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DaysBefore posted:Lmao hell yeah. CA ftw What kills me is that some of these are such own goals. Who was clamoring for a rampage rework? It's just a pure downside mehanic (AFAIK) for large monsters, and sometimes a troll the enemy button for Skarbrand. Does it at least give some hidden combat bonuses to mimic some berzerker/bbarbarian rage behavior? And then, after what was probably a rather extensive backend rework, they don't test the most obvious and easy to test bug with dinos rampaging if they start a battle with damage.
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Mar 6, 2024 16:05
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asking me to play the game I made. What am I made of money (time(money))????
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Mar 6, 2024 16:15
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 Any idea why I can't raid? Tooltip says 43/135. I also had the issue where I started moving in encamp stance, and when I swapped to raiding stance to move further I didn't get any extra movement. I then moved a little more without a stance and saw I could still switch over to raid stance at ~45%, so I figured it would still work that way and moved over where I wanted to raid, but now I can't do it any more. Very annoying. E: Wait I see now. Why does it have two separate campaign movement penalties to 'campaign movement range' and just 'campaign movement'? Didn't it used to be just -25%? Well, at least I can't claim the tooltip doesn't tell me, but of course i only read the red part because my eyes gloss over the game info that's not in red or green and assumes it's flavor text lol. 
Insurrectionist fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Mar 6, 2024 |
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Mar 6, 2024 18:51
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From what I recall their math is pretty bad for stances when you get over 100 movement points from buffs
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Mar 6, 2024 18:57
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Insurrectionist posted:
Right, its not great, but its saying you need 50% of your movement to go into raid stance, and while in raid stance you have a 25% movement penalty. And as others mentioned, the math on it just straight doesn't work sometimes. Edit: Also, I'm pretty sure that's actually wrong and part of it is just they haven't updated the wording on it since they moved to displaying the points. Go into raid stance costs you 50 move points, and then you have a 25% penalty to any movement while in raid stance. I'm not sure if this means it cuts of 25% of your move points, or if each movement point costs 25% more (4 move points of movement now costs 5). TaintedBalance fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Mar 6, 2024 |
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Mar 6, 2024 19:21
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Have they patched the rampage bugs and stuff? I've been holding off on playing partly coz other games and partly coz it sounds like a bit of a train wreck this patch, which is kinda funny since it's the "pls forgive us" patch
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Mar 6, 2024 19:50
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if you're desperate and/or don't care, use the movement bug to restore your movement and raid there's a few but one is recruit one unit. save then load the save then cancel recruitment
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Mar 6, 2024 20:46
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Communist Thoughts posted:Have they patched the rampage bugs and stuff? I've been holding off on playing partly coz other games and partly coz it sounds like a bit of a train wreck this patch, which is kinda funny since it's the "pls forgive us" patch There's something of a bandaid fix for it which gives you like a minute to get your rampage units into position. they say they're working on a better solution
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Mar 6, 2024 21:12
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Can I get some advice for endgame army composition for Orcs? I'm playing Grimgor on Normal (my first foray above easy, I'm a coward) and I decided to turn on the ultimate crisis. I managed to conquer loads of territory, but now the crisis is here and I need lots more armies on lots more fronts. Building many armies from scratch has made it harder to figure out what an effective army needs. My instincts have been an orc warboss, then a frontline of black orcs if I have time to recruit or big'uns if not, a flanking cavalry force of big'un boar riders, some goblin/orc archers, then maybe some rock lobbers and heroes. I don't really understand the relative strength or battlefield roles of the more exotic units. Trolls, for example, I've only had in garrison battles and they never seem to perform that well (and break quickly). Mounted archers seem less effective as archers than regular archers. I'm not even sure what the snotling pump wagons are doing or if they're helpinv at all. Night goblin fanatics seem useful not not necessarily worth bringing weak goblin line infantry for. Am I missing the idea of how to build an effective endgame Orc army? My regular armies feel like they're underperforming right now if I try to go stack for stack with the undead or the dwarves.
