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Also do I understand correctly that levelups do not affect anything beyond what you specifically get on that wheel? As in no HP/stats increase. And from I've seen character level is never used in any calculations, the closest you see is "number of archetypes" which changes very rarely. I like this approach. Even games focused on tactical choices still feel like they must provide some numbers-go-up elements to their systems. It often ends up feeling like the only point behind this stat creep is level gating which is often obsolete in structured games like most modern RPGs.
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Feb 24, 2024 19:44
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ilitarist posted:Also do I understand correctly that levelups do not affect anything beyond what you specifically get on that wheel? As in no HP/stats increase. And from I've seen character level is never used in any calculations, the closest you see is "number of archetypes" which changes very rarely. There's an affect on HP, but to my knowledge that's the only level-derived stat. It's a relatively small effect though compared to increasing your Toughness or taking the talents that give more HP.
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Feb 24, 2024 19:51
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CommissarMega posted:This might be a 'different strokes for different folks' situation; I found BG3's level up system too basic, the upgrades too samey. RT having a whole bunch of class-unique upgrades keyed to different attributes was much better suited to my tastes. That said, it's good to see you had a good time with the game! I agree that RT has a bunch of really cool upgrades. Even in the first tier you have amazing, transformative "capstone" style talents. Sadly it also has a ton of chaff, and searching through that gets exhausting. For a moment there I considered also criticizing that RT didn't give you any reason NOT to pick up all the fun "capstones", didn't make you pick and choose, but you know what? gently caress that jazz, I'm totally here for getting to pick every single talent that appeals to me. Xun posted:I really really want to be able to respec from specific levels because goddamn if I realize I dont like a choice I made 2 levels ago I need to start from the very beginning and hope I remembered to write down what I picked before. It just feels really hard to experiment because it's such a pain Just show me the whole list of talents again, I unselect one I've selected previously and select a new one, donezo. (Run a sanity check for prerequisites etc before you let me confirm my choice, whatever.) Griddle of Love fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Feb 24, 2024 |
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Feb 24, 2024 20:10
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I got a new voiced companion interaction -- having started over, I just picked up Pasqal and while I was running over to pick up a goods box, Abelard thanked him quite familiarly for having done repairs on his old augmentic knees. Fast worker 
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Feb 24, 2024 20:21
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I can't really describe Act 4 as anything better then half baked. I'm curious, is Quezta Temar actually a coherent map or is then some really dumb RNG for which exits take you where?
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Feb 24, 2024 23:14
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Xun posted:I really really want to be able to respec from specific levels because goddamn if I realize I dont like a choice I made 2 levels ago I need to start from the very beginning and hope I remembered to write down what I picked before. It just feels really hard to experiment because it's such a pain I hit repec on a guy at level 45 and it almost made me stop playing the game entirely, jesus christ it was tedious. Sitting trying to choose if I want 3% more dodge reduction or a 4% change to cover effectiveness. And that was only going thought about 30 levels. I am genuinely baffled why people would think it's a good system, there are effectively no choices as you end up with all the abilities and are deep at the bottom of the talent barrel by the end. Just tell me why my Heavy Bolter, listed 6-9 danage is inexplicably doing 150+ damage a shot please. I don't think any of my talents give me a 2500% damage buff but how wound I know even if they did. Aramoro fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Feb 24, 2024 |
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Feb 24, 2024 23:22
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Aramoro posted:Just tell me why my Heavy Bolter, listed 6-9 danage is inexplicably doing 150+ damage a shot please. I don't think any of my talents give me a 2500% damage buff but how wound I know even if they did.
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Feb 24, 2024 23:25
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The heavy bolter damage is all coming from stacking BS sky high.
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Feb 24, 2024 23:25
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pentyne posted:I can't really describe Act 4 as anything better then half baked. A particular exit will always take you to the same location; it’s easier to figure out once you’ve already finished it and they start naming the maps they take you to. If you’re lazy just right hand rule from the very beginning and you’ll get there in like 6 Mao transitions.
