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Well, I switched my home host over to Proxmox. Some of it's a bit clunkier (like the UI doesn't seem to have any way to assign roles to groups, so I had to do that via the CLI, and the VM creation process has a lot of extra stuff to click that would be nice to be able to set as defaults), but so far, it seems to work OK. I do appreciate that they offer OpenID connect as an auth mechanism and ACME for cert generation. Those were relatively easy to set up, except for some of their field names being a little confusing. I guess I'll see whether I get any weird behavior or instability over the long term, but at least from my initial impressions on a single-host setup, this seems to be usable.
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Feb 18, 2024 20:50
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Moey posted:Also, any thoughts on what is going to happen with Horizon? I also run a 400+ seat VDI environment. Hopefully they don't try and rip away the included underlying ESXi licensing for the horizon hosts. Our rep has warned us to expect WorkspaceOne and the Horizon stack to be spun off into a separate company within the next couple years.
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Feb 18, 2024 22:01
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Welcome to the legacy systems meeting everyone. Well get started here in a minute, but first! We have some new faces! Everybody, these are the VMware people! Welcome! Donuts and coffee are over there on the side thanks to Wanda from the VMS group thanks Wanda! Ok as a quick intro these guys ignoring me and arguing with each other are the UNIX grognards, arguing about SystemV vs BSD. Those folks are the Netware people, aaaand those guys are the mainframe guys. Oo and Wanda, VMS, yup… Me? Oh im the telco guy. I did copper line work.
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Feb 18, 2024 23:07
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Kreeblah posted:Well, I switched my home host over to Proxmox. Some of it's a bit clunkier (like the UI doesn't seem to have any way to assign roles to groups, so I had to do that via the CLI, and the VM creation process has a lot of extra stuff to click that would be nice to be able to set as defaults), but so far, it seems to work OK. Windows guests? I hear those can be an issue with Proxmox
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Feb 19, 2024 12:44
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SlowBloke posted:Renewal deadlines for perpetual SnS is February if our VAR are not lying, afterwards you can only buy new subscriptions. Until the recent changes at the end of last year, you could still purchase perpetual subs and the attached SnS, VAR scored a lot of fresh sales once the Broadcom acquisition news went public. Yeah, I pulled our renewal from 12/23. "Horizon 8 Standard Term per Concurrent User 1 year term license". So we have still avoided the Horizon Universal (or any previous short lived naming schemes) that our revolving door of VMware reps have tried to push. Since my budget is already destroyed, might as well try and tack on another year or two of SnS at the "when I was young" price if possible. I've been happy with Horizon, was in the middle of doing App Volume packaging/testing for a shift for some departments over to Instant Clones (from persistent desktops) and sneak in a little W10 to W11 change-up. Probably slow that down until we figure out who is buying the EUC stuff. afflictionwisp posted:Our rep has warned us to expect WorkspaceOne and the Horizon stack to be spun off into a separate company within the next couple years. Meh, for our minimal use case and how wide of a feature set they keep shoving into WSOne (and complex it has grown to since the AirWatch dats), I am fine with it. Without even looking into the actual product. I have already made up my mind on "Simple MDM" based on the name alone. But I am sure we will have Intune blindly shoved into our laps due to having E3 licenses across the org. Yay. I swear every day I am one step closer to rage quitting because they took away our tiny departments Slack paid subscription and have forced us to teams. Hopefully these folks don't remember that Teams can technically be a pbx/phone system too. We had another blind management decision to migrate from on-prem voip over to Zoom a few years back. Its fine functionally, and cheap Yealink phones are actually nice quality/features set, but we wen't from paying nearly nothing for old system to paying more than nothing annually. the spyder posted:Yes. Yes we are. I highly recommend exploring alternatives, regardless of the pricing. I dare even say HyperV if you're looking to leverage Datacenter Server 2022/2025 licensing. Yeah, I run datacenter licensing across all my server VM hosts as well (a fraction of your environment tho). With my planned hardware refresh in 2024, I would end up with like 320 cores for my server workloads. I budgeted like $10k for the existing vSphere standard SnS, $40k up upgrade a "primary production" cluster of hosts to Enterprise Plus, and maybe like $100k for Windows Datacenter licensing. Probably going to end up re-allocating the Enterprise Plus and Datacenter Licensing moola. Continue with host upgrades (and some fancy new switches, going 10gbe to 25gbe for my collapsed core route/switch virtual chassis) and squeeze in a year or two of Horizon SnS, old pricing was only like $10/user/year for support (but don't want to extend too far with the unknown new owner). Windows Datacenter licensing will just get re-budgeted for 2025 (would have waited until fall when Server 2025 drops anyway). Still a slight panic while trying to sort out these numbers I had to submit back in June of '23. At least our finance and upper management is good, so if do need more cash, a budget amendment should go through without issue. Anyone have to janitor XCP-NG? Is that any more "enterprise ready" than Proxmox? Edit- I guess whatever the future brings, I'll currently be running on VMware, MS or Citrix for the VDI hosts. Forgot to think about our current vGPU deployment, which has actually been clean/smooth sailing. gently caress you Broadcom. I'm down, let's Occupy Wall Street. Thank you all for attending my ted talk. Moey fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Feb 19, 2024 |
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Feb 19, 2024 13:35
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the spyder posted:Yes. Yes we are. I highly recommend exploring alternatives, regardless of the pricing. I dare even say HyperV if you're looking to leverage Datacenter Server 2022/2025 licensing. They force you into VCF licenses or something?
