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that part of the manga is so insanely loving cool
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Mar 2, 2024 16:01
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chrome line posted:And I don't really think Amuro has much ideology. He mostly just seems concerned with stopping violence he see's in front of him, and doesn't seem to care much about politics outside that. I should rewatch his argument with Char in CCA, but I remember it mostly being him arguing Char's plan wouldn't work more than having a true vision of his own That seems to be a common enough thing with protagonists, sadly. It's something II think I picked up on faintly in the back of my mind even as a kid but as an adult it really sticks out to me. Heroes often (if not always) just stop villains from doing stuff and have no real idea of their own. I feel like it's especially bad in a lot of popular anime, too. But I mostly watch anime so that might cloud my judgment.
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Mar 2, 2024 16:18
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Edit: extremely wrong thread
Gripweed fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Mar 2, 2024 |
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Mar 2, 2024 17:21
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Gripweed posted:I've been reading Komi Can't Communicate. When they introduced Ase and her quirk, Ase is sweaty, I thought the author was really scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to come up with memorable one off characters. But then Ase became a pretty prominent character with complex compelling relationships with Isagi (Isagi is a perfectionist) and Naruse (Naruse is a narcissist), and it's like, drat you're pretty good at coming up with these high school weirdos. Is Ashitano a Gundam pilot and Komi Can't Communicate is just communication? Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Mar 2, 2024 |
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Mar 2, 2024 17:25
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So, finally watching more Victory, and it's standing out how different the grunts are in various Gundam shows, even the Tomino ones. Haven't seen enough ZZ to really comment on that one, but to break things down for the first few shows... Zeon is normal. You've got assholes and nice guys, good people in a bad war and bad people intent on making it worse, but a typical Zeon soldier has nothing inherently different about him. The shots of Feddies and Zekes sharing a smoke feel normal, and having a supporting character mention being an ex-Zeon soldier isn't anything of a moral judgement. He was born on Side 3, and the war came for him like anyone else. He was just one of the lucky ones who got out on the other side. The supervillain traits are reserved for the higher ups. The Titans, by contrast, are assholes. Not all of them, you have people like Emma and poor, naive Ajis Aziba who are trying to do the right thing for the right reasons, but the average Titan is shown as a bully who's in the game for personal benefit. They're a recognizable personality type, but a much narrower band of that than Zeon tended to be. But then you have Zanscare. And Zanscare is batshit insane. The people we see aren't just bad people, but when we get to see their logic, it's not "normal" like Joe Zeon, or recognizable but repellant like your average Titan (Your average non-Yazan Titan, anyway, because that guy was so committed to his psycho thing that it loops around to being weirdly charming), but straight up bonkers. Zanscare characters explaining why they do things makes you relate to them less, not more. It fits with Victory's themes about the madness of war, but it also makes it much harder to relate to a lot of the characters.
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Mar 3, 2024 10:07
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Zanscare is functionally a theocracy, so their rank and file troops are almost definitely intended to have somewhat of a whiff of incomprehensible fanaticism about them that "normal" people don't get because they haven't bought into the religion. The closest thing Gundam had to it before that point is the pseudo-spiritualism about newtypes and souls being weighed down by gravity, but aside from some philosophizing Zeon was totally secular.
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Mar 3, 2024 11:18
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I don't know, I think a good chunk of Zanscare are kinda crazy but in ways I'm very sympathetic to. Like that guy who blows himself up in like episode 6 because he can't handle seeing how young Uso is. Or a couple I'm thinking of later on. I do think you're onto something though, and the way Maria is portrayed is fascinating with that in mind Also you should watch more ZZ because it's very interesting to think about through that lense, and it's also just a really good show NikkolasKing posted:That seems to be a common enough thing with protagonists, sadly. It's something II think I picked up on faintly in the back of my mind even as a kid but as an adult it really sticks out to me. Heroes often (if not always) just stop villains from doing stuff and have no real idea of their own. I think this is why IBO is one of my favorites. Tekkadan don't necessarily have a concrete ideology, but they have clear political goals. It's also why 00 season 2 feels so much weaker than season 1. The protagonists not having a clear political ideology inherently bad, there are plenty of great stories out there where that's the case, but it's common enough that when the heroes have something more concrete it stands out
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Mar 3, 2024 12:01
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chrome line posted:I don't know, I think a good chunk of Zanscare are kinda crazy but in ways I'm very sympathetic to. Like that guy who blows himself up in like episode 6 because he can't handle seeing how young Uso is. Or a couple I'm thinking of later on. I do think you're onto something though, and the way Maria is portrayed is fascinating with that in mind That's a great point about 00S1 vs. S2. Never thought of it that way but 00S1's politics is one of its more distinctive and interesting features. I think it's also part of why I've always just liked Relena more than any of the other heroes in Wing. She has an actual plan or belief she's working towards. The Wing Boys just kinda bumble about and, in the end, follow Relena precisely because she actually has a goal and motivation.
