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it's just another battle in the war between the two sides of I want everyone to get paid so much money regardless of how it impacts other promotions/match quality vs I don't want the people I like to watch go to companies I don't like to watch with some interesting obesity and nationalism thrown in the mix
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Mar 5, 2024 18:19
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We've come so far from earlier in the page when we talking about the EXY logo
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Mar 5, 2024 18:21
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Please don't resort to weird personal attacks over differing pro wrestling opinions, especially bizarre bodyshaming. Very weird stuff, but especially in this thread. Seeing Maki Itoh live was a highlight of my last year. I want to see more cool wrestlers outside of their home promotions because that is fun to me.
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Mar 5, 2024 18:24
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ItohRespectArmy posted:i dont have a problem with mania weekend stuff, i just find the nasuating obsession with people saying that wrestlers need to be working for the 2 most boring companies in the world tiring, regardless of which they are stunting for OK that's fair but it's not wrong to assume that most wrestlers, joshi or otherwise, want to make the most money and sell the most merch and get as much exposure as they can to a large audience. If they want to work GCW or Defy or whatever then cool let them do whatever. I don't think anyone is opposed to that But it's also not wrong for people who like AEW and joshi to want dream matches between their favorite promotions
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Mar 5, 2024 18:25
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Erin M. Fiasco posted:I love Ryo Mizunami and I watch lots of GanJo and TJPW shows and I still also think it would be sick and cool if Ryo Mizunami got a big ol' entrance on an AEW show and lots more people saw how cool Ryo Mizunami is. I like showing people my fav wrestlers and I like seeing my fav wrestlers wrestle. I think it would be cool if I got to see a big STARDOM name at a local indy also, or if one showed up to wrestle Athena. Peace and love. I mean yeah, but it'd be nicer still if people would just watch them in the promotion I like rather than the promotion I don't really have time to watch. I think more people should see & appreciate how great Yuma Anzai is (though I'd be red hot nude & mad if he went to do Mania weekend because it's usually during the Champion Carnival tournament but that's a different issue), but I certainly don't want him leaving All Japan. Because he rips in All Japan. And All Japan rips. So I can understand why a TJPW head would feel passionate about TJPW people not leaving TJPW, especially after the departure of Yuka Sakazaki & her absence from TV since then. Which probably isn't by AEW's choice & I assume is a visa issue but still a loving bummer. The same poo poo happened to lucha in the '90s; the peso got devalued, & suddenly instead of using Chris Jericho in Arena Mexico all these luchadores end up on US TV. Where they generally didn't get used nearly as well as they would have in CMLL/AAA/whatever. Obviously you have exceptions like Eddy & Rey, but if you're a mid 90s lucha fan you might be a bit annoyed even if it is entirely rational for the wrestlers to go work for WCW. But obviously others got to see someone like La Parka or Super Calo or Juvy doing poo poo they hadn't seen before & having their minds blown & it probably ended up increasing the number of lucha fans in America in the mid to long-term (I'm assuming here, not doing any actual research). Nobody is wrong here, well, the person yelling about obese fans & poo poo obviously comes off as unhinged. But other than that it's just a matter of taste & perspective. Do think that wrestlers doing Mania weekend is an entirely separate issue though. That just makes sense for everyone involved, promoters & wrestlers. If letting someone take 2-3 weeks in America a year makes it easier to keep them under contract, do it.
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Mar 5, 2024 18:33
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Wrestle Universe got me back full time into enjoying wrestling between TJPW and DDT. I do also wish people would watch those feds. My favorite championship match of last year was MIZUKI vs. Maki Itoh and it didn't even crack MOTYC status here. I get it. You want people to see how cool the thing you like is, and maybe you start seeing this Other Thing as the enemy for one reason or another. It's a deeply unhealthy way to engage with pro wrestling, but it's an understandable human reaction. Simultaneously, sure, maybe Athena vs. Miyu Yamashita or Miyu's PW Revolver matches aren't the perfect Miyu Match for a diehard, but I do think that exposing a cool wrestler to a big audience is a huge part of getting people to check out other feds if they are a curious person. I dunno, it's nuanced.
