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zoux posted:No! the fool Biden is revealing our hover troop capabilities! Biden's Sardaukar
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Mar 7, 2024 19:00
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selec posted:It’s completely embarrassing that we have to use all our battlefield logistical capabilities for aid when our supposed ally could just allow us to send aid in via the road. I wonder if Bibi enjoys humiliating Biden more than Biden seems to love making excuses for poo poo like this. I am struggling to imagine any other president deciding to do this instead of dropping Bibi from a plane or something
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Mar 7, 2024 19:00
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Shammypants posted:As incompetent as we like to think Biden is sometimes, I can’t imagine this isn’t already a done deal. Doesn't matter. Bibi would vastly prefer a Trump presidency and has every incentive to sabotage Biden. He also has a track record of ordering literally every single other attempt to help Gazans be blown up. So . . .
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Mar 7, 2024 19:01
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selec posted:It’s completely embarrassing that we have to use all our battlefield logistical capabilities for aid when our supposed ally could just allow us to send aid in via the road. I wonder if Bibi enjoys humiliating Biden more than Biden seems to love making excuses for poo poo like this. i mean we use the military to provide that kind of food/medical/water aid all the time in countries including allies(lovely or otherwise). its not a new thing.
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Mar 7, 2024 19:04
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rscott posted:It's supposedly coordinated with the IDF but I still think there's a non zero chance of American casualties and it's still incredibly bizarre that this is the tact that Biden is taking instead of cutting off economic aid and arms shipments to Israel If one wants to feed a very large number of people asap and the Israelis aren’t cooperating this is the way one would need to do it. This means they think a very large number of people were going to starve to death soon and that the Israelis weren’t going to let anybody stop it. “Coordinate” here is likely we are telling you what we are going to do and where, stay the gently caress out of our way. This isn’t the we talked and agreed and are working together choice.
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Mar 7, 2024 19:04
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Bar Ran Dun posted:That’s one extremely “technically true” is the best kind of true rear end assertion from them there. 
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Mar 7, 2024 19:04
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rscott posted:It's supposedly coordinated with the IDF but I still think there's a non zero chance of American casualties and it's still incredibly bizarre that this is the tact that Biden is taking instead of cutting off economic aid and arms shipments to Israel See also UNRWA funding, where technically the US isn't cutting off aid to Palestinians but redirecting it to other organizations. Even as other countries backtrack, Biden is firm on a plan that is obviously futile because other groups don't have the infrastructure or capability in Gaza that UNRWA has. It's preferable that Palestinians starve to death than for Biden to call Israel out on its lies and distortions.
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Mar 7, 2024 19:07
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/JenniferJJacobs/status/1765785363111428389  Shammypants posted:As incompetent as we like to think Biden is sometimes, I can’t imagine this isn’t already a done deal. zoux posted:No! the fool Biden is revealing our hover troop capabilities! https://i.imgur.com/AratCPB.mp4
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Mar 7, 2024 19:09
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Doesn't matter. Bibi would vastly prefer a Trump presidency and has every incentive to sabotage Biden. He also has a track record of ordering literally every single other attempt to help Gazans be blown up. So . . . I think Israel blowing up the US military deliberately would be a really good way to ensure 0 arms are ever traded to Israel from the US again. They can blow up the Egyptian crossing or NGO trucks because they aren't supplying anything Israel wants or needs - but regardless of how much of a Zionist Biden is, there's no universe where "US bombs killing US soldiers" wouldn't be the immediate headline and US popular sentiment about Israel would go like 20% down. The idea that Trump would somehow continue to support them with arms after that is absurd - Israel is an ally of convenience, he doesn't give a poo poo about countries in the Middle East and some large chunk of his voters believe in Jewish NWO conspiracies, he'd be fine playing the tough guy against Israel just like he'll play the tough guy with North Korea, Iran, or Hamas.
