|
Illmade posted:https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/21/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-sexual-violence-report.html Oh look, it's Raz Cohen, quotes from the IDF, ZAKA and sourcing of that loving Anat Schwartz article again. It's been 2 entire days since we covered these.
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2024 23:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 16:16 |
|
|
Illmade posted:Literally nothing will satisfy you sickos except direct video of the rape taking place with signed testimony and id numbers of the Hamas members involved, and even then you will just say it is deepfake Joo propaganda. You've provided zero evidence. Please, give us a single witness name and quote.
|
|
#
?
Feb 28, 2024 23:57
|
|
|
punishedkissinger posted:You've provided zero evidence. Please, give us a single witness name and quote. Read the loving articles. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 00:05
|
|
|
Illmade posted:Read the loving articles. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 00:08
|
|
|
Illmade posted:Read the loving articles. Should the IDF and the coalition government in charge of Israel also be obliterated?
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 00:11
|
|
|
cat botherer posted:We have, you genocide-loving piece of garbage. Please provide your evidence that Israel is committing genocide. What is the name and direct quote from the Israeli official in charge of the ethnic cleansing campaign stating that their intention to commit genocide? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 00:19
|
|
|
Illmade posted:Please provide your evidence that Israel is committing genocide. What is the name and direct quote from the Israeli official in charge of the ethnic cleansing campaign stating that their intention to commit genocide? e: Under this standard of proof, can you supply quotes from Hamas leaders stating that they encourage rape? cat botherer fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Feb 29, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 00:22
|
|
|
Illmade posted:Read the loving articles. Your claims about Aaron Bushnell were shown to be lies, your poll showing support for Israel was shown to be misleading. Now you're trying your luck with "But do you condemn Hamas". It's pathetic.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 00:22
|
|
|
quote:'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 00:23
|
|
|
Here we go again!!
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 00:24
|
|
|
Illmade posted:Please provide your evidence that Israel is committing genocide. What is the name and direct quote from the Israeli official in charge of the ethnic cleansing campaign stating that their intention to commit genocide? Somehow you've managed to enter new depths of terrible loving posting on top of being an unabashed supporter of the slaughter of Innocents. Anyway, by the rules of D&D you've gotta reply to points people raise, so I'll ask you again also should the IDF and the Israeli government be "obliterated" because of their slaughter of 25k+ civilians? If Hamas should be because of 600-800 and a better ratio of hitting soldiers vs civilians, surely the IDF should face a similar reckoning.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 00:24
|
|
|
Could y’all stop giving absurd alhazred’s rereg the time of day
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 00:46
|
|
|
Illmade posted:Read the loving articles. We literally just went over all this.Can you please read the previous 2 pages before you go posting about debunked sources that have been discussed to death. National Parks posted:Reminder that there are still not named victums for any of the mass organized rape allegations from October 7th. Chemtrailologist posted:Those first responders were most likely from ZAKA. Esran posted:That Guardian article is a mess, and mostly doesn't do its own work, but instead appears to be often repeating claims provided by sources with an obvious agenda, including the problematic NYT article we just talked about.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 00:47
|
|
|
Illmade posted:Please provide your evidence that Israel is committing genocide. What is the name and direct quote from the Israeli official in charge of the ethnic cleansing campaign stating that their intention to commit genocide? Your bullshit framing aside - "What is the name and direct quote from the German official in charge of the Holocaust?" - there are *plenty* of quotes from Israeli ministers and members of the armed forces that are genocidal. Governments rarely release statements saying "lol I'mma commit a genocide' so we have to look at the mesh of statements and actions and see if that amounts to genocide. Happily, South Africa has an easily-accessible submission making exactly this case. Suggest that while you're fuming about being probated, you take a look at it: https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf pp59-70 are your friends. Go wild.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 09:26
|
|
|
idontpost69 posted:could've picked it up listening to radio war nerd. Ah yes notorious antisemite Mark Ames, the Brooklyn Jew who spends like an hour every episode hyperventilating about his kids allergies to the audience. Real storm front kinda guy lol
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 10:02
|
|
|
Zedhe Khoja posted:Ah yes notorious antisemite Mark Ames. Real storm front kinda guy lol first time I'm hearing this, do you have anything concrete?
