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hooman posted:Please quote where I said this was a good thing. It's like you're trying to do the Fukuyama End of History bit, but for Trump.
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Mar 3, 2024 15:53
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dadrips posted:It already has got worse, and will continue to do so barring the democrats being significantly better on a variety of issues instead of aspiring to be slightly less (or equally as) bad than the other guy. Here's a list: https://old.reddit.com/r/WhatBidenHasDone/comments/1abyvpa/the_complete_list_what_biden_has_done/ The Democrats and Biden actually support Ukraine against Russia, Trump has said many times he supports Russia instead, he would ensure Russia keeps invading other countries. Trump's people literally state out-loud they want Christain Fascism for his second term: https://newrepublic.com/post/179150/christian-nationalist-second-trump-term-plans Voting against Biden due to Israel will not improve that situation, and make every other situation worse.
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Mar 3, 2024 15:54
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Eregos posted:I've been thinking a lot about how the 2024 election. After reviewing lots of evidence, I'd handicap it Biden 10% chance of winning, Trump 90%. Biden is almost totally doomed, no precedent for a Democratic incumbent trailing so far. This is assessment is completely at odds with reality. While the media loves to promote a horserace narrative and liberals have a rep for "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory" which causes a lot of doomerism from leftwing crowds, the facts are Biden is overwhelmingly likely to win the election. The only pathway for Trump to conceivably win, since he has no chance of winning more voters than 2020, is to depress the votes of Democratic Party. And that's just very unlikely since Trump motivates Dems to come out to oppose him, and we have consistently seen Democrats over-perform in elections. There is not going to be many people willing to admit that Biden winning is not just possible but probable, because there is no benefit to it. People like to root for an underdog. People don't donate as much to candidates that "don't need it" to win. People aren't as motivated to rush out and vote if they think the candidate they support will win without their vote. But when you cut out the kayfabe its very clear that Biden has every advantage this election. Pleasant Friend fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Mar 3, 2024 |
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Mar 3, 2024 15:54
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Ither posted:The price of insulin is capped to $35 for Americans with Medicare because the Dems controlled the Presidency and Congress in 2022. What's stopping Biden either increasing monopoly enforcement or overruling the parliamentarian, and making it executive decree that it applies whether insured or not? Would you oppose him doing either action, given that as others have stated, the alternative is literal fascism?
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Mar 3, 2024 15:55
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dadrips posted:What's stopping Biden either increasing monopoly enforcement or overruling the parliamentarian, and making it executive decree that it applies whether insured or not? Would you oppose him doing either action, given that as others have stated, the alternative is literal fascism? Really weird way to put it. What's stopping him is the rule of law, and 'we must destroy the rule of law to save it' is literally fascism 101...
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Mar 3, 2024 16:03
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i thought we got rid of qcs to prevent this exact kind of thing (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 3, 2024 16:03
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Really weird way to put it. What's stopping him is the rule of law, and 'we must destroy the rule of law to save it' is literally fascism 101... No, you're right, a decree that says "people shouldn't die of being unable to afford insulin" is the same as one that says "people from Muslim majority countries aren't allowed to enter the country" God forbid someone in the executive branch use their unchecked powers for good for once. The genie's out the bottle, you might as well do something positive with it instead of just handwringing about decorum.
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Mar 3, 2024 16:06
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Worrying that trump will cause nuclear hellfire isn't exactly an unsupported position. He withdrew from the INF and brought the US into conflict with the treaty, beginning the path to having basically no arms control agreements active: https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2019-09/news/us-completes-inf-treaty-withdrawal He ended the JPCOA, an effective deal which verifiably increased Iran's breakout time by a large amount, leading them to be less likely to pivot to nuclear weapons production during a regional crisis or conflict. He openly called for the expansion of the US' nuclear arsenal and considered a return to nuclear testing at NTS: https://time.com/5128394/donald-trump-nuclear-poker/ He engaged in some of the most direct nuclear brinkmanship rhetoric ever seen with a US president while dealing with North Korea: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/08/donald-trump-north-korea-missile-threats-fire-fury He allegedly considered utilizing one against North Korea while trying to blame a third party: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-discussed-using-nuclear-weapon-north-korea-2017-blaming-someone-rcna65120 This is all with the background that the situation Trump inherited in 2016 was basically a paradise of strategic and diplomatic stability compared to the world we live in now. With so many more real flashpoints his rhetoric and brinkmanship would bring even higher risks of escalation than faced in his first term.