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Mar 5, 2024 18:46
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The lady who runs spark has to be hyped out of her gourd with this windfall Re:Joshi imports: I'm more a fan of these short trips, as the matches on home turf tend to be much better, and as stated, no US TV companies (maybe impact? I don't watch, it's in the RoH time slot) will give women the time they need to develop a healthy wrestling ecosystem. However, getting the opportunity to meet Miu Watanabe and buy one of her crazy rear end drawings on a shirt was the highlight of last year for me, and if I was any closer I'd be hitting up Philly
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Mar 5, 2024 18:47
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I'm very uninterested in current NJPW but don't want to just watch AEW even though I do enjoy it because I do love the Japanese style of wrestling a lot. I'd like to get into more women's wrestling - is Wrestle Universe what I want to sub to?
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Mar 5, 2024 18:50
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Wrestle Universe = TJPW, soon Senjo Stardom world = Stardom There's streaming services for the smaller joshi companies too but realistically everyone just watches them on VK W-U is definitely the best bang for buck streaming service though, with DDT, and allegedly there are people who exist that enjoy NOAH
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Mar 5, 2024 18:52
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Mr E posted:I'm very uninterested in current NJPW but don't want to just watch AEW even though I do enjoy it because I do love the Japanese style of wrestling a lot. I'd like to get into more women's wrestling - is Wrestle Universe what I want to sub to? Absolutely, it's one of the best deals in wrestling. Less than $10 a month, four promotions (with three more coming soon!), tons of shows both live and taped, and a big backlog too. Ganbare Pro is really cool and understated - their GanJo shows often have really cool talent booked like Unagi Sayaka who ownssss
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Mar 5, 2024 18:54
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Wrestle Universe is great value in general, in terms of women's wrestling it has: TJPW: Good vibes, less hard hitting than Stardom but usually very solid matches on top of the card GanJo: Very Indy and runs somewhat infrequently, their core roster is not fantastic on the whole and they bring in freelancers to cover the gaps in cards Also it's been announced that they'll be starting to cover Sendai Girl, which has a tiny roster but includes Chihiro Hashimoto who is definitely in the running for best (women's) wrestler in the world, her match with Sareee is my current favourite this year
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Mar 5, 2024 18:57
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Mr E posted:I'm very uninterested in current NJPW but don't want to just watch AEW even though I do enjoy it because I do love the Japanese style of wrestling a lot. I'd like to get into more women's wrestling - is Wrestle Universe what I want to sub to?
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Mar 5, 2024 19:00
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If you like wrestling wrestling you'll have more fun watching Stardom IMO. TJPW is like DDT where most of the card is comedy and character stuff with maybe one or two matches being actually hard-hitting work rate type deals. If you like watching fun characters work their gimmicks then TJPW is quite good. And as mentioned a Wrestle Universe sub gets you a whole lot more promotions to watch than Stardom World. Stardom is closer to what I like with usually harder hitting matches and a lot of good talent. Besides those two promotions your best bet is to look on Cagematch and find a show that Sareee, Mio Momono, or Chihiro Hashimoto wrestled on. They're the best imo who aren't on TJPW or Stardom. And then you can find people from those shows or even start following Sendai and Marvelous or whatever if you can figure out Nico Nico
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Mar 5, 2024 19:09
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Mio Momono rules so much
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Mar 5, 2024 19:11
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 still cant believe this is real
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Mar 5, 2024 19:13
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yea ok posted:
God bless us all
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Mar 5, 2024 19:15
