[P/I] Live Hamas

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(Thread IKs: Zodium, John Charity Spring, really queer Christmas)

Owlbear Camus: Jan 3, 2013; Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?

PhilippAchtel posted:

https://twitter.com/ContentedIndie/status/1762498908138492125

He was no angel, hypothetically

oh no not anti-western rhetoric.

oh, he did this unambiguously moral and self-sacrificing thing? what if he did this other more controversial act that he didn't actually do but that I made up? he could have, in my imagination, so that's bad. it's detestable that he made me make up such things.

the israeli organ harvesting/line jumping story is yet another fact that if one didn't see credible sources one would rightly dismiss as deranged antisemitic conspiracy theory like "pour the material in the well." loving hell.

# ? Feb 28, 2024 16:46

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# ? May 26, 2024 13:10

Al!: Apr 2, 2010

PhilippAchtel posted:

https://twitter.com/ContentedIndie/status/1762498908138492125

He was no angel, hypothetically

lets keep reposting this guy maybe cspam can help get another retard nobody a congressional seat

# ? Feb 28, 2024 16:50

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

The antisemitic Left

# ? Feb 28, 2024 16:54

OctaMurk: Jun 21, 2013

the israeli orgam harvesting will get dismissed as "blood libel" before you even get a chance to show someone a source, its so comically evil. It sounds like a lunatic's conspiracy theory, but is real

# ? Feb 28, 2024 16:56

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

Owlbear Camus posted:

the israeli organ harvesting/line jumping story is yet another fact that if one didn't see credible sources one would rightly dismiss as deranged antisemitic conspiracy theory like "pour the material in the well." loving hell.

Honest Reporting

My 'stealing Palestinian organs' shirt has people asking a lot of questions already answered by my shirt. posted:

CNN & Other Media Give Voice to Anti-Israel �Human Rights� Organization

Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor describes itself as a �youth-led independent, nonprofit organization that advocates for the human rights of all persons across Europe and the MENA region, particularly those who live under occupation, in the throes of war or political unrest and/or have been displaced due to persecution or armed conflict.�

However, behind this humanitarian mask lies an organization steeped in anti-Israel bias, conspiracy theories, and activism. This has not, however, stopped international media from citing some of Euro-Med Monitor�s most outrageous charges against Israel.

As noted by NGO Monitor, Euro-Med Monitor has published articles that accuse Israel of �apartheid,� �genocide,� and �ethnic cleansing,� and has issued calls for an arms embargo as well as sanctions against the Jewish state.

Among the more extreme conspiracy theories published by Euro-Med Monitor are claims that Israel is engaged in organ trafficking, that the IDF engages in extra-judicial killing, and that Israel has used doctored photos to cover up these executions.

https://x.com/MarioNawfal/status/1739950754473869496?s=20

The perfect example of Euro-Med Monitor�s anti-Israel obsession is its output following Hamas� brutal October 7 invasion of southern Israel.

Since that day, the organization has published close to 100 articles on Israel and the war in Gaza, documenting what it deems to be Israel�s transgressions in the coastal enclave.

At the same time, not one article has been published about the atrocities committed by Hamas in Israel on October 7, the ongoing hostage situation, or the persistent rocket fire directed at Israeli civilians since then.

In fact, in less than 20% of these Gaza war-related articles are either October 7 or Hamas even mentioned at all. When they are mentioned in passing, it is simply to provide context for Israel�s actions in Gaza.

For an organization that claims to be dedicated to �human rights,� it is clear that the rights of Israelis do not figure into its supposed fight for justice.

Euro-Med Monitor�s troubling agenda is a mirror of the ideology of its staff and leadership.

Founder Ramy Abdu has been accused of being one of Hamas� �main operatives� in Europe, Chief of Progammes Muhammad Shehada (who was previously profiled by HonestReporting) has a history of whitewashing Palestinian terrorism, and Chairman of the Board of Trustees Richard Falk is a former UN Special Rapporteur on the Palestinian Territories who has promoted 9/11 conspiracy theories and has compared the Jewish state to Nazi Germany.

Yet, despite Euro-Med Monitor�s clear anti-Israel agenda and questionable leadership, both the organization and its staff have recently been cited in both the mainstream and alternative media.

CNN cited the �NGO� in a report on Israel�s detention of suspected Hamas members in Gaza while EuroNews and Metro UK both published articles based on claims made by the organization.