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Mar 3, 2024 16:07
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CBS/Yougov (pollster ratings) just released some polling that continues to show Trump leading Biden: Some other interesting questions from the poll:    Related to the ongoing discussion about preserving democracy, it doesn't appear that either Biden or Trump has an edge with voters:  Full poll results here: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-trump-leads-biden-economy/
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Mar 3, 2024 16:09
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This is the guy who stood up on the night of the previous election and just straight-up said "frankly, we did win", and then did everything he could to make that a reality, and but for grace of the chairman of the joint chiefs and a traditionalist vice-president, he very nearly could have. So yeah, this not a party that has much respect for elections any more. His acolytes are on tape saying "gently caress the voting, let's get right to the violence" He's already told us that he is willing and eager to quite literally overthrow democracy. But that doesn't just mean literally "installing himself as dictator for life". It means dismantling the institutions.. etc yadda yadda I'm too tired to go into it. edit - and like I said before, even if Biden does win, significant numbers of people are going to reject the result and will likely resort to violence. edit 2 \/\/ TheDeadlyShoe posted:Why do you think the Trumpists are so mad about the Deep State, just for fun?" It's for Propaganda Bucky Fullminster fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Mar 3, 2024 |
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Mar 3, 2024 16:10
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dadrips posted:No, you're right, a decree that says "people shouldn't die of being unable to afford insulin" is the same as one that says "people from Muslim majority countries aren't allowed to enter the country" Executive powers are in fact checked as hell, so long as the rule of law holds. Why do you think the Trumpists are so mad about the Deep State, just for fun?" Biden's done a lot on Insulin. Do you credit that literally at all?
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Mar 3, 2024 16:11
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dadrips posted:What's stopping Biden either increasing monopoly enforcement or overruling the parliamentarian, and making it executive decree that it applies whether insured or not? Would you oppose him doing either action, given that as others have stated, the alternative is literal fascism? An extremly conservative court.
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Mar 3, 2024 16:11
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Comstar posted:I don’t understand how you can not vote for Biden and simply assume you will get another chance. I would like you to outline very specifically how you think President Donald Trump would eliminate all future elections in America.
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Mar 3, 2024 16:14
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Executive powers are in fact checked as hell, so long as the rule of law holds. Why do you think the Trumpists are so mad about the Deep State, just for fun?" Do you think he's done enough? Are you content with half measures that mean that uninsured people with diabetes - at least 2 million people - still have to pay hundreds of dollars? Again, I'm not interested in procedural niceties. I'm asking whether you think he's done enough, and should be happy with what he's achieved. I'm only concentrating on insulin because it is such an easy win, by the way. If the democrats really wanted to, they could wipe out the need to pay any kind of substantial amount for insulin overnight. Their continued refusal to do so, along with any other number of basic measures that would indicate they actually want to improve people's lives, is why they deserve nothing but contempt.
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Mar 3, 2024 16:16
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dadrips posted:Do you think he's done enough? Are you content with half measures that mean that uninsured people with diabetes - at least 2 million people - still have to pay hundreds of dollars? Again, I'm not interested in procedural niceties. I'm asking whether you think he's done enough, and should be happy with what he's achieved. How would they do this with no legislation? Please outline the steps 1 by 1, ideally with backing from any type of policy experts, without just saying "they should enact their will by decree." Even if Biden wanted to bypass the courts, how would his administration actually enforce the arbitrary decree it has no power to make?