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Mar 6, 2024 22:50
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Dolash posted:Can I get some advice for endgame army composition for Orcs? I'm playing Grimgor on Normal (my first foray above easy, I'm a coward) and I decided to turn on the ultimate crisis. I managed to conquer loads of territory, but now the crisis is here and I need lots more armies on lots more fronts. well, i'd get more artillery when you're fighting dwarfs, nothing is better than making them come to you and shelling them the whole time. same for undead. orc cavalry isn't very good, but a couple mounted archers can be good for annoying units without much range and splitting off a tough unit, as well as being good for chasing off routed units. otherwise i'd probably do the same as far as army composition. black orcs would do better against dwarves with their armour piercing, big uns better against large units. i guess you could use gobbos versus archer strong armies as they tend to have good shields? i try to stick to thematic armies, so if the lord is a night goblin warlord i'll heavily favour goblin units (who get a lot of upgrades in the tech tree) whereas orc lords get mostly orc units and black orc warbosses. trolls have regen, so their low leadership isn't as bad as you'd think, since they tend to retreat, re-heal, and you can charge them back in. snotling pump wagons are chariots which tend to take a lot of micro but orcs aren't super micro-intensive so you can good value out of them if you want to put the effort in.
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Mar 6, 2024 23:11
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not an expert but: trolls are for stiffening your infantry line - on their own they will get surrounded or run away. in a blob they can tank hits much better wolf/spider archers are skirmishers. use them to peel the enemy army apart. the AI will happily send multiple units chasing after your one or two wolf archers, which lets you defeat in detail the rest of the army. also you can charge them into melee to tie up ranged units if necessary. doing actual damage is more of a pleasant bonus pump wagons are chariots so should be deployed against thin/scattered infantry and ranged units. they will die if you send them into an infantry blob with no room to get out. they've had a few balance changes but I remember them being effective night goblins are an upgrade to normal goblins (poison!), and fanatics are a neat bonus ability if unreliable. Skarsnik obviously boosts them most but the main use of goblins for other leaders is cheap ablative infantry. let them eat missile fire or cavalry charges so your orcs can reach melee intact consider nasty skulkers for your anti-armour flanking needs. you could do good siege cheese with them previously but not any more. they get a perfect vigour scrap upgrade I think arachnarok spider is the preferred SEM for greenskins shamans have some good spells - orc get Foot of Gork for damage dealing while goblin has good debuffs to level the playing field you want a mix of units but don't overspend on ranged, especially against dwarfs - your strength is your meaty infantry
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Mar 6, 2024 23:17
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the big perk of Night Goblin infantry is that they have stalk, meaning they can maneuver around or close the distance between a ranged-heavy army without being seen. With Skarsnik or a Night Goblin warboss they can be really nasty.
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Mar 6, 2024 23:19
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If you have a Boyz or Big'uns frontline then any Trolls mixed in are your damage and armored can peeling. Black Orks do that themselves but having 1-2 Trolls or any monster to help punch holes in the enemy line is still valued. Trolls tier up to River and Stone with Grom the Paunch DLC, River Trolls never get out-scaled past having 2 in the army because they radiate a nasty debuff aura and Stone Trolls are the flat improvement over regular. Other late game orc whammies are Idols and Arachnaroks. Giants if you're saucy, just any walking nuke that you can screen against enemy ranged. You also want to nurture heroes and lords since orc spellcasting spikes so hard with Big Waagh getting Foot and Lil Waagh getting the free Arachanrok(sign up bonus at Total War Access.)
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Mar 6, 2024 23:36
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Trolls have two rolls. Break enemy formation, retreat, heal up, and repeat. Trolls do this on a much shorter cycle than stone trolls. Their lower leadership actually helps them retreat before taking losses. Or be river trolls and give a -6 MA to everyone around them. You will probably need to lean in harder with your giants, spiders, and idols for late game. Greenskins are considered a better multiplayer army since they have super efficient units but generally at a lower cost point. This causes more issues for single player as it is locked to 20 units. So you are right to abuse black orks and savage ork boar boy bigguns.
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Mar 6, 2024 23:36
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Good to know. I guess a lot of the more specialized units are for roles where the player takes more direct control to do things like pull away enemy units or run down stragglers. At least it's good to know that the basic army composition is still a good "core" to build around, maybe I just need to switch up the last 30% or so to be more effective. For the weirdly expensive or big units, is there any reason not to have just a ton of them in one army if I can afford it? Is an army of Rogue Idols or Arachnaroks some kind of super-army so long as they don't face some specific counter force? It's tough not to think of army composition as simply rock-paper-scissors if there are some units that are just always good to include if you can.
