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What are you all talking about, I'm super hyped for Young Avengers with Hawkeye and Ms. Marvel and Yelena. I want everything to lead up to that, now EDIT: The Hawkeyest 
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Feb 27, 2024 07:03
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Timby posted:I mean, this is basically what Deadpool & Wolverine is doing, and they already had Kelsey Grammer Beast in The Marvels. Yeah, a lot could change for the better after Deadpool & Wolverine. That's a double Ironman movie in terms of appeal and recognizably of both leads at this point. It just needs to be followed by something that ties to Deadpool or Wolverine in a reasonable time frame. Like, either character would be the perfect vehicle for getting the masses to see a new X-men movie, or Avengers for that sake, and then the ball would be rolling again. Attack on Princess fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Feb 27, 2024 |
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Feb 27, 2024 11:32
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Zefiel posted:What are you all talking about, I'm super hyped for Young Avengers with Hawkeye and Ms. Marvel and Yelena. I want everything to lead up to that, now Word. That other poster is always a complete moron but they really outdid themselves this time. I'd take Kate and Yelena over Natasha and Clint any day, it ain't even close.
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Feb 27, 2024 12:52
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The only thing that worries me about all these younger characters they are introducing, is that I worry that they haven't planned out the end point for them. And I say this as someone who really likes this crop of youngsters they are assembling. See, you can only really expect to get a decade out of each actor. Maybe more if you space their appearances out, but that causes its own problems as we've been discussing. But 10 years or so. The question then, is what do you do with the character at that point? Cap and Tony both had perfect endings, Tony making the big sacrifice play, Steve getting this happy ever after well-earned dance with Peggy. One's dead, one's magically aged into retirement. Hawkeye is old enough and with the family realistically just retired from all this nonsense, and got a nice series handing off the mantle to another. Widow got to sacrifice herself to save the universe and then a belated solo film to hand off her mantle too. Loki, iffy start to season 2 aside, got a perfect ending where he completes his arc from pain in the arse trickster villain to essential lynchpin of the multiverse. In the comics, it's never an issue (yet simultaneously always an issue) because it's forever set in the now. 60 years of history that somehow is always just 5 - 10 years of history and another few decades of milking that character who they never let age. In the MCU, people age in real time and it was the "no do-overs, no backsies" aspect of the MCU that made it special for me. Finally a chance to see characters age and grow and then move the gently caress on. I don't want more Tony Stark, they did all they could with him and now we can focus on any of the sixty dozen other heroes who have some aspect of his character. What happens with Ms. Marvel in a decade though? The actress will barely be cracking 30. Too young for the character to retire, I don't want to see them killed off, and every time they are offscreen there'll always be the "where's Ms Marvel?" problem. Spidey will get another couple of solo films and the big cross-over flicks, then they can sideline Parker and get a decade plus of Mile Morales flicks with there being an overlap as Peter mentors the new spider on the block. In what circumstances can Parker just drop out of being involved in all the things though? It was a lot easier when they started with thiry-somethings who retire at 50. Even Ant Man is now visibly too old for this poo poo, and I wish the third movie had been a smaller movie about his daughter fighting those lovely cops who were picking on Blip refugees as that's much more the fun kind of minor caper that the character should be about. A movie about him raising his daughter to do the right thing, but what that means in a post-Blip world, would be so much better than a quantum realm Star Wars. I think this is also why I was "meh" on Love and Thunder and didn't like GotG 3, because regardless of what you think about those films (and I know I'm in an odd minority for not liking Guardians 3) there was basically no reason for them to exist beyond the churning need for more content. In terms of where it left the characters, I think Thor and the Guardians just heading off out into space at the close of Endgame for some unknown adventures was a great way to end their participation in the MCU. Love and Thunder being a solo Jane Foster movie would have been far more interesting than having Thor find a third magic weapon and spinning his wheels in trying to decide who he is again. Those films exist, and people have opinions on them ranging across the board, but in terms of character growth and development did we need them? I think not. In terms of how it moved characters along, I feel mostly the same about Black Panther 2 and MoM, even though there's some stuff in there that was good (Wanda, despite the lack of setup). I'll never stop being sad that they didn't go with M'Baku as a reluctant Black Panther trying to fill shoes that were suddenly too big even for him. I'd still argue that Wanda being left offscreen with the Darkhold at the end of WandaVision leaves her basically in the same place as under a pile of rocks at the end of MoM. Just someone who can be brought back as either a hero or villain as needed, all the MoM arc added was the world's most boring multiverse stuff and a whole pile of murder. And lovely wizards who haven't even updated their magic bows to magic AK-47s. Not that there's anything wrong with MCU films existing just to tell another