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Failed Imagineer posted:Maybe a goon rewrite would have him say "Chani, here's the 411, I'm gonna marry this broad but don't worry I'll never gently caress her", but it honestly doesn't seem congruent with their characters here. That's pretty much exactly what happens in the original. "I swear to you now," he whispered, "that you'll need no title. That woman over there will be my wife and you but a concubine because this is a political thing and we must weld peace out of this moment, enlist the Great Houses of the Landsraad. We must obey the forms. Yet that princess shall have no more of me than my name. No child of mine nor touch nor softness of glance, nor instant of desire."
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Mar 5, 2024 07:35
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disposablewords posted:That's pretty much exactly what happens in the original. Dialogue wasn't one of Herbert's strengths and this is a pretty good illustration of why... Illmade posted:His wife. You don't learn that they aren't married till 5 seconds before everyone gets murdled and the reason is never explained. And no it is not reasonable to expect audiences to intuit that the marriage customs of feudal space lords allow them to father heirs with space witches while staying unmarried to keep themselves open to future alliances through marriage. I thought you meant you were confused after he said he should have married her. At that point it's obvious that she's a concubine and it's not necessary to know earlier. You don't need to know about space lords, concubines are from the real world. Bugblatter fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Mar 5, 2024 |
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Mar 5, 2024 07:56
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disposablewords posted:That's pretty much exactly what happens in the original. Yeahhhh... Very strong username:post combo
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Mar 5, 2024 09:23
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The Rizzatz Haderach
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Mar 5, 2024 10:03
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Cassian of Imola posted:you're making that connection based on outside knowledge. spice isn't blue elsewhere in the film (except the Fremen eyes), it's that gold sparkle. and it's not at all clear that what Paul experiences when he breathes in spice is a form of prescience/ancestor-speak comparable to the water of life The blue Fremen spice eyes are in the film. Jessica and Paul get them too after drinking the water. There's a small scene where Paul notices the Fremen put spice in their food...like...
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Mar 5, 2024 10:08
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Ratios and Tendency posted:The blue Fremen spice eyes are in the film. Jessica and Paul get them too after drinking the water. There's a small scene where Paul notices the Fremen put spice in their food...like... Also the textbook narration in the first film : "The spice is what gives the Fremen their characteristic blue eyes, the eyes of Ibad"
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Mar 5, 2024 10:10
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Mar 5, 2024 10:26
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Failed Imagineer posted:Also the textbook narration in the first film : "The spice is what gives the Fremen their characteristic blue eyes, the eyes of Ibad" See also: Guild navigators, Paul's prescience, Golden Path, laser-shield interaction, etc.
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Mar 5, 2024 10:27
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Boooooooooooooo
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Mar 5, 2024 10:28
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"A
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Mar 5, 2024 10:35
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT7F0eKfctg&t=64s
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Mar 5, 2024 10:36
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it could have been the most libertarian mmo since EVE but no this is babby hand hold poo poo
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Mar 5, 2024 10:37
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I bet there's an old school paper rpg out there where you have to roll laser/shield interactions on some monstrous d100 table.
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Mar 5, 2024 12:32
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Stilgar is the best character without a doubt. Best lines. Almost inscrutable until it clicks.Tree Bucket posted:I bet there's an old school paper rpg out there where you have to roll laser/shield interactions on some monstrous d100 table. Okay someone reply with your own spoiler-tagged re: atomics for me please: Why does how Atreides have nuclear warheads when these are outlawed and they're the goody two shoes of houses? And why have them set up to hit targets on Arakis? They knew the Emperor's assignment was a trap, does that have anything to do with it? Bright Bart fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Mar 5, 2024 |
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Mar 5, 2024 13:02
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Bright Bart posted:Stilgar is the best character without a doubt. Best lines. Almost inscrutable until it clicks. Using them is outlawed, but all houses have their own House Atomics as a form of mutually assured destruction, basically
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Mar 5, 2024 13:10
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Presumably it was to Strangelove the whole planet with a Doomsday machine deterrent... which never got implemented because either Duke Leto I was too sane or didn't have enough time. The ability to destroy the Spice fields would allow them to control them, to paraphrase the opening.