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it is possible for all of these to be true: * wrestling is a miserable loving profession and it's good for workers involved in it to get as much money for their likely-short careers as possible * it's neat for popular joshi wrestlers to pop up in big american companies so american wrestling fans can see them live more easily and for the best wrestlers to be able to perform on the largest stages to the largest crowds * wwe and aew both have consistently squandered the potential of joshi wrestlers (and women's wrestlers in general) as a wrestling fan with access to streaming services for joshi promotions, it is often disappointing to see a talented wrestler get signed to aew or wwe due to the loss of potentially great matches and storylines in their original promotions (or other small promotions). however, it is completely understandable that a wrestler would like to get paid the maximum amount of money for the difficult and dangerous work they do to support themselves and their families e;f;b i missed forkboy's post
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Mar 5, 2024 19:45
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Elephant Ambush posted:OK that's fair but it's not wrong to assume that most wrestlers, joshi or otherwise, want to make the most money and sell the most merch and get as much exposure as they can to a large audience. If they want to work GCW or Defy or whatever then cool let them do whatever. I don't think anyone is opposed to that Here is the thing, you as a poster on the internet do not have to be simperingly backing every business decision a wrestler you appreciate the work of. You do not have to hand it to anyone and your displeasure can be expressed without going "aw shucks, I just want them to make the right decision for themselves." It's a dumb parasocial thing to care about a performer moving their work into a place you are not going to be experiencing. You can just be annoyed that you are not going to be watching that wrestler anymore. Here is an example that dosen't involve a western promotion, when Mirai started working for TJPW I thought she was excellent. Really enjoyed the poo poo she did and how she was developing as a talent. When she jumped to Stardom, I was annoyed because this meant I would not see her wrestle again. It does me no good to know that Mirai is having a more fulfilling experience or getting paid better because I am no longer along for the ride. But that's life. I'm not going to get super mad about it, but I am going to strategically deploy this anecdote of my being annoyed that someone jumped to try and explain to you why your "well they are trying to make the right decision for them" is irrelevant. Elephant Ambush posted:But it's also not wrong for people who like AEW and joshi to want dream matches between their favorite promotions It's actually extremely annoying to salivate about AEW decisions in threads not about AEW.
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Mar 5, 2024 19:46
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karmicknight posted:Here is the thing, you as a poster on the internet do not have to be simperingly backing every business decision a wrestler you appreciate the work of. You do not have to hand it to anyone and your displeasure can be expressed without going "aw shucks, I just want them to make the right decision for themselves." It's a dumb parasocial thing to care about a performer moving their work into a place you are not going to be experiencing. You can just be annoyed that you are not going to be watching that wrestler anymore. First of all, you have been weirdly and unnecessarily hostile to people itt for a while now and I have no idea why Second, in a world where pro wrestlers have been screwed over by promoters forever, there is nothing wrong with wanting my favorite wrestlers to do well and it's very weird of you to just start calling everyone a simp for no reason As for AEW, I only mentioned it because it's a promotion I like, and yes I agree with all the criticism they get about their women's division. Pretend I said GCW or EVE then. The point is that I want my favorite wrestlers to be successful and happy, and not because of some weird parasocial thing you insist on. And yes I would also like the opportunity to see them perform live in my country. That doesn't mean I want AEW or WWE to sign them all full time. Nobody has said that itt. We're talking about talent exchanges which is something that's been done forever But all of a sudden we have you and ITA doing what appears to be gatekeeping and insisting that joshi should stay in joshi promotions regardless of what they personally want to do, and this whole thing started by someone explaining that Rossy was probably blocking Stardom talent from working outside of Japan even though they've been saying that they want to, which was Bad
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Mar 5, 2024 20:08
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karmicknight posted:snip I sure hope you're not saying that you have literally zero regard for the well-being or happiness of the performers you enjoy, because that's definitely how you're coming across. Of course people are within their rights to just shrug and move on if a wrestler goes to a promotion they don't want to follow, but to say it's parasocial to care even the slightest bit about their situation makes it seem as though you don't even see the people you're talking about as human.