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Mar 6, 2024 23:58
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Dolash posted:Good to know. I guess a lot of the more specialized units are for roles where the player takes more direct control to do things like pull away enemy units or run down stragglers. At least it's good to know that the basic army composition is still a good "core" to build around, maybe I just need to switch up the last 30% or so to be more effective. those kind of armies are called doomstacks, and some people like them. it can be good for when you want to auto-resolve everything when you're basically winning the game already. i like the tactical element to battles though so i don't really use them. even when you're manually fighting, a whole army of arachnaroks doesn't really have much counters, because even focus firing (which is the normal weakness for SEMs) doesn't really work when there's 18 more of them.
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Mar 7, 2024 00:46
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Dolash posted:Can I get some advice for endgame army composition for Orcs? I'm playing Grimgor on Normal (my first foray above easy, I'm a coward) and I decided to turn on the ultimate crisis. I managed to conquer loads of territory, but now the crisis is here and I need lots more armies on lots more fronts. Broad strokes: doom diver catapults are your only ranged units. Boar Boys are good, but monsters are better. Strictly speaking, your only units (if budget isn't an issue) should probably be lord/heroes, black orcs, giants/spiders/rock golems, and doom diver catapults. Let the attendant waaghs have expendable units. Stone trolls also punch way, way above their weight because of the armor and regeneration. Their only issue is morale.
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Mar 7, 2024 00:57
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Dolash posted:Can I get some advice for endgame army composition for Orcs? I'm playing Grimgor on Normal (my first foray above easy, I'm a coward) and I decided to turn on the ultimate crisis. I managed to conquer loads of territory, but now the crisis is here and I need lots more armies on lots more fronts. Let the unit tiers be your guide. While Greenskins have a wide variety of units, most of them are geared toward stomping around early-game and mid-game. In the late-game, monsters are probably the way to go. Greenskin archers are pretty weak in the lategame. All the goblin archer types have no AP and have poor damage output in general, and the orc archers have poor accuracy and are generally mediocre. The mounted archers are good at harassment, as the wolf riders are super fast and the spider riders have poison attacks, but they don't do any meaningful damage against anything armored. I'd trade in almost all the archery, mounted or not, for something a little more fighty. Boar Boy Big'Uns are probably the best regular cavalry option you have, with anti-large bonuses and plenty of AP, but in my experience they tend to feel pretty weak against lategame armies. Pump wagons are basically equivalent to them, but anti-infantry instead of anti-large, and they require charge bonuses to stay on par so you have to micromanage them even more. I eventually traded in most of my cavalry for Arachnorok Spiders, and they just wrecked so much more poo poo. They're a bit slower, and more expensive too, but they're a lot stronger. They've got great anti-large, too, so they excel at kaiju battles against other huge monsters. Trolls are basically your glass cannon types, which can deal a hefty blow to the enemy line but can't ever be left to fight unsupported. They hit just as hard as Black Orcs while having twice the speed and being able to cause fear, but they're lacking in armor, HP, and leadership, so they'll quickly rout or die if the enemy gets a chance to hit back. They're at their best when you wait for the frontlines to clash and then send them in to pummel enemies that are already occupied. They make great flankers. Night Goblins of all kinds basically have two things going for them: they have Stalk, allowing them to hide in any terrain, and they have poisoned weapons which inflict significant debuffs. So although their own attacks are mediocre at best, they can set up some nasty ambushes on the enemy's weaker backline troops, or act as decent flankers to weaken the enemy frontline. Their weak stats, and especially their lack of AP, make them difficult to use in the lategame, though. The Night Goblin Fanatics (both regular and archers) both have a special AP AOE attack that they can use up to three times, which can be used in some interesting ways, but they're still very much a niche option. My go-to lategame orcs army would be a frontline of Black Orcs and Big'Uns, with a few Doom Diver Catapults to provide artillery support, and fill the rest of the army with mostly monstrous units of various kinds.
