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Could not see about 40% of this episode because I watched it during the day in my very sunny apartment lol I like that Blackthorne is supposed to be like, conversational in Portuguese yet apparently knows the equivalent to terms like slatterns and trollops and buggery.
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Mar 6, 2024 01:06
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Great episode except one thing made me squint Mariko taking up a pole blade and killing three assailants with it
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Mar 6, 2024 01:10
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grobbo posted:
I dunno, that's kind of what Blackthorne's presence represents -- he's telling the Japanese that there's a bunch of other seafaring nations out there, and his country is at war with the Portuguese. I dunno how the letter of 1600s Japanese law works but he might be able to make that case to the lords, that he's just prosecuting his nation's wars. If they weren't already set on killing him for one reason or another, anyway. And that was my read too. In fact, I was like "really? is that a good career move right now?" when he starts up with the simple sailor bit. Like obviously you don't need to tell him that, your position is precarious enough as it is. Don't wanna get boiled, do you?
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Mar 6, 2024 01:14
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Henchman of Santa posted:I like that Blackthorne is supposed to be like, conversational in Portuguese yet apparently knows the equivalent to terms like slatterns and trollops and buggery. Need i remind you that he's a sailor? Like sailors are renown for their... diverse use of words.
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Mar 6, 2024 01:34
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I'm not sure why the Captain-General didn't blow up the galley or didn't agree to do something to ensure Blackthorne's death but it does make more sense as a resolution than the book where the Portugese got cold feet about actually getting involved and just gave the galley crew guns to fight the fishing boats. Mariko's basically been doing everything she can to keep him alive. I do think the way they handled the madman scene makes more sense.
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Mar 6, 2024 01:55
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I can buy the jesuits especially not wanting to cause a diplomatic incident by blowing a bunch of japanese sailors to hell in open view of the entirety of osaka. They should have just killed blackthorne then and there yeah but at some point you probably have to let people not killing blackthorne slide a bit to enjoy shogun
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Mar 6, 2024 02:00
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Henchman of Santa posted:I like that Blackthorne is supposed to be like, conversational in Portuguese yet apparently knows the equivalent to terms like slatterns and trollops and buggery. He's actually supposed to be fluent in Portuguese, so it's not that odd that he knows how to cuss
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Mar 6, 2024 02:28
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Also given how he's reacted every time he's met a Portuguese person I can believe he made it a priority
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Mar 6, 2024 02:47
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Steve Yun posted:Great episode except one thing made me squint The fight scene was oddly subdued, I thought. Blackthorne and Mariko pick up the polearms and don't seem especially skilled or quick with them, just kinda slowly moving em around and slashing people to death. It kinda felt like they needed more rehearsal, like the actors had learned the basic movements in practice but hadn't worked with them enough to swing them fast enough for it to look real.
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Mar 6, 2024 02:55
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They actually talk about that a bit on the podcast. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbCqJvnQxOQ&t=1449s If you want listen to them talking about it.
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Mar 6, 2024 03:11
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The fight was fine for what it was, they kept it relatively realistic. Neither of them are really fighters though both probably have a little training and have been around a lot of fighting. Granted "neither complete amateur nor super skilled" is sort of an awkward thing to film and they wisely didn't dwell on it No Mods No Masters fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Mar 6, 2024 |
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Mar 6, 2024 03:13
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My favorite part of the fight in the forest was the ambushers going,"...wait... are they fighting each other now?"
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Mar 6, 2024 03:18
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Steve Yun posted:Great episode except one thing made me squint As a non-book reader I actually thought that maybe that was meant to hint at the fact that Mariko had received some assassin training in her past. There's exposition earlier on in the episode about handmaidens that train secretly as assassins for a single shot at a contract. Of course Mariko's not a handmaiden so that blows that theory out of the water, but I will admit I audibly reacted in the moment when she wielded a weapon competently and assumed it was a plot point. Anyway episode owned, I'm really digging this show. Enough to maybe start supplementing other feudal Japanese content in the meantime. Thanks thread for the recommendations so far
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Mar 6, 2024 03:22
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Steve Yun posted:Great episode except one thing made me squint It was not at all uncommon for women of the samurai class (which she is) to be trained to use weapons just like men were. Especially a woman of her age, who is from a high-ranking samurai family and who lived through the Sengoku (Warring States) period. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onna-musha
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Mar 6, 2024 03:26
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Its p. well established that Japanese noblewomen practiced with the naginata. Sailors of that age also used boarding pikes, plus they had practice handling oars. Show is so drat good EDIT  e, fb! I was even going to include that exact link!
Vampire Panties fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Mar 6, 2024 |
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Mar 6, 2024 03:34
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Color me corrected!