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Feb 24, 2024 23:45
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Aramoro posted:I hit repec on a guy at level 45 and it almost made me stop playing the game entirely, jesus christ it was tedious. Sitting trying to choose if I want 3% more dodge reduction or a 4% change to cover effectiveness. And that was only going thought about 30 levels. I am genuinely baffled why people would think it's a good system, there are effectively no choices as you end up with all the abilities and are deep at the bottom of the talent barrel by the end. What does the combat log say?
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Feb 25, 2024 02:52
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drat, I can't even tell if Quezta Temar is fixed from patches or still bugged to hell. All I know is despite passing a ton of skill checks I ended up not getting any better options to resolve the main quest. Death is the only option for those who stand in my way.
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Feb 25, 2024 07:13
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pentyne posted:Death is the only option for those who stand in my way. That IS the 40k way.
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Feb 25, 2024 09:42
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lol make sure to check your stat sheet from time to time
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Feb 25, 2024 19:07
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Why are my characters and the enemy built on 2 completely different health scales? Most of my characters have around 100ish wounds (even the Space Marine only has like 250 wounds) and my Master Helmsman as an NPC has 450 while normal enemies have 600+(and those aren't even real boss enemies).
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Feb 25, 2024 20:30
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ulmont posted:Why are my characters and the enemy built on 2 completely different health scales? Some of it is affected by difficulty, and most of it is because enemies just don't have the same suite of tools your party does. Even most meatshield enemies get taken down in a round or two by a properly specced and equipped party, and even after the nerfs to the Officer class they're still a very potent force multiplier depending on your team.
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Feb 25, 2024 21:33
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CommissarMega posted:Some of it is affected by difficulty, and most of it is because enemies just don't have the same suite of tools your party does. …but they do. Or at least they could. It’s a weird design choice, I think.
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Feb 25, 2024 21:45
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ulmont posted:…but they do. Or at least they could. It’s a weird design choice, I think. Maybe? There's key differences between the AI experience and the player experience: 1. Players often have the pre-initiative turn and a suite of tools to spin up ability interactions quickly--the quintessential example being getting an Arch Militant 4+ stacks of Versatility before initiative formally starts by using officer turns. 2. Players are always outnumbered except for bosses, who often have minions anyway, in a game where racking up kills is actually a major part of how power scales. Point two is the more interesting of the two because there's a thought experiment where we ask ourselves what if we made RT more RT by giving you a gaggle of idiots to lead around and
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Feb 25, 2024 21:54
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ulmont posted:…but they do. Or at least they could. It’s a weird design choice, I think. Yes, also cheating to give major enemies auto attacks, special extra turns, permanent buffs(the Act 3 enemies with 50% dmg reduction come to mind). I fought the boss for Idira's Door quest and even with killing him in a single round he was getting 4 extra turns for whatever reason, spamming heals and buffs all over the place. The 'gimmick' seemed to be you have to kill him in a single attack to prevent that. This is sort of the biggest problem with Owlcat all the way back to Kingmaker. At any substantial difficulty your play-style options are essentially "kill the enemies in one round" and the action economy is so essential that enemies going first can easily be a party wipe. For Rogue Trader I would say that playing with an Officer/Grand Strategist is probably mandatory for high difficulty. Rogue Trader has some interesting steps forward in that thought process, to make battles that have timing mechanics or gimmicks that require more then overwhelming force. The overall vibe however is they made a small attempt at it and immediately reverted to insane enemy stat/HP inflation as challenge.
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Feb 25, 2024 21:59
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Having the player and the enemies always follow the exact same rules always leads to a heap of design issues down the line.
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Feb 25, 2024 22:02
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Warmachine posted:Maybe? There's key differences between the AI experience and the player experience:
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Feb 25, 2024 22:10
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Nessus posted:Interestingly, I once used an Officer action on a friendly NPC (I think early on when you're retaking the ship) and it worked! the NPC just did another attack, but it was functional. I did that on a 'powerful' NPC who would have been a miniboss if he had not joined my side, and he killed 3 enemies in his single turn, doing like 80 dmg a shot on burst. My only reaction was "how the gently caress would I stop him as an enemy?"