EuroNews� reliance on the �human rights group� is particularly egregious as it published the organization�s conspiracy theory-driven report on alleged Israeli human trafficking.

In addition, Muhammad Shehada has recently been quoted by the BBC, Metro UK, Middle East Eye, and the anti-Israel outlet Electronic Intifada.

https://x.com/MiddleEastEye/status/1739711426044813807?s=20

With its flagrant anti-Israel bias (which includes stooping to medieval anti-Jewish tropes) and prejudiced leadership, should mainstream news outlets like CNN and the BBC be relying on Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor as a legitimate source for reporting on the ongoing war between Israel and Hamas?

UPDATE: On January 22, 2024, X user Eitan Fischberger posted a tweet thread which expanded on Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor�s leadership�s support for Hamas and Palestinian terrorism

https://x.com/EFischberger/status/1749534831489466710?s=20

Kind of weird to write a long, angry, article alleging antisemitic conspiracy and accusing the writers of belonging to Hamas, citing that Israel has... accused the writers of belong to Hamas... without disputing any of the claims in the reporting.

It's one of those things I had not heard of, and would not think of, if there wasn't a wave of Israel alleging that this was a baseless antisemitic conspiracy, plus all of those articles prior to Oct 7 about Palestinians generously donating their organs to Israelis, and then other, completely unrelated, articles about coercion and illegality in the Israeli organ supply.

OctaMurk posted:

the israeli orgam harvesting will get dismissed as "blood libel" before you even get a chance to show someone a source, its so comically evil. It sounds like a lunatic's conspiracy theory, but is real

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:00

Egg Moron: Jul 21, 2003; the dreams of the delighting void

Travesty after travesty

Your tax dollars at work

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:02

Sancho Banana: Aug 4, 2023; Not to be confused with meat.

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

lol so Epstein had the goods on like every American politician, right? How else do you explain poo poo like this?

AI art technology is being covertly funded by congress so they can discredit attempts by the Mossad/CIA to blackmail them with Epstein Island videos by claiming they're AI generated

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:07

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

The Guardian, 2009

Doctor admits Israeli pathologists harvested organs without consent posted:

Israel has admitted pathologists harvested organs from dead Palestinians, and others, without the consent of their families � a practice it said ended in the 1990s � it emerged at the weekend.

The admission, by the former head of the country's forensic institute, followed a furious row prompted by a Swedish newspaper reporting that Israel was killing Palestinians in order to use their organs � a charge that Israel denied and called "antisemitic".

The revelation, in a television documentary, is likely to generate anger in the Arab and Muslim world and reinforce sinister stereotypes of Israel and its attitude to Palestinians. Iran's state-run Press TV tonight reported the story, illustrated with photographs of dead or badly injured Palestinians.

Ahmed Tibi, an Israeli Arab MP, said the report incriminated the Israeli army.

The story emerged in an interview with Dr Yehuda Hiss, former head of the Abu Kabir forensic institute near Tel Aviv. The interview was conducted in 2000 by an American academic who released it because of the row between Israel and Sweden over a report in the Stockholm newspaper Aftonbladet.

Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives.

The Israeli military confirmed to the programme that the practice took place, but added: "This activity ended a decade ago and does not happen any longer."

Hiss said: "We started to harvest corneas ... whatever was done was highly informal. No permission was asked from the family."

However, there was no evidence that Israel had killed Palestinians to take their organs, as the Swedish paper reported. Aftonbladet quoted Palestinians as saying young men from the West Bank and Gaza Strip had been seized by the Israeli forces and their bodies returned to their families with missing organs. The interview with Hiss was released by Nancy Scheper-Hughes, professor of anthropology at the University of California-Berkeley who had conducted a study of Abu Kabir.

She was quoted by the Associated Press as saying that while Palestinians were "by a long shot" not the only ones affected, she felt the interview must be made public, because "the symbolism, you know, of taking skin of the population considered to be the enemy, [is] something, just in terms of its symbolic weight, that has to be reconsidered."

Israel demanded that Sweden condemn the Aftonbladet article, calling it an antisemitic "blood libel". Stockholm refused, saying that to so would violate freedom of speech in the country. The foreign minister then cancelled a visit to Israel, just as Sweden was taking over the EU's rotating presidency.

Hiss was removed from his post in 2004, when some details about organ harvesting were first reported, but he still works at the forensic institute.