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Mar 7, 2024 19:13
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Bar Ran Dun posted:If one wants to feed a very large number of people asap and the Israelis aren’t cooperating this is the way one would need to do it. I think it's probably quicker to use the existing roads and border crossings than it is to set up a port which will take "weeks" per every report I've seen, but I guess that's just me
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Mar 7, 2024 19:15
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rscott posted:It's supposedly coordinated with the IDF but I still think there's a non zero chance of American casualties and it's still incredibly bizarre that this is the tact that Biden is taking instead of cutting off economic aid and arms shipments to Israel Are economic aid and arms shipments exclusively controlled by the executive branch, or is that part of legal budgets passed by Congress (the law of the land)? mobby_6kl posted:No, like, actually blow up, with bombs. Would it be reasonable for Bibi to believe that blowing up a US ship docked in Gaza (or at least shooting bombs near it) would increase his chances of remaining Israel's PM?
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Mar 7, 2024 19:16
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BougieBitch posted:I think Israel blowing up the US military deliberately would be a really good way to ensure 0 arms are ever traded to Israel from the US again. They can blow up the Egyptian crossing or NGO trucks because they aren't supplying anything Israel wants or needs - but regardless of how much of a Zionist Biden is, there's no universe where "US bombs killing US soldiers" wouldn't be the immediate headline and US popular sentiment about Israel would go like 20% down. The idea that Trump would somehow continue to support them with arms after that is absurd - Israel is an ally of convenience, he doesn't give a poo poo about countries in the Middle East and some large chunk of his voters believe in Jewish NWO conspiracies, he'd be fine playing the tough guy against Israel just like he'll play the tough guy with North Korea, Iran, or Hamas. It wouldn't be the first time. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident That said just because it's a spectacularly bad idea doesn't mean bibi isn't dumb enough to do it.
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Mar 7, 2024 19:17
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Dapper_Swindler posted:she is such a loving idiot. the dems of NY are hosed if some kinda charasmaric rockafeller republican ever runs. Holchul is a big charisma vacuum and has a fairly conservative background. She's definitely a product of the Cuomo machine era.
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Mar 7, 2024 19:19
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Are economic aid and arms shipments exclusively controlled by the executive branch, or is that part of legal budgets passed by Congress (the law of the land)? If something is an 'arms sale' its almost totally controlled by the executive branch within loose limits set by Congress, since its technically a private sale regulated by the government. However that does require an outside source of money, even if its something as circular as the US sending money to Israel so that Israel can buy US weapons (in effect a US subsidy to the US arms industry). Arms shipments directly from US military stockpiles are much more controlled and limited in scale, which is why significant military aide to Ukraine has required legislation and has essentially ground to a halt with congressional republicans turning against Ukraine.
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Mar 7, 2024 19:20
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The clancychat analysis would be Biden knows Israel will eventually strike the base and give him the cover he needs to demand a ceasefire.
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Mar 7, 2024 19:26
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rscott posted:I think it's probably quicker to use the existing roads and border crossings than it is to set up a port which will take "weeks" per every report I've seen, but I guess that's just me Seems like a good developmetn and trying so it's pretty weird to see the unironic "this is bad for Biden" takes Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Would it be reasonable for Bibi to believe that blowing up a US ship docked in Gaza (or at least shooting bombs near it) would increase his chances of remaining Israel's PM?
