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John F Bennett
Jan 30, 2013

I always wear my wedding ring. It's my trademark.

kvx687 posted:

... but I'm not sure it's worth $15.

How about €8.24? Which is the price for the next 34 hours.

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Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

You'll probably get at least as many hours of fun out of it as two pints, I suppose

Megazver
Jan 13, 2006

Quixzlizx posted:

Anyone here have opinions of Ozymandias?

I spent a few hours playing it after I got it in a bundle. Good bundle game, I'd probably regret buying it at half-price.

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?

Jarvisi posted:

There's a ton of mods to fix these things

The mods I've tried have all added way too many unit variants for it to make any sense.

Then again, I've only ever installed those sweeping megamod deals. Is there one that does nothing but enable the AI in a multiplayer conquest game? I remember that any fight against the AI is auto resolved in multiplayer, so that's no fun either.

Quixzlizx
Jan 7, 2007
Thanks for the replies, it's currently a part of this bundle, and I thought Ozymandias/Barony/Doom Eternal might be a good combo for $15.

https://www.fanatical.com/en/pick-and-mix/diamond-collection-build-your-own-bundle

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Quixzlizx posted:

Thanks for the replies, it's currently a part of this bundle, and I thought Ozymandias/Barony/Doom Eternal might be a good combo for $15.

https://www.fanatical.com/en/pick-and-mix/diamond-collection-build-your-own-bundle

That bundle's great, it has the full Dread X collection.

Ozymandias sounds cool, like, it may not be a full 4X experience but I'm busy trying to learn AOW3 (and then Planetfall and 4) so I do not need another full 4X right now.

Rappaport
Oct 2, 2013

Cross-posting just in case




Sale price until the 21st

Senethro
May 18, 2005

I unironically think I'm Garret, Master Thief.
Hello SMAC old friend, I did not expect to see you here, but you are most welcome.

SIGSEGV
Nov 4, 2010


The one actual question is if we have to go through and log in to three dozen EA launchers or if we can just natively launch it from steam.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

SIGSEGV posted:

The one actual question is if we have to go through and log in to three dozen EA launchers or if we can just natively launch it from steam.

No launchers! It's just the game.

SIGSEGV
Nov 4, 2010


Unexpectedly well behaved of them.

LLSix
Jan 20, 2010

The real power behind countless overlords

Rappaport posted:

Cross-posting just in case

Sale price until the 21st

Oh, neat! I almost bought it but then I remembered I have it on GOG already. It looks like it's the exact same version. Still tempted to get it again just to have it on steam, but I'm not sure I want to give EA money.

You can get all the Command & Conquer games for $10 too.

titty_baby_
Nov 11, 2015

Rappaport posted:

Cross-posting just in case

Sale price until the 21st

If they make multi-player easier I'm buying

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010

Endless Space 2 finally un-hosed the final DLC with a big patch 5 years after it's release.
It's a great game, highly recommended.

shimmy shimmy
Nov 13, 2020

Jack Trades posted:

Endless Space 2 finally un-hosed the final DLC with a big patch 5 years after it's release.
It's a great game, highly recommended.

What'd they do to make it better? I remember the game being very shallow at release, I played a decent bit of Endless Space 1 but never got very into ES2 since it seemed basically the same but worse in some ways.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010

shimmy shimmy posted:

What'd they do to make it better? I remember the game being very shallow at release, I played a decent bit of Endless Space 1 but never got very into ES2 since it seemed basically the same but worse in some ways.

Uhh...if you haven't touched the game since release then there are been a massive number of updates and DLCs since then adding all kinds of stuff.
ES2 has one of the most mechanically unique 4X races I've ever seen, for example, the like of which I haven't seen any any other 4X game. Umbral Choir.

The patch that got released just now just fixes a bunch of issues the last DLC had.

Comstar
Apr 20, 2007

Are you happy now?
So SMAC(X) is on steam for a few bucks. What mods should I get that work with it?


Edit- after playing for several hours...oh god this game needs tool tips.

Comstar fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Mar 11, 2024

Bloodly
Nov 3, 2008

Not as strong as you'd expect.
Possibly, but the in game DataLinks are very strong help and explanation.

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?



Millenia's Chivalry national spirit looks like a young boy forced into a costume by his mom, getting a picture taken he really doesn't want to pose for.