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Mar 3, 2024 12:09
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well. she sort of has those things after she reappears as a queen/principal of a high class girl's school whose entire curriculum is the definition of the word pacifism.
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Mar 3, 2024 13:09
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Kanos posted:Zanscare is functionally a theocracy, so their rank and file troops are almost definitely intended to have somewhat of a whiff of incomprehensible fanaticism about them that "normal" people don't get because they haven't bought into the religion. The closest thing Gundam had to it before that point is the pseudo-spiritualism about newtypes and souls being weighed down by gravity, but aside from some philosophizing Zeon was totally secular. I mean, even aside from later works showing a chapel for Zeon and there being all the stuff about going "beyond the time" and seeing past death, which you can discard as other people's vision or minor parts, ZZ Gundam had Muslim characters, and they were much more grounded than Zanscare. There, the religious motives tied into the other motives to make them more relatable, rather than being part of motives that detach them from normal human dynamics. (I'm half tempted to go on a tangent here about Japanese and western approaches to religion in fiction, but it'd go on forever, drift over to 40K for a bit, touch on Saint Louis IX, and then spend paragraphs on Fire Punch, so it's probably best to skip the whole thing.) It feels less like Zanscare is a theocracy, so it's going to be weird, and more like the theocracy is another way to express the baseline weirdness.
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Mar 3, 2024 23:04
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chiasaur11 posted:(I'm half tempted to go on a tangent here about Japanese and western approaches to religion in fiction, but it'd go on forever, drift over to 40K for a bit, touch on Saint Louis IX, and then spend paragraphs on Fire Punch, so it's probably best to skip the whole thing.) That would be worthwhile but better in its own thread.
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Mar 3, 2024 23:39
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zanscare isn't just a theocracy, it's a theocracy built around a living messiah figure who is right there, beaming newtype vibes into peoples' heads. not comparable at all to the muslims in zz or unicorn. there's probably an aum shinrikyo/general new religions thing in play that was felt a lot deeper in 1992, or even just in japan where cults are a lot more visible. i'm rewatching victory after many years too, and i've come to a couple conclusions on inspiration and concept: -first, the obvious - answering the question of whether scirocco was at all serious or not about the whole absolute monarchy via psychic queen thing. it turns out, even if he wasn't, that's an idea with very popular support in jupiter and there are way more people who are 100% on board with that. -second, there's an element of intentionally replying to stuff from early UC, without ever touching direct links to the material. why the whole char's grandson thing was pulled from the show, it would be too direct a link. zanscare is the "first as tragedy, then as farce" line applied to zeon rather than napoleon. zeon was an idealistic revolution hijacked for reasons of pure greed. zeon flattened a city with a colony because the zabis didn't really care about the people in the colony or on earth, they just wanted to win. zanscare built a battleship sized bulldozer to flatten cities because they care in a very specific and bizarre way about the earth itself, but not the people on it -third, it represents tomino arriving at the natural end state of all scifi authors: 
Mister Olympus fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Mar 3, 2024 |
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Mar 3, 2024 23:46
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https://twitter.com/ai_ueo_ai_ueo_a/status/1764193499556294924?t=k06_eXTcMZl39Sgop0gMlw&s=19
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Mar 4, 2024 08:03
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There's a big March Madness Gundam character bracket on twitter. The current matchups are fun, and each one leads to some fun art My favorite related tweet so far is this one https://twitter.com/catacombe_/status/1764410350068273415 Here's the full bracket https://twitter.com/DarthVeda00/status/1758911688471167002 https://twitter.com/DarthVeda00/status/1764294231978377384
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Mar 4, 2024 13:43
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putting Roux up against Kamille first round is so unfair
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Mar 4, 2024 14:16
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The Ramba Ral vs Master Asia "Battle of the 'staches" round was decided by a single vote.