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Mar 7, 2024 19:26
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:It wouldn't be the first time. That's really far from a parallel - Israel was engaged in an actual declared war, the position of the ship in question was not communicated to Israel, several statements ahead of the attack gave the appearance of a denial that the ship was US military. None of that applies here - Biden is telling people worldwide that the ship is going to be there, well in advance of arrival, and making clear what purpose it will be serving there. There is no plausible deniability here for Israel, there is no Hamas naval team for the ship to be confused with and there is no ambiguity to leverage. There are a lot of things the government is willing to overlook when other nations do things to each other, and when it comes to spies and unofficial missions there's incentive to cover your rear end, but none of that applies here and it would be the easiest way to turn the corner and become a UN pariah
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Mar 7, 2024 19:28
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:If something is an 'arms sale' its almost totally controlled by the executive branch within loose limits set by Congress, since its technically a private sale regulated by the government. However that does require an outside source of money, even if its something as circular as the US sending money to Israel so that Israel can buy US weapons (in effect a US subsidy to the US arms industry). Fair enough, I am now better informed, so thank you. mobby_6kl posted:Seems like a good developmetn and trying so it's pretty weird to see the unironic "this is bad for Biden" takes It's almost as if people are putting a higher priority on posting negative Biden takes than they are on the good the shipments will do for the people of Gaza. Curious.
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Mar 7, 2024 19:31
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mobby_6kl posted:The existing border crossings are used to deliver aid already. Ships are generally much better for moving large volumes of cargo (which is why Ukraine is trying to secure the sea routes out rather than ship everything by land) and can help distribute aid from other entry points. This has a built-in assumption that this is happening in addition to US aid coming in over the road, and that this is about adding to that capacity. Am I reading that right? 1. Is US aid coming in via the existing roads? Why or why not? 2. Is it cost effective to build a temporary pier, or are there other drivers behind why we’re doing this rather than using existing transportation infrastructure? My read is that Biden is doing this because he refuses to order Bibi to get the settlers away from the border crossings, either because he doesn’t want to, Bibi wouldn’t do it anyway, or Bibi can’t do it. The Best Case for doing this is to add capacity to existing aid going in through existing channels, but I don’t think that’s what is actually going on. But I think the answers to those two questions would provide a lot of clarity.
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Mar 7, 2024 19:32
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selec posted:It’s completely embarrassing that we have to use all our battlefield logistical capabilities for aid when our supposed ally could just allow us to send aid in via the road. I wonder if Bibi enjoys humiliating Biden more than Biden seems to love making excuses for poo poo like this. Boats are way more efficient at bulk transport of large amounts of stuff than roads are. All this aid would normally be coming in by boat in the first place. The only reason it's been trucked in from neighboring countries up to this point is that Israel has refused to allow any sort of sea transport to Gaza's coasts, at all, ever. Until now, anyway! That alone makes this a big deal.
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Mar 7, 2024 19:33
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Here’s what this means: The Israelis (are) were really going to starve everybody in Gaza to death, almost 600,000 people. This stops that, this creates the physical logistics system capable of feeding that many people, but I very much don’t see this being likely to continue if Biden loses the election. The US election now has existential consequences for Gaza. It’s now very clear that one candidate is worse in the issue than the other. If they are willing to do this, they (the Biden administration) are likely (but clearly 100% not publicly) threatening the Israelis with other consequences.
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Mar 7, 2024 19:34
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FizFashizzle posted:The clancychat analysis would be Biden knows Israel will eventually strike the base and give him the cover he needs to demand a ceasefire. he learned 12d chess from his friend barack obama
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Mar 7, 2024 19:34
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mobby_6kl posted:Wait didn't they say they were going to do this for Ukraine? No they aren’t and were never ever going to do this in Black Sea.
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Mar 7, 2024 19:36
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The Washington Post has a new article about US sales of weapons since October 7. It seems a little counterproductive to sell them weapons and try to set up a port or airdrop because they're killing too many people with the weapons they were sold. However, one must admit Biden's commitment to procedure and his generosity in regularly briefing other officials even when formal notification is not a legal requirement -- these are among the things we might lose if we lose Biden. U.S. floods arms into Israel despite mounting alarm over war’s conduct www.washingtonpost.com - Thu, 07 Mar 2024 posted:The United States has quietly approved and delivered more than 100 separate foreign military sales to Israel since the Israel-Hamas war began Oct. 7, amounting to thousands of precision-guided munitions, small-diameter bombs, bunker busters, small arms and other lethal aid, U.S. officials told members of Congress in a recent classified briefing.