DoubleDonut
Oct 22, 2010


Fallen Rib
Did anyone ever make a 4x with an AI that's actually interesting to play against? I never finish games because I end up with an inevitable victory early on that will unfortunately take me hours of tedium to actually play out

edit: like the last time I played SMAC one of the AIs killed every other AI by turn 150, and then proceeded to get hung up on one chokepoint I had for the next few hundred turns while I got a transcendence victory

nrook
Jun 25, 2009

Just let yourself become a worthless person!

DoubleDonut posted:

Did anyone ever make a 4x with an AI that's actually interesting to play against? I never finish games because I end up with an inevitable victory early on that will unfortunately take me hours of tedium to actually play out

Two different things, I’m afraid. Civ4 got the first one by the end, at least with Aggressive AI enabled and the BetterAI mod. But any game that snowballs is going to have the second problem.

I mean, I guess there’s Offworld Trading Company. That’s a sort of 4X, arguably.

Megazver
Jan 13, 2006

DoubleDonut posted:

Did anyone ever make a 4x with an AI that's actually interesting to play against? I never finish games because I end up with an inevitable victory early on that will unfortunately take me hours of tedium to actually play out

edit: like the last time I played SMAC one of the AIs killed every other AI by turn 150, and then proceeded to get hung up on one chokepoint I had for the next few hundred turns while I got a transcendence victory

SMAC has AI mods, have you tried those?

Mayveena
Dec 27, 2006

People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR

DoubleDonut posted:

Did anyone ever make a 4x with an AI that's actually interesting to play against? I never finish games because I end up with an inevitable victory early on that will unfortunately take me hours of tedium to actually play out

edit: like the last time I played SMAC one of the AIs killed every other AI by turn 150, and then proceeded to get hung up on one chokepoint I had for the next few hundred turns while I got a transcendence victory

AI War 2

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

"..The high ground"
Most 4x games in general, even if the ai is good, will usually be decided by snowballing advantages gained in the first 50-125 turns anyway.

Megazver
Jan 13, 2006
someone is probably already working on a game that does to 4X what Against the Storm did to town builders

victrix
Oct 30, 2007


Megazver posted:

someone is probably already working on a game that does to 4X what Against the Storm did to town builders

literally been praying for this since I played it

orangelex44
Oct 11, 2012

Definition of orange:

Any of a group of colors that are between red and yellow in hue. Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Old Occitan, from Arabic, from Persian, from Sanskrit.

Definition of lex:

Law. Latin.

AI War isn’t a 4x game, it’s a puzzle game. The “advanced AI” is moreso a list of ever-increasing complications towards figuring out if you fleet of power X can handle a planet of power Y, and in what order to kick down said beatable planets.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

orangelex44 posted:

AI War isn’t a 4x game, it’s a puzzle game. The “advanced AI” is moreso a list of ever-increasing complications towards figuring out if you fleet of power X can handle a planet of power Y, and in what order to kick down said beatable planets.

It has all the Xs... I guess exploit is debatable.

Tree Bucket
Apr 1, 2016

R.I.P.idura leucophrys

Jack Trades posted:

Endless Space 2 finally un-hosed the final DLC with a big patch 5 years after it's release.
It's a great game, highly recommended.

I'm enjoying post-patch ES2 a lot- the academy fleet changes are great. I haven't really got to grips with the ship combat changes yet, though

victrix
Oct 30, 2007


Tree Bucket posted:

I'm enjoying post-patch ES2 a lot- the academy fleet changes are great. I haven't really got to grips with the ship combat changes yet, though

I loved es/2 but they were totally unplayable for me due to ai issues, so I figured I'd check this out

go look up a video on the patch, first thing is loading up three additional mods containing ai and balance changes :cripes:

I can't decide if this genre is cursed or I'm cursed because I foolishly keep touching the hot stove

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011
Near three decades of playing 4Xes have taught me that Good 4X AI not only isn't achievable, it's probably not worth it at all. I have sour grapes'd Good 4X AI, and I will not be convinced otherwise because if thirty years of 4X games haven't made this mythical Good 4X AI then it probably cannot be done. I have won the war against myself...I love Big Brother

victrix
Oct 30, 2007


toasterwarrior posted:

Near three decades of playing 4Xes have taught me that Good 4X AI not only isn't achievable, it's probably not worth it at all. I have sour grapes'd Good 4X AI, and I will not be convinced otherwise because if thirty years of 4X games haven't made this mythical Good 4X AI then it probably cannot be done. I have won the war against myself...I love Big Brother

oh I'm with you, to be clear, when I say "ai issues" I mean "I don't think the game can actually play the game"

I don't care about balance or cheating as long as the game is fun. Bonus if it's challenging.

