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kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012

Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.

Snooze Cruise posted:

you oval office, your function is bad opinons like this!

you're not wrong!!

also it's me, my favourite pokemon is luvdisc

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The Colonel
Jun 8, 2013


I commute by bike!
ff14 is an mmo for normal people so they want most of the game to be available, to normal people. that's part of why the wow type of stuff being discussed here is so funny, some people run into ff14 following that mindset and get floored when ff14 is mostly just made for people who want to play the final fantasy game on their ps4 with their friends. everything in the game has to be designed understanding a significant chunk of the player base are gonna be on console

nrook
Jun 25, 2009

Just let yourself become a worthless person!
my favorite pokemon is skarmory which is really convenient for this conversation

but like. it's a cool metal bird. what's not to like

Failboattootoot
Feb 6, 2011

Enough of this nonsense. You are an important mayor and this absurd contraption has wasted enough of your time.

ImpAtom posted:

Weirdly I've found that doesn't really hold up. I've found a lot of the people who really get into minmaxing and optimizing don't really tie it to figuring out themselves and will look up guides/tutorial/etc on how to minmax most effectively. There's a pretty vocal group of people who mixnmax based off guides and such and then complain about the game being too easy because it's designed around people figuring things out themselves.

Ehh I mean yes and no. I'm big into min-maxing and how much of a guide I am going to use varies quite a bit from game to game. For example, I will probably never use a guide for character building purposes while playing ff7 rebirth. It's not particularly hard to suss out what's good in that game and even if I am being sub-optimal, it's not going to be to a big enough degree for me to care.

Then there's a kind of middle-ground game like FF14. I play reaper mainly because it's what I find the most fun. But I absolutely have looked up guides on how to play it so I can do well on it, even if it may not be meta (not that I even do any content where the meta matters or even know what the meta actually is currently).

Then there's Last Epoch, a game I started off with looking at guides immediately. Since the "point" of an arpg is to get loot as fast as possible, running the most good thing matters a lot in the long term. There's also just so many options that I can't be assed to sort it out myself. Like if I really wanted to blind make a build, that process would probably take at least an hour between going through all the skill trees, passive trees, and looking up what kind of enabler uniques exist out there and gently caress that.

Erg
Oct 31, 2010

mycot posted:

Those people are the backbone of the internet.

Barudak
May 7, 2007

Good pokemon: Pure fire types
Bad Pokemon: Ground, Rock, Water types

Someone help me my meta is dying

Mr. Locke
Jul 28, 2010
Pokemon is weird in that any kind of Competitive would be a nightmare without a meta if some kind giving you a baseline of what to plan for in a game where you get to pick 24 moves to deal with a potential 500+ fully evolved targets.

Meowywitch
Jan 14, 2010

Fight for all that is beautiful in the world

what's colony ship?

Countblanc
Apr 20, 2005

Help a hero out!

Meowywitch posted:

what's colony ship?

Out.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

worm girl posted:

The idea of a meta is what destroyed ffxiv. I mean it's obviously still going strong, but all the jobs are watered down to the point that other than your role, it's basically all flavor. They chased WoW's design philosophy really hard when they relaunched, but then discovered WoW's pitfalls, such as people not wanting to bring certain classes to difficult raids because they were marginally less effective according to a spreadsheet.

But probably 60% of players don't engage with that content, it's just a sliver of the extremely competitive people aiming for world firsts and stuff that they're catering too.

MMOs are weird.
i dont think FF14 is like that because of The Meta, i think they just want the game to be fairly simple

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Annath posted:

Last time I played, which granted was years ago, people didn't seem to care it was unranked - picking the "wrong" character was a great way to get harassed/abused in voice/chat.
just turn off chat and smash pick whoever you want op

The 7th Guest
Dec 17, 2003

nrook posted:

my favorite pokemon is skarmory which is really convenient for this conversation

but like. it's a cool metal bird. what's not to like
also ska in the name

The Colonel posted:

ff14 is an mmo for normal people so they want most of the game to be available, to normal people. that's part of why the wow type of stuff being discussed here is so funny, some people run into ff14 following that mindset and get floored when ff14 is mostly just made for people who want to play the final fantasy game on their ps4 with their friends. everything in the game has to be designed understanding a significant chunk of the player base are gonna be on console
yea they even have all the duty finder/npc stuff in there so ppl can even ignore the MM part of the MMO. i'm sure there's a grognardy sect of players but for the most part it is designed to be crazy accessible. i think Old Republic is also kind of this way, having played through one of the campaigns a few years ago

Barudak
May 7, 2007

The purpose of unranked is to silence the voices that say you have to pick meta but are people who aren't able to climb even while desperately clinging to it.

