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AndrewP posted:I picked White Mage because I don't mind being a healer and I thought it'd give me shorter dungeon queues. So far the fights are Stone II > Stone II > Stone II > Stone II >>... and occasionally topping off my tank's health if I'm in a dungeon. You're definitely right that it does give you shorter queues, but playing healer out in the world is just very boring and not something I'd recommend. I'd suggest picking up another L1 class for questing stuff. It'll take maybe 3 hours to get it to 30. Class quest + hunting log + random murder or maybe levequests takes you to L15 in less than an hour, then you do daily duty roulettes and dungeons to 30. Can either do class quests, hunt log and FATEs while waiting any queues, or do the dungeon runs with (generally slower) npcs. Of the starter jobs I'd recommend checking out Arcanist, Rogue, Pugilist or Archer for world stuff. You can keep Conjurer for dungeons if you like it in those. You get 2x XP for any job below your highest. I think the main quest and occasional dungeon gives enough XP that keeping 2 or 3 jobs current is pretty trivial and I've done just that every expansion, but thread opinion on the subject is split. If you want to hedge then Arcanist get both a dps job and a healing job for weird legacy reasons.
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Mar 2, 2024 17:34
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Another thing to note: healer DPS rotations will not get much more complicated than what you have now. WHM has a neat DPS refund button, but that's not until ShB. Instead you'll mostly be getting a lot of healing oGCDs that you'll be using over your normal heals.
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Mar 2, 2024 17:37
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The MSQ is basically a visual novel since even by bare minimum genre standards a lot of MSQ quests are "go to a place and talk", "click on 3 things", "kill 3 monsters that you can AFK fight safely." Part of it is power creep as expansions go along but also the MSQ design outside of single player duties, trials/dungeons and story punch is pretty anemic. There's a few neat things like Fates letting you fight mini bosses, real bosses, crowds of stuff and being spontaneous quest lines building up to more danger or even an area raid boss but they're entirely optional for leveling, the occasional reward like a cosmetic or a card, or in ShB/EW and probably DT as a time-padding vendor unlock activity. Healers don't even get a 1-2-3 combo, they usually get a 1 and a DoT to refresh, gradually unlocking the awesome power of a 2. Dragoon is about as fine as any other class from 1-50 except they don't get a real AoE rotation until 60-70+ and like Ninja don't even get the first AoE move for too long. A few classes are like this, Monk and Warrior get their aoe combo out or order, Paladin can't dash until 70+, Dancers can't partner in pre-60 content, etc. Dragoon also feels remarkably better and punchier after the class quest at 70.
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Mar 2, 2024 18:24
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AndrewP posted:I picked White Mage because I don't mind being a healer and I thought it'd give me shorter dungeon queues. So far the fights are Stone II > Stone II > Stone II > Stone II >>... and occasionally topping off my tank's health if I'm in a dungeon. As another WHM main the early game dungeons won't be much more complicated than this but it doesn't take too long before your healing kit starts to diversify. Your DPS won't evolve much beyond "keep aero up, spam stone" but when you get to content that requires a lot of proactive and reactive healing (sooner than you might think!) you'll be glad for the simplicity. During an intense fight even making sure Aero is up can be a lot for me to handle
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Mar 2, 2024 18:34
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Roluth posted:Another thing to note: healer DPS rotations will not get much more complicated than what you have now. WHM has a neat DPS refund button, but that's not until ShB. Instead you'll mostly be getting a lot of healing oGCDs that you'll be using over your normal heals. Adding on to this, play the healer that you enjoy the kit of the most because uhhh yeah in terms of DPS they're all kinda the same but differently flavored (main attack, dot, 1 or maybe 2 more damaging abilities) e: forgot they all get an aoe too Reoxygenation fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Mar 2, 2024 |
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Mar 2, 2024 18:37
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On the bright side I agree that Healers are pretty snappy and focused once the content ramps up. Layering and timing cooldowns on Sage feels divine. And as I always harp on about at level 30 in any job(when you get the upgrade stone) you can go PvP and experience a fully realized mini kit that excellent captures class flavor. All 4 healers have great flavor and different functionality in pvp and you get nice leveling experience every day from the Frontline roulette. All you need to know to start is to follow your group, hotkey your universal actions(Guard, Purify, Recuperate, Special PvP Sprint, Elixir) and practice observation/hitting M and avoiding enemy groups overrunning or flanking you. It's a nice low-commitment battleground mode with a ton of rewards, ideally the chaos clicks after about 20 rounds.