chapter of a character's story, we had a lot of that early on, but we're so stuffed with characters now that we really need them to have a purpose with each one of them. You get limited goes with each hero, it needs to move them along in some way, and always with an eye on it being a limited number of chances to tell stories with them and then needing, needing to have a plan as to where that hero stops being a regular part of the MCU. They are basically the equivalent of Iron Man 3, being a film that people may or may not enjoy but is just a slot filling movie that you can skip over in any rewatch of the Infinity Saga because it just isn't necessary. Meanwhile I'd argue that there are no skippable Cap movies, because every appearance of Steve Rogers in the MCU advanced the character and wasn't just spinning the wheels. Anyway, I don't think it's necessary for every character they introduce to need to be woven in with all the rest. I'm fine with Shang-Chi being a one-off appearance and just a fun movie for the sake of being a fun movie and then that's him done. It's having an end credit scene that suggests he's now in with the Avengers that makes it frustrating that he was setup as an Important Character and I guess he's spent the last three years parking cars still. I definitely think the biggest mistake they made was planning for the next two Avengers movies to be an Infinity War/Endgame approximation, when they should have had a couple of Avengers/Age of Ultron equivalents lined up earlier as milestones. Basically so that we always know that's going to be the big crossover event movie, and to just keep them as milestones along the way to hold the MCU together. Just knowing who the current Avengers line-up even is would be a huge help right now. Ugh, words words words.
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Feb 27, 2024 14:14
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I think that the big team up for the Young Avengers will be the next Avengers movie. It seems like they will be playing a prominent role.
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Feb 27, 2024 14:47
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Honestly the only reason the infinity saga worked is because its foundations in were laid by Marvel Studios pre-disney in the form of Iron Man. RDJ's Iron Man held the whole thing together, and I don't think a character like that - with the requisite bite - would ever be created by Disney-owned Marvel. Disney should sell Marvel Studios to Troma. Let Troma have a turn!
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Feb 27, 2024 15:23
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RDJ Iron Man was lightning in a bottle that launched and carried the entire MCU. Now the expectation is for more lightning. It can’t be manufactured but studio execs demand that it is so they cling to any perceived success hoping lightning will strike again and it’s of course not working. Just make good solid films and shows. Nothing like Endgame is going to happen on purpose.
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Feb 27, 2024 16:26
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Will they still call it "Young Avengers"? Unless it comes out in 2 years or less, Florence Pugh & Hailee Steinfeld will be older than Evans & Hemsworth were in the 2012 Avengers
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Feb 27, 2024 17:01
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Hobo Clown posted:Will they still call it "Young Avengers"? Unless it comes out in 2 years or less, Florence Pugh & Hailee Steinfeld will be older than Evans & Hemsworth were in the 2012 Avengers I do hope there’s a joke where Ms. Marvel realizes that she went to all the footwork of creating the Teen Avengers and she’s the on teen on the team.
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Feb 27, 2024 17:12
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I don't get the impression that Yelena's going to be a Young Avenger. She's already a Thunderbolt and they've teased Kamala, Kate and Cassie Lang as the core of YA.
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Feb 27, 2024 17:34
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live with fruit posted:I don't get the impression that Yelena's going to be a Young Avenger. She's already a Thunderbolt and they've teased Kamala, Kate and Cassie Lang as the core of YA. Wait til Wolverine’s in the MCU and on every team
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Feb 27, 2024 17:37
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live with fruit posted:I don't get the impression that Yelena's going to be a Young Avenger. She's already a Thunderbolt and they've teased Kamala, Kate and Cassie Lang as the core of YA. A low stakes street level caper with these three would be so much fun I can't believe it may not ever happen. Shoehorn Jon's Punisher in there just so he gets his lights out like in that one Power Pack panel
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Feb 27, 2024 17:48
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live with fruit posted:I don't get the impression that Yelena's going to be a Young Avenger. She's already a Thunderbolt and they've teased Kamala, Kate and Cassie Lang as the core of YA. That would be such a waste of Yelena's and Kate's chemistry but I guess that's what happens when you take years to have a character return and they have aged out of the "teen" role.
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Feb 27, 2024 18:01
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The first time we meet Yelena she's in her mid to late twenties. She's never been age appropriate for a group of plucky teens.
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Feb 27, 2024 18:11
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Zefiel posted:Shoehorn Jon's Punisher in there just so he gets his lights out like in that one Power Pack panel Oh man, MCU Power Pack. Time to dust off my Ultimate Power Pack spec from 15 years ago that they turned down.
