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Shanghaied
Oct 12, 2004

BIG PAD

mystes posted:

This is just evidence that Mormons were using made up names. It is not evidence that, for example, the majority of people using made up names in the US were Mormons, or evidence that the current trend of people on social media giving made up names to their kids is derived from Mormon culture.

It does seem like religious stay at home mothers are very well represented on social media, probably for the reasons comforthawk is saying, but that's still different than specifically showing that this naming trend was started by mormons or derived from mormon culture.

That's not to say that I don't think it's impossible or implausible; it just requires evidence, and saying that Mormons often uses unique names is not evidence of that.

No we're basically on the same page. My point is simply that Mormon name thing predates the internet.

It does show that certain types of names are more common among Utah Mormons (compared to neighbouring Colorado, where the guy's second dataset comes from).

The chapter author does cite another researcher who had an interesting theory on the link between religion and Southern working class names - the denominations most common in the South (basically various flavours of baptism) don't baptise infants, therefore an educated priest usually can't intervene when the parents choose to name their child something stupid. It's possibly the same for the LDS, since they also don't baptise infants.

As for whether the wider trend is the Mormon's fault, I don't know yet. Between browsing the thread and making dinner, I've only skimmed through the first 25 pages of the chapter (now we're on data from 2012!). We'll see.

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titty_baby_
Nov 11, 2015

Kinda funny that religious officials were the last line of defense for protecting babies from lovely names

DreamingofRoses
Jun 27, 2013
Nap Ghost
AITA for telling my kids that I won’t be lonely for the rest of my life and if they don’t come to my wedding you clearly don’t give a poo poo about my happiness

quote:

Everyone is an adult

My husband has been officially dead for three year, he might as well have been dead for a few years already though. He was declining for a long time and was basically a veggie for three years until he passed. I was the one that took care of him until he went to a high care facility. In all honesty, I already started the mourning process years before he died. So when he did die, I already accepted it.

I started to date right after his death and I met a very nice guy. We have been together for a while and he proposed to me. He is also a widow. I’ll can him Tim. Tim is a great guy and my kids hate him. He has done nothing to make them hate him, the worst he has done the whole time was go on a rant about planes.

My kids hate his guts, they really hate that I am moving on. I have discussed this before with them and it boils down to I am replacing their father. All I ask is for them to be polite to him. He doesn’t deserve their hate.

He proposed and I said yes. I informed the kids at a family dinner that I am getting remarried. They blew up and it started an argument. Two said they will not come to my wedding on principle of the whole thing. I informed my kids I won’t be lonely for my whole life and if they don’t come to my wedding they clearly don’t give a poo poo about my happiness.

They called me a jerk and I want an outside opinion

Deified Data
Nov 3, 2015


Fun Shoe
"officially dead"

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Deified Data posted:

"officially dead"

Sounds like alzheimer's or some such. It's not uncommon for family of someone who died to it thinking of them as dead when their mind is truly gone and the body just takes a while to catch up.

It's how my family dealt with my grandfather suffering from it. We mourned him long before he biologically died, and it sounds like this woman did the same for her husband but the kids did not.

Shanghaied
Oct 12, 2004

BIG PAD

DreamingofRoses posted:

AITA for telling my kids that I won’t be lonely for the rest of my life and if they don’t come to my wedding you clearly don’t give a poo poo about my happiness

OP's the rear end in a top hat. A widow must remain unmarried and chaste for the rest of her life. She must also wear black for the rest of her life to show mourning. It is also acceptable if she enters a convent.

Cerekk
Sep 24, 2004

Oh my god, JC!

Shanghaied posted:

lol I don't wanna be that teacher, but when my students ask me if they can cite master's (or god help them, bachelor's) theses in their own work, I tell them that they aren't even allowed to cite doctoral theses unless it's parts that have been published.

Also Jennifer, when I say you need at least 40 references, I meant published work. You are not allowed to list the your own interviews in your reference list. We need to talk.

