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Got to see this on Wednesday. Insanely good stuff. Chalamet in a stillsuit kind of took me out of it sometimes, I don't know why. It just looked like he was wearing old ratty pajamas. I read Messiah a billion years ago so now I have to reread it.
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Mar 1, 2024 13:43
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I don't know which character is missing but whoever it is is the new Tom Bombadil
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Mar 1, 2024 14:43
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kiimo posted:I don't know which character is missing but whoever it is is the new Tom Bombadil Count Fenring being Tom Bombadil makes too much sense Jewmanji posted:Abomination! A Messiah movie would have a ton of cool poo poo. Villeneuve’s take on Scytale and Edric will be awesome. The stoneburner is awesome. Hayt would be awesome. One thing I really like about Dune is that for all the epic sweeping narratives, there's a lot of little personal moments that show individual people, major or minor characters, having their own observations, inner and outer dialogues about their experiences, showing curiosity and interest in the universe they live in. Way too many sci-fi settings have characters just blithely accept everything that's 'normal' to them unless exposition is needed. Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Mar 1, 2024 |
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Mar 1, 2024 14:49
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Uhm-m-m-m, hey dol! merry mm-m-m dol! ring a hm-mm-mm dong mm-m-m dillo!
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Mar 1, 2024 14:52
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FBS posted:Uhm-m-m-m, hey dol! merry mm-m-m dol! ring a hm-mm-mm dong mm-m-m dillo! I see the truth of it
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Mar 1, 2024 15:14
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Simply put: Are the Fremen actually oppressed. I have read the first book 3 times along with seeing the Lynch movie (which I loving love, @ me I don't care) when I was a kid along with the scifi TV show. My take had been up until my most recent read that the Fremen are oppressed as a whole but now I am not sure. To give further context this was also the first time I read the 2 appendixes and there was the decolonise your thinking movement at the time. I had simply seen the Fremen as 1 dimensional desert people. But on that read I disagreed with my earlier assumptions. The Fremen were the ones who controlled the most spice production, had manufacturing capabilities equal to anything else in the universe, and total control of the deep deserts, their culture as a whole went generally unmolested. They were living their best lives until Keyes and Paul came along. But what is pulling at me is that in the villages and towns on the periphery they were brutalised. Why they would willingly let that happen? I can't remember what their pre-Keyes plan was but maybe they thought it was a sacrifice that had to be made to keep an eye on the off-worlders or something. Another element to this is that they aren't natives, no human is on any of the planets that are settled so can we really call this colonisation? If I need to spoiler this please let me know.
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Mar 1, 2024 15:41
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Just off the top of my head the Fremen aren't literally natives but they moved there eons ago and afaik were the first human settlers, so they're not "natives" in the sense that no one is except Ethiopians or whatever
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Mar 1, 2024 16:04
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notaspy posted:
Freman were never unified. Sietches are all independent from each other and have their own concerns and goals. There was trade and diplomatic contact between them, but it was all on an ad hoc basis, without any formalized structure. This is intentional, because their culture valued freedom so much no sietch would voluntarily submit part of it's independence to a larger political structure and the hostility of the planet and foreign forces made any kind of unification by force impossible. Paul changes this by assuming the role of long promised messiah, and uniting them under the banner of Jihad.
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Mar 1, 2024 16:17
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StashAugustine posted:Just off the top of my head the Fremen aren't literally natives but they moved there eons ago and afaik were the first human settlers, so they're not "natives" in the sense that no one is except Ethiopians or whatever Iirc they are a diasporic people who were chased off a bunch of different planets and then had to find a way to survive on Dune
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Mar 1, 2024 17:00
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notaspy posted:Another element to this is that they aren't natives, no human is on any of the planets that are settled so can we really call this colonisation? Native Americans didn't evolve in North America, they arrived (roughly) 15-20,000 years ago - but I'd still call what happens to them colonization.
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Mar 1, 2024 18:14
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I dont know posted:Freman were never unified. Sietches are all independent from each other and have their own concerns and goals. There was trade and diplomatic contact between them, but it was all on an ad hoc basis, without any formalized structure. This is intentional, because their culture valued freedom so much no sietch would voluntarily submit part of it's independence to a larger political structure and the hostility of the planet and foreign forces made any kind of unification by force impossible. Paul changes this by assuming the role of long promised messiah, and uniting them under the banner of Jihad. Just one correction, it's actually Liet/Kynes that first starts uniting them. The shared goal of the Kynes Ecological Plan is the foundation Paul uses to keep the sietches united under his banner.
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Mar 1, 2024 18:17
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Anonymous Zebra posted:Just one correction, it's actually Liet/Kynes that first starts uniting them. The shared goal of the Kynes Ecological Plan is the foundation Paul uses to keep the sietches united under his banner. Pardot Kynes (Liet's father) does start the Ecology plan and that is important to what Paul eventually does, but even when all the Sietches are involved in it it's a shared goal. There is not larger organization to the plan, each Sietch independently does their part, building reservoirs and planting sand retaining plants. If you are counting the ecology plan, then arguably the Bene Gesserit Missionaria Protectiva is the biggest thing that unites the Fremen since they are the ones that created and seeded the Messiah legend in the first place.