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Mar 2, 2024 18:42
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MSQ gives more than enough XP to keep two jobs leveled now. In fact, it gives so much that a single-job character ends up comically overleveled very quickly. If you want something else for fast queues, try a tank. Both Marauder (which becomes Warrior) and Gladiator (which becomes Paladin) have simple base kits that slowly expand in complexity as you go as you get more and more ways to cheat death so you can wall-to-wall with more and more impunity, but the core of it will always be "turn on stance, spam your AoE combo while cycling through your damage mitigation cooldowns" girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Mar 2, 2024 |
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Mar 2, 2024 19:02
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Even after they got trimmed down, an awful lot of ARR quests are structured like NPC A sends you to NPC B who refuses to talk to you, so you go to NPC C who has you kill three sheep and then gives you a letter to take back to B. It's annoying. Later expansions have talking and fetch quests, but a lot less of that kind of back-and-forth padding.
FuturePastNow fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Mar 2, 2024 |
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Mar 2, 2024 19:10
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Part of the reason a lot of jobs feel anemic in early levels has to do with buttons being removed by expansions to ensure there’s not too much to do. Dragoon always had some issues like a period where your main combo was actually a dps loss and you just wanted to sit behind an enemy spamming impulse drive. Effectively they have tried to not really add any extra buttons to jobs post-HW as a whole by trimming out earlier actions. Dragoons rotation at 50 used to be heavy thrust from flank to get a +10% damage buff, impulse drive from the rear, disembowel to put a piercing debuff on the enemy, chaos thrust from rear, phlebotomize (a dot) then your true thrust, vorpal thrust, full thrust and repeat starting back with heavy thrust. In HW they added a few buttons (wheeling thrust and fang & claw that would randomly proc after finishing a combo and also had positional requirements along with a new oGCD aoe attack gierskogul). You had to hit from the flank to get the heavy thrust buff so some fights you’d have to hit that twice at the start if you were out of position. HT also comboed into ring of thorns which was a circular aoe. For AOE you’d HT -> RoT -> doom spike spam until your HT buff was going to fall off and repeat. Heavy thrust, vorpal thrust, ring of thorns, and phlebotomize have all been removed, so dragoon is flat missing four buttons they used to have by the time you hit 50. It makes them feel a little simple for lower level stuff, but by the time you hit 60 you’re almost set on buttons
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Mar 2, 2024 21:06
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These days most jobs get their "spine" somewhere between mid-50s and 70, though that depends on how you define it. I go for "you can see the shape of the job and how it plays, even if you don't have every button and mechanic." So for example once Bard gets their third song at 52 I consider their spine complete because "keep a song rolling at all times, hit other stuff while they're going" is the structure of the job even if you're getting additional buttons and better proc rates later. Meanwhile Dragoon's full combo chain doesn't fill out until level 64, and without it the timing of a lot of stuff can be weird. And then there's Black Mage, which technically has most of their buttons and main mechanics pretty early, but keeps getting abilities that completely change how those buttons relate to each other so it can be really difficult to get a feel for. "I need to worry about this timer" --> "this button I'm spamming refreshes the timer so it's a non-issue" --> "I got a spam button to replace the old one that doesn't refresh the timer so I need to worry about it again" sorts of things. Some people have argued that no job feels complete until you're fully integrating with every mechanic that you need to worry about at 90, but I'm just talking about enough to get a sense of the job.
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Mar 2, 2024 21:49
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I find BLM to be online at 60 with Fire and Blizzard 4. Cast as many Fire 4s as you can, if you ever let your spellcasting buff fall off all the NPCs you like will teleport in behind you to laugh at you. Just like the sorcerers of eld.
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Mar 2, 2024 22:00
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I agree that most jobs feel complete by around level 60 with a few that take til 70. Post 70, most things you get either upgrade earlier abilities or add a slight complement. Black mage is always insane, though, because Yoshi-P plays black mage and is an insanely skilled gamer.
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Mar 2, 2024 22:14
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in endwalker, the levels-to-complete-package time definitely hits somewhere before 90 for almost everyone. most endwalker additions were little extra things to the existing loop that got established in stormblood and firmed up in shadowbringers, excepting the jobs that got top-to-bottom overhauls at some point in there--monk, bard, and tanks in shadowbringers, summoner in endwalker, machinist in both stormblood and shadowbringers. in general the 65-70 range is definitely when it all comes together for everyone, but the difficult part about that is that everything before 60-70 is locked behind job quests and therefore story progression, so you don't really get the sense of it until you're 2/3 of the way through the free trial.
