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Owlbear Camus posted:A "Fleet in being" except instead of ships extending control from a port, it's numbers on a spreadsheet extending control by their purchasing power to potentially secure the contracts to have the ships built to control the seas. Ah I see you've heard about the US strategic food reserve. The backwards Chinese just have a bunch of pork stored in government warehouses.
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Feb 28, 2024 17:16
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JAY ZERO SUM GAME posted:i think the prevalence of satellite surveillance means some agency tracks them closely and gives various facilities windows in which they can operate; area 51, for example, has a couple of hangars that are believed to be solely for when something needs to be hidden quickly well yeah there's stuff like the greenbrier: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Greek_Island I'd assume there is some successor site for a continuation of government bunker somewhere else i figure most of the underground bases are for things like that. hidey holes for the nuclear apocalypse. i don't think dulce base is real or anything but one way they kept the sr-71, black helicopters, and area 51 secret for decades was limited hangouts to crazy people, so I'm open to the idea of underground bases. plus los alamos did study a nuclear powered tunnel boring machine in the 70s: https://www.thedrive.com/news/these-forgotten-nuclear-tunnel-borers-were-designed-to-melt-tunnels-through-the-earth 
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Feb 28, 2024 17:18
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SixteenShells posted:closest thing to real underground bases are probably all those tunnel systems the brits built in WW2 in london The Nazis built an actual underground base in France to build and launch V2 rockets, complete with a massive concrete dome to bombproof it. The Allies simply bombed the site until a cliff collapsed on the entrance tunnels.
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Feb 28, 2024 17:24
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JAY ZERO SUM GAME posted:i think the prevalence of satellite surveillance means some agency tracks them closely and gives various facilities windows in which they can operate; area 51, for example, has a couple of hangars that are believed to be solely for when something needs to be hidden quickly Didn't the soviets build expensive tunnels/derp subways because they expected to get nuked?
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Feb 28, 2024 17:24
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I wonder where the replacement for Greenbriar is
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Feb 28, 2024 17:25
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Kassad posted:The Nazis built an actual underground base in France to build and launch V2 rockets, complete with a massive concrete dome to bombproof it. The Allies simply bombed the site until a cliff collapsed on the entrance tunnels. You do gotta respect countering a bombproof dome with more bombs. genericnick posted:Didn't the soviets build expensive tunnels/derp subways because they expected to get nuked? For ~some reason~ every drat industrial area Russia attacks in Ukraine has a massive underground tunnel system built like a goddamn fort.
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Feb 28, 2024 17:26
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Owlbear Camus posted:On Facebook I saw an article about planned Chinese lunar missions racking up a bunch of laugh reacts and openly racist "haha me chinese me make rocket on wish dot com. NASA is actually #1 in space USA!" comments from boomers and it's like. Man. You have not been keeping up on current events. Companies spent decades shifting all of their production to China as part of a general trend to reduce all costs, which included using lower quality materials and in general cutting the design lifespan to cut costs. People then started mistaking "low quality goods coming from China" with "china only makes low quality goods," and now you have the above. In truth, the US will lose WW3 also it took me too long to figure out why china wasn't getting hit by the spell check despite not being capitalized. I assume that it's china dishware.
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Feb 28, 2024 17:30
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SixteenShells posted:I wonder where the replacement for Greenbriar is Politicians probably have to individually arrange shelter positions from various factions. Also the actual shelters probably don’t exist.
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Feb 28, 2024 17:33
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genericnick posted:Didn't the soviets build expensive tunnels/derp subways because they expected to get nuked? i'm talking about entire underground bases that are otherwise undetectable or hundreds of underground hangars at airbases, things like that. everyone uses tunnels and things like that. they're just usually pretty obvious if you want to find them. JAY ZERO SUM GAME has issued a correction as of 17:38 on Feb 28, 2024 |
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Feb 28, 2024 17:35
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SixteenShells posted:I wonder where the replacement for Greenbriar is idk but dc has been digging a gigantic tunnel system for stormwater storage recently. basically a series of 5-m diameter tunnels hundreds of feet underground beneath the rivers that have like 90 million gallon volume. probably wouldn't be too hard to dig something else while they were at it
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Feb 28, 2024 17:44
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nah those tunnels are actually for the cabinet and congress, the anunnaki will just shove them in there so they're washed away
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Feb 28, 2024 17:46
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SixteenShells posted:I wonder where the replacement for Greenbriar is There are constant right-wing rumors of Biden building a bunker somewhere, but the reality is that they can just dispense with the notion of an elected government in the event of a disaster. The billionaires are busy building bunkers for themselves and nobody else.
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Feb 28, 2024 17:46
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JAY ZERO SUM GAME posted:nah those tunnels are actually for the cabinet and congress, the anunnaki will just shove them in there so they're washed away well they'd be flushed down to blue plains wwtp and shot into the activated sludge pits so i support the annunaki in this
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Feb 28, 2024 17:49
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Ardennes posted:Supposedly, the M10 (if they get built) would be a division asset they would be used to plug holes; however, you need the weapon companies on the ground integrated with the infantry battalions because that is where the actual fighting is going to be happening. That's not leaving the ibct with a whole lot of bang then is it e: so they're going to have what, like 61mm mortars, the M240B, and the organic javelin teams. Is that it?