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 10:19
|
|
|
Goa Tse-tung posted:first time I'm hearing this, do you have anything concrete? I think he is being sarcastic. Mark Ames super sucks though, but not in this way at least.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 10:37
|
|
|
Rumor has it he’s been seen in the same spaces as figures like Yasha Levine and Felix Biederman, notorious members of Adam Friedlands antisemitic podcast empire.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 10:37
|
|
|
Returning to the subject of Oct 7 sexual violence, The Intercept's put out a new article and...It's a bit of a doozy. "BETWEEN THE HAMMER AND THE ANVIL" The Story Behind the New York Times October 7 Exposé Essentially, the article orbits around Israeli interviews with Anat Schwartz; Discrediting the Exposé would be the optimistic take, she basically lays out the framework for an entirely opposite Exposé arguing against the existence of systemic sexual violence on October 7th. Not intentionally of course, rather that having no serious Journalism training means Anat doesn't realize how bad this looks for both her and the New York Times. The case against: Hospital testimony posted:In the interview, Schwartz, who did not respond to requests for comment, details her extensive efforts to get confirmation from Israeli hospitals, rape crisis centers, trauma recovery facilities, and sex assault hotlines in Israel, as well as her inability to get a single confirmation from any of them. “She was told there had been no complaints made of sexual assaults,” the Times spokesperson acknowledged after The Intercept brought the Channel 12 podcast episode to the paper’s attention. “This however was just the very first step of her research." Sexual Violence Ward testimony posted:Schwartz began her work on the violence of October 7 where one would expect, by calling around to the designated “Room 4” facilities in 11 Israeli hospitals that examine and treat potential victims of sexual violence, including rape. “First thing I called them all, and they told me, ‘No, no complaint of sexual assault was received,’" she recalled in the podcast interview. “I had a lot of interviews which didn’t lead anywhere. Like, I would go to all kinds of psychiatric hospitals, sit in front of the staff, all of them are fully committed to the mission and no one had met a victim of sexual assault.” Sexual Assault Hotline testimony posted:The next step was to call the manager of the sexual assault hotline in Israel’s south, which proved equally fruitless. The manager told her they had no reports of sexual violence. She described the call as a “crazy in-depth conversation” where she pressed for specific cases. “Did anyone call you? Did you hear anything?” she recalled asking. “How could it be that you didn’t?” Not even Zaka posted:Schwartz said she then began a series of extensive conversations with Israeli officials from Zaka, a private ultra-Orthodox rescue organization that has been documented to have mishandled evidence and spread multiple false stories about the events of October 7, including debunked allegations of Hamas operatives beheading babies and cutting the fetus from a pregnant woman’s body. Its workers are not trained forensic scientists or crime scene experts. “When we go into a house, we use our imagination,” said Yossi Landau, a senior Zaka official, describing the group’s work at the October 7 attack sites. “The bodies were telling us what happened, that’s what happened.” Landau is featured in the Times report, though no mention is made of his well-documented track record of disseminating sensational stories of atrocities that were later proven false. Schwartz said that in her initial interviews, Zaka members did not make any specific allegations of rape, but described the general condition of bodies they said they saw. “They told me, ‘Yes, we saw naked women,’ or ‘We saw a woman without underwear.’ Both naked without underwear, and tied with zip ties. And sometimes not zip ties, sometimes a rope or a string of a hoodie.” Kibbutz testimony posted:Schwartz continued to look for evidence at various sites of attack and found no witnesses to corroborate stories of rape. “And so I searched a lot in the kibbutzim, and apart from this testimony of [the Israeli military paramedic] and additionally, here and there, Zaka people — the stories, like, didn’t emerge from there,” she said. Holistic Care testimony posted:On the podcast, Schwartz said her next step was to go to a new holistic therapy facility established to address the trauma of October 7 victims, particularly those who endured the carnage at the Nova music festival. Opened a week after the attacks, the facility began welcoming hundreds of survivors where they could seek counseling, do yoga, and receive alternative medicine, as well as acupuncture, sound