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Mar 3, 2024 16:19
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Jesus III posted:An extremly conservative court. Oh wow, it sure is a shame that it would be impossible for a motivated democratic president to appoint a sufficient number of judges to override the Christian psychos that Trump appointed Again, if you genuinely believe that it's this or fascism, you better be prepared to do something more meaningful than just voting.
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Mar 3, 2024 16:19
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hooman posted:Please quote where I said this was a good thing. See here is the loving problem. Y'all keep thinking that this is about Trump when the problem is that 30-45% of the voting population is fully on board for Fascism. But you'd rather spend your time and energy attacking those who you don't think are fighting against it the right way than deal with that reality.
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Mar 3, 2024 16:22
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Kagrenak posted:How would they do this with no legislation? Please outline the steps 1 by 1, ideally with backing from any type of policy experts, without just saying "they should enact their will by decree." Even if Biden wanted to bypass the courts, how would his administration actually enforce the arbitrary decree it has no power to make? It's actually very simple - the government has a monopoly on power through the courts and the police, and it can use that monopoly on power to force corporations to behave, either through regulatory enforcement or other means if they refuse to cooperate in providing life saving medicine at a cost that everybody can afford without risking debt. This power is currently levied against people who are guilty of nothing more than smoking weed, I'm just asking it to be applied in a socially useful fashion. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 3, 2024 16:22
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I was very excited to see so many posts in this thread because I thought there was maybe some exciting saturday night news, such as progress on a Israel-Hamas ceasefire or the US directly dropping aid into Gaza via air and bypassing Israeli checkpoints, but instead it's a rehashed argument about how Biden hasn't implemented full communism now and the only alternative is to embrace fascism. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 3, 2024 16:23
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dadrips posted:What's stopping Biden either increasing monopoly enforcement or overruling the parliamentarian, and making it executive decree that it applies whether insured or not? Would you oppose him doing either action, given that as others have stated, the alternative is literal fascism? Biden is increasing monopoly enforcement. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2024/02/ftc-challenges-krogers-acquisition-albertsons Also, I would not be opposed to overruling parliamentarian, but I don't think there are enough votes. Minus Manchin and Sinema, that's only 49 Senators. This goes to my point. If there were more Dems, then the quantity (and quality) of policies enacted would increase.
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Mar 3, 2024 16:25
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Kagrenak posted:How would they do this with no legislation? Please outline the steps 1 by 1, ideally with backing from any type of policy experts, without just saying "they should enact their will by decree." Even if Biden wanted to bypass the courts, how would his administration actually enforce the arbitrary decree it has no power to make? The Senate parliamentarian is what stopped them in 2022: https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/07/politics/insulin-cap-democrats-reconciliation-bill/index.html Overrule and/or fire them. There's historical precedent for it. Firing an unelected roadblock standing in the way of making life-saving medications affordable for the 1-in-10 Americans with diabetes doesn't really seem like doing a fascism to me.
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Mar 3, 2024 16:25
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dadrips posted:Oh wow, it sure is a shame that it would be impossible for a motivated democratic president to appoint a sufficient number of judges to override the Christian psychos that Trump appointed The judges don't get onto the court automatically, they have to be approved by the Senate. The Senate would not approve them, because it doesn't have enough Democrats who are in favor of such a move. It could, if more people would vote for Democrats, but then we have folks like you saying "don't vote for Democrats because they don't get anything done" and here we are. Who are you to argue we should "do something more meaningful than just voting" if you're not willing to do that much?
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Mar 3, 2024 16:26
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Since there is now an electoral politics thread, are there no punishments for persisting in polluting this thread with that argument instead of bringing it there? I would read that thread if I wanted to read this argument that has been rehashed in these USCE threads a thousand times. As far as Jan 6th goes, even though it failed in its end of installing Trump as dictator (that’s what you are if you stay leader and are immune to election results), fascists do learn from their mistakes. The Nazis’ beer hall putsch also seems ridiculous in retrospect and failed miserably. But they learned from their mistakes and took another whack at it from a different angle and voila.