Or if you're really good at the game giving you clownshoes matchups where its you versus one other person at your level, both of you playing characters you never use, trying to shepherd your teammates who are several ranks below you like newborn fawns to victory

Ornamented Death
Jan 25, 2006

Pew pew!

Tyranitar is my favorite pokemon because he's a 7-foot tall kaiju.

Annath
Jan 11, 2009

Batatouille is a great and funny play on words for a video game creature and I love silly words like these
Clever Betty

Ornamented Death posted:

Tyranitar is my favorite pokemon because he's a 7-foot tall kaiju.

Barudak
May 7, 2007

Ornamented Death posted:

Tyranitar is my favorite pokemon because he's a 7-foot tall kaiju.

Who weighs 200 kilos. Easy on the rare candies there

Ornamented Death
Jan 25, 2006

Pew pew!

Barudak posted:

Who weighs 200 kilos. Easy on the rare candies there

I just assume kaiju are very dense, so it tracks.

Kagaya Homoraisan
Aug 28, 2019

You say, run away
Instead, you get scared
For the way that I feel
Drops out into all this disorder

Endorph posted:

i dont think FF14 is like that because of The Meta, i think they just want the game to be fairly simple

you can find exactly this in for example the reasoning they gave for removing all the summoner dots (and their stance on dots in general): "we know the good players like these and they can be somewhat skill testing but we think theyre too complicated for players and also they somewhat complicate our work so were cutting them. bye" which would not be a thing that happened if they were listening to raiders and making their choices based on raiders lol. the raider stuff is a knock-on effect

Countblanc
Apr 20, 2005

Help a hero out!
man is just full of sand.

The Colonel
Jun 8, 2013


I commute by bike!
ff14 is weird cause you get people who have extremely strong opinions on the grander balancing choices they make and it feels like living in different worlds if you're someone who just likes to run around in the final fantasy game. do i look like i know what a dot is

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.
When I play pokemon I only use bug types because bugs are cool.

Caphi
Jan 6, 2012

INCREDIBLE
I think that qualifies you to be an official Gym Leader.

Mr. Locke
Jul 28, 2010
Summoner is a weird pull cause it got changed because it was a DoT class first, a Ruin spammer second, and barely a pet class unless Bahamut or Phoenix was up. Instead of, y'know, the summon-focused class. Yeah, DoTs are hard. Yeah, it was really weird mechanically, but it ultimately got changed because it was a Final Fantasy Summoner that barely scraped the fantasy of being a Final Fantasy Summoner.

... besides, if you want to talk about a powerful and rewarding class that got merc'd because it was too hard for the pubbies to grasp, Machinist is bleeding out right over there.

abraham linksys
Sep 6, 2010

:darksouls:
star ocean 2 r: i gave up and looked up a youtube playthrough of the psp version to see ashton's questline. i am glad he did not kill those dragons

i still can't believe they didn't record new english VO for this version. the terrible VO actually fits the PSP portrait aesthetic much better

now onto the laucer front line base and its point of no return. will i like this game more after putting in 15 more hours to beat it? probably not. but at least the music's banging enough i don't feel like it's a complete waste of time

Kagaya Homoraisan
Aug 28, 2019

You say, run away
Instead, you get scared
For the way that I feel
Drops out into all this disorder

Mr. Locke posted:

Summoner is a weird pull cause it got changed because it was a DoT class first, a Ruin spammer second, and barely a pet class unless Bahamut or Phoenix was up. Instead of, y'know, the summon-focused class. Yeah, DoTs are hard. Yeah, it was really weird mechanically, but it ultimately got changed because it was a Final Fantasy Summoner that barely scraped the fantasy of being a Final Fantasy Summoner.

... besides, if you want to talk about a powerful and rewarding class that got merc'd because it was too hard for the pubbies to grasp, Machinist is bleeding out right over there.

except i am literally quoting them about dots. its not a "weird pull" i am quoting them

FireWorksWell
Nov 27, 2014

Let's go do some hero shit!


Caphi posted:

I think that qualifies you to be an official Gym Leader.

Only if their parents had the foresight to give them an insect-themed name

worm girl
Feb 12, 2022

Can you hear it too?