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Mar 7, 2024 01:05
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Ardent Communist posted:orc cavalry isn't very good, but a couple mounted archers Everything else here is fine, but orc boar cav loving rule now. The various stickiness and collision updates have made them very good specifically as shock cav. They've got great mass, solid stats, and are amazing at breaking through lines or just being a nightmare on a flank. Something I didn't see others mentioned, so apologies for the repeat if I missed it, but you wanna be getting that lord recruit rank building in every capital you can find room for (its the control building, so you'll want it anyways), so you can get gobbo shamans coming out on arachnarok spiders out the gate. They are INCREDIBLY good and where you'll be spending most of your micro with a good meaty infantry stack with some artillery and either some monsters (spiders/trolls/idols/giants) or cav to pad it out. The gaze attack they get is brutal from a superior angle, their vortex is solid, and the buffs/debuffs can be clutch if you time them right, especially getting them to stack with a waagh. You ever see what nasty skulkers can do when you've got Grimgor's Waagh and Sneaky Stabbin' on them at the same time? Hint: it starts with gently caress and ends with death (total of +48 MA [+64 MA if its a Big Waagh), +50% base weapon damage, and +75% AP weapon damage, just loving beautiful). They'll tear longbeards to shreds, its amazing. And on pump wagons, its best to have at least 2-4 of them if you're going to have any, and use them as a strike force to just brutalize any exposed or isolated infantry units. They all are anti-infantry with fine AP, the flappas have strider (which can be real good depending on where you are) and slightly better MD, and rollers have better anti-infantry (15->20), way better AP (15->40) and better MA. They will melt to anti-large, so don't let that happen to them. They're very good against dwarves without a lot of ranged, or after you've neutralized or distracted the ranged, but they will lose if you leave them stuck in. Cycle charge for maximum value. Edit: On actual composition, my basic setup looks something like the below 1 Lord 1-2 Heroes 8-12 Infantry 1-4 Monsters 2-4 Utility Lord, hero, and general core are going to vary around first the lord choice, and then availability of options. If I go Shaman lord, I'll take an orc big boss, and maybe a troll shaman or gobo big boss. Infantry will be some mix of black orc/big uns and then boyz around them(8-10), with some fanatics or skulkers for flanking (2-4). If I've got an orc warboss, it will look pretty similar, but I tend to lean harder on elite units and less on cheap chaff (this is just RP, there is no major gameplay reason) for the infantry core, with either an orc shaman or troll shaman for casting, and usually an orc big boss to just make that core even nastier. Sometimes 2 if I'm feelin' spicy. Night goblin warboss changes this up the most, with usually an all gobo army if I can swing it (just basic gobos are a poor choice against dwarves, less so against some other match ups, and if you can get night gobos the calc changes) because of some of the unique yellow lines. Mushroom-addicted is great here if you get it to bring those costs down. On all of these lords I prioritize the red line for the army i'm going to be bringing, it REALLY helps. Then monsters and utility will be more varied depending on just what's available. You want something fast to get around and harass ranged, you want something to smash flanks, and you want artillery to both set the conditions of the fighting and to counter their artillery/ranged. Giants and idols you can usually just stick into the fight and make sure they aren't going up against counters (anti-large with solid armor/leadership), trolls and boar cav are all effectively shock cav (cycle charge and harass, or mix the trolls in with your infantry, especially the river trolls since they have that -6 MA debuff to enemy in 35m), everything else is usually flank/isolate/harass. Oh, on the arachnarok, note the +20 anti-large and high ap damage - these guys are straight SEM/large killers, great for chasing down enemy lords on mounts and ruining their day. And then I guess there are the chariot units, which just suck in my experience. Don't waste time on them when pump wagons are right there. The only faction that fucks harder than you in a straight melee is WoC and Khorne (Norsca can be here if they make a real stack), so that's what you want to be forcing the enemy into. Neutralize their advantage and force them into your strengths. As for WoC and Khorne? Uh, just waagh the gently caress out and drown them in green, they god drat suck to take in an even fight. But also, do that in every fight, gobos are expendable, da waagh is forever. TaintedBalance fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Mar 7, 2024 |
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Mar 7, 2024 01:08
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Greenskins are one of the factions that can have a lot of diversity in how its armies play. I'll make one of those blorc/doom diver armies if I need to, but most of my armies will be poo poo like all-stalking goblins, or trolls+boyz, or monsters+goblins. Also pump wagons own.jokes posted:Broad strokes: doom diver catapults are your only ranged units. Boar Boys are good, but monsters are better. Granted I generally quit when budget stops being an issue, but I really hate this advice. Most of the GS roster is good to great and you can always swarm the enemy instead of dueling them stack v stack. Supply lines are very reasonable now compared to wh2.