But anyway, going through her reference list does lead me to this book:

https://www.routledge.com/Perspectives-on-Latter-day-Saint-Names-and-Naming-Names-Identity-and/Oaks-Baltes-Minson/p/book/9781032350431

Why the hell would original research be an unacceptable part of an academic work?

Sorry Prof. Roentgen, you can't publish this stuff about "X-rays" because you haven't cited enough other published works.

Quackles
Aug 11, 2018

Pixels of Light.


comforthawk posted:

it's the mormons breaching containment

mormon culture disempowers women from leading, but what a goodly lds woman IS allowed to do is influence--so you get this slew of perky lifestyle influencers and mommy vloggers working to present a curated view of a perfect life, and part of that perfect life is naming your kid something 'beautiful and unique'. there's a layer of social navigation to this--you don't want to step on any toes within your community, because it's seen as a grave insult to each other for both you and your friend, acquaintance, neighbor, whatever, to both have a kid with a normal rear end name like emily or catherine. so to avoid slighting your fellow lds woman, you crank the name through the pasta extruder a few good turns and now little emileigh pays the price.

mystes posted:

This seems like it needs an absolutely massive "citation needed" label slapped on it. I highly doubt all of this tiktok influencer stuff is due to "mormon culture"

There's a tumblr post from an ex-mormon that explains the name thing:

quote:

most of Those White People Baby Names are originally Mormon baby names. they’re chosen (or invented) by women in Utah; they tend to filter out to the rest of the world through things like “mommy blogs” and “baby name books” and “parent forums.”

you know how every culture has a “hey, welcome to the world, lil baby!” ritual? the mormon version of that is called a baby blessing. the baby’s father, and a handful of other men in the family, go up in front of the congregation during a Sunday service and say a special prayer. it begins by reciting the baby’s full name and then saying “I give you a name and a blessing.” It’s not something you can avoid doing- if you try, people will think that you’re trying to hide something. baby blessings are mandatory, and everyone in the congregation will watch and judge you.

because of this, your baby’s name gets a good bit more of a spotlight in Mormon culture than it does in secular culture, and that’s saying something.

Mormon women start picking out names for their hypothetical future kids in fourth or fifth grade and snipe at each other for picking “weird” or “bad” ones. it’s something that’s supposed to be in the back of your head long before you have a kid. and because people will judge you if you pick a name that’s “too boring” or “too weird”, it is already an intricate dance of finding something that’s “interesting” enough to pass muster but not so “interesting” your kid won’t survive kindergarten.

and that dance becomes even more intricate when Baby Name Drama gets involved.

see, because you’re supposed to put so much time into your baby’s name, a lot of women get… overinvested, let us say. the perfect name they picked for their baby is THEIR baby’s name and NO ONE ELSE’S. if you so much as dare to BREATHE that you’re naming your baby/pet/favourite laptop the same thing, you have STOLEN their BABY’S NAME.

so here’s the thing… say you really wanted to name your daughter Amy. You love the name, it’s classic, it’s cute, it’s perfect for your little girl-to-be… and then your sister-in-law gets pregnant and LOUDLY ANNOUNCES that she’s naming her baby Amy! and you know for a fact that she’s the type of person to throw a massive petty shitfit over you STEALING her BABY’S NAME. your family will take sides. her family will take sides.

if you want to avoid the drama, and you’re dead-set on naming your daughter-to-be Amy… well, then you name your daughter Aimee, or Aimi, or Aimy. It’s not the same name, it’s pronounced the same but it’s not the exact same name, so you can shut up, sis-in-law.

from what I understand a lot of the Crazy Name Spellings came from this root- “it’s not Kaylee, it’s Kayleigh, I swear I didn’t steal your idea”- and then once it became a trend, people named their kids that to be ~trendy~ just like they did with every other stupid trend.

cat botherer
Jan 6, 2022

I am interested in most phases of data processing.
ITT: people who haven't been around a lot of mormons. The names, blogging or w/e, etc., is all a thing. Also MLMs. Being a suburban SAHM can be boring.

