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jjack229 posted:I agree, I think that dodging i-frames are bad design. Using a dodge to move out of the line of fire quickly (and possibly with a smaller hot box) makes sense, but staying in the line of fire and using the i-frames to have the attack phase through you does seem like just another version of parry. (Also, not that these games are based on realism, but why would why a giant warhammer pass through my characters body with no damage just because they are curled up?) I respectfully disagree; I think you need invincibility frames in most dodge moves to make up for the fact that games only have canned animations with hitboxes/hurtboxes that don't really match at the best of times. I get where you guys are coming from and to be honest I agree on paper: it can obviously be done wrong, and dodging forward into gunfire and not getting hurt is silly, but if done right the i-frames are there to compensate for the fact that you might have wanted to slightly twist your torso to dodge a swing but the only thing you could do is roll 10 feet to either side, plus even if you did move your hitbox would still have to be an upright rectangle so you're getting hit anyway. I think DMC5 is an amazing example of i-frames done right; it has very specific timing and the animations lend a lot of credibility to your avoiding damage so it looks pretty good (and feels amazing). I MAY be saying that mostly because FF7 Remake has a dodge with no i-frames and it's the worst feeling move in video game history. CordlessPen has a new favorite as of 21:13 on Mar 5, 2024 |
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Mar 5, 2024 20:05
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Skipping past all the compelling voice acting, quest writing and character development so I can gaze lovingly at the event log that says “the party gained 80 experience” and uninstalling the game as soon as the experience points stop
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Mar 5, 2024 20:14
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Owl Inspector posted:Skipping past all the compelling voice acting, quest writing and character development so I can gaze lovingly at the event log that says “the party gained 80 experience” and uninstalling the game as soon as the experience points stop If the characters have something important to say I can just read about it on the gamefaqs page as I look up where to go for the next step of the quest.
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Mar 5, 2024 20:34
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CordlessPen posted:I respectfully disagree; I think you need invincibility frames in most dodge moves to make up for the fact that games only have canned animations with hitboxes/hurtboxes that don't really match at the best of times. I get where you guys are coming from and to be honest I agree on paper: it can obviously be done wrong, and dodging forward into gunfire and not getting hurt is silly, but if done right the i-frames are there to compensate for the fact that you might have wanted to slightly twist your torso to dodge a swing but the only thing you could do is roll 10 feet to wither side, plus even if you did move your hitbox would still have to be an upright rectangle so you're getting hit anyway. I think DMC5 is an amazing example of i-frames done right; it has very specific timing and the animations lend a lot of credibility to your avoiding damage so it looks pretty good (and feels amazing). Agreed. Everything in games starts out as abstract and even when lots of realism is added in, combat and fighting is still very much just an approximation. Unless the dodge move is built only to function as a way to get out of range of an enemy's reach, it should have i-frames to account for how one dodge move is really supposed to represent many forms of avoiding an attack.
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Mar 5, 2024 20:50
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i-frames exist because it feels really good to avoid some 5,000 pound monster's broadsword attack with a slight dodge to the right, and nothing will ever change that.
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Mar 5, 2024 20:58
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I-frames are why I got so bored with Elden Ring's combat. Once I realized the only thing that mattered was exploiting those, every fight devolved to the same strategy of running next to the monster and bonking it until I see it start to do an attack, then I just press the dodge button and then run up next to the monster to continue bonking. I never felt like I was employing any strategy, just rote memorization of each move. Didn't matter if the attack tracked me or if the enemy rotated 180 degrees to hit me from nowhere, because I just press the invincibility button and continue bonking.
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Mar 5, 2024 21:07
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Someone should make a nicer looking version of Progress Quest so I can accrue that sweet sweet EXP without getting stopped 20 minutes - 3 hours by a cutscene or dragged into a 3 minute side quest conversation.
