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Nelson Mandingo posted:That definitely checks out and aligns better. Yeah right now the big question surrounding Aerith is is she a ghost that only Cloud can see and hear at the moment, or is she just a figment of Cloud's imagination. Red XIII reacting to her touching him is currently the only piece of evidence in flavor of the former, but either way she is 100% physically dead (in this timeline anyway).
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Mar 6, 2024 22:07
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ImpAtom posted:(The original also implies he had a thing for her but Crisis Core wisely retcons that to 'he is watching over her for Zack' because Tseng is 31 and that's creepy as poo poo. Same way they seem to have redone Tseng and Elena's relationship as Teacher and Mentee instead of him hitting on her.) I kind of got the impression that Tseng is desperate to rationalize himself as doing the right thing for Aerith (hence why he sets the Turks policy of just ignoring the party wherever possible) because if he doesn't his entire castle of excuses for why he's not a bad person will finally collapse.
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Mar 6, 2024 22:11
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My assumption (and they could prove me wrong) is that the Aerith who is following along in the ending is the real Aerith's ghost, but she's not actually spilling the beans to Cloud and letting him think she's alive but staying behind. This follows through with what she did earlier where she hid his obvious mental break from the party and went "Oh, uh, no, Sephiroth TOTALLY kicked Cloud's rear end and stole the Materia" and what she was doing in the alt-timeline/the weird forest dream where she basically went "Cloud, I like you, but you really need to get your poo poo together, you need to find out who you are" where it basically seems like she was (perhaps foolishly) trying to give Cloud cover so he could deal with his poo poo. And obviously this is a terrible idea but Cloud is on the absolute edge of mental collapse as-is so I couldn't blame her for going "Uh, well, poo poo, if I tell him I'm dead he is probably going to absolutely lose it." (This does raise the question of the rest of the party but the impression I got is that Cloud's brain is basically selectively editing anything that gets in the way, like how earlier remembering Zack made his mind go "oh gosh Zack fell off a cliff and died") All of this could be dead wrong but I just get the impression that everyone, including the literal dead, are on eggshells around Cloud because if you push him there's no idea what will happen. Tifa is obviously insanely miserable and closed off, Barrett basically goes "gently caress it, fine, I'm trusting you Cloud", and everyone else seems too shook up by Aerith's death to get something is off with Cloud.
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Mar 6, 2024 22:14
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I've got a weird feeling that if they do Return to the Forgotten Capital in Part 3, instead of seeing the weird magical DVD player footage of Aerith to reverse engineer what the hell was up with the White Materia and what she was doing when she died, that would be the point where Aerith's ghost just reveals herself to the rest of the party and flat out tells them what's going on. Because, who knows, maybe there IS some kernel of truth to what she's dancing around with Cloud in the ending and her spirit's now tied to the Forgotten Capital so she can't leave it anymore or whatever.
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Mar 6, 2024 22:23
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nine-gear crow posted:I've got a weird feeling that if they do Return to the Forgotten Capital in Part 3, instead of seeing the weird magical DVD player footage of Aerith to reverse engineer what the hell was up with the White Materia and what she was doing when she died, that would be the point where Aerith's ghost just reveals herself to the rest of the party and flat out tells them what's going on. Because, who knows, maybe there IS some kernel of truth to what she's dancing around with Cloud in the ending and her spirit's now tied to the Forgotten Capital so she can't leave it anymore or whatever. If nothing else I really suspect the "Cloud puts Aerith's body into the water" scene is going to be part of his memories.
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Mar 6, 2024 22:28
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How are they going to top the Jenova remix in the last game? It is insanely good in this one. Before the final fight I was wondering how they'd handle the multi-party Jenova fight at the very end of the OG FF7, then I got to the fight in this one and "Oh, okay like that"
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Mar 6, 2024 23:18
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Question: in the original, you have the brother and sister in Nibelheim (with the very young brother trying to repeat what his sister says), and you can also find them in Rebirth. However, in the original you can later find two kid-sized black cloaks which are obviously the same pair, but I think they are not in Rebirth. Am I right or did anyone find them?
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Mar 7, 2024 00:01
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I don't think I saw them. Aside: they changed Aerith's last line in Remake to "This sky... I don't like it." Did she see the hosed up sky like Cloud sees it at the ending the entire time? I know they changed some aspects of Remake to line up better with Rebirth (Tifa's flashback outfit for one).
