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Alan Smithee posted:Movie has distinct lack of Toto The specifically DNA-locked vault in the movie goes a good way to answering that. Of course the rulling classes of the Dune universe go to extreme lengths to ensure their monopoly on power. Blood Boils posted:Yes it is better explained in the novel - Yueh knows his wife is already dead, and he's gonna be killed, but it's the best shot at revenge that he can think of. He knows the baron won't be able to resist gloating to Leto's face. It's a near miss! I think a big thing is also that he's basically been mentally programmed and reprogrammed in two different ways, he's probably got a lot of urges he's not really able to resist- as long as there's the slightest plausible deniability his wife is still alive, he must try to rescue her
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Mar 4, 2024 09:39
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Blood Boils posted:Of course not? Sorry, not doing it on purpose. Just seems pretty obvious to me that most dune characters qualify as religious fundies uh what
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Mar 4, 2024 09:40
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Blood Boils posted:Yes it is better explained in the novel - Yueh knows his wife is already dead, and he's gonna be killed, but it's the best shot at revenge that he can think of. He knows the baron won't be able to resist gloating to Leto's face. It's a near miss! Did I read it in this thread or in the actual source material that the appendix gives different possibilities as to how Imperial Conditioning can be turned? I think one was that if you start small you create cracks in the armour. Another that the conditioning only works for some trainees and it's hard to tell until it's too late because: One was definitely that Imperial Conditioning isn't an actual type of effective brainwashing or cognitive rearrangement so much as a self-fulfilling thing where the doctors come to believe they are unable to do harm and so don't even try, but they totally can. Oh, and, the actor who plays Yueh is cool. I didn't realize he hadn't been in much English-language stuff at all prior to Dune.
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Mar 4, 2024 09:46
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Am I the only one who got Giger and Moebius vibes from some of the ships and vehicles in part 2? As in, Jodorowsky’s Dune? I wonder if that was intentional.
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Mar 4, 2024 10:06
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The specifically DNA-locked vault in the movie goes a good way to answering that. Of course the rulling classes of the Dune universe go to extreme lengths to ensure their monopoly on power. we're talking about the Holtzman nukes though if you could set one off IRL by shooting a kevlar vest with a rifle round we'd all be dead
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Mar 4, 2024 10:12
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Giedi Prime being H.R. Giger: The Planet was spectacular. Especially in IMAX.
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Mar 4, 2024 10:20
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Alan Smithee posted:we're talking about the Holtzman nukes though I feel like that whole process is known probably because most everyone who would do that self-selected out of existence in spectacular fashion.
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Mar 4, 2024 10:22
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I actually don't even remember how the personal shields benefit the user in hand-to-hand combat. Is it like using your ballistic vest to help limit stab wound damage since you're already wearing it? I do remember that after the first film came on streaming one of the most common praises I heard were for the scene with the baron and the duke. How Harkonnen turns his shield on even though Leto is paralyzed and half dead without any obvious weapon. Can't remember if it was in the book. But the narrative was that it showed just how shrewd he was. It may be somewhere in the books we don't talk about but I think the baron was known as a preternaturally intelligent quick thinker, at least at one point. Bright Bart fucked around with this message at 11:13 on Mar 4, 2024 |
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Mar 4, 2024 11:04
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One thing that surprised me about Feyd is that the way the arena sequence is set up seems to establish him as a paper tiger. He's used to fixed fights and seems a bit shook when his uncle gives him an actually dangerous opponent, even if he adapts and wins. That's a bit of an odd choice for the primary antagonist of the movie. Is there a parallel here with how Paul is another sort of fake hero who unexpectedly turns into a "real" one?
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Mar 4, 2024 11:09
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I feel like that whole process is known probably because most everyone who would do that self-selected out of existence in spectacular fashion. Detailed, bordering on convoluted explanations for why something is done or not done in a sci-fi/fantasy setting may be more entertaining and even more satisfying. But I also would appreciate a 'F--- you that's why, nerds!' explanation e.g. for why nobody using firearms: 'The physics work different in this world.' 'The finest minds in the galaxy are constantly thinking of ways to improve spears and shields. Which already seem deadly enough. Literally nobody has come up with the idea of gunpowder or lasers.' 'The first person to ever fire an harquebus went out in a huge explosion when sparks set off the cases of powder out of sight. Since then it's been taken that the spirits forbid this technology and nobody has tried again.'
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Mar 4, 2024 11:09
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Bright Bart posted:I actually don't even remember how the personal shields benefit the user in hand-to-hand combat. Is it like using your ballistic vest to help limit stab wound damage since you're already wearing it? protects against stabbing unless you go slow which tbh neither movies have really depicted well
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Mar 4, 2024 11:11
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YaketySass posted:One thing that surprised me about Feyd is that the way the arena sequence is set up seems to establish him as a paper tiger. He's used to fixed fights and seems a bit shook when his uncle gives him an actually dangerous opponent, even if he adapts and wins. That's a bit of an odd choice for the primary antagonist of the movie. Is there a parallel here with how Paul is another sort of fake hero who unexpectedly turns into a "real" one? I think in the books the baron is trying to test both nephews and especially Feyd who is super young, in his mid-teens I think. He even lets him plot to overthrow him just so that he can practice double-crossing and also learn how to shut down a coup and punish its ringleaders.