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
There's a reason they call it Mormons Losing Money.

Vim Fuego
Jun 1, 2000



Ultra Carp

DreamingofRoses posted:

AITA for telling my kids that I won’t be lonely for the rest of my life and if they don’t come to my wedding you clearly don’t give a poo poo about my happiness

quote:

worst he has done the whole time was go on a rant about planes

I want the content of this rant

Shanghaied
Oct 12, 2004

BIG PAD

Cerekk posted:

Why the hell would original research be an unacceptable part of an academic work?

Sorry Prof. Roentgen, you can't publish this stuff about "X-rays" because you haven't cited enough other published works.

Do all the original research you want. You can summarise your data, or have them in an appendix, or separately available on your own website or whatever. You just can't put them into your reference list, that's for the published works that you've cited in your text.

There's no requirement to cite x number of published works in actual research, but it's no uncommon to have some kind requirement for various forms of student assignments, because we want the students to read, and to learn to cite properly.

Quackles
Aug 11, 2018

Pixels of Light.


How exactly does a master's thesis etc. not count as a published work?

(Disclaimer: my graduate academic experience is from compsci.)

DemoneeHo
Nov 9, 2017

Come on hee-ho, just give us 300 more macca



Vim Fuego posted:

I want the content of this rant

Same. Planes the vehicles or Planes the movie?

Shanghaied
Oct 12, 2004

BIG PAD

DemoneeHo posted:

Same. Planes the vehicles or Planes the movie?

Worse, it was about Euclidean planes

Halloween Jack
Sep 12, 2003
I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!
She's lying through her teeth. The kids are concerned because her fiancee read the Book of Eibon and got really into non-Euclidian geometry.

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually

Quackles posted:

How exactly does a master's thesis etc. not count as a published work?

(Disclaimer: my graduate academic experience is from compsci.)
Because it's not actually published in a peer-reviewed academic journal, or issued as a book by a university press.

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014

DemoneeHo posted:

Same. Planes the vehicles or Planes the movie?

Extremely transphobic tirade about what a "real female plane" would look like

FMguru posted:

Because it's not actually published in a peer-reviewed academic journal, or issued as a book by a university press.

Why on earth would that matter if the point is to teach students to "read, and learn to cite properly"

Wikipedian rear end grading rules

A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Mar 1, 2024

DreamingofRoses
Jun 27, 2013
Nap Ghost

Vim Fuego posted:

I want the content of this rant

quote:

He worked on planes for his career and is very passionate about the different types. He started ranting about an airline wanting a new part that was discontinued and explaining why they don’t use it anymore and it’s dangers

So more of a work rant than anything, it was fine.

Literally A Person
Jan 1, 1970

Smugworth Wuz Here
That story reminds me of a scene from the production I have running right now. It's a one man show showcasing an autobiographical look at my life through the people I've interacted with. It's got heart, for sure, but it also has a lot of humour. It's the best three hours of entertainment out there!

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Scathach
Apr 4, 2011

You know that thing where you sleep on your arm funny and when you wake up it's all numb? Yeah that's my whole world right now.


mystes posted:

Some random masters thesis (lol) from 2012 mentioning that mormons often give their kids unique names in no way provides evidence that the current trend of people on tiktok giving their kids unique names was influenced by or derives from mormon culture

I feel like you've never lived in an area comprised mainly of LDS people before. You can usually tell them by their name before you meet them.



If you don't live in the Western US I'll give you a pass on this one.

hot cocoa on the couch
Dec 8, 2009

Literally A Person posted:

That story reminds me of a scene from the production I have running right now. It's a one man show showcasing an autobiographical look at my life through the people I've interacted with. It's got heart, for sure, but it also has a lot of humour. It's the best three hours of entertainment out there!