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Mar 7, 2024 01:29
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Azubah posted:I don't think I saw them. In this particular case, no. It's actually something that was a part of her character since at least Crisis Core, where she has a significant bunch of dialogue with Zack about how she just doesn't like the sky. This is because she's a Cetra with a direct hotline to the planet and the Planet, between the Gi Tribe and Jenova, does not loving like space. So she says she finds the sky uncomfortable. It was a sign of her trust towards Zack because Zack wanted to show her a sky that was beautiful. (And in fact one of Zack's last lines of dialogue is him talking about how he felt bad that Aerith was scared of the sky because to him it was so beautiful.) It gets mentioned again in Rebirth and I assume they wanted to make it line up. (That said, the weird sky COULD be connected to it.)
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Mar 7, 2024 03:03
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This is probably a pretty minor question in the scale of things, but I guess my question is- when cloud slots in the black materia at the end and the buster sword kinda shimmers, was that supposed to be something weird happening or is that kinda just what always happens when you put materia in a weapon
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Mar 7, 2024 18:30
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I think it's a weird thing because you see actual material slotted into the sword.
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Mar 7, 2024 18:32
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No Mods No Masters posted:This is probably a pretty minor question in the scale of things, but I guess my question is- when cloud slots in the black materia at the end and the buster sword kinda shimmers, was that supposed to be something weird happening or is that kinda just what always happens when you put materia in a weapon I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be something weird but I assume it's just "Cloud is hiding the Materia in a place nobody can see" and it works because loving magic.
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Mar 7, 2024 18:38
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Maybe I just lost track of it in the sensory overload but I guess I just don't really get what was up with the black materia in general. Aerith said it was a fake (I guess maybe she was just lying?), why would that be, did it become real at some point somehow, I mean it seems like meteor is getting casted anyway
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Mar 7, 2024 18:51
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No Mods No Masters posted:Maybe I just lost track of it in the sensory overload but I guess I just don't really get what was up with the black materia in general. Aerith said it was a fake (I guess maybe she was just lying?), why would that be, did it become real at some point somehow, I mean it seems like meteor is getting casted anyway The Black Materia they get inside the temple is fake. The Temple itself is the real Black Materia. (This is also true to the original FF7 where the Temple of the Ancients was the real Black Materia too and was designed to kill whoever solved the puzzles to claim it.) The 'fake' Black Materia had to be taken for the real Black Materia to be gotten. Sephiroth fucks around with Cloud but Sephiroth isn't really there. (Again, also true of the original FF7, where it's a Jenova piece/clone that takes it from Cloud instead.) The entire point of that scene is just to force Cloud to obey Sephiroth (as shown when Sephiroth 'creates' the Black Materia and rolls it over to Cloud.) Rebirth seems to be trimming out the game of hot potato with the Black Materia and just have a Sephiroth-tainted Cloud have the thing the entire time but keeping it secret, with Sephiroth's end goal to make Cloud bring it to him in the Northern Crater. It's a bit convoluted but so is Sephiroth's original plan in FF7 where Jenvoa just sort of sits around with the Materia until it gets beaten, then Sephiroth tricks Barret/Red to bringing it to Cloud who hands it over, so I'm guessing they're just settling on "Sephiroth needs Cloud to bring the Materia to him for whatever reason." Basically: The Black Materia inside the temple that they have to take is Fake. Taking it triggers the self destruct, which makes the Temple itself turn into the Black Materia. (This is intended to kill whoever tries to take it.) In FF7, Cloud flips out and hands the Black Materia over to Jenova-in-Sephiroth-Form. In Rebirth, Sephiroth fucks around with Cloud and literally makes him retrieve the Materia like a puppy. Post everything, it turns out Cloud still has the Black Materia, but he wasn't aware of it because Brain Issues. He talks like Sephiroth and shoves it into his sword and odds are good he literally doesn't even remember he has it and won't until poo poo goes bad at the Northern Crater. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Mar 7, 2024 |
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Mar 7, 2024 19:13
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0OE91PSdCw I watched this video, which goes through the plot of every game in the FF7 universe, and I think I'm even more confused now. There's just so much information to take in since I didn't play a lot of these games myself. I think I need to watch the video multiple times and take notes to understand it lol Though seeing what happens in the end of OG FF7 makes me excited to see how they handle that in the third remake game. Also, Hojo is Sephiroth's dad? gently caress Hojo!
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Mar 7, 2024 22:13
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Rageaholic posted:Also, Hojo is Sephiroth's dad? gently caress Hojo! That last thing is revealed in OG FFVII, just fyi. It is just like one line and doesn't go anywhere unless you recruited Vincent, though.
