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MJeff posted:I thought sunsetting was the thing that got him booted upstairs. Huh. sunsetting was the final straw because it happened while he was in charge but he was booted for a lot of other reasons, mostly things like the fractaline donation drive haveblue posted:It's more that because sunsetting only hit power level, it left them usable in every mode that didn't use power level, including most of crucible, so it didn't accomplish the goal in the first place yes, that's what i meant: nuking their power level did not solve their issues, they were still too powerful as weapons and required targeted nerfs anyway
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Feb 26, 2024 16:17
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Fractaline donation drive sounds vaguely familiar but I don't remember the details.
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Feb 26, 2024 16:18
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MJeff posted:Fractaline donation drive sounds vaguely familiar but I don't remember the details. It was one of the activities in season 9 (Dawn). Fractaline was the seasonal resource you used to buy vendor upgrades, and near the end of the season they unlocked a place to spend unlimited amounts of it after you buy everything else. Once we hit a collective goal, we unlocked a cutscene announcing that trials was coming back
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Feb 26, 2024 16:21
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Was that also the season with Corridors of Time that everybody got really mad at for some reason?
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Feb 26, 2024 16:30
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MJeff posted:Fractaline donation drive sounds vaguely familiar but I don't remember the details. Luke Smith chasing that Scarab Lord high.
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Feb 26, 2024 16:31
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MJeff posted:Fractaline donation drive sounds vaguely familiar but I don't remember the details. you could donate fractaline 10 at a time there was a community goal to hit 10 million fractaline donated to reach any meaningful amount of fractaline donated you would have to spend days' worth of hours sitting in the menu, pressing the donation button for 3 seconds at a time (numbers may be off but that's the gist of it)
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Feb 26, 2024 16:32
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sunday at work posted:Luke Smith chasing that Scarab Lord high. It’s always some WoW sicko spreading their madness to others.
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Feb 26, 2024 16:38
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Yeah, it was a "community goal", so given the numbers involved no one person had a prayer of making a noticeable impact. There was also some kind of confusing investment mechanic so you could max your gains by timing your donationsMJeff posted:Was that also the season with Corridors of Time that everybody got really mad at for some reason? People got mad at it because the reward was unlocking the seasonal exotic a week early, the exotic that was already on the calendar and then handed out to everyone afterward
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Feb 26, 2024 16:39
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Kith posted:
Imo the developers listen to their community but management won't listen to them and greenlight the changes that need to be made
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Feb 26, 2024 17:39
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lol fractaline sounds insane when you describe it but it also perfectly summarizes how mentally ill the community is
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Feb 26, 2024 18:07
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SgtSteel91 posted:Imo the developers listen to their community but management won't listen to them and greenlight the changes that need to be made I don't know about this. What reason would executives have to care at all?
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Feb 26, 2024 18:08
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Nobody actually knows the internal workings at Bungie except the employees, and I'm not aware of anything explicitly stated, so everything is reading into less explicit statements. There's a general consensus that management at Bungie focuses on monetization and increasing playtime metrics, while developers want to focus on gameplay and community feedback, the former gets prioritized over the latter most of the time. Ultimately it's hard to say, but that certainly matches every software gig I've ever worked, so I can absolutely believe it.
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Feb 26, 2024 18:13
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EVGA Longoria posted:Nobody actually knows the internal workings at Bungie except the employees, and I'm not aware of anything explicitly stated, so everything is reading into less explicit statements. I thought that between Paul Tassi and Jason Schreier a bunch of this was confirmed from multiple sources (especially after the layoffs). Seems like we know pretty well how execs behaved with regard to community concerns raised by devs. We also know how horribly they shot themselves in the foot with regard to blowing through the huge ball of cash that Sony coughed up. We know how stupidly the bungie execs set revenue expectations such that they fell so far below them that there is almost total certainty they will trigger clauses that will punt existing management and cause bungie to be fully absorbed into SIE. IMHO, we know a LOT about internal workings, and it's been a shitshow.
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Feb 26, 2024 18:21
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Finster Dexter posted:We know how stupidly the bungie execs set revenue expectations such that they fell so far below them that there is almost total certainty they will trigger clauses that will punt existing management and cause bungie to be fully absorbed into SIE. We still don't have the full story on that, as far as I know, and I don't expect we ever will because it's all critical business info. The projections being wildly unrealistic and the rank and file being punished for it is one possibility. It's also likely that Lightfall accidentally made the game significantly less appealing than it used to be, drove off a lot of player hours and dollars, and disrupted the trends they were projecting from. Or the game has been going downhill for a long time and it only just now became an emergency I remember someone posted a Steam usage graph implying that users were holding steady until this year's seasons, which would imply option 2, but usage isn't necessarily spending, and again, we aren't going to know for sure without access to Bungie's real financials
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Feb 26, 2024 18:28
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I am confused personally about how the changes to light level (i.e. it not increasing season to season) is helping with engagement. For me at least it was a reason to do pinnacles, because the extra light helped for the tougher things on the season pass and getting other activities done. It was dumb busy work but this is a live service game - beyond the first time you complete an activity, it's all dumb busy work. Now I log in and everything is weirdly flattened, like being at cap doesn't matter because all of the activities are capped at 5 or 10 under, whatever you are. There doesn't seem to be any point, and I say that as a player who used to drive myself mad trying to unlock everything I could. I want to play more Destiny, at least I want to play more of a version of Destiny that I don't think really exists any more.