Israel's health ministry said all harvesting was now done with permission. "The guidelines at that time were not clear," it said in a statement to Channel 2. "For the last 10 years, Abu Kabir has been working according to ethics and Jewish law."

Newsweek, 2023

Israel Organ Harvesting Allegations Explained posted:

Allegations that Israel harvested the organs of Palestinians, based on a true story published 14 years ago, have resurfaced as the nation's war with Hamas continues.

On Monday, supermodel Gigi Hadid was among the latest to share allegations that "Israeli authorities had harvested the organs of dead Palestinians."

...

While the content Hadid shared is based on facts established following a leak to an Israeli news source in 2009, her post did not include information such as when the allegations were made or how authorities responded.

While there are no reports that such a practice has happened in Gaza or the West Bank, the established history risks being folded into misinformed or misleading claims.

Newsweek examined what we know already and where it leaves us.

Where Do the Allegations Come From?

In 2009, an interview with Dr. Yehuda Hiss�former head of the Abu Kabir Forensic Institute�was leaked. Recorded in 2000 by Nancy Scheper-Hughes�professor of anthropology at the University of California-Berkeley�Hiss said that pathologists at the institute took skin, corneas, bones and heart valves from the bodies of Israeli citizens, Israeli soldiers, Palestinians and immigrants, often without consent from the deceased's family.

The release of Scheper-Hughes' recording was in response to an article by Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet. The publication featured interviews with Palestinians who alleged that young men from the West Bank and Gaza Strip were being killed by the Israeli military and their bodies returned with organs missing. Its content was condemned by many leaders and journalists across the world.

"Whatever was done was highly informal. No permission was asked from the family," Hiss said.

The Israeli military confirmed that organ harvesting took place, but that it ended in the 1990s.

"This activity ended a decade ago and does not happen any longer," a spokesperson told Israel Channel 2.

Donald Bostrom�the journalist who wrote the article�said there was no evidence of Israeli forces stealing Palestinians for organ harvesting, but he believed Israel's donation policy needed to be investigated.

In a statement at the time, Israel's health ministry said: "The guidelines at that time were not clear. For the last 10 years, Abu Kabir has been working according to ethics and Jewish law."

While Hiss was dismissed from the Abu Kabir Institute of Forensic Medicine, left-leaning Israeli media outlet Haaretz reported in 2015 that he had been paid as a witness by the Israeli Justice Ministry for his expertise in "important cases" since leaving the post.

In 2008, under the Organ Transplant Act, Israel forbade the trade of organs in exchange for money or any other benefit.

While Israel has attracted attention for alleged connections to wider global organ trafficking, this is distinct from the allegations shared by Hadid, among others, about the taking of organs from dead Palestinians.

The video referred to in Hadid's tweet appeared to show an interview on Israel Channel 2. Newsweek was unable to verify the content of the interview, including its subtitles, attributed in the video and elsewhere on Israel Channel 2.

Newsweek has reached out to the Israeli government and representatives for Hadid via email for comment.

Harvesting Claims Resurface

As Israel began its airstrikes and military campaign in Gaza, the 2009 organ story resurfaced on social media. In some cases, the story was brought up the same day as the Hamas attack on October 7.

Some influencers have repeated the story without clearly saying whether they were referring to historical or contemporary accounts.

One post on X, by user @whoshamdi, on October 31, 2023, which received 1.9 million views, said: "Discovering that Israel has been using DEAD Palestinians skin to treat their patients who need skin transplants etc.... They've also harvested organs of Palestinians without consent has me shocked. There's no way this is real life like I refuse to believe this is real!"

Many posts focus only on the use of Palestinian bodies. However, according to the audio leaked from 2009, evidence shows that Israeli citizens, Israeli soldiers and immigrants were also allegedly targeted.

Others have reposted content from 2009, around the time of the harvesting, including an interview with Donald Bostrom on Russian state-sponsored media outlet RT. Commentator Sulaiman Ahmed posted the video on X on November 19, 2023, with the claim "ISRAEL IS KILLING PALESTINIANS AND STEALING THEIR ORGANS AND SKIN."

These claims have often sat alongside completely unverified and unevidenced accusations that Israel is continuing to harvest bodies and organs, with baseless allegations about Israel stealing corpses from Shifa hospital.

There is no evidence that such a practice is occurring in the current conflict. In all probability, it would be significantly harder to suppress or hide such a conspiracy with the intense media attention the war is receiving along with the sophisticated tools of citizen journalism that exist now, compared to when these incidents were said to have happened.