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Mar 7, 2024 22:19
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NikkolasKing posted:That last thing is revealed in OG FFVII, just fyi. It is just like one line and doesn't go anywhere unless you recruited Vincent, though. 
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Mar 7, 2024 22:22
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NikkolasKing posted:That last thing is revealed in OG FFVII, just fyi. It is just like one line and doesn't go anywhere unless you recruited Vincent, though. If by "go nowhere" you mean "Hojo literally hijacks the Sister Ray so he can shoot a bunch of energy to Sephiroth and you have to go and stop him" because, and I quote "My son is in need of power and help. ...That's the only reason." Like it is the entire reason you return to Midgar. Hojo declares that Sephiroth has eclipsed even science and he wants to help his son so he's going to shoot a shitload of Mako directly to Sephiroth to power him up.
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Mar 7, 2024 22:23
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ImpAtom posted:If by "go nowhere" you mean "Hojo literally hijacks the Sister Ray so he can shoot a bunch of energy to Sephiroth and you have to go and stop him" because, and I quote "My son is in need of power and help. ...That's the only reason." I mean...Hojo dies and becomes irrelevant immediately after he says it. No one ever mentions it again. That's how it goes nowhere. I can easily see why someone forgot one or two lines in a JRPG that have zero follow up of any kind.
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Mar 7, 2024 23:42
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NikkolasKing posted:I mean...Hojo dies and becomes irrelevant immediately after he says it. No one ever mentions it again. That's how it goes nowhere. I can easily see why someone forgot one or two lines in a JRPG that have zero follow up of any kind. Because the game literally ends directly after that. Nobody mentions it because aside from wandering around breeding chocobos and collecting Materia the party is at the end of the game.
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Mar 7, 2024 23:48
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how does a character dying as a direct result of something make it 'irrelevant' its a fact that leads directly to a secondary antagonist's actions in the third act and those actions result in his death. that isnt irrelevant. thats a completed plot point. what else do you want
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Mar 7, 2024 23:57
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ImpAtom posted:Because the game literally ends directly after that. Nobody mentions it because aside from wandering around breeding chocobos and collecting Materia the party is at the end of the game. Sure, I don't dispute any of that. I was just saying that, with Vincent, the lines have a lot more context and weight. Otherwise, as you yourself just said, "Hojo says the lines, game rushes to the end, roll credits." It can get easily lost in everything else happening with no wider impact(especially if you only played it once, as the OP added later), which is why Vincent and Lucrecia sort of give it that. For twenty years I've seen fans puzzled Vincent is even optional given how much context he adds to the main villain's backstory.
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Mar 7, 2024 23:58
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Finished it up tonight. Easy GOTY, and one of the best I've ever played, even in spite of its flaws which were mostly around pacing. I need to digest the ending and get my own perspective on it. The death fakeout honestly had me for a moment and I kept losing my poo poo over every single final boss phase. The only surprising thing is that there wasn't a lot in the way of the Zack timeline, in that it wasn't a hugely substantial amount of the game. I looked up a video and it's less than an hour? But even if he's dead in the Pug Stamp timeline, presumably he's still alive in the other one? I dunno. I guess there's like five different Stamps now. I'd be inclined to think that he could be playable in some form in the last game because he clearly has some semblance of a playable toolkit that's differentiated from Cloud, what with the whole charging mechanic. I get why Cid and Vincent weren't playable, but I'm surprised at least the latter didn't even act as a guest at some point. Time to count down the days until January 31st, 2027. Cloud + Tifa is canon
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Mar 9, 2024 06:43
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Rageaholic posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0OE91PSdCw No no no see what you want to watch is this monstrosity of a goonpost in video form: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvYAqmQL8KU It goes off on some frankly wild tangents (tessellation) but there is some good to be mined, as there is some interesting analysis of all of the themes throughout the various FF7 games. I think he's got something with the all-white void being a reality inside of the lifestream and the all-black void being the same but for the black lifestream, as seen in Advent Children. This fits with the white vs black whispers fighting that we see in Rebirth, which I think is setting up geostigma in AC much better. But mostly watch it so you can feel like your level of interest in the story of FF7 is normal and fine compared to some. I've seen some discussion of the Aerith "ghost" at the end of Rebirth in this thread, and she didn't come off as a ghost to me. I feel like she is actually the other world Aerith that only Cloud can see because of whatever that Aerith did to help Cloud in the final Sephiroth fight of Rebirth. This attuned the other world's Aerith and this Cloud together in a way that will allow her and Zack to be present at the end of game 3 for the final showdown. Or maybe I've watched/read way too many theories in the run up to Rebirth.
