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Foul Fowl posted:i understand why the ID system is not in any modern games that i can think of (too much player friction, too much system and game knowledge needed to reduce chances of loving yourself over, no way to completely 100% prevent being hosed over by bad luck) but i'm a big fan of it. I really like some of Nethack's IDing, like dipping things into potions narrowing down the possibilities without just giving you the answer outright. It's also a mechanic ripe for injecting flavor/comedy, like all of the results of dropping a rink down a sink. "You thought your Ring of Searching got lost in the sink, but there it is!" is genius.
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Mar 5, 2024 09:00
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Koburn posted:Just started playing The Void Rains Upon Her Heart, there is so much to radiate and I'm just a smol bean with few tetrids. What should I be prioritizing? Radiate monsters to unlock quick play, and the gifts you want to use in quick play.
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Mar 5, 2024 10:03
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Koburn posted:Just started playing The Void Rains Upon Her Heart, there is so much to radiate and I'm just a smol bean with few tetrids. What should I be prioritizing? Or cheat engine your way out of the grind. But otherwise the previous answer is great. Even if you don't like quickplay, knowing your opponents and if the fight will give you useful gifts is useful for the main story mode too.
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Mar 5, 2024 10:13
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Mithross posted:Radiate monsters to unlock quick play, and the gifts you want to use in quick play. Yep, it's monsters then gifts then events
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Mar 5, 2024 10:45
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Doomsayer with the new class is pretty drat fun. The gilded dead god worked great too, since I could leave them behind to clear out stragglers while I run to another enemy clump to keep the doom train rolling. 
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Mar 5, 2024 11:32
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Unlucky7 posted:Question about Rescue Points in Shiren 6: Are they only for Rescue Aids, which as far as I know are only for when you do rescues? I am just trying to figure out what the benefit to going around on the Rescue board completing jobs. Closest I get is to do a self rescue and use the Aids to clown on the early floors to make it all easier. Yeah, rescue points are a closed system, you can only spend them to help on other rescues. Foul Fowl posted:yeah the rescue board was in 5. i think they region locked rescues in shiren 6, which if true was a terrible idea and the only bad thing about the game so far. i've not gotten rescued once (although i've not really waited around for it) while i played shiren 5 in 2022 and a japanese player would rescue me without fail within a few hours of dying. I'm pretty sure rescues are still cross region in 6, I think that's what all the people with "Far Wanderer" rather than a name are from. In 5 you could rescue someone in the story dungeon without entering a dungeon at all, the rescuer just needed to burn a revival grass, so that might be why they were so fast. Agreed about the ID system, I think it's really well done in Shiren. It helps that the ingame tools for it are good, with the game tracking all the items you've positively identified and all the items you think you've identified but don't know for sure, since that + price id means you can narrow things down enough that you're not just using items blindly.
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Mar 5, 2024 15:04
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ID systems in general are good. I don’t think a lot of the streamlining that’s happened in modern RL stuff is necessarily a bad thing. Quite the contrary in some cases. But item ID friction adds a ton of variability to the early game of any roguelike, provided the item effects themselves are varied enough to support it. That’s the real rub. If you don’t have enough cool good and bad effects alike, plus some effects that are contextually one or the other, then the ID game becomes pointless. Just reminds me how glad I am that Shiren exists. Those ninjas suck, btw. Are they new to 6? I feel like yes, but am not sure. For as much as I love this series I’ve never beaten one lol. That’s gonna change with 6 I think.
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Mar 5, 2024 17:32
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I can think of three main cases where the ID minigame breaks down: - using some items without IDing them first is de facto run-ending. For example, a scroll that curses your weapon, rendering it ineffective and impossible to remove, in a game where melee combat is mandatory (NB presuming there's no way to ID scrolls besides reading them). - it requires extensive knowledge of niche details that people realistically aren't going to learn without taking notes. Example: price IDing in NetHack. - direct identification is available, but is tedious to use. Angband had a big issue with this for the first ~20 years of its history, in that the Identify spell had a high cost and failure rate, but you could safely just try to cast it over and over again and rest up when out of MP (and Angband has no "clock" mechanisms to speak of, to encourage you to not waste time).