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Mar 4, 2024 11:12
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Alan Smithee posted:protects against stabbing unless you go slow which tbh neither movies have really depicted well The training scene in the first movie shows this pretty effectively. The shield goes red when they try to stab each other, and they're able to slowly push the weapons through. This happens at least twice.
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Mar 4, 2024 11:15
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the training got the point across decently, the big battles less so notice denis kinda uses the feyd arena to just...do away with it entirely
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Mar 4, 2024 11:18
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https://twitter.com/CultureCrave/status/1764536277071004035
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Mar 4, 2024 11:34
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YaketySass posted:One thing that surprised me about Feyd is that the way the arena sequence is set up seems to establish him as a paper tiger. He's used to fixed fights and seems a bit shook when his uncle gives him an actually dangerous opponent, even if he adapts and wins. That's a bit of an odd choice for the primary antagonist of the movie. Is there a parallel here with how Paul is another sort of fake hero who unexpectedly turns into a "real" one?
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Mar 4, 2024 12:00
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Huxley posted:I'm really interested to see how we even arrive back at the starting point of Messiah, or even if the story departs HUGELY from the books. I just don't see a reasonable path back from the end of D2 to the start of Book Messiah. Thank you for this post. I was thinking about this last night but couldn’t really articulate it. Denis is clearly transforming the story into something of this own creation that can be digested by main stream audiences and tell his version of what he thinks the message of Dune is. And to be fair, he delivered on 2 great movies, and after refreshing my memory with the Wiki for Dune Messiah, I’m not going to hold the guy responsible for doing ALL THAT to tell what is simply the conclusion of Paul’s story. I expect the same as you, that Messiah the film will carry some high level plot points but be so absolutely strip out any real universe building or hooks for future sequels. For better or for worse, I’m thinking people (and the studio for sure) want to see Denis’ Tim and Zendaya story not Frank’s Dune Series story. And I’m settling into that now so that when it does happen I can just sit back and enjoy the changes and not be upset that doors may be forever closed for future sequels, that will probably be unfilmable anyways tbh. Crazyweasel fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Mar 4, 2024 |
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Mar 4, 2024 13:23
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sebmojo posted:The fundamental argument of dune is that no he could not, you can disagree with that but it's what the book says very explicitly Sir I'm not debating the terms of the book I'm just nerdposting about the definition of charisma. Paul flicked a match on some especially flammable tinder and got what he wanted, but that's tyrant charisma. He totally didn't have a choice in the matter but that's also why he's spice Hitler.
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Mar 4, 2024 14:56
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Bright Bart posted:I think in the books the baron is trying to test both nephews and especially Feyd who is super young, in his mid-teens I think. He even lets him plot to overthrow him just so that he can practice double-crossing and also learn how to shut down a coup and punish its ringleaders. No, he's surprised and nearly dies but is basically oh you young scamp about it, after making feyd kill his entire harem with a knife
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Mar 4, 2024 15:10
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This is great https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4GJ_zvOJ5T/?igsh=dDR4NWo1NWZnYnFs
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Mar 4, 2024 15:54
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https://twitter.com/whyrev/status/1764455719430975984 https://twitter.com/thefrankzenteno/status/1764592604425994623?s=20 big only allowed in japan commercial energy
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Mar 4, 2024 16:22
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Feel like I could put together a more on-brand costume from random stuff in my closet
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Mar 4, 2024 16:26
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I just love how pissed she is about them eating her popcorn
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Mar 4, 2024 16:29
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Bright Bart posted:I actually don't even remember how the personal shields benefit the user in hand-to-hand combat. Is it like using your ballistic vest to help limit stab wound damage since you're already wearing it? If I recall, the Baron does slap his shield on in the book and between the shield slowing the expelled gas and the Baron shoving himself up and out of the way, he only gets a mild dose. The shield and his suspensors are the only things that keep him alive. Alan Smithee posted:we're talking about the Holtzman nukes though I assume lasguns are just much more tightly controlled than shields, and even shields probably aren't actually common. The story just takes place at the echelons of power where they seem more common than they are for the rest of the universe. Bright Bart posted:Did I read it in this thread or in the actual source material that the appendix gives different possibilities as to how Imperial Conditioning can be turned? I think one was that if you start small you create cracks in the armour. Another that the conditioning only works for some trainees and it's hard to tell until it's too late because: One was definitely that Imperial Conditioning isn't an actual type of effective brainwashing or cognitive rearrangement so much as a self-fulfilling thing where the doctors come to believe they are unable to do harm and so don't even try, but they totally can. It's a running theme that all these super-conditioned and ultra-trained people like Mentats and BGs have their own critical weaknesses, sometimes in how they operate (a Mentat is only as good as the information they have) or in the muddy personal aspects of being a human getting in the way. It'd fit right in if the Imperial Conditioning is actually barely-effective garbage that is mostly propped up by everyone acting like it's real, including the kind of people who'd undergo brainwashing in order to be better doctors.