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Mar 5, 2024 21:09
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CordlessPen posted:I respectfully disagree; I think you need invincibility frames in most dodge moves to make up for the fact that games only have canned animations with hitboxes/hurtboxes that don't really match at the best of times. I get where you guys are coming from and to be honest I agree on paper: it can obviously be done wrong, and dodging forward into gunfire and not getting hurt is silly, but if done right the i-frames are there to compensate for the fact that you might have wanted to slightly twist your torso to dodge a swing but the only thing you could do is roll 10 feet to either side, plus even if you did move your hitbox would still have to be an upright rectangle so you're getting hit anyway. e: there will also be a larger hitsphere which triggers a badass animation of you backflipping off the attack instead of taking damage. Splicer has a new favorite as of 22:20 on Mar 5, 2024 |
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Mar 5, 2024 22:17
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CordlessPen posted:I respectfully disagree; I think you need invincibility frames in most dodge moves to make up for the fact that games only have canned animations with hitboxes/hurtboxes that don't really match at the best of times. I get where you guys are coming from and to be honest I agree on paper: it can obviously be done wrong, and dodging forward into gunfire and not getting hurt is silly, but if done right the i-frames are there to compensate for the fact that you might have wanted to slightly twist your torso to dodge a swing but the only thing you could do is roll 10 feet to either side, plus even if you did move your hitbox would still have to be an upright rectangle so you're getting hit anyway. I think DMC5 is an amazing example of i-frames done right; it has very specific timing and the animations lend a lot of credibility to your avoiding damage so it looks pretty good (and feels amazing). I can see the argument for i-frames allowing the character to avoid a hit that they could realistically avoid in the context of the game (like dodging a sword) but can't be easily be animated. Part of my issue is when it allows avoiding being hit by something that they should not be able to avoid (e.g. firebreath from a dragon or an explosion, where the character has not moved out of range of the attack, they are just invincible as the attack passes through them). The not being "realistic" part makes it seem silly, but my actual issue is that it allows developers to go down the path of giving monsters attacks that are unavoidable except for using dodge i-frames. It starts to feel almost like a QTE without an onscreen prompt; you have to hit a specific button at a specific time or you take massive damage. I bought the FF7 Remake the other week when it was on sale and plan to get to it soon, so I maybe I will be singing a different tune once I try that.
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Mar 5, 2024 23:55
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The FF7 Remakes have absolute dogshit dodges, and it's fuckin remarkable how it looks like a normal dodge, but it's only a maneuver to get hit in the face with
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Mar 6, 2024 00:25
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Leave posted:The FF7 Remakes have absolute dogshit dodges, and it's fuckin remarkable how it looks like a normal dodge, but it's only a maneuver to get hit in the face with On-brand for Cloud.
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Mar 6, 2024 02:33
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Tooling around in Soulstone Survivors and I’m getting to the point where I’m at curse level 3 or 4. At this point bosses are becoming tricky not because of their damage or HP, but because I can’t really hit them all that consistently. I’m using the auto-aim mode that targets the closest enemy, but there are so many enemies with so much hp that you need to get right up next to to boss to hit them with your mono-directional stuff. I’m on a laptop so manual aiming is awkward and getting close to the boss is always a good way to get hit.
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Mar 6, 2024 03:23
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Bifner McDoogle posted:It actually rules that a thorough player can hit lvl 12 early in act 3, because it means there is a huge chunk of the game where the player can feel free to respec their character and experiment with the insane build variety. If you've kept your eyes peeled you'll probably have collected a bunch of armor sets for different builds. It is extremely cool to be able to try them out without needing to dedicate myself to another playthrough. I respecced my whole party like four times in act 3, except the oathbreaker paladin which is a pain in the rear end to respec if you want them to stay an oathbreaker because you have to pay to unbreak your oath, respec, then commit another crime which depending on your oath can vary from simple thievery to murdering the wrong type of dude or not murdering the right type of dude. Also during my wrap-up I killed the oathbreaker knight guy just to see if you could get his armour (you can't, but IIRC a similar looking set is scattered across the game as a grey trash tier set of items.) and unsurprisingly once you do that you can't unbreak your oath anymore. The hitboxes being fucky was an issue up to when I finished the game though, sometimes it was insanely hard to just click on the spot you wanted when trying to move or attack and poo poo, I hope the updates have fixed that up. Morpheus posted:I-frames are why I got so bored with Elden Ring's combat. Once I realized the only thing that mattered was exploiting those, every fight devolved to the same strategy of running next to the monster and bonking it until I see it start to do an attack, then I just press the dodge button and then run up next to the monster to continue bonking. I never felt like I was employing any strategy, just rote memorization of each move. Didn't matter if the attack tracked me or if the enemy rotated 180 degrees to hit me from nowhere, because I just press the invincibility button and continue bonking. While the dodging was always like that in the souls games, it got noticeably more crazy in Dark Souls 3 where stamina regen made it so you could just kind of dodge forever basically, and that carried over to elden ring for sure. It did, however, introduce a new PVP playstyle where you could just dodge roll until the invader timed out and they got mad about it.