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

lol. LAP, your one man show actually made me laugh

Zorak of Michigan
Jun 10, 2006


A Wizard of Goatse posted:

Extremely transphobic tirade about what a "real female plane" would look like

Why on earth would that matter if the point is to teach students to "read, and learn to cite properly"

Wikipedian rear end grading rules

Shanghaiied's post reminds me of my wife's conversations about her graduate students, so I'm going to guess that his students are learning a lot more than just how to cite properly.

Nebrilos
Oct 9, 2012

Nocheez posted:

This is bait. Everyone knows that southerners don't walk on sidewalks, they drive or ride on Rascal scooters.

This is bait. Everyone knows that there are no sidewalks in the south.

Batterypowered7
Aug 8, 2009

The mist that chills you keeps me warm.

Cythereal posted:

Sounds like alzheimer's or some such. It's not uncommon for family of someone who died to it thinking of them as dead when their mind is truly gone and the body just takes a while to catch up.

It's how my family dealt with my grandfather suffering from it. We mourned him long before he biologically died, and it sounds like this woman did the same for her husband but the kids did not.

My father didn't have alzheimer's, but he had spent many years sick. He had a stroke five and a half years ago, recovered fairly well, and died somewhat suddenly in January 2019. I was incredibly sad but also relieved that he wasn't suffering anymore. I think watching him get worse in one way or another through the years helped prepare me for his eventual passing.

Arsenic Lupin
Apr 12, 2012

This particularly rapid💨 unintelligible 😖patter💁 isn't generally heard🧏‍♂️, and if it is🤔, it doesn't matter💁.


Does anybody remember the name of the site that archives Reddit?

Vim Fuego
Jun 1, 2000



Ultra Carp

A Wizard of Goatse posted:

Extremely transphobic tirade about what a "real female plane" would look like

Yeah, wow, I see why they hate this guy

Clocks
Oct 2, 2007



DemoneeHo posted:

WIBTA if I [21F] pulled a prank on my soon to be Husband [21M] on our wedding day?

For once a wedding prank that doesn't involve shoving cake and cake support rods into a face

I'm glad she was told off doing it. Seems like the fiance had basically one earnest wish for her not to do it on the first dance so even going through the "ha ha, you thought I actually did it, but it was only a bit of it, gotcha!" would have felt like she just needed to get the last word in over his express wishes.

quote:

UPDATE! He came home from lunch and I explained to him what I and his close friends and family were planning on doing, told him about my histation and showed him my post. I was right, he said its the perfect addition to our day and said he doesn't understand why people are so negative about a small not even 10 second clip in of a song he said would be funny. He asked if I would still do it as it would be something fun to tell future relatives or people asking about the wedding. Thanks for those who saw the this would actually be nice side and to those of you who told me I was an rear end in a top hat. If you all hadn't absolutely butchered me in the comments I probably would've just not done nor said anything about it. There will be those who think this is false and okay go off if thats you're cup of tea. I will be sitting at home with my cats awaiting my fiance to come home from work since today I'm off sick.
ok, sure thing lady :allears:

Clocks fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Mar 1, 2024

Vim Fuego
Jun 1, 2000



Ultra Carp

Arsenic Lupin posted:

Does anybody remember the name of the site that archives Reddit?

I think its https://rareddit.com/

mystes
May 31, 2006

I think some of the older ones used the reddit api which previously allowed you to access delete posts, which is no longer possible, and no longer exist, like removeddit

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually

Clocks posted:

I'm glad she was told off doing it. Seems like the fiance had basically one earnest wish for her not to do it on the first dance so even going through the "ha ha, you thought I actually did it, but it was only a bit of it, gotcha!" would have felt like she just needed to get the last word in over his express wishes.
I've seen it said that "the failure mode of 'clever' is 'rear end in a top hat'", and you really shouldn't run even a one percent risk of your 'clever' idea turning what should be a special event that you and loved one should remember joyfully for the rest of your lives into something that will have you remembered as being an rear end in a top hat.

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

You mess with the crabbo...