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Mar 6, 2024 03:37
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The only thing that sucks about this show is that there will only be this one season. They've been going at a good pace so far though. Not as much of the politicking and intrigue as the book but hitting the same beats overall. I started rereading "Taiko" because of the show, though. It's a good one to read if you want to get a feel for the time period directly before when the show is set.
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Mar 6, 2024 03:50
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Jamwad Hilder posted:The only thing that sucks about this show is that there will only be this one season. They've been going at a good pace so far though. Not as much of the politicking and intrigue as the book but hitting the same beats overall.  Studio execs coming up with Shogun 2
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Mar 6, 2024 03:54
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https://x.com/Very__Regular/status/1765219736982266147?s=20
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Mar 6, 2024 04:39
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Henchman of Santa posted:Could not see about 40% of this episode because I watched it during the day in my very sunny apartment lol He's a sailor, i'll almost put money on you learning that stuff first.
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Mar 6, 2024 04:42
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Jamwad Hilder posted:The only thing that sucks about this show is that there will only be this one season. They've been going at a good pace so far though. Not as much of the politicking and intrigue as the book but hitting the same beats overall. I mentioned up thread but in the initial announcement foe the series a few years ago they mentioned they bought the rights to all of Clavell's novels and subsequent seasons might be those books. The next season could be Taipan, which is all about the founding of Hong Kong and the Golden triangle.
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Mar 6, 2024 04:49
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:I mentioned up thread but in the initial announcement foe the series a few years ago they mentioned they bought the rights to all of Clavell's novels and subsequent seasons might be those books. The next season could be Taipan, which is all about the founding of Hong Kong and the Golden triangle. I've actually never read the other books Clavell wrote, but I've been thinking about checking them out.
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Mar 6, 2024 05:00
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Jamwad Hilder posted:I've actually never read the other books Clavell wrote, but I've been thinking about checking them out. They're ripping yarns, full of politicking and crime and a ton of side characters getting their own fun little stories (like the cleaning lady who wins big at the horse races - actually she may have taken it off the corpse of a dude who died of excitement? - and IMMEDIATELY starts scheming on how to turn it into a business empire, then like 2 books later it's casually mentioned that she's now a major player in Hong Kong business  ) - but they were written by an old white British dude in the 1970s writing about Asian cultures, and he's really trying his best but there can't help be some  moments in his writing.I can't help but laugh at the moment in Whirlwind when he's writing about how apparently ALL Iranians are reckless drivers, and there's a section where some dudes are just zooming down the road weaving in and out of traffic, go flying off a cliff and die in a fireball and the rest of the traffic are just "oh well, gently caress that guy I guess  ")
Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Mar 6, 2024 |
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Mar 6, 2024 05:19
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I guess I'd give taipan by this creative team a shot but also good luck, I feel like that is much inferior source material (and also ends on a huge anticlimax). Those are the only two clavell books I've tried but maybe I should keep going. Would noble house be readable if I don't super remember the events of taipan? I basically remember the taipan had some of the magical debt coins still outstanding, died in a typhoon with the rivalry with the other guy unresolved, and left some legitimate and illegitimate heirs
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Mar 6, 2024 05:20
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Taipan’s really good fun. I think what stops the books from grating is that Clavell doesn’t feel the need to make his protagonists particularly nice or kind people, but he does make them interesting. His protagonists are mostly ambitious people, concerned with winning, not introspective about their moral codes and exceptional in various ways (Blackthorne for example is a highly competent pilot, an excellent linguist and also has a suicidally high risk tolerance).
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Mar 6, 2024 05:20
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Nybble posted:Does the show look better on Hulu? Watching it via Sling and it feels like I’m watching a badly upscaled DVD. Grabbed a Hulu free trial, looks a lot better. Will try to get some comparison pics but will definitely pony up for that and finally dump Sling. Barely use it as is.
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Mar 6, 2024 05:24
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lolwut at not-Tokugawa going "race you to the shore?" and diving in with a full set of heavy cotton undergarments mfer's gonna straight up drown start of next ep
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Mar 6, 2024 05:49
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Gotta even things up after he made Blackthorne dive multiple times in a row first!
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Mar 6, 2024 05:51
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No Mods No Masters posted:I guess I'd give taipan by this creative team a shot but also good luck, I feel like that is much inferior source material (and also ends on a huge anticlimax). Yeah, Noble House is a great read and has very little to do with Taipan's story. It's this sweeping epic that gives the feeling of an overpopulated city by running a few dozen plot lines in the background of the main plot. You'll get a random 15 page chapter about a criminal hiding from the police by pretending to be from the same region of this old woman he passed by. The industry titans leading the book will spend half a page on a business decision while the middle and lower class spend 30 pages reeling from it. King Rat is kind of interesting, too, since it has this almost confessional treatment of trans identity that you can tell Clavell is telling the truth about how he handled it despite wishing he had been a better person about it.