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Mar 9, 2024 06:44
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I do find "other world aerith" a bit more of a supported interpretation than "ghost aerith". But then if it's anything like remake 1's ending I feel like it needs some supporting interviews to give a little more detail about what they were going for before you can be really confident any which way
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Mar 9, 2024 06:49
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Caseman posted:No no no see what you want to watch is this monstrosity of a goonpost in video form: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvYAqmQL8KU  Alright, I'm ready to get lost. Let's goooooooooo
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Mar 9, 2024 18:01
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I could see the comatose body as a spare for Aerith after she gets shanked and it can't meaningfully interact with the others unless they went to the dead timeline.
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Mar 9, 2024 18:15
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I think there's still some kind of lifestream thing going on with the multiple worlds which is why Aerith can navigate it and how Biggs got moved over by the whispers. To that end, it could just be a device to move the plot along and justify Zack + Aerith lifestream hijinks in part three as they fight off whatever Sephiroth bullshit there is so the lifestream can fight off the meteor, which is what I theorized would happen before this came out. They clearly built out some form of a playable Zack and both characters are far too popular amongst the fanbase, so there's zero reason to waste their toolkits from a gameplay perspective when you can flesh out that narrative. Even Aerith's dialogue at the end basically says "I'll figure this poo poo out on my end, you do your thing" to Cloud.
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Mar 9, 2024 18:36
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It annoys me more than it should that you get fan-serviced to hell at the end of the game and they have to throw in a Rufus scene with a mobile game character. Like does a single person give a poo poo about seeing that? Also for whatever reason it never clicked with me that I guess Tifa has to flash Cloud when she shows him her scar. Should have been more minigames around that.
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Mar 9, 2024 19:21
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I think the glenn scene is more there to set up the presumable wutai plot in remake 3 than to fanservice anybody, but yeah of course I don't know if that wutai plot should really have glennphiroth as a foundation
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Mar 9, 2024 19:23
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Do the Whispers get explained or developed at all in this game? They were one of my grievances with the first game. Their addition didn't seem to add anything to the plot, beyond aligning some narrative beats.
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Mar 9, 2024 19:28
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The Dave posted:It annoys me more than it should that you get fan-serviced to hell at the end of the game and they have to throw in a Rufus scene with a mobile game character. Like does a single person give a poo poo about seeing that? The Glenn/Rufus stuff is obviously setting up for an extended Wutai plot in the third game, and is there to emphasize to the players why going to Wutai might actually be a necessary part of the plot rather than a diversion since Yuffie is now mandatory instead of optional. I don't think it needs a loving mobile game character as the focus but maybe they'll make me give a poo poo. Rebirth certainly didn't though.
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Mar 9, 2024 19:29
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DarkLich posted:Do the Whispers get explained or developed at all in this game? Yeah, pretty directly.
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Mar 9, 2024 19:42
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I finally finished my first playthrough, took about 100 hours to finish the main story plus every single sidequest, minigame high score, cards etc. I hope hard mode has new QB opponents. I'm glad Cloud saved Aerith and everything's gonna be ok. It's weird that the party is acting so sad though The Cid + Vincent side story DLC is gonna be dope
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Mar 9, 2024 23:45
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Just finished it. Probably obvious but, the stuff with Cloud merging the black materia into his sword is supposed to show that Sephiroth still has influence on him right?
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Mar 10, 2024 03:35
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Just finished it. Probably obvious but, the stuff with Cloud merging the black materia into his sword is supposed to show that Sephiroth still has influence on him right? Yep. He gets a green flash and mumbles 'The reunion'. I honestly expect the last game to make it clear not even Cloud knows he has it
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Mar 10, 2024 03:57
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Just finished it. Probably obvious but, the stuff with Cloud merging the black materia into his sword is supposed to show that Sephiroth still has influence on him right? No, he's fine. He even says so.
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Mar 10, 2024 04:26
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Cloud is the sanest person in the game. It’s everyone else who’s crazy. 
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Mar 10, 2024 04:28
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He's not crazy. You're crazy. The whole drat system is crazy! He's the only sane one. It's only sane to give Sephiroth the black materia. Reunion. Re... un... nion...
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Mar 10, 2024 04:35
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Tifa is the most stable person in the game considering the insane amount of poo poo she's been through.
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Mar 10, 2024 06:38
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