Captain Hygiene posted:

You be the judge: should my girlfriend stop upgrading our coffee-making equipment?



Not so strong a consensus on The Stallion, I guess it was a tougher question compared to Burps Mcgee or the Toothbrush Gang.

This week: You be the judge: should my girlfriend stop snipping plants in the park?

The prosecution: Lars posted:

Lily and I love going to gardens and parks, but she takes cuttings off any plant she fancies. When we’re out on a walk, I feel awkward when she leans over to take a clipping. If I saw someone else doing it, I would be quite shocked. I don’t want to be the kind of person who cuts things off plants in the park. I respect rules and I like to follow them. The only way to live all together in society is to follow the rules, but Lily is the opposite and makes up her own.

When we were walking through a local park recently, we got into an argument. I don’t even think you should be able to touch plants. There are signs like “Don’t sit on the grass” for a reason. Lily really wanted to take a clipping of rosemary from a bush and I told her not to. I said: “I’m sorry, but I don’t think we should cut any part of a public plant.” For me, it’s the principle. She said I was over the top: “It’s lovely to rebirth plants.” And she called me “mentally inflexible”.

In our flat, we keep a few small plants in glasses from cuttings that Lily has taken. But I don’t think the gardener in our local park would love this practice. Lily is altering the state of a natural organism.

We are having a baby in a month and have to decide how we are going to raise it. Is it appropriate for people to go around cutting public plants? I think not. I want to be respectful of our neighbourhood and its gardens. People’s judgments really matter to me.

I want to be regarded as a good citizen and want our kids to be the same. One time I saw Lily snap a branch, which shocked me. You really have to put a lot of effort into snapping off a branch; that seemed a bit extreme to me.

I don’t agree with Lily’s behaviour, but if she has to take cuttings, she should only take them from plants that are healthy, and not snap twigs off. When it comes to our children, I hope they will one day be old enough to understand how to look after the environment and at least take cuttings in a sustainable way.

The defence: Lily posted:

I love taking small twigs or cuttings home and seeing how they grow in our flat. But Lars has a problem with the way I do it. He is worried about us being seen. I’ll take a leaf, which only involves a quick pluck, but when I snapped a branch from a plant in a park recently, he was horrified.

He said it was because the park had just been freshly pruned and that I’d ruined it, but I don’t think the park looked any different. I also don’t think a gardener or botanist would begrudge me taking a small clipping – I’m confident they would support me, in fact. Lars and I had a big argument about it, which ruined our nice walk.

When it comes to my cuttings, Lars says I’m only thinking about my own little life, whereas he’s looking at the bigger picture – but his rules and principles are way too strict. He says: “How would society function if everyone did this?”

He thinks public parks would be destroyed if everyone took clippings whenever they wanted. But not everyone loves plants like me, so that argument doesn’t stand. At some point, a public plant is going to be pruned anyway, so why not take a piece of it as long as you’re not harming the plant? I only take clippings if a plant is healthy and bushy. I’m very discreet and don’t take one when anyone is looking or when it might leave a visible hole in the plant.

I’ve only taken clippings on a few occasions. The first time was when I was on holiday with Lars. There’s something so appealing about taking a bit of a plant with you and seeing how it grows in your care. Every time you look at the plant at home you remember that trip. It’s romantic. The dispute has started since I’ve become pregnant, and I don’t understand why. I’m not expecting our baby to start cutting plants right after it leaves the womb.

Obviously, I’ll teach our kids to be sensible, and educate them about sustainability. And I’m going to continue to take cuttings in secret when I go for a walk by myself.