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Mar 6, 2024 06:33
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Qtotonibudinibudet posted:lolwut at not-Tokugawa going "race you to the shore?" and diving in with a full set of heavy cotton undergarments surprising yet fitting ending to the show
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Mar 6, 2024 07:52
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Why were Japanese sailing ships such dogshit? Just seems odd for an island nation to have such a bad navy.
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Mar 6, 2024 09:34
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Aurubin posted:Why were Japanese sailing ships such dogshit? Just seems odd for an island nation to have such a bad navy. From some stuff I read on the Korean invasion their trees are not the right kind to make large ships.
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Mar 6, 2024 10:52
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No Mods No Masters posted:I didn't get to the new ep yet, but It's a bit interesting that people seem about 50/50 between spelling it blackthorn and blackthorne, I guess probably depending on exposure to the novel or not (it's the latter) Clearly it should be Blackþ  Aurubin posted:Why were Japanese sailing ships such dogshit? Just seems odd for an island nation to have such a bad navy. Dogshit is kinda doing them a disservice. The main reason for the Japanese ships being the way they are is that most of their sailing was done in coastal waters, either following the coast or hopping between near-adjacent islands. That context lends itself really well to galleys, which can follow a coastline independently of prevailing wind direction, with the sail being kind of an extra for when the wind happens to align with your direction of travel. These galleys don't need to be particularly big, either, since they would pretty much always be in sight of the coast and could turn into harbor whenever they needed supplies. There was a similar dynamic in the Europe in the Mediterranean sea, where galleys remained predominant for a long time. Europe meanwhile was doing a lot of extremely long-distance seafaring across open oceans, which necessitated bigger, heavier ships with much more sail and the ability to act independently for long stretches of time. Japan's navy just never had much cause to develop in that direction, in part due to geography and in part due to isolationism.
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Mar 6, 2024 11:03
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Japan has always been a resource poor land. Very rich in people, non arrable mountainous land, large angry reptiles and earthquakes though. There is a passage in the book where a character explains how many people live in Japan at the time to Blackthorn, leaving him stunned. 20m I think was the figure? England at that time was perhaps 4 or 5m, though having been ravaged by plague and famine for several centuries. It's a reply to his dislike of how tightly structured Japanese society is and why. Maybe it is Mariko who says this and we just haven't got to it yet? It felt like a important step on his path to going native.
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Mar 6, 2024 11:20
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I did love the end of episode 1 when Blackthorne sees Osaka and realizes what a huge city it is.
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Mar 6, 2024 11:26
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Hang on a sec - I'm pretty sure that in this part of the book, Blackthrone goes back to save Buntaro when he's about to kill himself having been left behind. Am I remembering that correctly? Oh yeah I remember the piss scene! Couldn't remember who the other participant was though, I knew Yabu was one of them.
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Mar 6, 2024 12:44
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C-Euro posted:Hang on a sec - I'm pretty sure that in this part of the book, Blackthrone goes back to save Buntaro when he's about to kill himself having been left behind. Am I remembering that correctly? I'm not 100% on my memory of the book either, but I also do seem to recall Buntaro committing seppuku rather than charging into battle again.
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Mar 6, 2024 14:04
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Perestroika posted:I'm not 100% on my memory of the book either, but I also do seem to recall Buntaro committing seppuku rather than charging into battle again. Just took a look at my copy because I was having conflicting memories too: Buntaro and a woman make it to the wharf but she can't swim. Blackthorne orders the boat back but Yabu overrides him, so Blackthorne tosses them an oar. The woman tries to use it to float and kick her way to the boat but she panics and loses it, and drowns. Buntaro can swim but decides to commit seppuku instead, Mariko explaining that if he throws himself back into the fight or tries to swim and gets captured, it would be an unbearable shame. Blackthorne pleads with Toranaga who ignores him (though he does take the moment shown in the episode to bow as a token of gratitude to Buntaro for his efforts), but when the fighting between the other two factions creates a potential escape route, Toranaga suddenly bellows to Buntaro that he must attempt an escape. Buntaro is torn between wanting to die right then for a variety of reasons but in the end his lord has given him an order and so he follows it, and they see him disappear into the darkness before they turn to face the "fishing" boats that are blocking the harbor.
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Mar 6, 2024 14:21
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I believe the change was made at the request of the historians. Clavell's views of the Japanese belief in death before capture was informed more by his experiences as a POW while at the time battle hostages and ransom was a regularly practiced.
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Mar 6, 2024 17:59
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It's a reasonable change even just for filmic storytelling reasons, it would really gently caress with the pacing to show more of the steps in that sequence than they already did
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Mar 6, 2024 18:16
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