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Mar 5, 2024 19:12
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Blade Assault Enjoyers get to rejoice in June as the devs are back with lessons learned and a slick looking new project starting EA: Dragon is Dead https://store.steampowered.com/app/2803280/Dragon_Is_Dead/ quote:Dragon is Dead is a hack-and-slash, roguelite action platformer. It offers tons of customization fun with different character skill trees and legendary equipment. Overcome repeated deaths to defeat Guernian, the leader of the Dark Dragons.
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Mar 5, 2024 19:50
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:- direct identification is available, but is tedious to use. Angband had a big issue with this for the first ~20 years of its history, in that the Identify spell had a high cost and failure rate, but you could safely just try to cast it over and over again and rest up when out of MP (and Angband has no "clock" mechanisms to speak of, to encourage you to not waste time). "Balance by tedium" like this is a problem with a lot of the older games and slightly endemic to the genre as it was initially conceived. If permadeath means your stakes on failure are to lose 10 hours of a run, it suddenly becomes "rational" to spend a single hour doing something extremely safe and tedious like grinding or farming in order to hedge against that outcome, if the game permits it.
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Mar 5, 2024 20:29
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King of Bleh posted:"Balance by tedium" like this is a problem with a lot of the older games and slightly endemic to the genre as it was initially conceived. If permadeath means your stakes on failure are to lose 10 hours of a run, it suddenly becomes "rational" to spend a single hour doing something extremely safe and tedious like grinding or farming in order to hedge against that outcome, if the game permits it. It's this and also not having a fully-developed understanding of gamer psychology or where the fun is in your game. It's very easy to design a game that has tedious-but-optimal gameplay, and you may sometimes need to get pretty inventive to avoid it. Going back to Angband because I know it pretty well (or I did as of a decade ago, anyway): Old Angband: - Has potions that will just straight-up kill you, potions that permanently drain stats/experience, scrolls that destroy your gear while also sticky-cursing it, etc etc etc - Has "pseudo-ID", where if you carry an item in your inventory for long enough (small random chance every turn, but generally slow), it'll give you a hint about how good it is - Has just absolutely gigantic piles of loot, like a single high-level enemy could drop up to 16 items if there's enough room. The only saving grace here is that items can't stack on the floor, so if the floor's full, all the loot is just lost. - Scrolls of Identify can be purchased from the town store, in limited quantities - All casters can eventually get the Identify spell, though it takes awhile to become reliable, especially for priests and paladins - Loot can be sold to shopkeepers for substantial amounts of money, whose only real purpose is to splurge on rare items in the Black Market, if you're lucky enough for them to spawn there. The main consequence of this is that after every single fight, you spend several minutes sorting through all of the loot, and maximizing the GP value of your backpack. Then you move on to the next fight and do it all again. You frequently return to town to unload your pretty-but-functionally-useless loot on the shopkeepers, check the Black Market in the hopes that there's actually something valuable there, then go back to the dungeon. New Angband: - Negative consumables are nearly gone, and the ones that remain are pretty manageable (worst probably being "you vomit", which sets your hunger level to just above the level where you start fainting from lack of food). "Permanent" stat drain is cured on level-up or by drinking a permanent-gain-stat potion, but "restore drained stat" potions no longer exist. - Enemy drops are massively culled to avoid generating large quantities of uninteresting loot, e.g. "Dagger of Slay Orc" when you've long since graduated to fighting greater demons - Equipment has "runes", one rune per trait. So e.g. a Dagger of Flame has three runes: one for "causes burning damage on attack", one for "increases light radius", and one for "grants resistance to fire". The PC automatically detects when a rune takes effect, though this may require them getting hit by an attack while wielding the item. In practice, this means that in the late game, all items are automatically ID'd on pickup. - Direct identification via spells or scrolls does not exist. - Shopkeepers give you zero gold if you "sell" them something, but they will ID it and then put it up for sale, so you can buy it back if you want. - Gold drops are worth significantly more than in Old Angband. In this version, you spend most of your time in the dungeon. Rare items with new runes present you with interesting decisions, because you'll want to figure out what they do without too badly compromising your ability to fight. Sorting through loot is pretty quick, because there's not as much of it, and what is there is more likely to be interesting. There's little incentive to return to town unless you need to re-stock on consumables. Your backpack is full of things you're likely to actually use, rather than things you plan to sell.