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Feb 26, 2024 19:20
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What I personally don't get is axing the light grind for season-to-season with all the stuff they've stated and changes to activities to be all delta-based....but then they're still going to have a power increase in The Final Shape. Like why bother? Doubly so with some of the changes they're making to grouping so that it drags lower players up or whatever. But to me, the light grind has always felt kind of dumb because unlike item level and similar in MMOs, it felt very minimal in actually creating a sense of a power climb? Stuff like WoW it was kind of fun to be decked out at the end of an expansion and stomp all over early expansion content, or to suddenly be powerful enough to go solo stuff from an expansion or two prior. The power deltas in Destiny were often significant to make activities notably easier, but also not really in an exciting way?
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Feb 26, 2024 19:36
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Kith posted:you could donate fractaline 10 at a time I seriously doubt that’s a bigger scandal than sunsetting in terms of what lead to the ousting of Luke Smith.
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Feb 26, 2024 22:19
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yeah fractaline was a whiff but it was gone at the end of the season (in year 3 seasonal content was deleted on changeover, every 3 months) and sunsetting had and still does have major implications for the entire rest of the game's lifespan
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Feb 26, 2024 22:22
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I just give my spirit energy to goku now instead.
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Feb 26, 2024 22:28
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Majere posted:I just give my spirit energy to goku now instead. Donating all that Fractalene just to unlock Trials does feel a lot like seven episodes of Goku charging a spirit bomb and then missing.
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Feb 26, 2024 22:33
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is it too late to undonate the Fractalene?
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Feb 26, 2024 22:36
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Was the Destiny Content Vault brought to us by Luke Smith or was that someone else’s idea?
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Feb 26, 2024 22:36
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it was my idea actually
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Feb 26, 2024 22:40
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It was the Witness's idea to have the darkness eat the planets
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Feb 26, 2024 22:40
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haveblue posted:sunsetting had and still does have major implications for the entire rest of the game's lifespan Such as? Making streamers and redditors upset? Not cutting down the game’s file size nearly as much? Making elements of the game feel disposable?
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Feb 26, 2024 22:49
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I just miss my Steelfeather Repeater  .
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Feb 26, 2024 23:13
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i miss my y1 better devils
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Feb 26, 2024 23:27
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Pirate Jet posted:I seriously doubt that’s a bigger scandal than sunsetting in terms of what lead to the ousting of Luke Smith. didn't say it was bigger than sunsetting, just an example of the trend. players had been getting more and more dissatisfied with the direction the game was taking and the grind getting bigger and bigger and player retention was reflecting that dissatisfaction. sunsetting was dumb but it absolutely was not the entire reason luke smith was kicked upstairs. sunsetting was not luke smith's brainchild, he just put the stamp of approval on it.
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Feb 26, 2024 23:42
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omg chael crash posted:i miss my y1 better devils Sounds like a dumb name for a gun, op
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Feb 26, 2024 23:54
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Sounds like a dumb name for a gun, op sure, go grind out your holgers and Proteuses
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Feb 27, 2024 00:27
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I apparently have a whopping nine (9) items without origin traits, so safe to say origin traits worked as a bit of a soft sunset in a good way. I still have: My OG Horror Story (Killing Wind/Demo) Nightwatch (Overflow/EP) because it was given to me when I started the game Rose from comp, which doesn't really count Spoiler Alert (FF/Swash) because iunno I just like it and it got me through a lot of content Gridskipper (KW/Frenzy) because I like rapid fires and it's void Quickfang (Tireless/OFA) same as Nightwatch but was my first purple heavy My PvP Horror Story (ZenMo/Rampage), I use whatever for PvP so this thing have like 200+ PvP kills on the tracker is a big deal for my guns lol Salvager's Salvo Ascendency I really gotta stop collecting 450 Kinetic ARs tho. They're just so nice. I need a better Breakneck roll tho. Onslaught good, Eye of the Storm does not proc nearly well enough in PvE for me. Anywho, who is looking forward to the new Trials updates? The card that "checkpoints" at three wins is pretty neat, so you get three and then you can just trial (lol) and error til you manage the rest in a row. Looking forward to it not being real flawless tho  Also Prophecy loot is being refreshed, so I plan on jumping into that. First dungeon I did and it's fun and we have it down pretty well, so should just be a fun time.