I thought it was kinda funny because we had a similar question back around Christmas, about clipping fir trees to make wreaths. It didn't get much discussion, but I'm against them. One leaf from a tree isn't really anything, but once you get bigger than that, just knock it off. It's property that somebody else puts work into, and the "teehee, nobody will mind, actually I'm doing a good thing" attitude runs me the wrong way. :arghfist:

titty_baby_
Nov 11, 2015

Reminds me of my roommate ripping leaves off of the often-poached dudleya growing on cliffs around here, only to discover that unlike their relatives they do not propagate from leaves

Clocks
Oct 2, 2007



I'm on the side of "if everyone did it, there wouldn't be a park left" and I don't think the counter-argument of "well, everyone isn't doing it!" is much of a good one (yeah, because people realize we live in a society together, and that involves putting the community above the self sometimes). Also, if she's sure it's not such a big deal, why is she doing all this snipping discreetly? Oh, that's right, because you shouldn't be snipping random flowers and poo poo that other people could be enjoying.

Shanghaied
Oct 12, 2004

BIG PAD

Quackles posted:

How exactly does a master's thesis etc. not count as a published work?

(Disclaimer: my graduate academic experience is from compsci.)

They're published work. But the difference comes down to the degree in which the work has been evaluated by someone who is an expert in the field.

You'll be lucky if the grader for you bachelor's thesis spends more than maybe two-three hours on your text, double that for a master's thesis. We're simply not given that many hours for grading (I get 20 hours total for supervising one thesis and grading another one, ymmv). Plus, usually with theses you find online, you really have no idea what grades they've received. Maybe it was A and the author is currently in grad school, or maybe it was barely an E even after an extension and begging and pleading from the student. In my experience, you also don't tend to find truly good original research in bachelor or master's theses. Nothing against the students, but it's hard for anyone to produce good research given the time limits for student theses (10 weeks for bachelor, 20 weeks for master).

With doctoral thesis there are also weird academic traditions and politics that you need to take into consideration. In a lot countries the defence is not public, so you have weird poo poo like Naomi Wolf's thesis getting a pass even though it contained so many basic and quite fundamental errors. In some countries, like mine, you basically cannot fail if your doctoral thesis has been approved by your supervisors and your home institution, the worst you can get is a 2-1 pass, which is for all intents and purposes a fail (like you can tell people you have a PhD, but don't expect to find academic work). And then you've poo poo like "Look, I don't want to be the one to tell you this, but you don't fail [tenured professor at LSE] and [tenured professor at LSE]'s student, that's just not done," a thing that was once said to me, verbatim (well, okay, it was in another language, but you get the point). The good stuff in doctoral theses usually get published as articles or books anyway, just a few years later.

You want your students to read good, current research in the field, without having to navigate all of the above, so you just say, works published in reputable journals and books published with reputable academic publishers only, when in doubt shoot me an email.

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014

idk why she's sneaking sticks from the park when there's a perfectly serviceable one up mr. "society is built on rules, are we going to raise our baby to be a leaf thief"s rear end

Shanghaied
Oct 12, 2004

BIG PAD

Nebrilos posted:

This is bait. Everyone knows that there are no sidewalks in the south.

lmao who was that bipolar goon who was gonna walk from California to Florida pushing a cart to raise awareness for bipolar disorder, and Texas goons were telling him "there're no sidewalks in Texas, you're gonna die" lol?

SpaceViking
Sep 2, 2011

Who put the stars in the sky? Coyote will say he did it himself, and it is not a lie.

Clocks posted:

I'm on the side of "if everyone did it, there wouldn't be a park left" and I don't think the counter-argument of "well, everyone isn't doing it!" is much of a good one (yeah, because people realize we live in a society together, and that involves putting the community above the self sometimes). Also, if she's sure it's not such a big deal, why is she doing all this snipping discreetly? Oh, that's right, because you shouldn't be snipping random flowers and poo poo that other people could be enjoying.

My favorite part is when she said she's pretty sure the gardener of the park would support her. If you're so sure, why don't you just ask?

titty_baby_
Nov 11, 2015

I harvested my Christmas tree from public land and dumped it in a gully by my house, if that gives any indication of my standing

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A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014

maybe things are different in england or wherever the parks actually have gardeners and a limited supply of greenery and aren't just an undeveloped stretch of woods for people to dump bodies in but, lmao

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