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Feb 19, 2024 13:56
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just did the napkin math a very recent Dell quote that I got. if my VMware licensing goes up by any more than about 2.1x, I might as well scrap my entire current generation of server hardware and go with somebody who gives you a whole appliance, like Scale Computing or Nutanix. Nutanix in particular might be an interesting choice for one of my gigantic vdi environments God drat it I had just spent five years getting all of our virtualization onto the same platform.
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Feb 19, 2024 14:04
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Potato Salad posted:They force you into VCF licenses or something? Seems likely. Tired of Broadcom's bs
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Feb 19, 2024 14:04
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At least VMware by VMware was giving people good jobs with our license money. The thing that feels worst about this is that the lion's share of the VMware buyout is sitting in the offshore accounts of Michael Dell, his private capital buddies, and a few large investment firms. Some bank in Aruba is flush with like $25B of that sale price. Worthless, unproductive waste. Nope our license money is going to be at $fuckyou cost, and it's going purely to backfill buyout debt, vulture capitalists, and a far reduced workforce. poo poo, remember when VMware laid off much of its dedicated support team in anticipation of buyout, and suddenly their engineers started getting pulled into T1 issues?
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Feb 19, 2024 14:16
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Potato Salad posted:God drat it I had just spent five years getting all of our virtualization onto the same platform. Dont feel too bad, that just takes some of the complexity out of your migration off that platform 
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Feb 19, 2024 14:17
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Moey posted:Anyone have to janitor XCP-NG? Is that any more "enterprise ready" than Proxmox? Its much more enterprise ready. Its basically Citrix Xenserver but without the licensing costs, and you can get 'pro-support' for it: https://xcp-ng.com/
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Feb 19, 2024 16:10
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Potato Salad posted:At least VMware by VMware was giving people good jobs with our license money. VMware had a dedicated support team? The way they treated our tickets, I assumed they just printed them, left on the street, and trusted that someone curious would pick them up and call us.