What can you even say at this point?

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:07

Complications: Jun 19, 2014

I'd wondered why the Israelis were bothering taking people, especially kids, from Gaza into long term holding prisons for "crimes" instead of just temporary camps since the usual USA style native genocide doesn't entail keeping the locals around at all. Organ harvesting makes sense as a reason to keep a population you're annihilating around for a bit longer. What a nightmare.

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:09

Vomik: Jul 29, 2003; This post is dedicated to the brave Mujahideen fighters of Afghanistan

Hatebag posted:

this whole overtly nazi israel thing is a real big opportunity for traditional style nazis to launder anti-semitic stuff because there's not much evil a person wouldn't believe israel capable of when they're leveling hospitals and poisoning drinking water

it�s absolutely wild how inundated westerners are with propaganda that even people who say they�re leftist still fall all over themselves to make this about �rising antisemitism in the west� like they are some zaka consultant

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:10

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

"Everything people are alleging is true, but it's an antisemitic conspiracy theory because it took place in the past" is a loving wild tack to take.

When do you see a proven history of something happening pointed to as exonerating outside of Israel?

DJJIB-DJDCT has issued a correction as of 17:13 on Feb 28, 2024

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:11

Al!: Apr 2, 2010

Hatebag posted:

this whole overtly nazi israel thing is a real big opportunity for traditional style nazis to launder anti-semitic stuff because there's not much evil a person wouldn't believe israel capable of when they're leveling hospitals and poisoning drinking water

maybe the dumbest motherfuckers might fall for this but anyone with a smigeon of moral clarity realizes that the state of israel isnt a jewish person nor does a jewish person belong to the state of israel

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:15

Owlbear Camus: Jan 3, 2013; Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

"Everything people are alleging is true, but it's an antisemitic conspiracy theory because it took place in the past" is a loving wild tack to take.

"Look, we admitted we lied about stopping it in the 90s when we were caught doing it again in the 2000s, but were' definitely done doing it in the 2020s."

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:15

OctaMurk: Jun 21, 2013

Complications posted:

I'd wondered why the Israelis were bothering taking people, especially kids, from Gaza into long term holding prisons for "crimes" instead of just temporary camps since the usual USA style native genocide doesn't entail keeping the locals around at all. Organ harvesting makes sense as a reason to keep a population you're annihilating around for a bit longer. What a nightmare.

The Palestinians are meant to be more like long term slave labor than totally eradicated. The Israelis view themselves as Spartans amd the Palestinians as Helots.

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:15

Sancho Banana: Aug 4, 2023; Not to be confused with meat.

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

"Everything people are alleging is true, but it's an antisemitic conspiracy theory because it took place in the past" is a loving wild tack to take.

That's assuming the people who say that poo poo, and make bogus accusations of anti semitism in service of Israel in general, actually believe what's coming out of their own mouths. Fascists lie. They do it without shame. They know it's ridiculous.

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:16

Retromancer: Aug 21, 2007; Every time I see Goatse, I think of Maureen. That's the last thing I saw. Before I blacked out. The sight of that man's anus.

OctaMurk posted:

The Palestinians are meant to be more like long term slave labor than totally eradicated. The Israelis view themselves as Spartans amd the Palestinians as Helots.

No wonder they want to be friends with the gulf states so bad.

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:17

Cookie Cutter: Nov 29, 2020; Is there something else that's bothering you Mr. President?

It's so crazy they are just like ok, you got us, we were stealing the organs but we stopped, honest.
Did any laws change? No? Then it's still happening isn't it

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:17

Sancho Banana: Aug 4, 2023; Not to be confused with meat.

Owlbear Camus posted:

"Look, we admitted we lied about stopping it in the 90s when we were caught doing it again in the 2000s, but were' definitely done doing it in the 2020s."

Israel "agreed" to finally stop using white phosphorus in 2013. Guess what they've done several times since October 7th .

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:18

Al!: Apr 2, 2010

so has there actually even been evidence of a rise in antisemitism or has it been all reclassifying even the smallest criticism of israel as antisemitism?? like are there any real organizations tracking the numbers?

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:19

OctaMurk: Jun 21, 2013

Al! posted:

so has there actually even been evidence of a rise in antisemitism or has it been all reclassifying even the smallest criticism of israel as antisemitism?? like are there any real organizations tracking the numbers?