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Feb 25, 2024 22:15
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Jack Trades posted:Having the player and the enemies always follow the exact same rules always leads to a heap of design issues down the line. They don’t have to follow the same rules, but it’s very weird to see normal enemies using a completely different hp scale than the characters.
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Feb 25, 2024 22:27
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Is it? I feel like that's how it is in most video games.
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Feb 25, 2024 22:47
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Blockhouse posted:Is it? I feel like that's how it is in most video games. No it absolutely is, think of any jrpg where your party has a couple thousand HP and enemy bosses are in the hundred k/millions. That requires a completely different type of balance, probably making the enemies have their own special system. All the ttrpg based stuff is trying to operate everything under the same rule set because that's the way it is, but a lot of ttrpg systems are trash wrt balance.
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Feb 25, 2024 23:07
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Blockhouse posted:Is it? I feel like that's how it is in most video games. I guess it feels weird since otherwise the enemies do seem to be on the same scale as the characters and often use the same/similar powers and weapons/armor.
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Feb 25, 2024 23:29
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pentyne posted:No it absolutely is, think of any jrpg where your party has a couple thousand HP and enemy bosses are in the hundred k/millions. And honestly, they can be because there's a human in the loop able to make judgement calls on what is fun and what is not. See also the entire history of House Rules in TTRPGs. "Close enough" works in tabletop, but it doesn't work for video games where you're at the mercy of whatever the developers provide and any 'house rules' are the exclusive purview of mods.
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Feb 25, 2024 23:36
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ulmont posted:Why are my characters and the enemy built on 2 completely different health scales? Because this is JRPG.
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Feb 26, 2024 07:53
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ulmont posted:I guess it feels weird since otherwise the enemies do seem to be on the same scale as the characters and often use the same/similar powers and weapons/armor. The funniest example I've seen so far was a boss with 6000 hp but hit for 0-40 damage. Just zero threat to my party but a huge bullet sponge.
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Feb 26, 2024 09:38
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I'll weigh in that I feel it is a bad call to do it in JRPG scales for a combat system that's meant to be tactical, it is just bad gamefeel and throws off an intuitive sense of the simulation. Like all the games I'd say have great tactical combat mostly have enemies on a similar scale of health and damage as the ones under player control, with the exception of bosses. I am thinking like XCOM, Troubleshooters, Battle Brothers or the Larian and RadCodex RPGs.
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Feb 26, 2024 15:11
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But none of these games goes for a simulationist feel (except maybe Battle Brothers, to a degree). All of them have characters, both yours and enemies, eating headshots for breakfast. I'd understand if we were talking about Jagged Alliance or something like that, but this is a world of magic and implants and chainsaw swords so it doesn't feel wrong for characters to work on different scales. From what I've seen you still encounter cannon fodder enemies and they justify a lot of abilities and tactics that wouldn't work if the game had just buffed enemy stats. Of course I was joking about it being JRPG but WH40K is close enough to technoscience settings favored by JRPGs for similar conventions to work. Also the game structured in a very restrictive way similar to JRPGs. Unlike, say, Bethesda games or classic Fallout/Arcanum games, or their modern games in this vein like Divinity Original Sin 1/2, BG3, Wasteland 2/3, or Encased you can't attack just anyone. That is probably what you mean?.. In the games I've listed everyone exists in the world in the quantified state, yet in most RPGs (made by BioWare, CDPR or Owlcat) every fight is staged and there's no need to have a universal system describing everyone you meet, enemies are separate entities working by their own rules. Also I'm glad to finally see in the wild someone who likes RadCodex RPGs. I don't get them but they are curious.