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Mar 6, 2024 03:28
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Leave posted:The FF7 Remakes have absolute dogshit dodges, and it's fuckin remarkable how it looks like a normal dodge, but it's only a maneuver to get hit in the face with FF7R mostly expects you to block except for abilities that have a big windup or explicitly have the big 'unblockable' alert.
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Mar 6, 2024 06:41
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FYI they greatly increased the dodge animation speed in FF7 Rebirth but it's only meant for repositioning and dodging unblockables and AOE attacks like in FF14 for example. Some enemies become vulnerable to stagger if you dodge their unblockables but it's not like Dark Souls where you roll into enemies. Blocking is still your primary defence and perfect blocking nullifies damage 100% to emphasize this. WaltherFeng has a new favorite as of 08:01 on Mar 6, 2024 |
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Mar 6, 2024 07:59
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jjack229 posted:I can see the argument for i-frames allowing the character to avoid a hit that they could realistically avoid in the context of the game (like dodging a sword) but can't be easily be animated. Part of my issue is when it allows avoiding being hit by something that they should not be able to avoid (e.g. firebreath from a dragon or an explosion, where the character has not moved out of range of the attack, they are just invincible as the attack passes through them). The not being "realistic" part makes it seem silly, but my actual issue is that it allows developers to go down the path of giving monsters attacks that are unavoidable except for using dodge i-frames. It starts to feel almost like a QTE without an onscreen prompt; you have to hit a specific button at a specific time or you take massive damage. I'm not sure how one dude with a short sword would ever kill a fire breathing dragon outside of that one ds3 gimmick boss. Even something like the taurus demon. Just turning around normally and brushing the player character would be enough to knock down or outright kill the player.
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Mar 6, 2024 09:09
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A sense of growing character strength is a pretty fundamental part of how video games do RPGs so it isn't surprising that some people dislike a low level cap. Me, it's me, I'm some people.
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Mar 6, 2024 10:47
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I picked up Blood West because it calls itself an immersive stealth FPS. It's pretty good! The level design is fun, the stealth works well most of the time, and your direct combat options, while powerful, are limited enough that it's satisfying to use stealth to get rid of stuff efficiently. And then it added a bunch of monsters that you cannot stealth-kill because they're wearing outhouses. And big monsters that just sort of laugh at the backstab you just spent minutes slowly sneaking around for and then kill you in two hits. Hey, guess what mechanic just completely isn't involved in fighting the first real boss? Guess what's just a big stupid firefight in a big flat arena, hope you didn't bring your weak stealth weapons you idiot? Why do stealth games keep having sections without stealth? It's always the worst poo poo, in exactly the way stealth sections in non-stealth games are. I will not be finishing Blood West.
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Mar 6, 2024 11:40
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Trick Question posted:And then it added a bunch of monsters that you cannot stealth-kill because they're wearing outhouses. And big monsters that just sort of laugh at the backstab you just spent minutes slowly sneaking around for and then kill you in two hits. I had similar stealth frustration with rear end creed Odyssey. Spend ages sneaking around getting in position to kill someone and OOPS your gear ain't good enough now you get to fight a whole fort
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Mar 6, 2024 12:15
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There's a point in Odyssey where it becomes easier to fight the entire fort instead of being stealthy
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Mar 6, 2024 12:25
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Late game "stealth" is ludicrously overpowered in AC:Odyssey because if you spec and gear for it you get a button that lets you teleport around and kill 5 people before they can react for basically no resources. It's not mechanically interesting but it is strong.
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Mar 6, 2024 12:41
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Add to that the ability that removes corpses and you can basically kill a fort in the blink of an eye without anyone knowing you were there. Thread appropriate: I don't like the loot system in AC Odyssey. It's just a hassle to have a flood of weapons and armor, especially once you've found stuff you like and fits your playstyle.