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Mar 6, 2024 03:55
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You know, I never played any of the *bands except for Sil, which I really enjoyed. The idea of an infinite dungeon and how 'clearing' levels was suboptimal took a while to adjust to, but otherwise the basics seemed straightforward. Is Angband or some of its descendants still worth checking out today? Be cruel.
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Mar 6, 2024 04:04
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FrogComposBand is cool. it's the result of variants of variants (which were variants of a variant) of variants of two variants mashed together of variants of variants of angband. things just keep piling up and the race/class/Just Playing A Monster list is huge and filled with all kinds of weird, niche poo poo. play a tonberry ninja. play a balrog politian. play a quylthulg and be incapable of moving normally or attacking but summon hordes of monsters. play a ring mimic who also can't move or attack and has to trick humanoid enemies into wearing it, then mindcontroling them. beat up insanely obscure 90s anime reference enemies because one of the variants it's built off of is from japan 20 years ago. it's a hugely long game if you let it be. but also there's an alternate gamemode called coffeebreak that speeds up progression and consolidates the gameworld to just one dungeon and some quests. or the instant coffee gamemode which is hilariously fast progress but is basically like playing slots because of how random it can be. or thrall, which starts you at the bottom of an endgame dungeon at level 1 and the goal is to escape and then play normally. it has a lot going on.
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Mar 6, 2024 04:22
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That is, perhaps, more than I'm looking for.
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Mar 6, 2024 06:08
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Kobold Sex Tape posted:FrogComposBand is cool. it's the result of variants of variants (which were variants of a variant) of variants of two variants mashed together of variants of variants of angband. things just keep piling up and the race/class/Just Playing A Monster list is huge and filled with all kinds of weird, niche poo poo. play a tonberry ninja. play a balrog politian. play a quylthulg and be incapable of moving normally or attacking but summon hordes of monsters. play a ring mimic who also can't move or attack and has to trick humanoid enemies into wearing it, then mindcontroling them. beat up insanely obscure 90s anime reference enemies because one of the variants it's built off of is from japan 20 years ago. it's a hugely long game if you let it be. but also there's an alternate gamemode called coffeebreak that speeds up progression and consolidates the gameworld to just one dungeon and some quests. or the instant coffee gamemode which is hilariously fast progress but is basically like playing slots because of how random it can be. or thrall, which starts you at the bottom of an endgame dungeon at level 1 and the goal is to escape and then play normally. Welp, I'm sold, downloading
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Mar 6, 2024 06:24
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IT COMES....as well as a mysterious big Slice & Dice v3.0 update~ https://store.steampowered.com/app/1775490/Slice__Dice/ Depths of Ascension as a forthcoming high-effort "Traditional": https://store.steampowered.com/app/2853220/Depths_of_Ascension/ quote:Depths of Ascension is a Traditional Roguelike set in a fantasy world inspired by ancient Mesopotamia and the Early Bronze Age cultures, with magic, active gods, and demihuman races. In this turn-based, tile-based, dungeon-delving RPG with permadeath and procedural generation, you explore the dungeons, corridors, and caves of the twisted and ever-changing Mazes of Madness.
