive the legislative process. But the bill was modified so that it sets a new standard, one that its backers hope cities and counties will follow.

The rule that makes it impossible for strip clubs to serve alcohol is the same one that sparked controversy last month when it became the subject of law enforcement investigations of several queer bars. Though no citations were issued, inspectors warned managers about violations of the rule, like a male bartender’s exposed nipple.

Repealing the rule has become a common cause among activists in the stripper and LGBTQ communities. Both are calling for it to be overturned, which the Liquor and Cannabis Board is considering. Brian Smith, communications director for the board, said a vote is expected in the next month or so but even if it is repealed, the future of alcohol in strip clubs would remain unclear without a direct order from the state legislature.

Strippers Are Workers and activists from the queer community are holding a demonstration on the Capitol steps Monday to pressure house lawmakers not to let the bill die. It’s scheduled for a vote in the house labor committee Tuesday, which will determine whether or not it advances.

We reached out to each of the 20 lawmakers who vote against the bill before it was ultimately approved by the Senate, but none would elaborate on their position.

“So many dancers now, and so many dancers in the future, will be people like me who have really amazing and good reasons to be stripping and will need to go into strip clubs,” Zack-Wu said.

“I don't think the industry is innately bad, but the Washington industry absolutely is not where it should be. None of the dancers who are coming in should have to go through the things that I, and so many of my other co-workers have gone through. We need to change that, and I'm really hoping that we do this year.”

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

i say swears online
Mar 4, 2005

Articles too long. User loses posting privileges for 6 hours.

Karach
May 23, 2003

no war but class war

i say swears online posted:

Articles too long. User loses posting privileges for 6 hours.

good shoot

Majorian
Jul 1, 2009

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

I think this is the right thread for this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZaWnQ9HXZA

Good video that covers a lot more ground than the title suggests. The end is pretty heavy, though - sounds like she went through some bad poo poo.:smith:

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/why-are-women-freezing-their-eggs-look-to-the-men/ar-AA1gIA38

what really fascinates me about these kinds of stories is how alien they seem to my own experiences and the sort of men i know like sure i knew guys like that in my slash their twenties but im not sure ive ever actually met or known any commitment phobic men since they or i have turned like thirty so the idea that literally every man out there just hates the idea of becoming a father is something i have trouble wrapping my head around

unless of course our dating culture is built around toxic incentives that actively skew our perceptions but thats such a crazy idea i feel silly even suggesting it as a possible explanation

Some Guy TT has issued a correction as of 03:11 on Feb 26, 2024

Ohtori Akio
Jul 15, 2022
not gonna click that

tokin opposition
Apr 8, 2021

I don't jailbreak the androids, I set them free.

WATCH MARS EXPRESS (2023)
Good call it's just "why aren't people having kids???????????" with a fresh spin of blaming it on the author's imaginary understanding of men. Skip it

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.

tokin opposition posted:

Good call it's just "why aren't people having kids???????????" with a fresh spin of blaming it on the author's imaginary understanding of men. Skip it

Yeah so much of it comes down to how when you're physically incapable of recognising material conditions you have to blame all the problems on the nearest acceptable scapegoat

Some Guy TT
Aug 30, 2011

17 reasons men dont date anymore

reason #13 theres so many men on dating apps they feel like its not worth the effort

Ohtori Akio
Jul 15, 2022

tokin opposition posted:

Good call it's just "why aren't people having kids???????????" with a fresh spin of blaming it on the author's imaginary understanding of men. Skip it

lol you read it

tokin opposition
Apr 8, 2021

I don't jailbreak the androids, I set them free.

WATCH MARS EXPRESS (2023)

Ohtori Akio posted:

lol you read it

I skimmed it in case it went terf.

Ohtori Akio
Jul 15, 2022

tokin opposition posted:

I skimmed it in case it went terf.

you nodded along to every word

Goa Tse-tung
Feb 11, 2008

;3

Yams Fan

Ohtori Akio posted:

you nodded along to every word

*nods along reading this*

One More Fat Nerd
Apr 13, 2007

Mama’s Lil’ Louie

Nap Ghost

Some Guy TT posted:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/why-are-women-freezing-their-eggs-look-to-the-men/ar-AA1gIA38

what really fascinates me about these kinds of stories is how alien they seem to my own experiences and the sort of men i know like sure i knew guys like that in my slash their twenties but im not sure ive ever actually met or known any commitment phobic men since they or i have turned like thirty so the idea that literally every man out there just hates the idea of becoming a father is something i have trouble wrapping my head around

unless of course our dating culture is built around toxic incentives that actively skew our perceptions but thats such a crazy idea i feel silly even suggesting it as a possible explanation

Eh, when you're talking about single dudes in the mid-thirties and older, you probably do have a much better chance of running into either commitment-phobes (the serially single) or commitment-failures (the divorced).

If you're single but successful at/open to commitment as a dude past like, 35, you're probably a widower, and those dudes get snatched up quick.

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StashAugustine
Mar 24, 2013

Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

is being socially incompetent better or worse here? Asking for a friend

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