Why won’t antisemitism die, or at least die down? In the months following Hamas’ attack on Israel on Oct. 7, 2023, antisemitic incidents increased substantially. The Anti-Defamation League, which keeps track, says they tripled in the U.S. over the previous year, although its criteria also changed to include anti-Zionism.

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:21

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Al! posted:

lets keep reposting this guy maybe cspam can help get another retard nobody a congressional seat

That describes all the congresspeople?

Orange Devil has issued a correction as of 17:23 on Feb 28, 2024

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:21

the bitcoin of weed: Nov 1, 2014

Al! posted:

maybe the dumbest motherfuckers might fall for this but anyone with a smigeon of moral clarity realizes that the state of israel isnt a jewish person nor does a jewish person belong to the state of israel

zionists have been forcing this association on everyone for decades. for many politically ignorant people the propaganda sticks

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:23

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

Al! posted:

so has there actually even been evidence of a rise in antisemitism or has it been all reclassifying even the smallest criticism of israel as antisemitism?? like are there any real organizations tracking the numbers?

Well, I mean, cynically, if you started telling people about well poisoning and organ harvesting, and didn't provide the historical and political context, explain that Zionism is distinct from Judaism, I imagine that would lead to an increase in antisemitism. :siren:

I am not arguing that it should, or that it would be a correct impression :siren:

It's the same as trying to explain the Israel lobby - a literal secretive network that gives money to political leaders to direct the government to take actions against the popular will - it obviously sounds bad.

Al! posted:

maybe the dumbest motherfuckers might fall for this but anyone with a smigeon of moral clarity realizes that the state of israel isnt a jewish person nor does a jewish person belong to the state of israel

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:24

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

the bitcoin of weed posted:

zionists have been forcing this association on everyone for decades. for many politically ignorant people the propaganda sticks

I can tell you it's difficult to argue against this conflation when your own drat government insists it is so and good, actually.

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:24

Cromulent_Chill: Apr 6, 2009

Do leaders of Israel see it possible to criticize Israel without being anti-semetic? Are there any examples of Israel's leaders responding to criticism in earnest, or is it all deflection immediately?

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:27

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Cromulent_Chill posted:

Do leaders of Israel see it possible to criticize Israel without being anti-semetic? Are there any examples of Israel's leaders responding to criticism in earnest, or is it all deflection immediately?

This is clear antisemitism.

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:27

Sancho Banana: Aug 4, 2023; Not to be confused with meat.

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

It's the same as trying to explain the Israel lobby - a literal secretive network that gives money to political leaders to direct the government to take actions against the popular will - it obviously sounds bad.

Only if the person you're speaking to has never heard of lobbying before. American politicians are bribed from 27 different directions at all times.

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:28

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

Cromulent_Chill posted:

Do leaders of Israel see it possible to criticize Israel without being anti-semetic? Are there any examples of Israel's leaders responding to criticism in earnest, or is it all deflection immediately?

I don�t think so, no. Cynicism aside, for them to accept the premise they would need to put a belief in Zionism aside in their reasoning. If criticism of Israel is not antisemitic, the Israeli state exists separately from the Jewish people, which is not possible if the State of Israel is the sacred homeland of the Jewish people.

I�m not saying smoke would come out of their ears or that they would see the error of their ways, but rather that they�d have to put aside a belief in Zionism (or cynical utilization of Zionism) to even think about it that way.

It�s maybe sort of like how the Holy See is not really a state like any other, but then, the Vatican does not require states it has diplomatic relations with to acknowledge the political and spiritual supremacy of the papacy anymore. So, maybe Israel is the medieval papacy where it�s a fairly large state that fights wars and has routine economic and political relations, but also claims spiritual authority?

DJJIB-DJDCT has issued a correction as of 17:34 on Feb 28, 2024

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:31

Owlbear Camus: Jan 3, 2013; Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?

I remember around 2013, I think it was there was this big blow-up around Jeremy Corbin's alleged antisemitism. I scoured the Internet for some kind of specific act or utterance and every single source was vague, diffuse, circularly reasoned. Turns out it's p. much just that he thought Palestinians were people lol.

Sancho Banana posted:

Only if the person you're speaking to has never heard of lobbying before. American politicians are bribed from 27 different directions at all times.