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Feb 27, 2024 18:28
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Boogaloo Shrimp posted:That’s just flat out Wong counterfeitsaint posted:I don't think She-Hulk is nearly as popular outside of places like SA as you're implying. I wasn't posting here at the time and I never watched the show, but the impression I got from like, everywhere else, especially memes, was that she treated Hulk like crap and then twerked and that was all. Not saying I agree with that opinion, just saying I've never heard a kind word said about She-Hulk outside of SA. As sexist as it may be, it's quite a stretch to say that She-Hulk is as likable as the original Avengers.
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Feb 27, 2024 19:40
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Yeah my armchair quarterback MCUing is that we should’ve had the new Avengers basically right now with Kamala, Kate, and Cassie with a (good version) of Secret Invasion laying the groundwork for Hulkling to debut alongside Wiccan following up on WandaVision / MoM because then you get a big crossover + new generation and phase 4 actually lead to something.
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Feb 27, 2024 19:42
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It's just mind-blowing how nearly every project feels like it's being kneecapped so it can be part of a greater whole, but that greater whole just isn't happening either. It's the worst of all worlds.
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Feb 27, 2024 19:46
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howe_sam posted:The first time we meet Yelena she's in her mid to late twenties. She's never been age appropriate for a group of plucky teens. Technically the first first time we meet her she's like, six. 
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Feb 27, 2024 19:54
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Yea I think the big problem is they went wide when they should of gone tall. More stuff with the same people rather than more people in less stuff. You'd avoid the whole "we released this thing 3 years ago and we have currently no plans for a followup, but here's 7 projects with entirely new characters!". No one has an opportunity to have the audience to get to know them. You leave the theater and go "I really want to see more of character X" but nope, the slate is all new characters. Following Endgame we should of gotten Dr Strange 2 and Captain marvel 2 fairly quickly. Maybe the Marvel's should of been the 3rd Captain Marvel movie?
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Feb 27, 2024 20:59
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Look, speaking as an outsider who doesn't care much about the MCU: * I'm constantly bamboozled that they've not done a second Simu Liu film. I figured that he and some other characters would be anchoring things going forwards. Apparently not? * I figured Scarlet Witch was being set up as a big villain, but then they just sort of drop her after two big stories. * Don't care about Kang. And also he's done anyway. * Everything else is a muddle and I stopped caring. The momentum's gone.
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Feb 27, 2024 21:33
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twistedmentat posted:Yea I think the big problem is they went wide when they should of gone tall. More stuff with the same people rather than more people in less stuff. You'd avoid the whole "we released this thing 3 years ago and we have currently no plans for a followup, but here's 7 projects with entirely new characters!". There's a bit more variety in the tv shows, but you'd expect that.
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Feb 27, 2024 21:48
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howe_sam posted:The first time we meet Yelena she's in her mid to late twenties. She's never been age appropriate for a group of plucky teens. She's also already a well-oiled killing machine while Kamala, Kate and Cassie are all still figuring out the hero thing.
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Feb 27, 2024 22:23
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I think when it just comes to the "MCU bad now" vibe there is also very much a Sony problem when they just keep releasing absolute dogshit and pulling down the "average" of the MCU for people who don't really recognize the Sony Spider-Verse and the MCU as being separate things (like say, the actual star of Madame Web).
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Feb 27, 2024 22:32
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Nikumatic posted:I think when it just comes to the "MCU bad now" vibe there is also very much a Sony problem when they just keep releasing absolute dogshit and pulling down the "average" of the MCU for people who don't really recognize the Sony Spider-Verse and the MCU as being separate things (like say, the actual star of Madame Web). DC too. The MCU has actually been decent, outside of Quantumania and Secret Invasion. Everything else (besides Spiderverse), though, has been terrible or just irrelevant.
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Feb 27, 2024 23:09
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live with fruit posted:DC too. The MCU has actually been decent, outside of Quantumania and Secret Invasion. Everything else (besides Spiderverse), though, has been terrible or just irrelevant. I'd add Eternals and Thor: Grab rear end and Cancer to the "not decent" list, but other than that, agreed.
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Feb 27, 2024 23:17
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this mf just say grab rear end and cancer
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Feb 27, 2024 23:21
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Soul Glo posted:this mf just say grab rear end and cancer Not my joke, pretty sure it came from the We Hate Movies podcast, but it accurately describes the wild tonal shifts that movie had.
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Feb 27, 2024 23:34
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Jane went to fuckin’ Double Good Heaven. I just don’t know with that movie.