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Feb 27, 2024 01:45
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I think that LL increases outside of expansions are dumb and bad, but I enjoy questing through the campaign and watching number go up. It makes the rewards at the end of the mission feel like they matter a little more and keeps the hamster wheel going. It is a shooter-looter/rpg so if they totally gutted LL i feel like we'd lose a bit of what makes destiny destiny. It also means I'll log in and really engage with the content, which I don't mind around expansion drops since there's usually SO MUCH to do with the post campaign quests and such. This is also coming from someone who clears 2 characters for contest, so brother, I really engage in that content. I think I cleared Callus like 5 or 6 times that first weekend between my 2 characters, the contest squad and various friends. LL feels really bad during the rest of the year where its just the seasonal stuff coming out and feels like a manufactured way to get me to engage. I do like where they are going to use the highest LL fireteam member to set the fireteams LL so you can bring your friends into whatever you do. I am a relative Destiny baby, starting a few weeks after DSC dropped in BL so I have no opinion on sunsetting but sure would pay 30bux for an updated Red War campaign with a pass over spawns and a Legendary mode. Didn't they say Strike scoring was coming in? Like bro, slap a leaderboard together or a fuckin Raider.IO/NightfallI.IO metric together and let us run strikes for time and points please good lord. Being glowiest boy in the tower for guardian games was actually a thing I did just for content (shout out Squirel,Kil,Ng). Put that poo poo back
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Feb 27, 2024 03:27
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Bungie realized they'd have to make loot in order to sell expansions and they called it the "10th Better Devils problem" I think they do a lot of stuff really well, but some of the things that totally flummox them seem to be non issues to the rest of the game dev world
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Feb 27, 2024 04:33
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I think mountaintop, lunas howl etc got nerfed before Sunsetting. Sunsetting wasn't meant to fix those guns specifically, but it seemed like their idea for how to make it "safe" to design future generations of mountaintops and recluses and such That's why the Sundial guns were such bad rear end mother fuckers; bungie designed them to self destruct after 9 months Sunsetting still exists and it's called Seasonal Artifact Mods
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Feb 27, 2024 04:37
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:I think mountaintop, lunas howl etc got nerfed before Sunsetting. they did not, and the patch notes reflect this. they received several targeted nerfs well after sunsetting because they were still the best picks in crucible. there was also some PvE stuff that they overwhelmingly excelled at but that was less fo an issue because of how long it took for stuff like that to kick in since the power dropped off e: off of the top of my head, mountaintop's utterly abysmal in-air accuracy was added way later because people just kept using it to solve crucible engagements Kith fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Feb 27, 2024 |
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Feb 27, 2024 04:52
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Sunsetting still exists and it's called Seasonal Artifact Mods They need to move like 3/4 of the artifact mods we've had to fragments or aspects already. Chance of freezing people on shield break is something that we should just always have like dang, it's so basic. I get the really boss stuff would probably break stuff, but also the solo damage boost should just be always on imo. Monochromatic Maestro too.
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Feb 27, 2024 05:04
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Kith posted:they did not, and the patch notes reflect this. they received several targeted nerfs well after sunsetting because they were still the best picks in crucible. there was also some PvE stuff that they overwhelmingly excelled at but that was less fo an issue because of how long it took for stuff like that to kick in since the power dropped off I'm sure there were additional nerfs after sun setting, but I know they announced the big mountaintop nerf before it was sunset. I've been beating the drum of "sunsetting is to help them make new loot, not to nerf existing loot" for as long as sunsetting has been a concept so I remember digging into the TWAB timeline a bit. If you care to look it up it's probably like October 2020 that they went over the mountaintop nerf and then beyond light / sunsetting was a couple months later Luna/NF nerfs were probably multiple seasons prior to sunsetting. I bet the timeline is hard to track because sunsetting was announced like 8 months before it actually happened, and a lot of people didn't understand what it was or why bungie would do it!
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Feb 27, 2024 06:40
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also quite frankly seasonal artifact mods ruin buildcrafting because there's like three or four exotic-tier buffs that everyone gets from them and it makes a lot of the gameplay experiences very samey between classes. compared to the itemization of other ARPGs, destiny's is pathetically bad and absurdly basic due to universal buffs homogenizing gameplay experiences that aren't particularly different in the first place because exotic effects are so frequently limited there are of course exceptions to this rule and unique synergies do exist but they're frequently underwhelming in scale and scope compared to something like diablo or borderlands or even loving division
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Feb 27, 2024 06:45
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Yeah I agree with that. I was thinking that things like "These five origin traits do 25% bonus damage this season" are like the new form of sunsetting. So many systems are redesigned in a way that they seem gone (seasonal power climb) but they're still there (complete rituals to grind xp to retain your lost seasonal power bonus)
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Feb 27, 2024 06:46
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Sunset was not meant to do one thing and not the other, it was meant to solve multiple problems they were confronting at the same time. Fix balance outliers. Periodically free up design space to introduce new guns. Reduce the emphasis that had to be placed on long-term sandbox stability. Incentivize people to change up their builds more often and play with the new toys. syntaxfunction posted:I get the really boss stuff would probably break stuff, but also the solo damage boost should just be always on imo. There is already a sort of implicit solo damage boost in the activities that scale difficulty with fireteam size, but that's not every activity in the game
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Feb 27, 2024 06:49
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