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Mar 7, 2024 19:36
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i mean we use the military to provide that kind of food/medical/water aid all the time in countries including allies(lovely or otherwise). its not a new thing. Yeah as far as such things go "delivering aid" is among the best possible ways to spend the otherwise sunk cost that is the American military.
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Mar 7, 2024 19:37
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mawarannahr posted:It seems a little counterproductive to sell them weapons and try to set up a port or airdrop because they're killing too many people with the weapons they were sold. The arms sales and arms supply chains go in both directions, if one direction stops both directions will likely stop.
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Mar 7, 2024 19:50
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Google Jeb Bush posted:while failed state warlords in general are pretty fun, I do appreciate that Mr Barbecue in his interview with a journalist just straight up went "a lot of people are asking questions about my 'I don't routinely burn people to death in public' t-shirt that are answered by the shirt" mr cherizier's barbequing days are in his past. Now as chief of fos revolisyone G9 he just guts people in the street X
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Mar 7, 2024 19:54
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BougieBitch posted:That's really far from a parallel - Israel was engaged in an actual declared war, the position of the ship in question was not communicated to Israel, several statements ahead of the attack gave the appearance of a denial that the ship was US military. I agree with what you're saying, I just want to chuckle at the idea of Israel caring about being a UN pariah, as if they aren't already.
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Mar 7, 2024 19:56
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Why can't can't the U.S. just ship in food through Egypt, also a loyal American proxy receiving an enormous sum of aid every year? Either you believe the most powerful country in human history is actually so impotent it can't run a truck into Gaza or you know how Genocide Joe earned that nickname.
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Mar 7, 2024 19:59
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Didn't Egypt pretty much refuse to get into any situation where their troops or people might get into harms way in front of the IDF? I apologize if this is not the right thread, but I haven't read anything about any of Israel's direct neighbors itching to get that involved with helping the Gazans.
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Mar 7, 2024 20:04
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Well they made some noise but then the U.S. sent the CIA director to Cairo to straighten them out. Accepting that the only way to get food to a million starving children is via sea or air is simply accepting the genocide as a fait accompli itself.
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Mar 7, 2024 20:07
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DynamicSloth posted:Why can't can't the U.S. just ship in food through Egypt, also a loyal American proxy receiving an enormous sum of aid every year? Why don’t you think through the physical process, the actual logistics of doing that and answer your own question? Cause there’s a very obvious answer.
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Mar 7, 2024 20:10
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DynamicSloth posted:Accepting that the only way to get food to a million starving children is via sea or air is simply accepting the genocide as a fait accompli itself. I think you should support this assertion.
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Mar 7, 2024 20:15
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selec posted:This has a built-in assumption that this is happening in addition to US aid coming in over the road, and that this is about adding to that capacity. Am I reading that right? Other people already responded in various ways but Israel is (if in a good mood) very slowly inspecting aid trucks and (if in a bad mood) blockading aid trucks, leading to a fraction of the aid that reaches the border actually getting across. Israeli shithead protesters setting up blockades in their own right isn't helping and Israel doesn't much care to get off its butts and expel them, because Israel is basically fine with starving Gaza. The US is still providing aid via USAID, a smattering of NGOs, and (non-UNRWA) UN agencies, but is some combination of unable and unwilling to get Israel to stop blockading the land routes. Aid is in fact also crossing at Egypt's Rafah border crossing, but even though it's notionally not crossing Israeli land, Israel still exerts some control over it and Egypt doesn't really want to pick too much of a fight about it. There are also apparently some logistical hurdles. https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231103-the-gaza-egypt-rafah-crossing-explained-it-is-not-a-normal-border
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Mar 7, 2024 20:21
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i mean we use the military to provide that kind of food/medical/water aid all the time in countries including allies(lovely or otherwise). its not a new thing. Do you have any examples of this sort of delivery happening when both a) many the people getting aid delivered to them (very reasonably) hate us, and also b) the entity in military control of the area is generally opposed to aid being delivered to the people? To me, (a) means a very substantial security presence is required, which means American troops in Gaza, OR due to (b) the security is provided by Israeli forces, which means meaningful quantities of this aid will not reach the starving people of Gaza. Or, none of this is going to happen in the first place. Just like how the recent supposed ceasefire agreement did not actually happen, and how Israeli hostilities ending by the new year did not actually happen.