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Mar 3, 2024 16:26
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dadrips posted:It's actually very simple - the government has a monopoly on power through the courts and the police, and it can use that monopoly on power to force corporations to behave, either through regulatory enforcement or other means if they refuse to cooperate in providing life saving medicine at a cost that everybody can afford without risking debt. The government isn't one institution and the various institutions have overlapping authorities to impose state control on one another. This is a pretty foundational fact of running a state and what you're describing is just imposing a dictatorship of the executive which would be opposed by the other branches and grind the functioning of the state to a halt through a constitutional crisis.
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Mar 3, 2024 16:27
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Oh good, the insulin discussion is back to entertaining the argument that half measures are somehow worse than no measures at all.
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Mar 3, 2024 16:30
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Ither posted:Minus Manchin and Sinema Why does the democratic party tolerate wreckers like these in their midst, who have done just as much if not more than republicans to stymie progressive legislation? Furthermore, where's the guarantee that "vote blue no matter who" doesn't result in more people like these whose only objection to the republican party platform is aesthetic? Ravenfood posted:Oh good, the insulin discussion is back to entertaining the argument that half measures are somehow worse than no measures at all. Why half measures in the first place? Why are the Dems so concerned with the bottom line of the pharma companies, and not the people they exist to serve? dadrips fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Mar 3, 2024 |
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Mar 3, 2024 16:31
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dadrips posted:Why does the democratic party tolerate wreckers like these in their midst, who have done just as much if not more than republicans to stymie progressive legislation? Furthermore, where's the guarantee that "vote blue no matter who" doesn't result in more people like these whose only objection to the republican party platform is aesthetic? Okay so let's say the Dems throw them out of the caucus. Oops McConnell controls the agenda and WV elects a Republican again because it's loving West Virginia and they've forgotten their founding.
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Mar 3, 2024 16:34
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Kagrenak posted:Okay so let's say the Dems throw them out of the caucus. Oops McConnell controls the agenda and WV elects a Republican again because it's loving West Virginia and they've forgotten their founding. As opposed to right now, where you have the entire democratic party being held to ransom by Mr Coal And Guns
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Mar 3, 2024 16:36
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dadrips posted:Why does the democratic party tolerate wreckers like these in their midst, who have done just as much if not more than republicans to stymie progressive legislation? Furthermore, where's the guarantee that "vote blue no matter who" doesn't result in more people like these whose only objection to the republican party platform is aesthetic? The Democrats tolerate them because they won their primaries, and the alternative to a Democrat who won their primary and partially agrees with you is a Republican who does not agree with you at all. Beat them in the primaries if you want something better. There is no guarantee that you won't elect more officials who turn out like this (especially in purple states!), which is why you need enough of a buffer to marginalize and ignore them until you can primary them. Not a bare 50-50 which is only a majority because you hold the tiebreaker. The Dems are only doing half measures because not enough of them support the full measures you want for those full measures to pass. Again, you need to stop asking why we're not moving mountains with a bare majority. The answer is obvious.
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Mar 3, 2024 16:37
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dadrips posted:Why does the democratic party tolerate wreckers like these in their midst, who have done just as much if not more than republicans to stymie progressive legislation? Furthermore, where's the guarantee that "vote blue no matter who" doesn't result in more people like these whose only objection to the republican party platform is aesthetic? And no, Manchin has not done more to stymie progressive legislation than a random member of the GOP Senate.
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Mar 3, 2024 16:40
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hooman posted:If you want to talk about the overthrow of democracy, you'd be closer arguing that happened in Florida in 2000. hooman posted:You actually think the dumb plan would have worked? Do you have that low a view of the resilience of the electoral system? I dunno how to argue with someone who thinks that a few hundred rioters in Florida were successfully able to subvert our electoral system, but thousands of rioters at the Capital could not, and that the electoral system is solid, but also has already demonstrably failed in the past
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Mar 3, 2024 16:40
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dadrips posted:As opposed to right now, where you have the entire democratic party being held to ransom by Mr Coal And Guns They were able to get some decent things passed while still having that roadblock instead of completely giving up the legislative calendar and doing nothing at all.