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Mar 6, 2024 13:14
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I'm a philistine who doesn't buy much if it's not on Steam. So I've heard about this Slice 'n Dice game, but never played it. I hate deckbuilders and the like, but curious expedition's die rolls didn't bother me, so would this be a good fit? Is there more than just combat?
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Mar 6, 2024 13:41
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Serephina posted:You know, I never played any of the *bands except for Sil, which I really enjoyed. The idea of an infinite dungeon and how 'clearing' levels was suboptimal took a while to adjust to, but otherwise the basics seemed straightforward. I'd say it's worth checking out if you're into the more combat-oriented number-go-up side of things. The emphasis is on identifying whether you can cope with a given threat, and avoiding the ones you can't. Take on the hardest threat you can, hopefully get good loot from it, use that loot to go deeper in the dungeon, and repeat. That said, the melee classes do spend a lot of time bump-attacking enemies in doorways, so bear that in mind. Angband, the vanilla game, is still under active development; the github has an update posted as of two weeks ago. Compared to most of the variants, it is a very streamlined experience, but there's still plenty of variety available. I recommend turning on the "forced descent" birth option (a.k.a. gameplay conduct), which forces you to not be able to replay levels. That makes the dungeon finite, but you still have plenty of room to abandon levels if things get hairy. For a sense of context, once you know how to play the game, it's pretty straightforward to win with forced-descent skip-2, which means that stairs take you down 2 levels instead of 1, so you only get half of the "regular" dungeon to work with. Really skilled players can win on forced-descent skip-4, IIRC, though you're much more reliant on RNG giving you the tools you need at that point.
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Mar 6, 2024 13:55
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Slice & Dice is entirely combat. It's exceedingly sleek and zippy in play. I cannot recommend it enough but it's definitely a very focused kind of game, if you're looking for storyline you're, uh, not going to find it in Slice & Dice
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Mar 6, 2024 13:58
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Slice and Dice is purestrain combat and not a deck or really even a dice builder. Your party of 5 is represented by a die that you can hold and reroll a certain amount of times. The game flow is encounter -> reward -> encounter until a boss. There is a surprising amount of tactical depth to the combat. When to hold, when to reroll, what enemies to target in what order, etc. Highly addicting and gets straight to the point which makes it very suitable for mobile. (I beg for it to come to iOS)
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Mar 6, 2024 14:00
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Serephina posted:I'm a philistine who doesn't buy much if it's not on Steam. So I've heard about this Slice 'n Dice game, but never played it. I hate deckbuilders and the like, but curious expedition's die rolls didn't bother me, so would this be a good fit? Is there more than just combat? The game is absolutely not a deckbuilder. Slice and Dice is all combat and decision making. Making the best of the dice you're dealt, maybe taking the risk of trying to roll them into something better. Thinking about how you can possibly use all your tools to get through each encounter while trying to keep all your dudes from dying. Deciding which party member to upgrade and which upgrade to give them, which items will synergize with what you've got going on. It is terrific in its simplicity. Here's a random recording from a streamer that I like who is good at describing his thought processes. The music on stream is not from the game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KYVZ2Zeowk
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Mar 6, 2024 14:31
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SettingSun posted:Slice and Dice is purestrain combat and not a deck or really even a dice builder. Your party of 5 is represented by a die that you can hold and reroll a certain amount of times. The game flow is encounter -> reward -> encounter until a boss. There is a surprising amount of tactical depth to the combat. When to hold, when to reroll, what enemies to target in what order, etc. Highly addicting and gets straight to the point which makes it very suitable for mobile. (I beg for it to come to iOS) iOS is maybe coming as well alongside all this as per the news of this Steam and 3.0 outright~
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Mar 6, 2024 14:35
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SettingSun posted:Slice and Dice is purestrain combat and not a deck or really even a dice builder. Your party of 5 is represented by a die that you can hold and reroll a certain amount of times. The game flow is encounter -> reward -> encounter until a boss. There is a surprising amount of tactical depth to the combat. When to hold, when to reroll, what enemies to target in what order, etc. Highly addicting and gets straight to the point which makes it very suitable for mobile. (I beg for it to come to iOS) Sorry if this is stupid, but this flow sounds like the FTL experience. (I ask because I might have a four-figure number of hours in FTL  ) Would you (or the thread in general) say it's similar?