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Mar 4, 2024 18:03
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:If Frank Herbert had lived I think it would have been something more interesting, but ultimately what it amounts to is a series of endless potential threats, an unending line of barbarian invaders, each in turn invading, and then being integrated into, the core. Thesis (stability) + Antithesis (violent invasion) = Synthesis (integration). That was Leto's ultimate Golden Path: an unending Hegelian dialectic with an ever-expanding universe of new and terrible ideas. It's the ultimate antidote to prescience: a constant influx of new ideas. This is great.
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Mar 4, 2024 18:09
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isn't the lasgun/shield thing not that shooting a lasgun at a shield will cause a nuclear explosion but that it might? like there's a 50/50 chance. or am i remembering that wrong?
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Mar 4, 2024 18:11
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:isn't the lasgun/shield thing not that shooting a lasgun at a shield will cause a nuclear explosion but that it might? like there's a 50/50 chance. or am i remembering that wrong? I think it was 50/50 for whether it’s shooter or target that explodes.
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Mar 4, 2024 18:16
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:isn't the lasgun/shield thing not that shooting a lasgun at a shield will cause a nuclear explosion but that it might? like there's a 50/50 chance. or am i remembering that wrong? sure, but that doesn't really change much either
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Mar 4, 2024 18:20
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ephori posted:I think it was 50/50 for whether it’s shooter or target that explodes. It’s a complete wild card as to how big the explosion will be. The first book seems to put fairly strict limits on the lower limit (both the shooter and the shielded target die) but the explosion can be any size, up to the size of an atomic explosion.
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Mar 4, 2024 18:24
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on reflection I think I was too high on the movie coming out of it. the film really was lacking in feyd-rautha speedo scenes. unfortunately for that reason I'm knocking down my rating from 5/5 to 2/5 stars.
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Mar 4, 2024 18:25
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:isn't the lasgun/shield thing not that shooting a lasgun at a shield will cause a nuclear explosion but that it might? like there's a 50/50 chance. or am i remembering that wrong? Iirc there was a chance nothing happens and they just cancel each other out
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Mar 4, 2024 18:27
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Yeah I do feel like you'd actually see it used for terrorism more, but the fact that it's completely unpredictable means you can't even rely on it to be a suicide weapon
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Mar 4, 2024 18:31
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Where's my man Stilgar at? There's some clown calling himself naib in this movie dragging his name through the mud.
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Mar 4, 2024 18:40
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fwiw the first book is kind of vague but the range of reaction seems to be "two people die" up to "gigantic superatomic explosion":frank wormbert posted:Jessica focused her mind on lasguns, wondering. The white-hot beams of disruptive light could cut through any known substance, provided that substance was not shielded. The fact that feedback from a shield would explode both lasgun and shield did not bother the Harkonnens. Why? A lasgun-shield explosion was a dangerous variable, could be more powerful than atomics, could kill only the gunner and his shielded target. The unknowns here filled her with uneasiness.
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Mar 4, 2024 18:55
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YggdrasilTM posted:uh what It's a minor argument from earlier in the thread. I probably should have been clearer that I'm not using "fundamentalism" or "ideology" as perjoratives (as is often the case) but merely as descriptions.
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Mar 4, 2024 19:06
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Duke: “I bet she’s thinking of other men”Magic Hate Ball posted:Jessica focused her mind on lasguns,
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Mar 4, 2024 19:08
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Magic Hate Ball posted:fwiw the first book is kind of vague but the range of reaction seems to be "two people die" up to "gigantic superatomic explosion": If I'm reading it correctly, that quote also provides some context to a scene in Part 1 that raised some eyebrows, where the Harkonnens are firing lasers at Duncan's shielded ornithopter while he flies out of Arrakeen. It doesn't happen in the book as I recall, but it seems the boon does explicitly say that the Harkonnens are reckless with that sort of thing
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Mar 4, 2024 19:09
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Blood Boils posted:It's a minor argument from earlier in the thread. I probably should have been clearer that I'm not using "fundamentalism" or "ideology" as perjoratives (as is often the case) but merely as descriptions. ...There is someone using "ideology" as pejorative? As pejorative of what?
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Mar 4, 2024 19:22
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man, really dig the visually aspects of this movie. during the arena fight, the way feyd-rutha's face almost becomes a socks and buskin mask gave me chills it's been a while since ive read the book, but kind of surprising how the terraforming motivation for the fremen was just removed, especially given how much that dream drove chani's attraction to paul in the novel
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Mar 4, 2024 19:23
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Yeah, I enjoyed the movie, but the more I think about it the more I think the major changes / omissions work against the quality of the story.
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Mar 4, 2024 19:39
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