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Mar 6, 2024 13:28
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Ms Adequate posted:A sense of growing character strength is a pretty fundamental part of how video games do RPGs so it isn't surprising that some people dislike a low level cap. Yeah but like exquisite tea said, the level cap isn't actually where you stop growing more powerful because there's sick loot to be found after that. The problem is what constitutes a low level because I imagine many players aren't hitting the cap until late in Act 3, if at all, if they aren't as completionist as others.
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Mar 6, 2024 14:19
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Adventures in D&D 5e don't often go above level 12, so it's not surprising that BG3 follows suit. Things start to get a little out of hand regarding player abilities and I imagine it'd be hard to keep that in hand in a video game context. I'm someone who hates reaching the max level and getting nothing to show for it - Horizon, Spider-Man 2, those kinds of open-world games where doing stuff feels a little hollow without reward from it. But in BG3 the naturally low max level, fancy equipment, combined with narrative rewards makes me feel fine with hitting max. It's not like there are really random fights scattered around with no purpose except to feed you xp. I do kind of wish that max level was reached just a little further into Act 3, rather than near the beginning like where I hit it, but, eh.
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Mar 6, 2024 14:33
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Philippe posted:Add to that the ability that removes corpses and you can basically kill a fort in the blink of an eye without anyone knowing you were there. Yeah the gear system sucks so bad, particularly with the levelling system
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Mar 6, 2024 16:15
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Splicer posted:Sounds like a no-win situation. Have you considered cheating? A real Kobyashi-Mariner situation
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Mar 6, 2024 17:39
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Morpheus posted:I-frames are why I got so bored with Elden Ring's combat. Once I realized the only thing that mattered was exploiting those, every fight devolved to the same strategy of running next to the monster and bonking it until I see it start to do an attack, then I just press the dodge button and then run up next to the monster to continue bonking. I never felt like I was employing any strategy, just rote memorization of each move. Didn't matter if the attack tracked me or if the enemy rotated 180 degrees to hit me from nowhere, because I just press the invincibility button and continue bonking. Big same for me on that. Towards the last third of the game I'd gotten pretty bored with the combat and just cheated myself a bunch of respec materials to try out all the weapon types I hadn't until then, and was pretty disappointed to find that the choice of build/weapon made very little difference in how I'd have to approach a fight. Against any non-trash enemy the (melee) combat always boiled down learning the enemy moveset by heart, hitting the dodge at the right point, and then getting some damage in during their recovery. Whether that damage is then delivered via a few quick spear stabs or a big hammer bonk felt like a borderline cosmetic difference.
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Mar 6, 2024 18:17
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Returnal: Been playing through it with a friend, finally found some weapons I actually like in act 2 and 3. Finished act 3, and... that's it? No indication of how to proceed whatsoever. I can tell it's not the end of the game, but I have no idea how to proceed. We look it, up, and You have to find 6 individual items, hidden randomly with one in each biome, and then kill the final boss again to unlock the ending. These items don't spawn unless you've done everything you can in the Old House, which can't be done in co-op. Guess we're not finishing that game anytime soon.
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Mar 6, 2024 23:09
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Returnal had so many cool ideas and tight minute-to-minute gameplay coupled with the core problem of being unfun as a whole.
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Mar 6, 2024 23:12
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I complained about the weapons all being unfun to use months ago in the thread, and with a couple of exceptions I'll stick by that. the pylon driver is hilarious and a good time, the sticky grenade launcher (why are there like four different grenade launchers?) was alright, and the boomerang gun was neat in concept but absolute trash to use against bosses. Most of the enemies are perfectly fine, with a few exceptions - the ones that can teleport behind you with no warning, and the ones with those goddamn AOE rings that pass through all terrain. They like to spam them, too. There's a giant ball enemy that I dreaded running into because it was just a question of if I could shoot it from far enough away that it couldn't spam the entire room with circles of pain. EDIT: And the active item that disables all turrets in an area doesn't affect the giant eye laser turrets, for some reason. Which is a shame, because normal turrets are literally never a threat.