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Mar 7, 2024 20:21
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koolkal posted:Not sure if I would use her wording but that race was insane. Schiff got so much money poured into him that he spent more on promoting Garvey than Garvey spent on himself. A Schiff vs Porter race and a Schiff vs Garvey race are equally likely to be won by a Democrat (and Schiff and Porter would have the same voting record in the senate), but the Schiff vs Porter race would take in massive amounts of actblue donations that would otherwise go to more competitive states. edit: I'm also unsure you can blame Schiff for this when Porter spent 20 million dollars and finished 19 points behind Garvey, who spent 1 million. James Garfield fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Mar 7, 2024 |
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Mar 7, 2024 20:27
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Best Friends posted:Do you have any examples of this sort of delivery happening when both a) many the people getting aid delivered to them (very reasonably) hate us, and also b) the entity in military control of the area is generally opposed to aid being delivered to the people? To me, (a) means a very substantial security presence is required, which means American troops in Gaza, OR due to (b) the security is provided by Israeli forces, which means meaningful quantities of this aid will not reach the starving people of Gaza. Somalia was exactly the same scenario on a much bigger scale. US aid basically kept millions of people from starving and worked really well until Blackhawk Down happened. Hopefully, this one either doesn't have a Blackhawk Down moment or at least also produces a best picture contending film based on the incident.
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Mar 7, 2024 20:30
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You don't even really need the locals to hate you to require some amount of security presence, just a breakdown of lawn order / civil society. That's part of why humanitarian aid groups are somewhat dismissive of the air drop strategy: even assuming the US fields more planes and supplies than what they happened to find in the couch cushions (jury's out), you have no real way to ensure efficient and equitable distribution of the supplies. Some percentage of people are going to try to take more supplies than they need either to hoard them for later use (reasonable, but not great for the next people over who are starving that very day) or sell them at a premium (very bad). The Gazan government is having some trouble getting enough dudes around and unexploded to provide security so it's a sticky problem.
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Mar 7, 2024 20:31
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Best Friends posted:Do you have any examples of this sort of delivery happening when both a) many the people getting aid delivered to them (very reasonably) hate us, and also b) the entity in military control of the area is generally opposed to aid being delivered to the people? To me, (a) means a very substantial security presence is required, which means American troops in Gaza, OR due to (b) the security is provided by Israeli forces, which means meaningful quantities of this aid will not reach the starving people of Gaza. This is basically just a big floating pier over a shoreline. Ship ties up lowers a ramp trucks drive on at a loading port. Drivers stay on the vessel. I’m guessing the port here but there’s a NYK RO-RO terminal in Port Said that would work, that’s where I’d pick up. Ship drops the ramp at the floating pier in Gaza trucks with the drivers drive off. It would relatively brief event, drop the ramp trucks drive off pickup the ramp, vessel leaves. If it’s deep enough for the multi purpose vessel it’s deep enough for a navy escort to be right there.
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Mar 7, 2024 20:43
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mobby_6kl posted:The existing border crossings are used to deliver aid already. Ships are generally much better for moving large volumes of cargo (which is why Ukraine is trying to secure the sea routes out rather than ship everything by land) and can help distribute aid from other entry points. It's a good development in as much as it will hopefully prevent people from dying from starvation but it does literally nothing to stop the less hungry people dying from indiscriminate strikes. It does nothing to end the genocidal campaign the Biden administration has been materially supporting and shielding from consequences internationally. That's why it's bizarre!
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Mar 7, 2024 20:52
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