healing, and reflexology treatments. They called it Merhav Marpe, or Healing Space. "Schwartz doesn't buy this one posted:According to the published Times article, “Two therapists said they were working with a woman who was gang raped at the rave and was in no condition to talk to investigators or reporters.” Firsthand testimony posted:In the Channel 12 podcast, Schwartz is asked if firsthand testimonies of women who survived rape on October 7 exist. “I can’t really speak about this, but the vast majority of women who have been sexually assaulted on October 7 were shot immediately after, and that’s [where] the big numbers [are],” she replied. “The majority are corpses. Some women managed to escape and survive.” She added, “I do know that there is a very significant element of dissociation when it comes to sexual assault. So a lot of times they don’t remember. They don’t remember everything. They remember fragments of the events, and they can’t always describe how they ended up on the road and [how they were] rescued.” "There is nothing." posted:At some story meetings, Schwartz said on the Channel 12 podcast, guests with Middle East expertise were there to offer probing questions. “We had a weekly meeting, and you bring out the status of your work on your project,” she said. “And Times writers and guests who are concerned with Middle Eastern affairs coming from all kinds of places in the world, they ask you questions that challenge you, and it’s excellent that they do that, because you yourself, all the time, like — you don’t believe yourself for a moment.” What she/Gettleman decided to actually base the article on: Inconsistent Medic posted:As Schwartz began her own efforts to find evidence of sexual assault, the first specific allegations of rape began to emerge. A person identified in anonymous media interviews as a paramedic from the Israeli Air Force medical unit 669 claimed he saw evidence that two teenage girls at Kibbutz Nahal Oz had been raped and murdered in their bedroom. The man made other outrageous claims, however, that called his report into question. He claimed another rescuer “pulled out of the garbage” a baby who’d been stabbed multiple times. He also said he had seen “Arabic sentences that were written on entrances to houses … with the blood of the people that were living in the houses.” No such messages exist, and the story of the baby in the trashcan has been debunked. The bigger problem was that no two girls at the kibbutz fit the source’s description. In future interviews, he changed the location to Kibbutz Be’eri. But no victims killed there matched the description either, as Mondoweiss reported. IDF Rabbi, Pelvis Whisperer posted:As she continued to work the phones with rescue officials, Schwartz then saw interviews that international news channels began airing with Shari Mendes, an American architect who serves in a rabbinical unit of the Israel Defense Forces. Mendes, who was deployed to a morgue to prepare bodies for burial after the October 7 attacks, claimed to have seen voluminous evidence of sexual assaults. We'll get right back to you with all that evidence posted:“Israeli police officials shared more evidence on Tuesday of atrocities committed during the Oct. 7 Hamas-led attacks, saying they had collected testimonies from more than a thousand witnesses and survivors about sexual violence and other abuses,” Schwartz reported. The story went on to quote Israel’s police chief, Kobi Shabtai, explaining a litany of evidence of gruesome killings and sexual assaults on October 7. I'm aware of the goofy memes about Israel being a haven for sex offenders, but I'm sure Israel has rape kits, right? And they wouldn't have those if the burial rites for nearly the entirety of their state didn't give them enough time to be used, right? I seriously hope we're not talking about a country that does not investigate post-mortem rape. This alleged attack wasn't done by Hamas, but it would make for a killer headline, that's the important part, right? posted:Schwartz watched interviews given to international media outlets by Raz Cohen, who attended the Nova festival. A veteran of Israel’s special forces, Cohen did multiple interviews about a rape he claimed to have witnessed. During his first media interview after the October 7 attacks, he said that from his hiding spot, he couldn’t see what was going on, only hear it. A few days later, he told PBS NewsHour that he had witnessed multiple rapes. “The terrorists, people from Gaza, raped girls. And after they raped them, they killed them, murdered them with knives, or the opposite, killed — and after they raped, they — they did that,” he said. At an appearance on CNN on January 4, he described seeing one rape and said the assailants were “five guys — five civilians from Gaza, normal guys, not soldiers, not Nukhba,” referring