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Mar 5, 2024 20:08
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karmicknight posted:Here is the thing, you as a poster on the internet do not have to be simperingly backing every business decision a wrestler you appreciate the work of. You do not have to hand it to anyone and your displeasure can be expressed without going "aw shucks, I just want them to make the right decision for themselves." It's a dumb parasocial thing to care about a performer moving their work into a place you are not going to be experiencing. You can just be annoyed that you are not going to be watching that wrestler anymore. This feels like a lot of words to say that you want the thing you want and everyone explaining why it's not happening and why it's good for the wrestlers is wrong because you want the thing you want. Really everytime it comes up this whole discussion seems to be: "They should wrestle in my favorite promotion  ""Well they don't for reasons" "Ok first off they should wrestle in my favorite promotion and second off what you're doing is terrible because..." Gumball Gumption fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Mar 5, 2024 |
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Mar 5, 2024 20:14
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Elephant Ambush posted:But all of a sudden we have you and ITA doing what appears to be gatekeeping and insisting that joshi should stay in joshi promotions regardless of what they personally want to do, and this whole thing started by someone explaining that Rossy was probably blocking Stardom talent from working outside of Japan even though they've been saying that they want to, which was Bad My point was about how wrestlers moving promotions is a normal part of doing business, but you do not have to force yourself into a perspective where you are happy about it. lmao. Yes, my reaction to a decision someone else made about their career means that I do not think wrestlers are human. That is what accepting their agency but not being happy about it means. You are very smart.
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Mar 5, 2024 20:21
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If you really wanna watch someone you'll probably track their matches down. Arguing about someone wanting such and such to wrestle for the show they watch is boring. You could be watching a Mio Momono match instead. Or a Natsupoi match. Or a Sareee match.
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Mar 5, 2024 20:30
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Gumball Gumption posted:This feels like a lot of words to say that you want the thing you want and everyone explaining why it's not happening and why it's good for the wrestlers is wrong because you want the thing you want. I mean, to a certain extent, yeah. My point is more broadly that when a wrestler moves on from a promotion, you as a poster on the SomethingAwful forums can simply be sad or mad about it in the immediate aftermath because you are not materially affecting or affected by the wrestler's decision. You just watch them wrestle.
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Mar 5, 2024 20:33
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alrighty then
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Mar 5, 2024 20:35
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And now for something completely different. A reminder that Women Of Wrestling is a thing. The airing episodes are about to hit the point when I attended the tapings (12/13 & 12/14) since the trios tournament is going out either this weekend or next weekend most likely; (because I know who wins) that episode is going to be very interesting to watch. I found a podcast (that is also posted on youtube, which includes clips when relevant it seems) that talks about WOW, it's a week behind airing episodes and it's really honest about the production, though it sounds like some other promotions are lightly mentioned as well: https://wpnwrestling.com/ EvilMoFo fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Mar 5, 2024 |
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Mar 5, 2024 20:36
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karmicknight posted:I mean, to a certain extent, yeah. My point is more broadly that when a wrestler moves on from a promotion, you as a poster on the SomethingAwful forums can simply be sad or mad about it in the immediate aftermath because you are not materially affecting or affected by the wrestler's decision. You just watch them wrestle. Ok. I'll just add you can also simply be happy about it and you're in a public forum so of course people will react and respond
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Mar 5, 2024 20:41
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It's practically a forum meme to say someone has retired once they go to the wwe. It seems a bit precious on the somethingawful forums of all places to object to this sort of rhetoric. For me once a wrestler leaves japan I'm pretty unlikely to watch them. Okada is possibly my favourite wrestler ever and I'm not going to watch him in aew. There is only so many hours in the day and it's just easier for me in Australia to watch Japanese wrestling. Mirai is actually a good example because she spoke about why she left tjpw. She left outright for money. She said that she had to work a part time job with tjpw where stardom would pay her enough to wrestle full time. Nobody in the world could possibly object to that. They might think jesus cyberagent pull out the wallet and get your talent making enough to live but nobody would object to her going But there are a lot of reasons why someone might not like stardom either. It might be how difficult it is to follow. It might be dislike of Rossys vision of womens wrestling and how annoying those victory laps by Fumi Saito were the moment he got corporate funding (that's why stardom continuing along without him successfully is an extremely funny outcome), it might be a dislike of bushiroad itself and the aggressive way they do business and it might just be as simple a dislike of the style. Japanese wrestling is in an extremely precarious state. Joshi wrestling even more so. It's only natural for fans to worry about these external threats on top of the already existing issues.