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Mar 3, 2024 16:40
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Sounds like the Republic should've executed all the ringleaders of the treasonous plot to overthrow it, and then it wouldn't be collapsing to those exact same ringleaders. We keep letting the insurrectionists go and then being baffled when they don't give up after losing once.
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Mar 3, 2024 16:45
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Trump's not going to get rid of elections if he wins. poo poo, even Saddam didn't get rid of elections. He just won every one that happened after his takeover by 99.8% of the vote, that's all! The silent majority supported Saddam! The vocal ones were screaming their loving lungs out being fed feet-first into industrial plastic shredders. Let's see what's on this ballot, "Saddam" on one side, "Your family gets fed to dogs" on the other. Hmmm... you know... Saddam's not that bad...
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Mar 3, 2024 16:45
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Zwabu posted:
The difference between the beer hall putsch and jan 6 is that there were at least some consequences for the people who led the beer hall putsch
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Mar 3, 2024 16:47
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dadrips posted:As opposed to right now, where you have the entire democratic party being held to ransom by Mr Coal And Guns Is this post from a year and a half ago? Right now they aren't passing much of anything on account of Republicans controlling the House, as opposed to the multiple massive (if neutered) bills they were able to pass in the first two years of the administration. Not to mention the nearly two hundred judges! turns out controlling the chamber is actually pretty important even if you have to wrangle some assholes
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Mar 3, 2024 16:49
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Kagrenak posted:The government isn't one institution and the various institutions have overlapping authorities to impose state control on one another. This is a pretty foundational fact of running a state and what you're describing is just imposing a dictatorship of the executive which would be opposed by the other branches and grind the functioning of the state to a halt through a constitutional crisis. Though it's on a different topic this is a very good post about the functioning of governance and state institutions which summarises why I struggle to believe that Trump will be able to overpower that state inertia to install himself as dictator. It could easily be that I am dumb and have too much belief in the resilience of democratic institutions. I hope that time will not have an opportunity to tell. Lemming posted:I dunno how to argue with someone who thinks that a few hundred rioters in Florida were successfully able to subvert our electoral system, but thousands of rioters at the Capital could not, and that the electoral system is solid, but also has already demonstrably failed in the past I'm not attributing Florida to rioters.
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Mar 3, 2024 16:50
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Byzantine posted:Sounds like the Republic should've executed all the ringleaders of the treasonous plot to overthrow it, and then it wouldn't be collapsing to those exact same ringleaders. We keep letting the insurrectionists go and then being baffled when they don't give up after losing once. If "the Republic" were an entity with a unified will which knew what was good for it then that might have happened, but its decision-making apparatus happens to be a bunch of largely self-interested humans. Many of them lack the vision to see what needs to be done, others lack the will to support it, and a very substantial portion are in fact sympathetic to the plot to overthrow the very system they sit at the top of. Unfortunately, wishing for something better or disliking what we have will not cause an easy way out of the situation to materialize in front of us.
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Mar 3, 2024 16:52
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hooman posted:I'm not attributing Florida to rioters. The Brooks Brothers Riot was a necessary step in the chain that led to the Supreme Court tossing the election to Bush
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Mar 3, 2024 16:52
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dadrips posted:Why does the democratic party tolerate wreckers like these in their midst, who have done just as much if not more than republicans to stymie progressive legislation? Sinema is not be tolerated. She is being primaried (well, she's an independent now, but there's a Dem running for her seat). Manchin is retiring. Also even with them being awful, good legislation has been passed. Good judges have been confirmed. quote:Furthermore, where's the guarantee that "vote blue no matter who" doesn't result in more people like these whose only objection to the republican party platform is aesthetic? There is no guarantee. Sometimes the wool gets pulled over your eyes like what happened with Sinema. But you keep on trying. I mean, what's your alternative? You give up? How does that get you what you want?
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Mar 3, 2024 16:55
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