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Mar 5, 2024 13:20
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Tree Bucket posted:I bet there's an old school paper rpg out there where you have to roll laser/shield interactions on some monstrous d100 table. In the Dune board game if you use a lasgun on a shield it immediately wipes out all units in the entire sector, which is like 5% of the whole of Arrakis.
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Mar 5, 2024 13:23
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Bright Bart posted:Okay someone reply with your own spoiler-tagged re: atomics for me please: Atomics are allowed, but using them against humans is abominable. So nuking a mountain range in order to delete it is fine, and so is nuking empty spice fields. If you leave no witnesses who can attest to the use of atomics against humans it's probably also fine. Basically might makes right.
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Mar 5, 2024 13:56
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The only guarantee of the great convention is that all the other houses will team up to kick your rear end which Dune part 1 suggests is a questionable enforcement mechanism. Shame Dune part 2 forgets that all of that exists.
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Mar 5, 2024 14:00
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Really, really stupid thing for me to really, really like: If the ranks are at all like we have had, and they seem to pretty much be, it's wild that a baron would be in direct competition to someone who as a duke would be a half-step down from the emperor himself. Harkonnen are financially and politically savvy. And in our world there have been cases of punching above your class (e.g. Count of Flanders). But I think most fantasy or sci-fi writers would have just made Harkonnen a duke as well and this is cleverer.
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Mar 5, 2024 14:36
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Bright Bart posted:Really, really stupid thing for me to really, really like: Baron Harkonnen just flows off the tongue so much better. And that's probably also on purpose. The Harkonnen are framed basically as new money, decadent and depraved, while the Atreides are refined and respectable. Also drives home how arbitrary the titles are, and how the differences are ultimately mostly cosmetic in the end.
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Mar 5, 2024 14:44
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Also drives home how arbitrary the titles are, and how the differences are ultimately mostly cosmetic in the end. Yeah I think in the books there's a character who has a title to some desolate planets with no vassals under him but because it's a high title he got to hang around someone important and become their friend even though he's basically an otherwise inconsequential pauper.
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Mar 5, 2024 14:47
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Ccs posted:A number of friends, including a few who worked on the vfx for it, didn't see it this weekend because they couldn't get IMAX tickets. I settled for seeing it in Ultra AVX in a fairly well attended theater, but I had no trouble getting good seats. I'm trying to find a news story or release about it but I can't find anything. that's really breaks my heart though. there was a really great article somewhere that went in depth into their process, how pre-prod fed into the post-prod vfx, the innovations they had to make to create the effects DV wanted. all of that institutional knowledge and innovation gone like sand in the wind
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Mar 5, 2024 15:14
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Doesn't Dune have all manner of solid weapons and such too? I'm surprised they just went in assuming the lasgun is the default firearm. Also I thought the issue with lasguns wasn't that they caused a huge explosion when shooting shields, but that the result was completely unpredictable, like it might cause a huge explosion, cause nothing, or might cause some kind of backfire where the user's weapon bursts and kills them instead of the target, etc. They could have had a lot of fun with that making the lasgun like a last resort desperation thing like Shermie's ultimate in King of Fighters 2002 UM or something where it's potentially very strong but has a chance to just kill you instead. Then use other stuff as the general use weaponry instead. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Mar 5, 2024 |
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Mar 5, 2024 15:17
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loving booooo!!!!!
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Mar 5, 2024 15:25
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Bugblatter posted:Dialogue wasn't one of Herbert's strengths and this is a pretty good illustration of why... The writing is great and exactly how dialogue from a hyperintelligent, prescient super human should be. If DV wrote it, it would be a hastily-delivered one-liner just to get the exposition out of the way, Ala Gurney's "The Harkonnens killed my whole family and Rabban gave me this scar on my face!"
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Mar 5, 2024 15:35
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Do they swear in the books? I caught Paul saying, "poo poo" at one point.