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Feb 19, 2024 16:58
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HalloKitty posted:Windows guests? I hear those can be an issue with Proxmox Funny you should ask. I just tried Windows 11 last night since I only keep it around for the rare occasions I can't do something on my Mac. Windows seems to work, but it's more of a pain than on VMware. The VMware tools are miles ahead of the VirtIO/QEMU/SPICE poo poo (at least on Windows). I actually had to stop using SPICE and go back to unaccelerated video because SPICE kept freezing* on me. Other than that, and the wonky process of adding a second optical drive to the VM with the VirtIO drivers so that the Windows installer picks them up and can use the hard drive, it seemed fine. I haven't tried anything super extensive with Windows, though. *Something I found about Proxmox when dealing with a hung Windows 11 instance from SPICE issues. If you try to gracefully shut down a VM with the Proxmox UI's "Shutdown" option and that doesn't work (it gets stuck), the force-kill "Stop" option won't work because it can't get a lock on the VM. You need to open up the status of the shutdown operation and cancel it before you can stop the VM. I'd expect the stop operation would kill the shutdown operation on the way, but apparently not. Edit: Oh, one other weird thing I discovered that makes Proxmox fine for home use, but not as good as VMware for enterprise use: what SSO set up through Proxmox actually gets you. You can do most things in the GUI (VM creation, control, etc.), but not everything (hardware passthrough, for example, or running Proxmox updates, since it pops up a shell to run apt-get dist-upgrade), and not everything can be done in the GUI (the only way I was able to figure out how to assign roles to groups was via the CLI). For anything else, you need a user authed by PAM. And, I mean, you can set PAM up with AD or whatever just like you can with any Linux host, but VMware doesn't make you gently caress around with any of that. With VMware, an admin user is an admin user, full stop. With Proxmox, there's a material difference between a non-PAM user (like my OpenID user) and a PAM user, even if the non-PAM user has full admin privileges in Proxmox. Kreeblah fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Feb 20, 2024 |
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Feb 19, 2024 18:46
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Zorak of Michigan posted:VMware had a dedicated support team? The way they treated our tickets, I assumed they just printed them, left on the street, and trusted that someone curious would pick them up and call us. From my climbing partner that was on their VSAN L2 support team a few years ago "They only cared about hitting SLO/SLA. On a live outage and a new sev1 comes in? Management would have them go engage on the new one at the same time and put one on the backburner. Then do it again. They'd eventually get back to people on the slower days or if someone had connections to cry loud enough and get people engaged again." So pretty much what you stated there, print them out and not do anything. My Colorado VMware support contacts I'd utilize periodically are all gone now. The last 6 months of working with Vmware has been frustrating to say the least. Once that Broadcom deal finalized, they pushed those branding changes fast. Vmware.com emails are now Broadcom.com. Made me sad to see
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Mar 3, 2024 00:14
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Zorak of Michigan posted:VMware had a dedicated support team? The way they treated our tickets, I assumed they just printed them, left on the street, and trusted that someone curious would pick them up and call us. They used to. It was friggin great, too.
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Mar 4, 2024 15:24
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Potato Salad posted:They used to. It was friggin great, too. Oh yeah, back in the day, the guys at my workplace to worked with VMware would talk about how wonderful their support was. Never knew how good we had it.
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Mar 4, 2024 16:23
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I work for a midsize healthcare system and our VMware licensing is going from 115k to 280k per year.
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Mar 4, 2024 18:16
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My group is working to get off of VMWare (for reasons stated already). And while there has been discussion on ProxMox, management and some engineers are leaning towards OpenShift/OpenStack as another solution. We currently have Windows and RHEL primarily, so is there reason why OS/OS isn't discussed as a viable alternative?
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Mar 4, 2024 18:45
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Dancing Peasant posted:My group is working to get off of VMWare (for reasons stated already). And while there has been discussion on ProxMox, management and some engineers are leaning towards OpenShift/OpenStack as another solution. I'm repeating secondhand (or worse) information and general community chatter that may not be up to date or reflect reality, but OpenStack has a reputation for being a pain box. It's difficult to deploy well, the integration of different components of it sometimes feel like they're not even part of the same over-arching product vision, and everyone's OpenStack ends up being a unique beast, making ongoing operations of it a pain. A good number of operators feel trapped on it, and I would bet that for a few years now it has not been a common choice for groups setting up a new environment. OpenShift seems much healthier by comparison, but that's k8s and not a complete replacement for clustered virtualization. Twerk from Home fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Mar 4, 2024 |
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Mar 4, 2024 18:52
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Yeah Openshift and Openstack have a lot of promise, but the reality is K8s/Containers are not really a 1 for 1 replacement for virtualization and there's a lot of maturity issues with a lot of Cloud Native stuff like Terraform/K8s.
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Mar 4, 2024 19:12
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Luckily we've got pricing locked in for 2.5 more years (I am sure broadcom will do their best to invalidate this), but lol at going to an ibm product for price relief
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Mar 5, 2024 03:52
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in a well actually posted:Luckily we've got pricing locked in for 2.5 more years (I am sure broadcom will do their best to invalidate this), but lol at going to an ibm product for price relief Admittedly IBM's Red Hat purchase didn't seem to cause any pricing catastrophe and the academic licensing still exists, so at least better than Broadcom.