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Feb 28, 2024 17:49
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kinda feels like they forgot to invite one or two folx Joint Statement Endorsing Principles for 6G: Secure, Open, and Resilient by Design - United States Department of State www.state.gov - Wed, 28 Feb 2024 posted:Media Note
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Feb 28, 2024 18:16
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JAY ZERO SUM GAME posted:"nfl teams don't bother trying to win games sometimes when they've already got the postseason wrapped up" If "the postseason" in this metaphor is climate death for humanity, then yeah, this actually tracks.
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Feb 28, 2024 18:28
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galagazombie posted:I think the answer is, like always, that the US military assumes that its 4 different air forces will just be able to bomb the primitive savages (who obviously cannot shoot back) with impunity and thus it doesn’t really matter how brittle and under armed your ground forces are. Because the enemy will have already been reduced to flaming wreckage by the fancy cruise missiles and invisible bombs you see. So the grunts will never have to worry about facing an actual organized military in the field. us ground forces assume this, but us air forces argue that at any moment a 5th gen fighter could enter the mix, so buying any sort of cheap CAS vehicle for the various colonialist wars is senseless.
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Feb 28, 2024 18:34
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US has no futher appetite for a game of “smear the near peer”
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Feb 28, 2024 18:38
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Kassad posted:The Nazis built an actual underground base in France to build and launch V2 rockets, complete with a massive concrete dome to bombproof it. The Allies simply bombed the site until a cliff collapsed on the entrance tunnels. That sounds more like luck than a deliberate plan
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Feb 28, 2024 18:40
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sullat posted:That sounds more like luck than a deliberate plan It's more that building a very visible V2 launch site in range of enemy bombers in 1943/1944 was not a very good plan, no matter how well you fortified the place.
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Feb 28, 2024 18:56
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:The company that made the generators and transformer converter, no longer exists, and you have to call some company in New Jersey if anything breaks. Following on from this thought, remember when many years ago a laptop was found in a Taliban compound, opened to a live stream from a US drone? And it turned out US drones were completely unencrypted? Everyone I talk to about it insists that it's no big deal and was absolutely fixed afterwards. And maybe this was. But it seems an entirely reasonable assumption that if the US was so lax in one instance, why wouldn't it be in other instances? What faith do we have that instead of having a single contractor fix a single issue, the US went through a complete top-down audit of all of their communications, signals, and weapons? Everyone made fun of Russian troops in 2014 posting on social media. lmao as if the US troops would be able to resist. We've already had the Reddit Brigade get cruise missiled in 2022 because they couldn't get off their phones in Ukraine. I imagine 202X American information discipline would look a hell of a lot like IDF.
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Feb 28, 2024 21:10
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Votskomit posted:
ive started beating this by calling out broad strokes of what is gonna happen way in advance and saying yo remember this so next time you believe me it works it you do it a few times in a row
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Feb 28, 2024 21:18
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Listen, the reality is that Russia is much, much, better at EW and has more EW assets. So who knows how much of this poo poo will even work? That's one reason of many drone mania is birdbrained imo, and if you remember when NATO was preparing for small RPVs to enter service for conventional war in Europe in the late 80's, the future RPVs they had planned used fibre optic cables for that reason. On top of jamming possibly crashing all of this poo poo overnight, the other issue, like you said is cryptography, and the third is direction finding. Neither of the three bodes well for the NATO art of war post 2000. Radios that don't work, are being listened to, or give your position away, are not good.
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Feb 28, 2024 21:21
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FirstnameLastname posted:ive started beating this by calling out broad strokes of what is gonna happen way in advance and saying yo remember this so next time you believe me I did this too and then Russia invaded Ukraine in mud season with fewer than 200k dudes.
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Feb 28, 2024 21:24
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imo the ussr had an advantage on electromagnetic field theory in general from the 50s onward bc the concepts behind it relate better to Soviet ideology than the west they were doing stuff in the 70s the west still ain't done
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Feb 28, 2024 21:24
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genericnick posted:I did this too and then Russia invaded Ukraine in mud season with fewer than 200k dudes. the US has not yet managed to establish a monopoly on stupidity; it is merely one of the leading producers
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Feb 28, 2024 21:32
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Well that's part of it but I think also people got insanely complacent and the tendencies towards micromanagement and the illusion of omniscience have placed a radio and some sort of UAV, sensor, loving aerostat everywhere, so that the highest possible headquarters - up the White House in the case of the Bin Laden Raid - can manage formations as small as a SEAL team. The problem is that it didn't occur to anyone that they might have to do their jobs tomorrow without these things, and instead they broke traditional formations and command hierarchies to micromanage better, and replaced conventional capabilities, like ground recce, with the promise of information fed from systems controlled by higher echelons, and even different branches, like UAVs under theatre command in the case of MQ-9s. I would like to see any brigade or division HQ in NATO try to operate under conditions where jamming is simulated (without them getting advanced notice and the umpires doing them solids every step of the way). How long would it take for them to even organize laying down field telephone lines? There are junior officers who can barely do paperwork on paper, they're so used to always having their toughbooks and the network for processing and disseminating their work. The same goes for map and compass vs GPS, and on and on.