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Mar 5, 2024 15:44
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Illmade posted:The writing is great and exactly how dialogue from a hyperintelligent, prescient super human should be. If DV wrote it, it would be a hastily-delivered one-liner just to get the exposition out of the way, Ala Gurney's "The Harkonnens killed my whole family and Rabban gave me this scar on my face!" A hyper intelligent human would probably realize he sounded like a stilted weirdo. A prescient one could look into the possible future and see how people would react to him talking like a dweeb, then not do it.
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Mar 5, 2024 16:46
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The weird style works well enough within the context of the book but uhhhh I would not want to sit through 6 hours of that on screen.
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Mar 5, 2024 16:54
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Illmade posted:The writing is great and exactly how dialogue from a hyperintelligent, prescient super human should be. Why?
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Mar 5, 2024 16:58
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Bugblatter posted:A hyper intelligent human would probably realize he sounded like a stilted weirdo. A prescient one could look into the possible future and see how people would react to him talking like a dweeb, then not do it. He textually looks into the future and sees that people worship him as a god, so clearly his dialog was perfect and you're a fool for thinking otherwise. 
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Mar 5, 2024 17:01
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Then what's the point
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Mar 5, 2024 17:04
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Bugblatter posted:A hyper intelligent human would probably realize he sounded like a stilted weirdo. A prescient one could look into the possible future and see how people would react to him talking like a dweeb, then not do it. He doesn't sound like a stilted weirdo. He sounds like the Emperor of a galactic civilization 10,000 years in the future, the product of a genetic breeding program stretching thousands of years to create the ultimate human. The Kwisatz Haderach isn't meant to be the guy you most want to have a beer with.
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Mar 5, 2024 17:18
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Writing was not Frank Herbert's strong suit.
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Mar 5, 2024 17:24
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Illmade posted:He doesn't sound like a stilted weirdo. He sounds like the Emperor of a galactic civilization 10,000 years in the future, the product of a genetic breeding program stretching thousands of years to create the ultimate human. I've never met one of those so I'm not sure what they sound like
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Mar 5, 2024 17:25
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Writing was not Frank Herbert's strong suit. Beefswelling was
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Mar 5, 2024 17:45
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Illmade posted:He doesn't sound like a stilted weirdo. He sounds like the Emperor of a galactic civilization 10,000 years in the future, the product of a genetic breeding program stretching thousands of years to create the ultimate human. How do you know?
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Mar 5, 2024 17:49
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Failed Imagineer posted:Yeahhhh... The point being that it wouldn't be some "goon rewrite" you're disparaging for Paul to make it clear to Chani what's up. The ambiguity is the rewrite.
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Mar 5, 2024 18:25
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Neo Rasa posted:Doesn't Dune have all manner of solid weapons and such too? I'm surprised they just went in assuming the lasgun is the default firearm. When they're first introduced in the first book Paul mentions that lasguns are high maintenance, which is why they're not used a lot.
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Mar 5, 2024 18:42
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Why exactly do the other houses refuse to accept Paul? They have to for plot reasons, but is it explained in the books? The formalities have been ticked off. The emperor betrayed a vassal, fought that vassal and lost, fought a duel by proxy for the throne and lost, abdicated, and his daughter married the person he betrayed? Seems pretty fitting. Enough to get passed the forced duel and abdication part in terms of just desserts. Is Christopher Walken somehow much more charismatic and beloved than it seems? Did they need a weak emperor and saw that Paul would not be that? Or did they accept that the emps was garbage but went 'Me now. Now me emperor! Not Paul. Me!'? muscles like this! posted:When they're first introduced in the first book Paul mentions that lasguns are high maintenance, which is why they're not used a lot. You're reminding me of the first season of the Witcher show on Netflix, where we learn that the equivalent of artillery can be lethal to the sorcerer firing it. Which means they don't use their fully trained sorcerers but those who aren't ready to have an even shot at surviving. Which means it's 95% sacrificing a potential future powerful sorcerer who can already do a lot of cool things just to fire that one energy catapult.
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Mar 5, 2024 19:06
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