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Mar 2, 2024 22:15
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Doomykins posted:I find BLM to be online at 60 with Fire and Blizzard 4. Cast as many Fire 4s as you can, if you ever let your spellcasting buff fall off all the NPCs you like will teleport in behind you to laugh at you. Just like the sorcerers of eld. I'm still leveling it but from what I've seen so far (~70) I think I agree. It's just been the weirdest job I've leveled where I get a new spell and I don't just figure out where to fit it in, everything else shifts as well. The whole job is that push and pull between fire and ice, and new abilities can really shove on that or feel nearly useless before their counterpart comes into play.
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Mar 2, 2024 22:16
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They definitely need to do an overhaul of the low-level experience. At the very least, all classes should be walking into Sastasha with their basic 1-2-3, an AoE, and an oGCD of some sort (an oGCD heal for healers like how Astro starts with Essential Dignity) and have at least some kind of gimmick happening by level 50. Looking at you Paladin, which doesn't get its main gimmick (powerful ranged attack once every 1-2-3 combo) until loving Stormblood so you're stuck doing your 1-2-3 over and over for 64 levels, and its secondary gimmick (Atonement) doesn't happen until Shadowbringers. It's ridiculous.
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Mar 2, 2024 22:22
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I think BLM would be the least boring class to main at first, but their optimal rotations change often as you're leveling. Conjurer/WHM may be the most boring class to play through ARR MSQ. I also learned this the hard way, as a person who has typically mained as a healer in past MMOs
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Mar 2, 2024 22:23
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GilliamYaeger posted:They definitely need to do an overhaul of the low-level experience. At the very least, all classes should be walking into Sastasha with their basic 1-2-3, an AoE, and an oGCD of some sort (an oGCD heal for healers like how Astro starts with Essential Dignity) and have at least some kind of gimmick happening by level 50. i wonder what's held them back from this so far. it's only with the monk and summoner changes that the previous hard limit of "no ability from a later expansion can be moved into an earlier one" was finally broken, so what's the new deal?
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Mar 2, 2024 22:27
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biceps crimes posted:I think BLM would be the least boring class to main at first, but their optimal rotations change often as you're leveling. Conjurer/WHM may be the most boring class to play through ARR MSQ. I also learned this the hard way, as a person who has typically mained as a healer in past MMOs
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Mar 2, 2024 22:28
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I was suggesting primarily for ARR. Conditions for most of the jobs are improved by HW, and by SHB any of them are fine
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Mar 2, 2024 22:29
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GilliamYaeger posted:They definitely need to do an overhaul of the low-level experience. At the very least, all classes should be walking into Sastasha with their basic 1-2-3, an AoE, and an oGCD of some sort (an oGCD heal for healers like how Astro starts with Essential Dignity) and have at least some kind of gimmick happening by level 50. I mean, all PLD had in ARR was their 1,2,3 with a procced oGCD on blocks, an oGCD aoe with a small dot, and an oGCD that silenced as a part of their standard rotation. E: and a dot and oGCD cross classed from warrior.  fracture and mercy stroke.
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Mar 2, 2024 22:32
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Hey what’s the deal with like individual, named monsters which are level 50? I tried fighting one at 50, and got wrecked. Even at lvl 61, I can barely make a dent in them. Didn’t recall ever seeing them back in the day.
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Mar 2, 2024 22:52
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HaB posted:Hey what’s the deal with like individual, named monsters which are level 50? The ones with the red aggro marker? Those are A-rank hunt marks, which spawn in the overworld every few hours and are intended as group fights. Avoid them if you're alone, or shout and someone'll probably show up to take them down.
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Mar 2, 2024 22:55
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GilliamYaeger posted:I'd argue that BLM is quite possibly the worst class you could possibly use to do the MSQ with. So many solo fights want you to be mobile, and BLM needing to be stuck in one place for so long runs counter to that design ethos. The specific example I'm thinking of is that 86-87 solo fight in Endwalker - I've seen people do that one on BLM and it just looks like the most miserable slog imaginable. Eh, IIRC it only took me one retry. Hi it’s me, the idiot who started the game as Thaumaturge and still mains Black Mage.