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Mar 4, 2024 14:24
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Arc Hammer posted:The Ramba Ral vs Master Asia "Battle of the 'staches" round was decided by a single vote. yeah that seemed like a really tough call
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Mar 4, 2024 14:36
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Harry Ord takes it over Scirocco with flair. https://twitter.com/CypressPunished/status/1764650412236222476?t=oML-WE7UcMRf_Q-_2sMtWQ&s=19
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Mar 4, 2024 18:34
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i like scirocco as a character but there is no way in hell that slimeball of a man will ever get anywhere in any popularity contest
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Mar 4, 2024 18:38
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I dunno, I hear the Zeta is really into him.
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Mar 4, 2024 18:50
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Harry Ord gets a lot of points for invading the South
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Mar 4, 2024 20:09
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He also gets points for being a strong contender for best pilot in the franchise. He gets a fight like 10 episodes in a row towards the end where he's just doing incredibly cool poo poo and kicking the poo poo out of like 7 mobile suits all by himself every time and it always rules. He might be the character that wins the most (both in fights and at life) in the whole franchise
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Mar 4, 2024 20:26
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Harry Ord is a true G, one of the best I want to say neutral antagonists the franchise has ever produced. You expect him to be a char, but nah he just likes cool glasses too. Turn A is so good.
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Mar 4, 2024 22:37
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Harry is like the anti-Char. No schemes, no fake identity or anything similar, pro monarchy, heterosexual but doesn't let it influence his work, only pilots one suit the entire show, never really fights Loran (I think they only fight once in the whole show, and it's very brief?), gets everything he ever wanted forever and lives basically happily ever after. He ends the show working for the real Char of the show, Kihel. She's blonde, has plans and schemes, has a bunch of fake identity stuff and is specifically very similar to how Eduardo stole Char's identity in the Origin (though that wasn't established at the time, it's still a point towards her Charness), a bunch of homoerotic tension with Dianna, has a sister who she's estranged from by the end of the series... The other potential options are Corrin Nander, but he really only has the mobile suit and the fact that he fights Loran several times and spends a big chunk of the show out of the picture and is obsessed with the Gundam, and Guin who has schemes for days and they all make everything worse without fail and is either gay or a chaser depending on how I choose to read Loran's gender. Guin is kinda like if all the worst things people say about Char were true and exaggerated. He wants to gently caress the child soldier he's got working for him, he's entirely out for himself and doesn't care what happens so long as he's got his, he'll work with anyone to get ahead This is altogether too much effort to put into deciding the Char of Turn A, which isn't something that matters at all. But it's a fun exercise
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Mar 4, 2024 23:56
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chrome line posted:He also gets points for being a strong contender for best pilot in the franchise. He gets a fight like 10 episodes in a row towards the end where he's just doing incredibly cool poo poo and kicking the poo poo out of like 7 mobile suits all by himself every time and it always rules. He might be the character that wins the most (both in fights and at life) in the whole franchise I'm not sure about franchise wide, since he has so few competent opponents and rarely has to fight better suits, but he is quite good. The bombs always come to mind when thinking of Harry's best fears.
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Mar 5, 2024 00:28
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I love this take on Harry from about a month ago.galagazombie posted:I can’t help but think he’s Tomino playing a joke on the audience. The archetype was a set in stone series tradition by that point. Everyone would know and be expecting the requisite Char to appear. So Tomino has a character walk into frame whose design checks all the boxes, and then just nonchalantly brushes them off. Why does he wear the space visor? He’s a space man why wouldn’t he? What’s the reason for his dashing ace pilot persona? Well you see it’s because he’s an ace pilot. What’s his secret agenda? To carry out his stated agenda. Harry Ord rules.