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Mar 6, 2024 16:21
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Rappaport posted:Sorry if this is stupid, but this flow sounds like the FTL experience. (I ask because I might have a four-figure number of hours in FTL Honestly, kinda yeah. More streamlined due to no overworld / events. And with a gazillion of modifiers and alternative modes. Also, you may like Lonestar.
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Mar 6, 2024 16:28
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slice & dice owns and i am happy to re-buy it on steam
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Mar 6, 2024 16:41
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Angry Diplomat posted:Slice & Dice is entirely combat. It's exceedingly sleek and zippy in play. I cannot recommend it enough but it's definitely a very focused kind of game, if you're looking for storyline you're, uh, not going to find it in Slice & Dice It's also goon-made, if I'm not mistaken.
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Mar 6, 2024 16:56
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There's no path routing to think about and you do a lot less downtime reordering. You basically just alternate between picking a level up or an item after each fight, and then you might spend a bit of time shuffling your items around.
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Mar 6, 2024 16:57
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for some reason the PC version demo is only available on the itch.io page but here you go: https://tann.itch.io/slice-dice hope you don't have any deadlines coming up
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Mar 6, 2024 17:55
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Broken record disability blah blah blah but I wonder if the iOS version would work with Voiceover. Or if the PC version would allow for some kind of TTS support. Game seems perfect for that sort of thing and I’ve had it on my radar for a long while.
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Mar 6, 2024 18:05
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Ciaphas posted:slice & dice owns and i am happy to re-buy it on steam 
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Mar 6, 2024 21:00
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edit I'm dumb
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Mar 6, 2024 21:58
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For anyone on the fence about slice and dice, just get it. I took a moment to warm up to it, and then it quickly became one of my favorite games, period. Getting better at it and learning to abuse the undo is incredibly satisfying, and apart from the actual dice rolls you can tune every turn to absolute perfection (think Into the Breach).
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Mar 6, 2024 22:08
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Is undo abusable?
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Mar 6, 2024 22:52
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No Wave posted:Is undo abusable? I wouldn't say so, anything you can undo is deterministic. It basically just means the player can experiment and check multiple tactics without needing to hold it all in their head.
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Mar 6, 2024 23:03
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I've said it in here before but I will happily repeat: Slice and Dice is one of those rare triumphs of indie gaming. It's up there with Stardew Valley, though of course much smaller in scope. It is a masterpiece.
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Mar 6, 2024 23:45
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Isnt every good roguelike/roguelite a triumph of indie gaming?
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Mar 6, 2024 23:50
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No Wave posted:Isnt every good roguelike/roguelite a triumph of indie gaming? I mean there's a reason I still follow this thread
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Mar 7, 2024 00:04
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No Wave posted:Is undo abusable? Weird wording on my part - I just meant that the (unlimited per turn, except the actual rolls) undo gives you the opportunity to minmax like crazy and has given me some of my favorite moments of grabbing victory from the jaws of defeat. It's a game where sequencing is incredibly important.
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Mar 7, 2024 00:44
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Was curious, how do people feel about Cult of the Lamb nowadays? It got a new update and is on sale, so I was thinking of checking it out, but I was a bit worried since the combat seemed rather simple and I typically go to roguelikes for challenging combat, ala Hades, Curse of the Dead Gods, and so on. Than again, maybe that's what the whole cult management is there to make up for and I wouldn't mind it as much.
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Mar 7, 2024 00:49
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It's just ok.
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