It's all about the Benjamins (derogatory)

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:32

Vomik: Jul 29, 2003; This post is dedicated to the brave Mujahideen fighters of Afghanistan

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

Well, I mean, cynically, if you started telling people about well poisoning and organ harvesting, and didn't provide the historical and political context, explain that Zionism is distinct from Judaism, I imagine that would lead to an increase in antisemitism. I am not arguing that it should, or that it would be a correct impression

It's the same as trying to explain the Israel lobby - a literal secretive network that gives money to political leaders to direct the government to take actions against the popular will - it obviously sounds bad.

how? how does that make sense? why would you imagine that? people who are anti genocide, anti organ harvesting, anti well poisoning are not the same people who engage in hate crimes.

you just are repeating American liberal talking points for pages. why?

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:35

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

But even then, in the 13th century when the Papacy and its proxies fought a series of wars against the supporters of the Holy Roman Emperor, they made enough of a distinction to not accuse them of being antichristian, or excommunicate all of the Ghibellines.

Vomik posted:

how? how does that make sense? why would you imagine that? people who are anti genocide, anti organ harvesting, anti well poisoning are not the same people who engage in hate crimes.

you just are repeating American liberal talking points for pages. why?

People who engage in hate crimes use accusations (including true accusations) of genocide, organ harvesting and well poisoning as justification for their hatred (and crimes).

On the other hand, as those are hateful acts, obviously people of good conscious who become aware of them feel anger at those who did them.

There is no clear division, in a Manichean sense, between people who believe X (good people) and people who believe Y (bad people). It�s worth reasoning how people may respond to shocking information when the line between the Jewish people and the State of Israel has been blurred.

DJJIB-DJDCT has issued a correction as of 17:41 on Feb 28, 2024

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:36

Hatebag: Jun 17, 2008

Vomik posted:

it’s absolutely wild how inundated westerners are with propaganda that even people who say they’re leftist still fall all over themselves to make this about “rising antisemitism in the west” like they are some zaka consultant

i didn't say there was rising anti-semitism. i said israel's naked evil was an opportunity for nazis! because the tweet about israelis jumping the organ queue to steal patriotic american organs seems to be fake, so my point was that nazis can say whatever poo poo they want and it will seem plausible to people receptive to nazi messaging.
the facts that israelis go abroad to buy shady organs and harvest organs of palestinian children they've murdered are separate from the tweet about what appears to be made up poo poo by a nazi

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:38

Tarnop: Nov 25, 2013; Pull me out

Owlbear Camus posted:

I remember around 2013, I think it was there was this big blow-up around Jeremy Corbin's alleged antisemitism. I scoured the Internet for some kind of specific act or utterance and every single source was vague, diffuse, circularly reasoned. Turns out it's p. much just that he thought Palestinians were people lol.

It's all about the Benjamins (derogatory)

Later than that. The establishment didn't take him seriously as a threat until a swell in support for Labour caused a hung parliament in 2017. The smears started once they realised people outside the labour party membership would vote for him

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:38

Sancho Banana: Aug 4, 2023; Not to be confused with meat.

Vomik posted:

how? how does that make sense? why would you imagine that? people who are anti genocide, anti organ harvesting, anti well poisoning are not the same people who engage in hate crimes.

you just are repeating American liberal talking points for pages. why?

what

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:38

Owlbear Camus: Jan 3, 2013; Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?

I think you can acknowledge that the self-avowed nation-state of the jews doing vile poo poo, with many of its officials loudly proclaiming that they are doing it in the name and in defense of every jew everywhere in the world, represents an ideological and epistemological hazard without being a hand-wringing liberal hasbara op.

I know that itt we are all enlightened beings of pure reason, but not every brain is good at "Okay, this nation-state is acting in bad faith, and I should exercise profound care in discriminating its acts from the individuals it claims disingenuously to act on behalf of."

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:42

Rigged Death Trap: Feb 13, 2012; BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

Hatebag posted:

i didn't say there was rising anti-semitism. i said israel's naked evil was an opportunity for nazis! because the tweet about israelis jumping the organ queue to steal patriotic american organs seems to be fake, so my point was that nazis can say whatever poo poo they want and it will seem plausible to people receptive to nazi messaging.
the facts that israelis go abroad to buy shady organs and harvest organs of palestinian children they've murdered are separate from the tweet about what appears to be made up poo poo by a nazi

Its nothing new.
Every social movement has former (rightfully exiled) pariahs attempt to rehabilitate their public image by aligning with it.