basically all of amplitude's games have been "holy poo poo I love this setting and these races" followed closely by "holy poo poo there's no game here"

anyway I'm also mocking myself because I'll check it out, but maaaaaaan

the against the storm 4x can't come soon enough

Senethro
May 18, 2005

I unironically think I'm Garret, Master Thief.

toasterwarrior posted:

Near three decades of playing 4Xes have taught me that Good 4X AI not only isn't achievable, it's probably not worth it at all. I have sour grapes'd Good 4X AI, and I will not be convinced otherwise because if thirty years of 4X games haven't made this mythical Good 4X AI then it probably cannot be done. I have won the war against myself...I love Big Brother

This is me. I moved from civs into paradox grand strategy looking for narratives rather than symmetry and balance. Just now I've picked up Solium Infernum which is a game that is wearing a 4X's clothes, but is actually about lying and cheating board game style.

The wish for a good 4X AI is only a slight pang now.

Tree Bucket
Apr 1, 2016

R.I.P.idura leucophrys

Senethro posted:

This is me. I moved from civs into paradox grand strategy looking for narratives rather than symmetry and balance. Just now I've picked up Solium Infernum which is a game that is wearing a 4X's clothes, but is actually about lying and cheating board game style.

The wish for a good 4X AI is only a slight pang now.

Oh for sure. I feel like gaming nostalgia is the worst for 4X games, because even the worst AI seems like a cunning and devious opponent when you're 12 years old. The games weren't better; I was just worse.
Strategy board games are great, but the really hard part is finding a group of players of roughly equal skill level and similar headspace re: treachery and nastiness. Otherwise people have a bad time.

victrix posted:

I loved es/2 but they were totally unplayable for me due to ai issues, so I figured I'd check this out

go look up a video on the patch, first thing is loading up three additional mods containing ai and balance changes :cripes:

I can't decide if this genre is cursed or I'm cursed because I foolishly keep touching the hot stove

Sigh. Yes. The AI is still terrible and they haven't fixed the two big problems of a) the AI rejecting basically ever offer even after you click "suggest a fair trade" and b) alliances being a machine for dropping you in and out of wars more or less at random. But as a single-player city-builder-esque puzzle, ES2 is great fun, in a Number Go Up sort of way.

Veryslightlymad
Jun 3, 2007

I fight with
my brain
and with an
underlying
hatred of the
Erebonian
Noble Faction

Megazver posted:

someone is probably already working on a game that does to 4X what Against the Storm did to town builders

Would you settle for 3 out of 4 Xs?

Terraformers does this, but there's no "Exterminate" because there's no opponent. Nonetheless it's very much a "grow out your empire and hit major objectives" in the way that 4Xs are. Your enemy is basically random events and the clock.

Super Jay Mann
Nov 6, 2008

If you want 4X AI that can actually be challenging then just play Through the Ages digitally.

TheDeadlyShoe
Feb 14, 2014

Amplitude 4xs have intrinsically bad AI because the exponential expansion they all feature is completely bonkers

Of course if you're playing against humans you will also have the same problems of one side outrunning the others 10:1 so really is the AI the problem?

Tree Bucket
Apr 1, 2016

R.I.P.idura leucophrys

TheDeadlyShoe posted:

Amplitude 4xs have intrinsically bad AI because the exponential expansion they all feature is completely bonkers

Of course if you're playing against humans you will also have the same problems of one side outrunning the others 10:1 so really is the AI the problem?

It's most glaring in the quests, which do not appear to take this into account. Mid-late game you'll get a quest that involves searching an anomaly and spending 500 dust, at a point where your income is in the multiple thousands...

toasterwarrior
Nov 11, 2011
Humankind really solidified by view of Amplitude game design being "wow look at all these synergies" and turns out it's usually synergies that synergize with themselves to make bigger numbers of whatever they already pump out as opposed to cool combos that encourage cross-specialization like Civ 6 does. Maybe one day they'll figure it out, or maybe they'll just return to their Endless universe and let the aesthetic keep carrying the series, which I can respect TBH.

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Loddfafnir
Mar 27, 2021

toasterwarrior posted:

Near three decades of playing 4Xes have taught me that Good 4X AI not only isn't achievable, it's probably not worth it at all. I have sour grapes'd Good 4X AI, and I will not be convinced otherwise because if thirty years of 4X games haven't made this mythical Good 4X AI then it probably cannot be done. I have won the war against myself...I love Big Brother

Old World has a good AI

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