to Hamas’s elite commando force. “It was regular people from Gaza with normal clothes.” Maybe he peeked through his hands, maybe he left the NYT holding the bag posted:Schwartz said in the podcast interview that, since the Times insisted on at least two sources, she asked Cohen to give her the contact information of the other people he was hiding with in the bush, so she could corroborate his story of the rape. She recalled, “Raz hides. In the bush next to him lies his friend Shoam. They get to this bush. There are two other people on the other side looking to the other direction, and another, fifth, person. Five people in the same bush. Only Raz sees all the things he sees, everyone else is looking in a different direction.” Torture is the wellspring of Truth posted:In addition to Cohen’s testimony, Schwartz said on the Channel 12 podcast that she also watched video of an interrogation of a Palestinian prisoner taken by the IDF whom she said described “girls” being dragged by Palestinian attackers into the woods near the Nova festival. She was also moved, she said, by a clip of an interview she watched in November at a press conference hosted by Israeli officials, the one that became the focus of her first Times article. Too many breast-less corpses to find the raped one posted:The Times report states they interviewed Sapir for two hours at a cafe in southern Israel, and she described witnessing multiple rapes, including an incident where one attacker rapes a woman as another cuts off her breastwith a box cutter. Bonus Round - Phantom Eyewitnesses posted:Sandberg was also quoted attacking women’s rights organizations in a December 4 New York Times article, headlined “What We Know About Sexual Violence During the Oct. 7 Attacks on Israel” and whose publication coincided with the launch of the PR campaign at the U.N. The article, also reported by Gettleman, Schwartz, and Sella, relied on claims made by Israeli officials and acknowledged the Times had not yet been able to corroborate the allegations. A revealing correction was subsequently appended to the story: “An earlier version of this article misstated the kind of evidence Israeli police have gathered in investigating accusations of sexual violence committed on Oct. 7 in the attack by Hamas against Israel. The police are relying mainly on witness testimony, not on autopsies or forensic evidence.” Hamas harnesses the Speed Force posted:The December 28 article “Screams Without Words” opened with the story of Gal Abdush, described by the Times as “the woman in the black dress.” Video of her charred body appeared to show her bottomless. “Israeli police officials said they believed that Ms. Abdush was raped,” the Times reported. The article labeled Abdush “a symbol of the horrors visited upon Israeli women and girls during the October 7 attacks.” The Times report mentions WhatsApp messages from Abdush and her husband to their family, but doesn’t mention that some family members believe that the crucial messages make the Israeli officials’ claims implausible. As Mondoweiss later reported, Abdush texted the family at 6:51 a.m., saying they were in trouble at the border. At 7:00, her husband messaged to say she’d been killed. Her family said the charring came from a grenade. Thousands of eyewitnesses, four rapes posted:On the Channel 12 podcast, Schwartz said the last remaining piece she needed for the story was a solid number from the Israeli authorities about any possible survivors of sexual violence. “We have four and we can stand behind that number,” she said she was told by the Ministry of Welfare and Social Affairs. No details were provided. The Times story ultimately reported there were “at least three women and one man who were sexually assaulted and survived.” The coordinated effort to create this article: Genesis: New York Times posted:Schwartz said as much in an interview with Israeli Army Radio on December 31. “The New York Times said, ‘Let’s do an investigation into sexual violence’ — it was more a case of them having to convince me,” she said. Her host cut her off: “It was a proposal of The New York Times, the entire thing?” Police pressure posted:She also said that Israeli police sources were pressuring her to move quickly to publish. She said they asked her, “What, does the New York Times not believe there were sexual assaults here?” Schwartz felt like she was in the middle. False Pretenses posted:Another relative [of Gal Abdush] suggested the family was pressured, under false pretenses, to speak with the reporters. Abdush’s sister wrote on Instagram that the Times reporters “mentioned they want to write a report in memory of Gal, and that’s it. If we knew that the title would be about rape and butchery, we’d never accept that.” In its follow-up story, the Times sought to discredit her initial comment, quoting Abdush’s sister as