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Mar 7, 2024 01:20
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send endless waves of nasty skulkers at the enemies with maybe a leader that can cast magic and wittle down the enemy with them. That's all you need to win >:]
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Mar 7, 2024 01:26
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Thanks, this's all helped me get a better grasp on how to get more out of the roster. I will say in defence of some cheap massed archers, it really helped me put down Ghorst's crisis armies by focus-firing the flying vampires out of the air one at a time. Having sixty units on the field essentially being ablative arnor for three flying weak spots that won the whole battle for me made for a weird tactical experience, especially once the last one got wedged behind a cliff with some tarpitted cavalry and I had to escort seven archer units across a raging battlefield to get an angle on him. Then again, a giant spider or animated idol probably would've managed to get under there too.
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Mar 7, 2024 01:28
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feller posted:Greenskins are one of the factions that can have a lot of diversity in how its armies play. I'll make one of those blorc/doom diver armies if I need to, but most of my armies will be poo poo like all-stalking goblins, or trolls+boyz, or monsters+goblins. Also pump wagons own. Honestly, all of this. Greenskins are one of the best factions in the game, hands down. You might not like them, which is fine, but they do what they do excellently and you can have a ton of fun with themed armies that are still effective, you just have to pick your battles and be mindful of where you're going. That gobo stack is probably a poor idea against khorne or TK, but can do a ton of work against humies and enemy backlines.
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Mar 7, 2024 02:00
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How on earth are you supposed to use Tretch and his cowardice mechanics? Skaven have an offensive ambush stance and can stack buffs to make it almost guaranteed, why would I want to take a weaker lord who gets bonuses for leading armies into ambushes when my other lords can force an ambush whenever I want if I just put 4 points in the blue line?
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Mar 7, 2024 02:03
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feller posted:Greenskins are one of the factions that can have a lot of diversity in how its armies play. I'll make one of those blorc/doom diver armies if I need to, but most of my armies will be poo poo like all-stalking goblins, or trolls+boyz, or monsters+goblins. Also pump wagons own. The Waaagh! mechanic is what gives you the swarming. Black orcs let you swarm too, or grab big uns for a cheaper option, but swarming in the tactical layer is really ineffective versus having monsters stomping, and black orcs are hard to beat one-on-one. hing is, greenskins hoard absurd amounts of cash by the late-game since they're always stomping so much, and cost is really not a big deal by late game-- particularly for stomping armies like greenskins. If you're talking about late-game armies, cost is generally of a relatively small concern as you can just use a mid/early tier army to save money. But if you want a true doomstack, there are considerations beyond "get expensive units". An Empire army that's 100% demigryphs would loving suck, but an Empire army that's mostly demigryphs, steam tanks, and late-game artillery would be loving hard to beat.
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Mar 7, 2024 02:10
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seriously, greenskins can absolutely send a generic lord with 19 nasty skulkers at enemy armies. More if you need them and then autoresolve. if they all die, you don't lose much and take a huge bite out of the enemy. It may seem silly but this can nearly win campaigns on higher difficulty on it's own.
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Mar 7, 2024 02:20
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The Door Frame posted:How on earth are you supposed to use Tretch and his cowardice mechanics? Skaven have an offensive ambush stance and can stack buffs to make it almost guaranteed, why would I want to take a weaker lord who gets bonuses for leading armies into ambushes when my other lords can force an ambush whenever I want if I just put 4 points in the blue line? Tretch is a slightly amended meme and you play him for the starting position, buffs(units via his starting location/landmark and his skill tree) while ignoring the retreat bonus unless you get it passively(i.e. you actually retreat without planning around it.) He's Skaven so he will ambush passively on the attack so the attack bonus makes a good thing even better. As I recall his gimmick is Stormvermin and with full lord and tech buffs they get pretty gnarly so it's a nice Skaven change of pace to play a traditional front army. Tretch's other appeal is his weird stats, abilities and legendary gear that make him effectively immortal even compared to every other well-statted lord, although his damage always bizarrely lags behind. He's a fun tactical bellend if Skaven DLC powercreep feels a bit too free win-y.