Endorph posted:

i dont think FF14 is like that because of The Meta, I think they just want the game to be fairly simple

Extremely mad that they removed the button for tank stance because it was funny every single time you queued into Sastasha with a console guy who refused to turn it on or respond to chat messages.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

worm girl posted:

Extremely mad that they removed the button for tank stance because it was funny every single time you queued into Sastasha with a console guy who refused to turn it on or respond to chat messages.

Tank Stance still has a button.

GateOfD
Jan 31, 2023

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 7 days!)

Does Samurai class have an anime stance

worm girl
Feb 12, 2022

Can you hear it too?

ImpAtom posted:

Tank Stance still has a button.

Oh my god I thought they removed it when the last expansion came out. Am I misremembering? Did they just make it automatically turn on or something?

edit: No apparently nothing was ever done. I think I'm losing it.

Rascyc
Jan 23, 2008

Dissatisfied Puppy

Endorph posted:

i dont think FF14 is like that because of The Meta, i think they just want the game to be fairly simple
Yeah YoshiP has a few interviews going into it and it was basically meeting requests for simpler gameplay during raids and synchronizing cool downs. Synchronizing cool downs was the bigger driver of homogeneous play styles since now everyone has to play around 60s/120s cycles.

Rascyc
Jan 23, 2008

Dissatisfied Puppy

worm girl posted:

Oh my god I thought they removed it when the last expansion came out. Am I misremembering? Did they just make it automatically turn on or something?

edit: No apparently nothing was ever done. I think I'm losing it.
They gave it a better icon when you have it on/off and I also wanna say they took the stupid CD off if you happen to hit it accidentally?

You can't really take it out, there are a bunch of times you don't want to generate aggro as a tank.

You might be thinking of the DPS penalty it used to give way back in the day

Kagaya Homoraisan
Aug 28, 2019

You say, run away
Instead, you get scared
For the way that I feel
Drops out into all this disorder

worm girl posted:

Oh my god I thought they removed it when the last expansion came out. Am I misremembering? Did they just make it automatically turn on or something?

edit: No apparently nothing was ever done. I think I'm losing it.

what they did (and this was awhile ago) was make it so level synching into a dungeon didnt automatically remove tank stance (since its a buff). this was the cause of a lot of the aforementioned no tank stance runs cuz people would have it on before they came in, it fell off, and they just never fixed it cuz theyre high or watching netflix on the second monitor or whatever

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012

Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.
They did remove the 'dps' stance from tanks and now they do the same damage regardless and tank mode just grants huge enmity

mycot
Oct 23, 2014

"It's okay. There are other Terminators! Just give us this one!"
Hell Gem
There's also Cleric Stance but that was removed way before my time (i.e. 2021)

Last Celebration
Mar 30, 2010

Barudak posted:

Who weighs 200 kilos. Easy on the rare candies there

I mean, it is a seven foot tall rock monster that ate approximately a mountain’s worth of dirt to even reach its second form, poo poo tracks. If anything that almost feels kinda light looking at muscle dense animals irl.

Barudak
May 7, 2007

Last Celebration posted:

I mean, it is a seven foot tall rock monster that ate approximately a mountain’s worth of dirt to even reach its second form, poo poo tracks. If anything that almost feels kinda light looking at muscle dense animals irl.

I am using wailmer* as a pokemon density benchmark

*Do not use wailmer as a pokemon density benchmark

Booky
Feb 21, 2013

Chill Bug


volcarona Is one of my fave pokemons. :colbert:

FutureCop
Jun 7, 2011

Have you heard of Fermat's principle?

GateOfD posted:

Does Samurai class have an anime stance

Unfortunately not anymore, the flashy anime stance you do before your big moves, aka Hissatsu Kaiten, was removed as part of the simplification of classes.

I was on board with most of the changes that FFXIV were doing to simplify classes: after all, reducing button bloat can be nice. But when they came for Kaiten, they went too far. It was then that I unsubbed (ok, I actually unsubbed because I had just beat Endwalker and it felt like a good stopping point to stop MMOs altogether, but still)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrbcUEUJ3kA

FutureCop fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Mar 6, 2024

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Terper
Jun 26, 2012


Annath posted:

I had no idea Fire Emblem had a meta. I guess the Dark Fliers with that "double turns" move were good? I never play on the nightmare difficulties though.

https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/190vwkj/dark_flier_is_overrated_garbage_in_awakening/

:v:

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