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Mar 2, 2024 22:59
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HaB posted:Hey what’s the deal with like individual, named monsters which are level 50? B ranks are targets you pick up from a hunt board and hunt down on your own. You only get rewards for killing these if you've got a bounty poster for them from a hunt board, and immediately respawn. A ranks are targets you get together with a group (a hunt train) for and just scour an entire expansion for. There's two of these per zone. They're way stronger than B-ranks and give much larger rewards, without needing to pick up bounty posters beforehand. They take a while to respawn, which is why people get together and just do them all in one go whenever they're all back up. It's considered impolite to kill these on your own. Getting into a hunt train is a bit tricky since you'll need to be either in the novice network or a dedicated hunt linkshell to get notified about when they're happening, but checking the party finder at the top of each hour will result in you finding hunt train parties eventually (at which point you can ask around for an invite to a linkshell). S ranks require special conditions to spawn (ie killing 100 of a certain mob, moving over its spawn zone with a certain minion out, catching a certain fish etc etc), can only spawn once every few days, and their spawning typically results in parties going up on Party Finder and a swarm of players assembling in front of it before they all descend upon the poor thing and tear it to shreds for loot. SS ranks can rarely spawn in later expansions upon the death of an S rank. They spawn four minions across the zone, which when killed spawns a real big nasty. If you want to know more, here's a website dedicated to tracking and reporting hunt targets: https://faloop.app/ GilliamYaeger fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Mar 2, 2024 |
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Mar 2, 2024 23:01
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There are a couple of level 50 A-ranks that spawn right on top of ARR quest locations. One in particular has a pretty high kill count.
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Mar 2, 2024 23:25
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FuturePastNow posted:There are a couple of level 50 A-ranks that spawn right on top of ARR quest locations. One in particular has a pretty high kill count. I thiunk I once ran into a Zu or otherwise massive bird in one of the kobold tunnels and had to call for help to get to my quest destination.
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Mar 2, 2024 23:35
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Something to keep in mind for leveling characters is that at level 50 you get an instant level 50 melee DPS and ranged magic DPS regardless of whether you've finished the MSQ (though you need to do the class unlocks as with all new classes). Once you've finished the MSQ and are level 50 you can also grab a level 50 tank, ranged physical dps, and healer class. So you'll get a lot of flexibility again in what roles you want to play at the end of ARR even if you've only leveled one class up at that point. Though it's possible that the mechanics of the new class/job that you unlock may not jibe with you. So I'd just say play all the level 1 classes a bit to figure out what you like, than roll with whatever grabs your attention until level 50 and check out the new ones then to see if any of them catch your fancy. Plus at that point you'll have roulettes unlocked which make keeping a secondary class leveled up only require a trivial amount of time.
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Mar 2, 2024 23:41
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The second set of jobs you mentioned comes in at 30, not 50, sadly.
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Mar 2, 2024 23:45
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Flytitle posted:The second set of jobs you mentioned comes in at 30, not 50, sadly.
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Mar 2, 2024 23:45
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Yes, which is why I was referring to the second set (healer/tank/ranged dps.)
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Mar 2, 2024 23:47
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Flytitle posted:Yes, which is why I was referring to the second set (healer/tank/ranged dps.) Might be Gunbreaker, Dancer and Sage?
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Mar 2, 2024 23:50
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The HW jobs... DRK, MCH, AST.
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Mar 2, 2024 23:51
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Flytitle posted:Yes, which is why I was referring to the second set (healer/tank/ranged dps.) Oh, I guess MCH, DRK, and AST start at level 30, yeah. Though you should be able to level them up in a few days using roulettes with minimal effort.
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Mar 2, 2024 23:51
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FuturePastNow posted:Even after they got trimmed down, an awful lot of ARR quests are structured like NPC A sends you to NPC B who refuses to talk to you, so you go to NPC C who has you kill three sheep and then gives you a letter to take back to B. It's annoying. Later expansions have talking and fetch quests, but a lot less of that kind of back-and-forth padding. Except for gathering class quests, which send you to talk to 5 different people about a plant or whatever before you can go cut that plant
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Mar 3, 2024 01:43
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"I've heard of this rock before, but is rock real?" "Rock isn't real but if you insist to talk to rockguy" "A student of mine once tried hitting this rock, he says" "This rock, is the most brutal rock we have ever heard of, you must talk to the rock master" "I don't know if you are ready for this rock" *autogathers double the quest amount in one node*
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Mar 3, 2024 01:47
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But this is just the Marauder questline???
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Mar 3, 2024 02:14
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The marauder questline has at least one (1) good joke so it can't be.
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Mar 3, 2024 03:41
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I was powering through but these Sylphs quests finally made me google “how to buy a level skip”
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Mar 3, 2024 04:59
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AndrewP posted:I was powering through but these Sylphs quests finally made me google “how to buy a level skip”
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Mar 3, 2024 05:01
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Also, you would have to buy a level skip and a story skip separately.
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Mar 3, 2024 06:30
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