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Mar 1, 2024 18:25
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notaspy posted:But on that read I disagreed with my earlier assumptions. The Fremen were the ones who controlled the most spice production, had manufacturing capabilities equal to anything else in the universe, and total control of the deep deserts, their culture as a whole went generally unmolested. They were living their best lives until Keyes and Paul came along. They also certainly don't have "manufacturing capabilities equal to anything else in the universe." They're not cavemen and their sietches have machine shops, but stillsuits are probably the most complex machines they can produce. Like, a thumper's not very complicated. More importantly, where are they getting raw materials? It's not like they can dig mines to get iron and silicon and whatnot. They're also not in control of the deserts, they're just the only people who can live there. The sandworms, and the desert itself, stops other factions from coming in and settling it. It's not like they can do anything about thopters flying overhead. Their culture is also not "generally unmolested." The Harkonnen regard them as vermin and kill them for sport. The Guild extracts hefty bribes to refrain from spying on them and passing the info along to their enemies. It's safe to assume that they pay exorbitant prices for raw materials and anything they can't make themselves, purchased through city markets or from smugglers. They'd be more self-sufficient if they had large settlements, but all the large settlements are home to foreign occupiers. And as much as they pride themselves on their racial superiority, they're skinny and hungry and very very thirsty and their childhood mortality rate must be very high. Even the Fremen way out in the desert, who have little direct contact with outsiders, wake up every day knowing that they're not living their best lives because they're living under foreign occupation, even if the closest occupier is a thousand klicks away. There are a lot of reasons that the desert Fremen can't protect the town-dwelling Fremen. They're the best commandos in the universe but commandos have limited ability to assault fixed positions with machineguns and whatnot. It's also possible that the desert Fremen just don't think much of city Fremen like Mapes, and aren't willing to stick their necks out. Going into the towns and cities to fight with Harkonnen troops also invites reprisals. Besides keeping Kynes' terraforming project a secret, the Harkonnen vastly underestimate their population and think they're successfully culling the herd when they kill a few hundred people. Why escalate the war? If the Emperor was really intent on pacifying Arrakis, he could bring a lot of ships to the planet and start dropping bombs on every outcropping of bedrock around Arrakeen. Regarding the whole decolonize-your-mind thing, don't forget that Herbert was a deeply unserious right-wing nutbar who was just a somewhat different flavor of right-wing nutbar from mainstream Republicans of his day. I dont know posted:Freman were never unified. Sietches are all independent from each other and have their own concerns and goals. There was trade and diplomatic contact between them, but it was all on an ad hoc basis, without any formalized structure. This is intentional, because their culture valued freedom so much no sietch would voluntarily submit part of it's independence to a larger political structure and the hostility of the planet and foreign forces made any kind of unification by force impossible. Paul changes this by assuming the role of long promised messiah, and uniting them under the banner of Jihad. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Mar 1, 2024 |
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Mar 1, 2024 18:25
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notaspy posted:Simply put: Are the Fremen actually oppressed. Are they more oppressed than others? Certainly more than people who live on Caladan, but the same can't be said for people who live on either Geidi Prime (because there's no doubt that Baron Harkonnen oppresses all his subjects) or Selusa Secundus (where the Emperor gets his Sardukar, which is what Leto Atreides/Hawat figures out, and what causes him to try to achieve ally-ship with Fremen - and it's possible that the Emperor figures this out; it's probably why, along with Leto Atreides' popularity in the Landsraad, the Atreides are sent to Arrakis to be killed by the Harkonnen). Part of the point of the Golden Path is the nigh-abusive tactic that some parents employ where they'll force a kid to do something the kid enjoys, until the kid doesn't enjoy it any more: except with Leto II, it's enforced tranquility pent up and released at the right moment as The Scattering, instead of the "race conciousness" that Paul fears will end in Jihad - which is why it's ironic that he's the one to be the cause of one after his first son is killed like his dad was (by Harkonnen treachery). StashAugustine posted:Just off the top of my head the Fremen aren't literally natives but they moved there eons ago and afaik were the first human settlers, so they're not "natives" in the sense that no one is except Ethiopians or whatever BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Mar 1, 2024 |
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Mar 1, 2024 18:28
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Roughly 90 minutes to go before my Kull is once more Wahaded. Bi Lal Kaifa.
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Mar 1, 2024 19:48
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yay it's here
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Mar 1, 2024 20:17
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Mozi posted:yay it's here gimme!!
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Mar 1, 2024 20:19
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i wish it was streaming on max like the first one, that was nice. i don't think i can do endless bong rips in my local theater
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Mar 1, 2024 20:34
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this one's deffo for the imax, especially for making the Voice scary as gently caress
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Mar 1, 2024 20:36
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https://twitter.com/iconnnorpop/status/1763405804634353712
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Mar 1, 2024 21:05
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Imax 70mm isn't a joke motherfuckre
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Mar 1, 2024 21:15
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Is regal RPX a gimmick?