In this case a bunch of nazis (whose hatred for Jews currently outpaces their love of model ethnostates and killing browns) slide in with "hey see what i said about the Je-I mean Israel"

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:47

carcinofuck: Apr 18, 2001; pink floyd still sucks

Maya Fey posted:

update on this guy

https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1762726979898356218

why does he look exactly like douglas murray

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:50

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

Hatebag posted:

i didn't say there was rising anti-semitism. i said israel's naked evil was an opportunity for nazis! because the tweet about israelis jumping the organ queue to steal patriotic american organs seems to be fake, so my point was that nazis can say whatever poo poo they want and it will seem plausible to people receptive to nazi messaging.
the facts that israelis go abroad to buy shady organs and harvest organs of palestinian children they've murdered are separate from the tweet about what appears to be made up poo poo by a nazi

Well, are they difference in kind or in degree?

If the false accusations are, imo, less inflammatory than what turns out to be true, how do we draw lines here? A binary between true and false does not resolve the obvious danger.

When Nazi exaggerations and falsehoods turn out to be less severe than the reality, it�s understandable why people believe it, because the entire calculus of what�s outlandish and what�s not has gone out the window. Moreover, their believing lesser falsehoods can�t be more dangerous than learning more severe truths. If one is inciting, so is the other, right?

It�s one of the dangers of Israel acting the way it does while also claiming to be the ambassadors of the collective Jewish people. They aren�t - to be clear - but if they claim to represent a people, their actions may be understood (by some) to be representative, and that is insanely dangerous.

The Papacy�s lowest moments, in the Early and Late Middle Ages, under the Wicked Popes, was when it acted �as a state like any other� and tarnished the credibility of the faith it was supposed to represent. That�s why people still talk about the Borgias. It was easy fodder for the Black Legend when there were orgies in Papal Palace, the Joust of Whores.

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:52

Vomik: Jul 29, 2003; This post is dedicated to the brave Mujahideen fighters of Afghanistan

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

But even then, in the 13th century when the Papacy and its proxies fought a series of wars against the supporters of the Holy Roman Emperor, they made enough of a distinction to not accuse them of being antichristian, or excommunicate all of the Ghibellines.

People who engage in hate crimes use accusations (including true accusations) of genocide, organ harvesting and well poisoning as justification for their hatred (and crimes).

On the other hand, as those are hateful acts, obviously people of good conscious who become aware of them feel anger at those who did them.

There is no clear division, in a Manichean sense, between people who believe X (good people) and people who believe Y (bad people). It�s worth reasoning how people may respond to shocking information when the line between the Jewish people and the State of Israel has been blurred.

sure that�s possible, and I know you�re speaking in hypotheticals, but maybe I just don�t see that as the main issue at all nor do I think it�s likely. I am nearly 100% certain that if Israel collapsed after a joint coalition disarmed Israel that all the Israeli politicians would be in America embedded back in our system and it would still be harder to be Muslim or black in America than to be Jewish.

Owlbear Camus posted:

I think you can acknowledge that the self-avowed nation-state of the jews doing vile poo poo, with many of its officials loudly proclaiming that they are doing it in the name and in defense of every jew everywhere in the world, represents an ideological and epistemological hazard without being a hand-wringing liberal hasbara op.

I know that itt we are all enlightened beings of pure reason, but not every brain is good at "Okay, this nation-state is acting in bad faith, and I should exercise profound care in discriminating its acts from the individuals it claims disingenuously to act on behalf of."

certainly and it�s not even wrong to consider it - because obviously language can be dangerous, but it�s really a sideline issue, particularly now so it reads to me as �how could this horrible genocide affect me a westerner�

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:53

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# ? May 26, 2024 13:10

Al!: Apr 2, 2010

Hatebag posted:

i didn't say there was rising anti-semitism. i said israel's naked evil was an opportunity for nazis! because the tweet about israelis jumping the organ queue to steal patriotic american organs seems to be fake, so my point was that nazis can say whatever poo poo they want and it will seem plausible to people receptive to nazi messaging.
the facts that israelis go abroad to buy shady organs and harvest organs of palestinian children they've murdered are separate from the tweet about what appears to be made up poo poo by a nazi

and my point is that the guys a nazi making poo poo up but its not an antisemitic conspiracy theory because the state of israel is not a jew or representative of jews, who mostly live elsewhere

# ? Feb 28, 2024 17:53

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [P/I] Live Hamas

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