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Feb 26, 2024 15:49
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ZearothK posted:I'll weigh in that I feel it is a bad call to do it in JRPG scales for a combat system that's meant to be tactical, it is just bad gamefeel and throws off an intuitive sense of the simulation. Like all the games I'd say have great tactical combat mostly have enemies on a similar scale of health and damage as the ones under player control, with the exception of bosses. I am thinking like XCOM, Troubleshooters, Battle Brothers or the Larian and RadCodex RPGs. Like...pretty much all of the games you mentioned have enemies with several times the health of the fattest unit the player can possibly control, which is the same scale the poster who started this discussion was complaining about.
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Feb 26, 2024 15:56
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Having enemies operate on the same exact mechanics and scale as the player would require the encounter designer to have a thorough knowledge of game mechanics and how build choices interact with one another in order to craft the ideal experience. Given the sort of “recommended” choices you get on level up in this game and especially their previous games like WotR, that is a huge ask.
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Feb 26, 2024 17:50
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It's also really, really hard to ride that knife edge of a good player experience if the enemies have the same scaling as the player. There's a delicate balance of challenging but also not too obscenely hard. Think chess bots, but it would have to be way more complex. It's way easier to adjust encounters via giving the enemies more or less hp/damage/abilities than the player.
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Feb 26, 2024 18:37
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Preechr posted:Having enemies operate on the same exact mechanics and scale as the player would require the encounter designer to have a thorough knowledge of game mechanics and how build choices interact with one another in order to craft the ideal experience. Given the sort of “recommended” choices you get on level up in this game and especially their previous games like WotR, that is a huge ask. No, the encounter designers have a solid grasp on the mechanics, they just design against assuming the players run near fully optimized parties at all times. RT is a lot better in this regard then KM or WOTR but that's mostly due to the lack of trash fights and being able to eliminate Vancian casting mechanics. The recommended leveling up choices for WOTR were so bad for certain characters its more likely someone entering that information made data entry errors.
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Feb 26, 2024 18:48
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Lore question from Act 1: So when Cassia talks about suddenly not being able to see the Astronomicon, does that mean the big rift poo poo JUST happened and the Expanse is in the dark part of the Imperium? Wouldn’t that make Navigation impossible or just way shittier?
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Feb 26, 2024 18:55
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Nessus posted:Lore question from Act 1: So when Cassia talks about suddenly not being able to see the Astronomicon, does that mean the big rift poo poo JUST happened and the Expanse is in the dark part of the Imperium? Wouldn’t that make Navigation impossible or just way shittier? The Koronus Expanse is set in Imperium Nihilus, the dark side of the galaxy, and was also extremely hard to get to even before the Great Rift via a single passage into the region. This is the Big Lore Event that the most recent tabletop editions introduced, and it's pretty vague as to how the specifics work in general. It's mentioned in the game that the Astronomican is extremely faint but still visible, and that it means having to take a lot more shorter jumps then one long jump. It can't make warp travel impossible because otherwise all human civilization just up and collapses in a matter of months.
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Feb 26, 2024 19:40
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Logical enough. Explains why you have to limp star to star until she’s learned enough to make direct routes.
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Feb 26, 2024 22:33
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pentyne posted:The Koronus Expanse is set in Imperium Nihilus, the dark side of the galaxy, and was also extremely hard to get to even before the Great Rift via a single passage into the region. This all makes the extreme level of interest The Inquisition has in the events of this game quite weird. The imperium is going through the most traumatic event in its history basically since the death of big E And they're spending an insane amount of resources on a place that was a backwater even when things were going relatively well.
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Feb 27, 2024 02:02
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Yeah, cuz they're bad and dumb! The longer explanation is that the calixis sector is built on the bones of an alien hell empire, visited by terrible omens, and home to more weirdos and inquisitors and weird inquisitors than you can shake a witch needle at. I'm pretty sure at least four factions in the inquisition are trying to destroy the sector for various reasons. Koronus is adjacent to this xanatos pileup intrigue setting and so outrageous behavior from the inquisition is par for the course. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Feb 27, 2024 |
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Feb 27, 2024 02:09
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Eifert Posting posted:This all makes the extreme level of interest The Inquisition has in the events of this game quite weird. OTOH any resources that were already in this backwater can’t leave.
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Feb 27, 2024 02:10
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