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Feb 28, 2024 21:35
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Yeah, as far how it would work out, probably just chaos like the early days of the war. Some systems would work better than expected, some much worse or about as expected. I would say the issue with the West is just how brittle they are compared to the Russians as of 2024, the Russians have not only had their factories geared up but they have updated their conscription rolls, and have prep'ed their reserve equipment. They will at least continue to do this through 2025 if not longer. If the US/NATO had a "bad few months," then what? Throw some national guards in and conscripts in? Even if the Russians take losses, then have both the numbers and the ability to restore the capabilities of their units in a way I don't think the US or NATO can really do even if they start to pull dudes off the street.
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Feb 28, 2024 21:36
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i feel confident enough to say that if there is a way to fail at something by way of half-assery and laziness the burgerlanders are gonna find it
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Feb 28, 2024 21:38
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Ardennes posted:Yeah, as far how it would work out, probably just chaos like the early days of the war. Some systems would work better than expected, some much worse or about as expected. we've come up with a new strategy to deal with attrition of skilled operators of complex vehicles and crew served weapons and those pieces of equipment, which is simply dont give those things to formations we expect to be attrited in wartime. instead here's a whistle you can blow and an f15e will come help you.
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Feb 28, 2024 21:41
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Ardennes posted:(Also, even a Soviet regiment not only had a artillery battalion but its own anti-air battalion as well).
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Feb 28, 2024 21:43
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Well, replenish with loving what? The government is never going to order General Dynamics to produce more LAVs, even if a brigade got wiped out tomorrow. They would have to give them a financial incentive, and you bet your rear end GD would coyly hold out until the price got as high as possible, and then wait for GD to produce them at a leisurely pace. That's not even counting how many parts on the LAV rely on subcontractors, which also can't be ordered to turn production over to it, let alone at a rate and prices the government sets, so... could we replace combat losses? Idk, we have war stores in Montreal, thank God, but that's because we had a giant Cold War army and when downsizing happened some of that stuff was tucked away. There's not much new in there. The prime Canadian contractor for 155 shell bodies doesn't do the fill, and also they'd rather take orders from the automotive industry, and also, it's like a workshop with a few lathes to turn shells on. Colt Canada is now owned by CZ and most of their production is for the American commercial firearms market. Could we get them to produce C7s at rate tomorrow the way we had typewriter factories make a million Lee-Enfields? Not likely. We'd have to "nudge" them with a prince's ransom. Probably our most useful system, imo, ADATS, has been scrapped, and I don't know how we'd get Swiss firm Oerlikon to make more. Our legacy ATGMs in war stores are the French Eyrx and American TOW, and similarly, we don't have a lot of control over getting more - if that's even possible - other than offering them huge sums of money? While their national militaries are in the same predicament, we'd end up stuck in line, like we were for 777s, while BAE prioritized American and British orders for everyone else and we had to wait almost a decade for deliveries.
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Feb 28, 2024 21:45
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DJJIB-DJDCT posted:Well, replenish with loving what? im sorry, if you want to fire a canadian gun again youre gonna have to enlist in the ukr foreign legion
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Feb 28, 2024 21:47
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Delta-Wye posted:im sorry, if you want to fire a canadian gun again youre gonna have to enlist in the ukr foreign legion Too bad he can't get sent as a foreign observer to Russia, then he'd get to see a lot of guns being fired.
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Feb 28, 2024 21:50
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:Following on from this thought, remember when many years ago a laptop was found in a Taliban compound, opened to a live stream from a US drone? And it turned out US drones were completely unencrypted? that was one of the first times i saw a real-life example of political narratives shaped by how you reported facts rather than what facts were reported. everyone was talking about that, but lots of outlets were focusing on the "those dang terrorists were hacking our drones!" bit and not mentioning the staggeringly incompetent lack of security on the drone feeds
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Feb 28, 2024 21:50
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Votskomit posted:Had this conversation with family this week:
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Feb 28, 2024 21:53
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sullat posted:Too bad he can't get sent as a foreign observer to Russia, then he'd get to see a lot of guns being fired. Well, I'm sure we'll all learn from this, just like we all learned from Debaltseve.
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Feb 28, 2024 21:55
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Zeppelin Insanity posted:Following on from this thought, remember when many years ago a laptop was found in a Taliban compound, opened to a live stream from a US drone? And it turned out US drones were completely unencrypted? https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/08/15/botched-cia-communications-system-helped-blow-cover-chinese-agents-intelligence/
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Feb 28, 2024 21:57
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https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1762878909832392921 Blue-on-blue statistics down because the weapons failed to work. 
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Feb 28, 2024 22:00
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Danann posted:https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1762878909832392921 lol
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Feb 28, 2024 22:05
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