saying she “had been ‘confused about what happened’ and was trying to ‘protect my sister.’” Admission of propaganda posted:The woman who filmed Abdush on October 7 told the Israeli site YNet that Schwartz and Sella had pressured her into giving the paper access to her photos and videos for the purposes of serving Israeli propaganda. “They called me again and again and explained how important it is to Israeli hasbara,” she recalled, using the term for public diplomacy, which in practice refers to Israeli propaganda efforts directed at international audiences. It's positively insane, she lays this journey out like some sort of triumph of dogged determination & savvy investigation, unaware that it looks incredibly bad. We should honestly be grateful that Gettleman decided to help out some family friends, because if any actually professional investigative journalist had been on this thing, we absolutely wouldn't have first-hand testimony on how terrible the article is, and on the NYT's drive to make the article. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 11:06 on Feb 29, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 10:59
|
|
|
She does the classic NYT warmongering thing of using an absence of evidence as evidence in and of itself. "Look at how sinister this complete silence on the subject is, it must be so horrible no one wants to talk about it"
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 11:54
|
|
|
In a sane world the people responsible for knowingly printing vile atrocity propaganda that's used to justify a genocide would be put on trial, but they will never face any consequences for this.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 12:38
|
|
|
At the very least people who keep pushing atrocity propaganda that's already been debunked in this thread should face some consequences to get them to stop.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 13:54
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:It's positively insane, she lays this journey out like some sort of triumph of dogged determination & savvy investigation, unaware that it looks incredibly bad. We should honestly be grateful that Gettleman decided to help out some family friends, because if any actually professional investigative journalist had been on this thing, we absolutely wouldn't have first-hand testimony on how terrible the article is, and on the NYT's drive to make the article. Holy loving poo poo, she just comes right out and says it all. Thank you for posting this.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 14:01
|
|
|
IDF reports that they shot a bunch of civilians who were trying to get aid from a truck https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveb...openwebComments quote:An officer stationed in the area ordered to fire warning shots in the air as the Palestinians were within a few dozen meters, as well as gunfire at the legs of those who continued to move toward the troops, the probe says.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 14:59
|
|
|
punishedkissinger posted:IDF reports that they shot a bunch of civilians who were trying to get aid from a truck "There are no civilians in Gaza" - one of the comments on that article
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 15:20
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:Returning to the subject of Oct 7 sexual violence, The Intercept's put out a new article and...It's a bit of a doozy. Wow, this is a lot. In response to the latest propagandist in here. Trying to lay out a gotcha in here with the request of proof of Israeli genocide is quite hilarious in light of the dozens of quotes from Israeli government figures in favour of genocide. Like did you even read the South Africa ICJ case?
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 15:26
|
|
|
Moderators: Given that Intercerpt article, unless actual credible anything comes to light to indicate that the mass rapes etc did happen, I think people using them as an excuse, justification, or distraction for Israel's actions should probably just be banned. Because at this point it is just repeating lies in service to genocide, and we don't really need that in our Debates & Discussions, do we?
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 17:14
|
|
|
punishedkissinger posted:IDF reports that they shot a bunch of civilians who were trying to get aid from a truck Casualty estimates are possibly in the triple-digits, and here's what Ben-Gvir had to say about it, since someone was asking for clearly-stated genocidal intent: https://x.com/owenjones84/status/1763230393250046430?s=46&t=ARI_L-v32Oind1-d9B3a3Q
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 17:15
|
|
|
I'm seeing buzz of Biden backtracking on the whole "truce by the weekend" statement, but nothing official yet. Has anyone seen anything concrete?