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Mar 7, 2024 03:04
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yeah part of the funny irony with tretch is that he buffs stormvermin to a respectable degree of being able to fight head-on despite being personally a big cowardly poo poo, and a legit powerful bonus that gives everyone in his army devastating flanker, which is scary on doomflayers and even wolf rats
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Mar 7, 2024 03:08
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Im a Greenskin fan, myself
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Mar 7, 2024 03:17
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Man, Khalida in The Old World is a painfully slow start. All the featherfoot gas pedal of the Tomb Kings, added to TOW's giant map, added to Khalida starting in the extreme southeast corner where half the terrain is considered mountain pass terrain that gobbles up movement. Do not recommend.
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Mar 7, 2024 03:21
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im not a fan of the greenskin roster because it's very wide and has a lot of real meh units but it's very dope how the added LLs boost parts of the roster that suck rear end by design into things that can stand on their own based on a theme. poo poo like gobbo chariots being abject trash but becoming spooky when buffed by grom the paunch and so on
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Mar 7, 2024 03:29
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Now, boar boyz..........
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Mar 7, 2024 03:33
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Dandywalken posted:Im a Greenskin fan, myself
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Mar 7, 2024 03:53
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Dandywalken posted:Now, boar boyz.......... one day buddy...gorbad ironclaw will ride again...
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Mar 7, 2024 04:01
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Dandywalken posted:Now, boar boyz.......... If you can get to Pigbarter they become really drat good. Basic boar Boyz are never going to be great because they are shock cav with a mediocre charge bonus and poor stats on top of that but bigguns can do some good work keeping your infantry safe if you support them. Adding in the Dazed contact effect from Pigbarter is so nice for rear charges though.
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Mar 7, 2024 04:01
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Ravenfood posted:If you can get to Pigbarter they become really drat good. Basic boar Boyz are never going to be great because they are shock cav with a mediocre charge bonus and poor stats on top of that but bigguns can do some good work keeping your infantry safe if you support them. What a time for twwstats to not be loading data properly.
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Mar 7, 2024 05:25
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feller posted:Greenskins are one of the factions that can have a lot of diversity in how its armies play. I'll make one of those blorc/doom diver armies if I need to, but most of my armies will be poo poo like all-stalking goblins, or trolls+boyz, or monsters+goblins. Also pump wagons own. When you get into the late-game after budget stops being an issue, the Greenskins' unit diversity kinda drops off because a lot of their stuff just cannot stand up to high-tier lategame units In the early to mid-game stuff, there's just so many different ways Greenskins can operate, they have an absolute ton of options for running versatile armies at low and medium costs, and they can back those options up with an endless tide of basic goblins and orcs. But as you start running into more and more stuff with good stats and decent armor, it gets harder and harder to make those goblins useful
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Mar 7, 2024 15:46
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Vizuyos posted:When you get into the late-game after budget stops being an issue, the Greenskins' unit diversity kinda drops off because a lot of their stuff just cannot stand up to high-tier lategame units I think this is fare. Scrap upgrades do help with this, in some cases substantially, but they could use some slightly tuning for handling those end game stacks. Although, tbf, this is an issue for A LOT of factions.
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Mar 7, 2024 18:07
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Unfortunately, goblin swarms' usefulness is very specifically on the strategic layer because on the tactical layer non-AP goblins are absolutely useless against armored anti-infantry melee but the AR really lets you hit a critical mass of goblin that lets them win encounters they couldn't in the tactical layer. Like, if you have a unit of ironbreakers it'll probably take about 10 goblin cards to match it, if you upgrade your goblins. Goblin skulkers, though? Skarsnik upgrades? Those will peel those cans of dwarf meat without an issue.
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Mar 7, 2024 18:19
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Gobbo archers with the AP upgrade 
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Mar 7, 2024 19:36
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