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Mar 5, 2024 22:00
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karmicknight posted:I mean, to a certain extent, yeah. My point is more broadly that when a wrestler moves on from a promotion, you as a poster on the SomethingAwful forums can simply be sad or mad about it in the immediate aftermath because you are not materially affecting or affected by the wrestler's decision. You just watch them wrestle. I bow to your rationality and logic, goon sir
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Mar 5, 2024 22:13
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karmicknight posted:My point was about how wrestlers moving promotions is a normal part of doing business, but you do not have to force yourself into a perspective where you are happy about it. karmicknight posted:It does me no good to know that Mirai is having a more fulfilling experience or getting paid better because I am no longer along for the ride. dunno how the gently caress else this is supposed to be interpreted, clearly I'm in the wrong for going with a plain-language reading of your borderline sociopathic nonsense
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Mar 5, 2024 22:56
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Isn't that pretty much the exact same stance we all take when someone retires to WWE to make slom though
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Mar 5, 2024 23:40
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Barry Bluejeans posted:dunno how the gently caress else this is supposed to be interpreted, clearly I'm in the wrong for going with a plain-language reading of your borderline sociopathic nonsense You could try reading it with a modicum of charity to the OP rather than being repeatedly hostile and accusing someone of being a sociopath 
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Mar 6, 2024 00:28
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That street goes both ways imo
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Mar 6, 2024 00:32
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forkboy84 posted:I mean yeah, but it'd be nicer still if people would just watch them in the promotion I like rather than the promotion I don't really have time to watch. I entirely agree with this statement. It's just that what we're referring to as "the promotion I like" and "the promotion I don't have time to watch" are very different.
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Mar 6, 2024 00:37
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More nuanced version: it's fine, whatever promotion you like, to lament when you won't get to see a competitor you like any more. I miss Nakajima in Noah. I could watch him in ajpw but I barely have time to watch the wrestling I do watch. It's less fine when that lament twists into venom towards the company where your guy or girl went or their fans. This does not preclude venom towards a company for having a track record of being lovely.
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Mar 6, 2024 00:45
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Simping aint easy
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Mar 6, 2024 01:50
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I'm going to ignore the weird posts before and after my last post and just say thanks for the breakdowns on Wrestling Universe & Stardom, I think I'll sub to both probably since I recently stopped subbing to all other streaming services.
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Mar 6, 2024 02:53
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Good choice, brother E. Stardom-world puts shows up on a ~3 day delay i don't remember if anyone mentioned that
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Mar 6, 2024 02:55
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Hell yeah dude, I hope you watch lots of good wrestling and talk about it online.
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Mar 6, 2024 03:06
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Mr E posted:I'm going to ignore the weird posts before and after my last post and just say thanks for the breakdowns on Wrestling Universe & Stardom, I think I'll sub to both probably since I recently stopped subbing to all other streaming services. WU is such an insane value. The price went up recently (to 1298 yen), but I don't think I've seen anyone complain, because with how weak the yen is, the price it went up to in USD is still basically the same price as the original price (which was 900 yen, so then and now it's still under $9) people were paying back when they made the changeover from the original site to Wrestle Universe, and on top of that, the announcement of the price increase came with an announcement that they were adding content from Michinoku, Zero1, and Sendai Girls, and Ganbare Pro content will continue to be available on Wrestle Universe (Ganbare Pro announced recently that they were leaving the CyberFight company to become independent, so there were questions as to what would happen with their content). There's also a bunch of totally random other stuff on there if you want to poke around (like GCW shows, or AEW matches that have CyberFight wrestlers in them that have Japanese commentary added, or Gatoh Move shows). I think some of the really weird stuff (like Kota Ibushi fighting room by room through a condemned apartment building) haven't quite made it over from the old site though. I like WU because it's really easy to just watch the live shows when they're being streamed live.
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Mar 6, 2024 03:19
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