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 18:29
|
|
|
Sephyr posted:I'm seeing buzz of Biden backtracking on the whole "truce by the weekend" statement, but nothing official yet. Has anyone seen anything concrete? Both Hamas and Israel have publicly said they don't know what Biden's talking about. He lied. https://www.timesofisrael.com/biden-a-longtime-friend-israel-critic-of-settlements-may-be-at-odds-over-iran/ posted:In June 1982, a few days after the start of the Lebanon War, known as Operation Peace for the Galilee, Begin met with the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in Washington. Several lawmakers grilled him over Israel’s alleged disproportionate use of force. Biden is the worst possible president for this moment in time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 18:53
|
|
|
NYT has started an internal investigation in the Intercept story about the atrocious rape propaganda. Naturally, to uncover why their editorial processes broke down and why the published such dreck, right? Nope, it’s a leak investigation to find out who is contributing to their humiliation by airing out the details. Their instincts are impeccable. https://twitter.com/charlottetklein/status/1763258371925217709
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 19:34
|
|
|
Esran posted:Both Hamas and Israel have publicly said they don't know what Biden's talking about. Biden doesn't know what Biden is talking about. I still posit that there's way worse than Biden. Remember the GOP and Trump position isn't to even attempt a mealy mouthed half hearted statement of please stop murdering people. It's give all the weapons we were giving to Ukraine to you, please genocide harder and cleanse the holy land.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 19:48
|
|
|
Esran posted:Both Hamas and Israel have publicly said they don't know what Biden's talking about. You realize Donald trump exists, right?
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 19:50
|
|
|
Caros posted:You realize Donald trump exists, right? If he was president, the Democrats would have to at least pretend to try and oppose him. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 20:06
|
|
|
Oscar Wilde Bunch posted:Biden doesn't know what Biden is talking about. Biden not knowing about what he's talking about is a completely important issue that should not be ignored (or lying purposefully, even, as the OP you quoted said). I also don't think it's important to have Badder Guys to compare to having a really bad president who endorses genocides and, as you say, doesn't even know what he himself is talking about or is consciously lying. Like if a friend told you they had cancer a bad response would be "there are worse diseases out there." It doesn't help the really bad condition that they are in at all and does not actually make it a good condition.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 20:18
|
|
|
Oscar Wilde Bunch posted:Biden doesn't know what Biden is talking about. Caros posted:You realize Donald trump exists, right? "Trump would do the things Biden is also doing, but wouldn't bother with the PR" isn't a strong pitch, and I think it's weird you felt the need to jump to Biden's defense. Are there even red lines? Esran fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Feb 29, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 20:22
|
|
|
I think it's fair to say that Trump would be equally bad to Biden, if in subtly different ways, and that this is not a consolation because (a) we're now well into the worst-case scenario for Gaza, and (b) the fact that support for a fully genocidal Israel is completely bipartisan is more terrifying, not less.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 20:25
|
|
|
Caros posted:You realize Donald trump exists, right? It's hard to imagine how much worse every single american decision in this genocide could be. What could Trump possibly do that exceeds how poorly the Biden administration has handled this? Circumvent congress to keep arming Israel so they can continue to bomb civilians? Authorize airstrikes on other regional powers solely because they are aligned with Iran? Dispute the Palestinian death toll? Lie about seeing pictures of beheaded babies that don't exist and then just kinda shrug when they are proven to not exist?
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 20:25
|
|
|
National Parks posted:Circumvent congress to keep arming Israel so they can continue to bomb civilians? Legit I could see him try to push for #1, he might not succeed in making much difference but he'd try. And definitely he'd do more sporadic bombing, especially in response to Houthis attacks on shipping. It's honestly possible he'd help Israel attack specific targets in Lebanon. I don't think Trump would do much in Gaza directly, mostly cause Israel's already doing about the maximum that a modern military can do in the area. He would not try to send troops anywhere, but no US President would these last 4 years.
|
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 21:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 13, 2024 16:16 |
|
|
National Parks posted:What could Trump possibly do that exceeds how poorly the Biden administration has handled this? Orthanc6 posted:Legit I could see him try to push for #1, he might not succeed in making much difference but he'd try. Orthan: This is something that Biden did. So, your hypothetical Trump (try for) is less bad than actual Biden (did that). That you (and others with similar sentiment) didn't know that and also attributed it to the Big Bad Guy We Must Stop is the whole problem with how liberals are defending Biden's genocide. The made up scenario that's "worse" is the actual scenario right now but "it could be worse" becomes an excuse to ignore reality. The Sean fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Feb 29, 2024 |
|
#
?
Feb 29, 2024 21:17
|
|