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Mar 1, 2024 21:33
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Ithle01 posted:Saw it last night. Thought it was good, visually stunning. Sound system felt like being hit by a Lynch Dune weirding module. I hate the way that Denis has come out so hard against directors cuts, these movies need to be extended editioned.
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Mar 1, 2024 22:14
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khwarezm posted:I hate the way that Denis has come out so hard against directors cuts, these movies need to be extended editioned. eh, I'd rather he made it his way. I also would rather it was an hour longer for both movies.
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Mar 1, 2024 22:17
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Ithle01 posted:eh, I'd rather he made it his way. I also would rather it was an hour longer for both movies. Its just that we know there's significant cut scenes that hew close to the book, like the banquet scene, it would be nice to see a recut as close to the book as possible.
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Mar 1, 2024 22:19
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Wait, it's Thufir Hawat who is cut? What the gently caress??
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Mar 1, 2024 22:20
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ImpAtom posted:Wait, it's Thufir Hawat who is cut? What the gently caress?? I suppose its not that surprising when they removed the plot to frame Jessica from the first movie, though I have to ask, does Gurney still think she's a traitor?
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Mar 1, 2024 22:24
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dew worm posted:Is regal RPX a gimmick? I'm also wondering this
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Mar 1, 2024 22:30
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ImpAtom posted:Wait, it's Thufir Hawat who is cut? What the gently caress?? I'm assuming you saw the movie so I'll put this in spoilers for those who did not Thufir , Leto II (the first one, not the giant dickless worm), Count Fenring, are the three off the top of my head. Oh, just remembered Jamis/Paul's wife, what's her name. Also, there's no drug orgy. Which is like, okay sure, but also what the gently caress. edit: and the thing that my drunk friend was ranting about missing was his favorite line from the book after the Sardaukar have just encountered Fremen while attacking their sietch to take hostages. quote:"Only a handful of our men got away." the Emperor said "Got away! you hear that?" Ithle01 fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Mar 1, 2024 |
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Mar 1, 2024 22:32
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sci-fi authors and ridiculous horniness: like romance authors and ridiculous horniness. or lit authors and ridiculous horniness. or fantasy authors and ridiculous horniness. or ...
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Mar 1, 2024 22:35
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bob dobbs is dead posted:sci-fi authors and ridiculous horniness: like romance authors and ridiculous horniness. or lit authors and ridiculous horniness. or fantasy authors and ridiculous horniness. or ... The older the author gets, the more blatant and disgusting their horniness gets.
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Mar 1, 2024 22:39
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we live in a different age, where porn is basically easy-to-get and free, so drastically reduced levels of horniness are required in non-porn things, that's what's up with the age thing
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Mar 1, 2024 22:45
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I would have traded a tiny amount of Count Fenring for one of the Rabban scenes if only to make the Emperor’s retinue more varied than a few pussy magicians. But I’m probably wrong so w/e.
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Mar 1, 2024 23:08
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ONLY IN THEATERS
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Mar 1, 2024 23:15
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kalel posted:I'm also wondering this I'm guessing film nerds will say anything other then 70mm imax is a gimmick
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Mar 1, 2024 23:27
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I saw dune part 1 in 4dx (regal's smell-o-vision) and I will say that it was an incredibly fun gimmick. the seats swaying with the ornithopters during the flight to arrakeen scene was comfy as gently caress
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Mar 2, 2024 00:15
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notaspy posted:Simply put: Are the Fremen actually oppressed. Cessna posted:Native Americans didn't evolve in North America, they arrived (roughly) 15-20,000 years ago - but I'd still call what happens to them colonization. Maori arrived in NZ ~700 years ago, and same.
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Mar 2, 2024 00:39
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I saw Dune 2, it was sick as hell. sum thoughts: I really liked how it played around with sense of scope and scale. one minute, youd have a really claustrophic character interaction, and then theyd be thrust into a dizzying wide open space. Rabban meeting Paul in the sandstorm is a good example of what Im talking about. I liked how the art design on the tech was all over the place depending on its origin. it felt like a Star Wars Prequel except with much higher production quality, and I mean that in the best possible way. I was a fan in particular of the one Harkonnen ornithopter pilot whose piloting helmet was 1970's scifi props glued to his face and eyes. also loved that the Harkonnen planet had a black hole sun or whatever, so the planet was filmed in black and white, meaning you could have a bit more violence in the PG13 movie. thought that was clever. two complaints: I thought the movies do a poor job of explaining just how extremely important the worms are to the Fremen? maybe theyre saving that for 3. also tonally, Im really not sure why both movies are so direly serious for a big adapation of the most Young Adultest of Young Adult novels. I cant imagine The Neverending Story or Twilight or whatever being treated with such gravitas. oh well!
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Mar 2, 2024 01:06
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dune is serious business ok? plans within plans, palace intrigue, heady dissertations on the nature of power please disregard the murder tigers
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Mar 2, 2024 01:26
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Dune is laugh-at, not laugh-with. The jokes are mostly unfunny, but the world and characters are innately hilarious
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Mar 2, 2024 01:42
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