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Mar 5, 2024 00:42
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chiasaur11 posted:I'm not sure about franchise wide, since he has so few competent opponents and rarely has to fight better suits, but he is quite good. The bombs always come to mind when thinking of Harry's best fears. The big feat of piloting Amuro has that I always remember is when he takes out like 9 Doms in about a minute on the way out from Side 6. I don't know why, but in my head that's like the benchmark of a great pilot. Harry gets a moment like that in like 10 episodes of the last 15. But yeah obviously it's impossible to actually judge these differences between shows given different contexts and Newtype stuff and all kinds of factors difficult to judge from here. Omnicrom posted:I love this take on Harry from about a month ago. I love Harry so much. Also I clicked through and realized I was saying the same stuff back then about Corrin being more of a Char than Harry lmao
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Mar 5, 2024 00:55
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So if the RX-78 is the White Devil, we believe in the Sign of Zeta, the Nu isn't just for show and the Unicorn is the Beast of Possibility, what does that make the Xi or the Penelope? UC Gundams tend to take on monikers and ideas greater than the suits themselves, but with the 5th Gen Gundams from Hathaway I'm mainly coming away with them being symbolic of a rotting military industrial complex. They're big, ugly, over-designed monsters that don't seem to carry much in a positive philosophical light.
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Mar 5, 2024 01:43
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Military Industrial Complex Turkeys
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Mar 5, 2024 01:49
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Arc Hammer posted:So if the RX-78 is the White Devil, we believe in the Sign of Zeta, the Nu isn't just for show and the Unicorn is the Beast of Possibility, what does that make the Xi or the Penelope? UC Gundams tend to take on monikers and ideas greater than the suits themselves, but with the 5th Gen Gundams from Hathaway I'm mainly coming away with them being symbolic of a rotting military industrial complex. They're big, ugly, over-designed monsters that don't seem to carry much in a positive philosophical light. Xi at least is pretty much synonymous with Mafty
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Mar 5, 2024 01:53
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ImpAtom posted:Xi at least is pretty much synonymous with Mafty True, though I guess that'll come put more when they finally get around to parts 2 and 3. I haven't read the book so I'm going off the vibes I got from the film.
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Mar 5, 2024 02:08
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Does the ZZ have one? The Victory just kinda steals grandpa's but that's fine because V2 has the wings of light
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Mar 5, 2024 02:54
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The ZZ has the Gump. Or at least it should.
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Mar 5, 2024 03:19
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ZZ doesn't count because it's not from an anime
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Mar 5, 2024 04:50
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https://x.com/Kaihedgie1/status/1764804080092786944?s=20 lets beat this guy up Stairmaster fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Mar 5, 2024 |
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Mar 5, 2024 05:03
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Stairmaster posted:
I mean, I can think of a guy who'll handle things. No need to get in the middle of it, you know?
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Mar 5, 2024 05:33
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Stairmaster posted:https://x.com/Kaihedgie1/status/1764804080092786944?s=20 I read through that whole thread and felt bad for the poor fellow patiently explaining why Dianna is cool and good to a Twitter user.
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Mar 5, 2024 06:54
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This guy calling its popularity "inexplicable" as 12 people patiently explain why they like it and say "you should watch it, it's really good" when he hasn't seen it is pretty funny. I have an idea for a way you could find the explanation! Also he called turn a fans snobbish for saying they like good writing, which is kind of an own goal And yeah, respect to @Deve_Dy for being incredibly patient and explaining all the different reasons people love Turn A and Dianna and not just telling him to shut up when he shifted over to essentially "I don't believe these good things about the show and Dianna exist because in the past bots have manipulated polls for characters that didn't have those good points so I assume this is what's happening here and everyone is just gaslighting me into believing anyone likes Turn A" chrome line fucked around with this message at 07:48 on Mar 5, 2024 |
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Mar 5, 2024 07:36
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https://twitter.com/DarthVeda00/status/1765014448710832294?t=azjmVuKhIi2_EDLKarG-sA&s=19 Finally, a proper punch up.
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Mar 5, 2024 16:21
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It owns that the picture they picked of Dianna is as Kihel though.
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Mar 5, 2024 16:27
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