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Mar 6, 2024 23:16
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Morpheus posted:Adventures in D&D 5e don't often go above level 12, so it's not surprising that BG3 follows suit. Things start to get a little out of hand regarding player abilities and I imagine it'd be hard to keep that in hand in a video game context. they could have done some compromise method with diminishing returns, where xp turns into extra feats beyond level 12 or something
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Mar 6, 2024 23:19
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Less Fat Luke posted:Returnal had so many cool ideas and tight minute-to-minute gameplay coupled with the core problem of being unfun as a whole. It has the problem where… at the very least the early maps, possibly the whole game suck at telegraphing the way forward so you just feel lost a lot of the time. It nails the mood/atmosphere but the navigation reminded me of Dark Forces II.
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Mar 7, 2024 00:00
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I think whoever added the glider to Horizon Forbidden West forgot to tell the rest of the development team. None of the platforming or exploring utilizes it. The cliffs still have repel points from the first game like I'm not just going to jump off and glide towards the next point of interest. I was just exploring a cave and Aloy said out loud, "maybe if i jump far enough, I can hookshot my way to that ledge." Then I proceeded to glide to the ledge
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Mar 7, 2024 04:45
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Aloy giving the player hints out loud is the thing that turned me off the first horizon. I'll probably finish em both one day BC the story seems dope and a lot of the gameplay issues I have with them are kind of my issue rather than an endemic problem but it's incredibly immersion breaking for me to just have aloy think out loud about what I should be doing and imo shows a lack of faith in their game design
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Mar 7, 2024 07:47
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Jezza of OZPOS posted:Aloy giving the player hints out loud is the thing that turned me off the first horizon. I'll probably finish em both one day BC the story seems dope and a lot of the gameplay issues I have with them are kind of my issue rather than an endemic problem but it's incredibly immersion breaking for me to just have aloy think out loud about what I should be doing and imo shows a lack of faith in their game design Me too but these AAA games are made for people who might not have played any videogame before in their life. A lot of stuff is "gamer institutional knowledge" and some people need to be literally told what the game is and what's the next set of steps to perform.
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Mar 7, 2024 08:16
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Lobok posted:Yeah but like exquisite tea said, the level cap isn't actually where you stop growing more powerful because there's sick loot to be found after that. The problem is what constitutes a low level because I imagine many players aren't hitting the cap until late in Act 3, if at all, if they aren't as completionist as others. Unfortunately I really don't like gearing as the primary means of progression, not sure why but I have never vibed with it. It's a big part of why I'm always rerolling in ARPGs, endgame is rarely something I bother with in an MMO, and I straight up dislike the Monster Hunter series even though I recognize its quality. Big thing that drags games down consistently for me (but BG3 is a rare case where the game is strong enough that I don't mind) On the other hand give me something where the level cap is stupid high or essentially infinite and I'm as happy as a pig in poo poo. Elder Scrolls, Star Ocean 2, Diablo 3, that's crack for me. E; Vic posted:Me too but these AAA games are made for people who might not have played any videogame before in their life. They should make it a button press imo, if you aren't seeing the solution hit it and Aloy (or Kratos or Lara or whoever) will pipe up. Then everyone gets to control for themselves if and when they chime in with hints. Ms Adequate has a new favorite as of 08:53 on Mar 7, 2024 |
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Mar 7, 2024 08:49
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Vic posted:Me too but these AAA games are made for people who might not have played any videogame before in their life. I genuinely like that game devs account for the fact that ANY game can be someone’s first, let alone someone’s first open world stealth game like AAA game Horizon can be, but at the same time they can just relegate that poo poo to a difficulty setting.
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Mar 7, 2024 10:30
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I somehow managed to get turned around in ff16 a LOT so I made a lot of use of the press r3 to show you where to go, but it's just annoying to have it pop off constantly
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Mar 7, 2024 10:49
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BioEnchanted posted:The level design's not too bad, it's kind of fun to explore, but the Pacific Island levels in Tomb Raider 3 are super racist. One of the most cringe levels in video game history. The native "savages" are just defending their territory with Spears and you, a British person, are tasked with machine gunning them dead for this offense.
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Mar 7, 2024 15:52
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Drunk Nerds posted:One of the most cringe levels in video game history. The native "savages" are just defending their territory with Spears and you, a British person, are tasked with machine gunning them dead for this offense* *and stealing their priceless artefacts! probably the most accurate depiction of british archaeology tbh
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Mar 7, 2024 16:05
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