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Feb 27, 2024 23:37
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Thor 1 is about Thor trying to get mew mew back after losing his powers. Thor 3 is about learning to become the god of thunder after mew mew is shattered. Infinity War is Thor getting new weapon Storm Breaker. Endgame has Thor happy to see past mew mew to show he's "still worthy" but then passing it on to Cap with with "no, you have the little one". Thor 4 is about Thor getting new weapon Zeus's lightning bolt, while also getting all misty-eyed over mew mew, while Storm Breaker is jealous about his feelings for mew mew. They really are making far too much out of the "Thor and his weapon/powers" stuff. That, and killing off someone he cares about are now most of the plot arcs for him. His mother and Loki killed in Thor 2, his father and best friends in Thor 3, Loki again in Infinity War along with half of Asgard including Heimdall, Jane in Thor 4. New weapons and personal trauma. That's what you get in a Thor storyline. And honestly? The more I think about it, the more I feel that showing Jane and Heimdall in Valhalla completely undermines all the sense of loss from the death of everyone in all those films. They've gone to live forever in space Viking paradise? When it's something not seen, and something that might happen, it's a vague sense of comfort to the bereaved. Showing it explicitly makes those deaths have no impact at all. Maybe. I dunno, but there's a difference between knowing the afterlife exists and showing the afterlife that exists.
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Feb 28, 2024 12:14
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The MCU afterlives seem to be separate planes of existence. I honestly don't remember anything from Thor 4, but the other one we've seen concretely is Moon Knight in Ancient Egypt's Duat. You could include Thanos seeing Gamora and Deadpool seeing Vanessa if you're generous, even if the latter wasn't MCU at the time.
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Feb 28, 2024 12:39
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Attack on Princess posted:The MCU afterlives seem to be separate planes of existence. I honestly don't remember anything from Thor 4, but the other one we've seen concretely is Moon Knight in Ancient Egypt's Duat. Black Panther too, though the speaking with the ancestors is tied with use of the magic purple flower so it leaves it open to interpretation as to how that works, which is why it feels less egregious as it's more metaphorical than explicit.
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Feb 28, 2024 12:49
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Parkingtigers posted:Black Panther too, though the speaking with the ancestors is tied with use of the magic purple flower so it leaves it open to interpretation as to how that works, which is why it feels less egregious as it's more metaphorical than explicit. If I took a big old hit of a magic herb and saw visions of the afterlife, I would be both dubious of the veracity of what I had seen and extremely complimentary about the quality of the product. Waganja forever!
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Feb 28, 2024 13:05
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Did we really see Heimdall in viking heaven in Thor 4? I saw that movie twice and can barely remember anything beyond gang of thor-kids, screaming goats and his axe has trust issues.Jedit posted:Waganja forever! 
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Feb 28, 2024 13:46
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counterfeitsaint posted:Did we really see Heimdall in viking heaven in Thor 4? I saw that movie twice and can barely remember anything beyond gang of thor-kids, screaming goats and his axe has trust issues. It's the post credit scene.
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Feb 28, 2024 13:49
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Thought experiment: Would the MCU be better if they didn’t have the post-credit scenes? Certainly lately, where they are bread crumbs to nowhere, or character moments that might as well be a deleted scene because they don’t actually matter to the story that we just watched.
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Feb 28, 2024 13:59
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Maybe the funniest thing about the stingers recently is when one of the least important post-credit scenes in the entire series (Thor: The Dark World, the frost doggy still being loose out in Midgard for a quick gag) actually ended up getting payoff in loving Secret Invasion of all things (frost doggy ending up being one of the things the Skrulls captured to do dna voodoo on). it really is all connected, checkmate. I still think they're fun, but they also have An Obligation now and people would also complain if they suddenly dropped them, so I tend to prefer the ones that end up just being jokes or brief character beats.
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Feb 28, 2024 14:17
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I think they’re fine, but they should probably slow down on teasing things that are years from development Like the whole end of Shang-Chi where Wong shows up feels like something that isn’t going to get resolved for a long time
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Feb 28, 2024 14:39
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Nikumatic posted:Maybe the funniest thing about the stingers recently is when one of the least important post-credit scenes in the entire series (Thor: The Dark World, the frost doggy still being loose out in Midgard for a quick gag) actually ended up getting payoff I think this ended up getting covered in Agents of Shield, didn't it? FlamingLiberal posted:I think they’re fine, but they should probably slow down on teasing things that are years from development Eternals is easily the most egregious of these. Like, gently caress off, Eros and/or Black Knight are not being covered anytime soon.
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Feb 28, 2024 14:59
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thrawn527 posted:I think this ended up getting covered in Agents of Shield, didn't it? Only place black knight might be covered is the long cursed blade reboot so you're probably right.
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Feb 28, 2024 15:04
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