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Mar 5, 2024 09:56
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If broadcom jacks your costs enough, and you primarily run linux/java based stuff, you can absolutely save money buying a goddamn mainframe from ibm and consolidating everything into it that will fit vs continuing business as usual with broadcom on x86 This is not to say the mainframe is cheap. Lol no of course it isnt. This is to illustrate how bad broadcom is loving you over.
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Mar 5, 2024 12:50
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I would move to a competitor every time even if it didn't save any money compared to sticking with the supplier that just hiked their costs, purely out of spite
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Mar 5, 2024 16:56
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Broadcom is asking for enough that, in a perverse way, I can afford to replace all of my gear for every customer still on vsphere, gratis what the absolute gently caress
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Mar 5, 2024 17:19
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I'm going to laugh if my renewal costs so much that it ends up cheaper to buy a couple of racks worth of servers instead and have one server per role.
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Mar 5, 2024 19:49
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Finally the product manager for 1U PowerEdge can get his sales performance bonus
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Mar 5, 2024 21:24
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Blade servers are back, baby
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Mar 5, 2024 21:48
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fresh_cheese posted:Blade servers are back, baby Hyperconverged time, baby!
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Mar 6, 2024 02:07
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CommieGIR posted:Hyperconverged time, baby! Nutanix is the last enterprise hypervisor standing. Decent support across vendors and tools and it checks the right corporate boxes. Xenserver has a lot of ground to cover before it can be taken seriously and the rest of the field is a KVM based tool but without the backing. Microsoft sells cloud and their only interest in hypervisors is using it as an on ramp. For all of us career virtualization guys, it's either learn a new product or apprentice at the muffler shop bending pipe. Hyperconverged is our last hope.
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Mar 7, 2024 22:45
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Harry_Potato posted:For all of us career virtualization guys, it's either learn a new product or apprentice at the muffler shop bending pipe. Hyperconverged is our last hope. Or you could check your other infrastructure business units to see if there are other track that could provide a way out. Modern AV is almost as bullshit dense as virtualization with managing dante or other weird av tech crowbarred into IP.
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Mar 7, 2024 23:16
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New batch of ESXi/Fusion/Workstation sandbox-escape vulnerabilities, all of them critical: https://arstechnica.com/security/2024/03/vmware-issues-patches-for-critical-sandbox-escape-vulnerabilities/. I've a feeling some poor souls are going to spend the weekend patching. Edit: on closer inspection the vulnerabilities only affect the USB controller so the workaround is to just remove any USB controllers from all your VMs. Pile Of Garbage fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Mar 8, 2024 |
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Mar 8, 2024 01:24
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Pile Of Garbage posted:New batch of ESXi/Fusion/Workstation sandbox-escape vulnerabilities, all of them critical: https://arstechnica.com/security/2024/03/vmware-issues-patches-for-critical-sandbox-escape-vulnerabilities/. I've a feeling some poor souls are going to spend the weekend patching. I will admit, Lifecycle Manager + DRS makes this pretty hands off.
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Mar 8, 2024 04:51
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Harry_Potato posted:Nutanix is the last enterprise hypervisor standing. https://www.ibm.com/products/zvm The first enterprise hypervisor is doing fine, tyvm 52 years young!
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Mar 8, 2024 13:21
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fresh_cheese posted:https://www.ibm.com/products/zvm It wasn't fun to use before virtualization of interrupts and I/O MMU virtualization, which was half a decade later.
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Mar 8, 2024 19:41
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:To be fair, hardware-accelerated virtualization and SLAT wasn't really available on x86 until Nahelem and Orleans - and very few people had the talents to develop something without it, as it required intimate knowledge of the CPU. ESX came out in 2001, though.
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Mar 8, 2024 19:57
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in a well actually posted:ESX came out in 2001, though. Do you remember using it? Oof.
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Mar 8, 2024 20:14
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I remember installing/using ESX. Not until 3.x though. I remember being wary of ESXi, lol.
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Mar 8, 2024 20:25
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Subjunctive posted:Do you remember using it? Oof. I remember Connectix Virtual PC. Hyper-V is what resulted from that purchase. I remember VMware GSX, and early ESX, but I cannot remember the version. Mid 2000s, so probably 2 HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Mar 8, 2024 |
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Mar 8, 2024 20:30
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I remember trying to use the first release of VMware’s stuff to let me build and debug Mozilla on Windows from a Linux machine and it was just miserable.
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Mar 8, 2024 20:33
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