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The Biden admin has been consistently supportive of humanitarian aid for Gaza, and consistently supportive of Israel's military campaign "against Hamas", and consistently complaining impotently that it would be nice if Israel killed fewer civilians with US weapons. It's incoherent, but it isn't new, and for that matter the extremely pro aid components of the US government have been complaining that we should probably stop giving Israel weapons. e: used totally wrong word Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Mar 7, 2024 |
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Mar 7, 2024 20:58
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Bar Ran Dun posted:No they aren’t and were never ever going to do this in Black Sea. Hmm so Biden bad after all
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Mar 7, 2024 21:02
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Google Jeb Bush posted:The Biden campaign has been consistently supportive of humanitarian aid for Gaza, and consistently supportive of Israel's military campaign "against Hamas", and consistently complaining impotently that it would be nice if Israel killed fewer civilians with US weapons. It's incoherent, but it isn't new, and for that matter the extremely pro aid components of the US government have been complaining that we should probably stop giving Israel weapons. Pretty standard incoherence when actions have to reflect different legs of a political coalition which diverge wildly on the policy they want from him. I wonder if this is reflective of a shift in view on the upcoming election. Previously the pro-Israel and natsec wings which the viewed the destruction of Hamas as the the most important part of these events seemed to have the highest priority, but perhaps the messaging in the primaries - vote uncommitted - convinced the Bidens team to shore up that end of things. Or if it's more reflective of a change in priorities of the established national security/state dept wings viewing Israeli actions as veering too far into liability territory.
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Mar 7, 2024 21:11
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Bar Ran Dun posted:No they aren’t and were never ever going to do this in Black Sea. Biden did actually call for doing this at one point: Joe Biden posted:Biden said the US would “seek to continue to open up other avenues in Ukraine [sic], including the possibility a marine corridor to deliver large amounts of humanitarian assistance. In addition to expanding deliveries by land, we are going to insist Israel facilitate more trucks and more routes to get more and more people the help they need.”
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Mar 7, 2024 21:18
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Dopilsya posted:Pretty standard incoherence when actions have to reflect different legs of a political coalition which diverge wildly on the policy they want from him. Doing some quick digging it looks like small radar systems good at hitting small fast moving things, high end nightvision optics, and reactive armor are things the Israelis export to the US for several of the important vehicle systems. That’s probably the reason.
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Mar 7, 2024 21:48
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B B posted:Biden did actually call for doing this at one point: A “marine corridor” is not a “temporary port”, so no he did not unless one conflates very different things or is unaware that they are very different things. If you think they are the same, why don’t you explain to us what you think each one is?
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Mar 7, 2024 21:50
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selec posted:This has a built-in assumption that this is happening in addition to US aid coming in over the road, and that this is about adding to that capacity. Am I reading that right? Yes. Since October 7th, roughly twelve thousand truckloads of aid have entered Gaza by road. Not sure how much US cargo was on those trucks, but that's the only way any aid is getting into Gaza at all right now. As for #2, I'll address that below. EDIT: In addition to the port that's grabbing all the headlines, Biden has also gotten Israel to open up another border crossing, increasing the number of Israel-Gaza crossings currently usable for aid shipments from 1 to 2. DynamicSloth posted:Well they made some noise but then the U.S. sent the CIA director to Cairo to straighten them out. This food is already being transported by sea, because it's mostly coming from places that are very far away! It's just that instead of being sent directly to Gaza's coasts and distributed directly to the population of Gaza, it's being unloaded in Gaza's neighboring countries and trucked through two border crossings (only one of which is actually designed for bulk cargo shipping to begin with), an entirely unnecessary inconvenience that is happening solely because Israel has refused to permit the construction of a port in Gaza all this time. Getting a port - even a temporary one - is a massive game-changer for a place that's been dependent on constant humanitarian aid shipments even before the invasion. Main Paineframe fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Mar 7, 2024 |
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Mar 7, 2024 21:58
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https://twitter.com/mchalfant16/status/1765837992675959155 Whoa goddamn. You couldn't get a 50-0 vote in favor of kissing puppies on their widdle heads. https://twitter.com/Olivia_Beavers/status/1765800349640630298 Seems like. https://twitter.com/LisaDNews/status/1765842761670889900 lmao zoux fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Mar 7, 2024 |
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Mar 7, 2024 22:07
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/mchalfant16/status/1765837992675959155 yeah. i mean on one hand "the kids are alright" but also i sorta get why the goverment wants to do this.
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Mar 7, 2024 22:28
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/mchalfant16/status/1765837992675959155 i don't know, seems like this proves the iron grip red china has on our youth
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Mar 7, 2024 22:32
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Let's put the tweets and press headlines aside and look at what the administration actually announced. As best as I can tell, the ultimate source for all this is a press call given by the White House to let reporters know in advance what would be in the SOTU: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...e-of-the-union/ First, let's look at the announcement itself: quote:SENIOR ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Thanks very much. Just to go back to a little bit of the history of President Biden’s involvement on the humanitarian access and delivery aspect of the conflict in Gaza: You know, really since the beginning of the conflict, President Biden has been leading efforts to get lifesaving humanitarian aid into Gaza to alleviate the suffering of innocent Palestinians who have nothing to do with Hamas. First off, they talk about road traffic. The administration claims credit for the fact that any aid is entering Gaza at all right now, saying that both the Rafah and Kerem Shalom crossings were opened due to the Biden administration's pressure on Israel and Egypt. Then they announce that they've gotten Israel to open up a third crossing, and that aid will start flowing through that crossing this week. In addition, they say that they've convinced Israel to increase the capacity of one of the road routes passing through Israel from other countries to the Kerem Shalom crossing. After that, they cover the airdrops that have been happening. Next, they announce the port for the first time. It seems to be a development of a naval shipping plan Cyprus suggested a few months ago, the Amalthea Initiative. The Cyprus plan was popular among the international community for its ability to increase aid throughput, but wasn't workable as-is because Gaza lacked port facilities and a force capable of ensuring the safety of the port (not just against the IDF, but also against organized crime, militias, and anyone else who might want to steal the aid). Having US troops sitting in a floating port just off the coast solves both problems. The administration also suggests that although the initial facilities will be temporary, the administration intends for it to become a permanent port operated by Palestinians. That is huge for Gaza (and definitely not happening under Trump). After that, they stress that a ceasefire is badly needed, and blames Hamas for being unwilling to release some (not all) hostages in exchange for one. After that, there's a Q&A. The administration doesn't give useful answers to all the questions, but here's a couple that were actually informative: quote:Q Hi. In terms of the hostage negotiations, you’ve said a number of times that the ball is in Hamas’s court. Hamas has put out statements over the past couple of days, saying it still wants a commitment for the initial repositioning of Israeli forces and a commitment for a phase two complete withdrawal of Israeli forces, and that it wants to ensure that all Gazans who want to move north can go back there. The first one goes into ceasefire negotiations a bit, but then pivots to talking about the aid requirements. The administration says here that its goal is to "flood" Gaza with aid, bringing in as much humanitarian aid as possible using every available method - land, sea, and air - because Gaza just needs absolutely massive amounts of aid right now. The second one says that although there won't be US boots on the ground in Gaza, there will be US military ships offshore. Other than that, the administration isn't committing to any specifics on US military involvement, leaving the details up to the DOD.
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Mar 7, 2024 22:34
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selec posted:It’s completely embarrassing that we have to use all our battlefield logistical capabilities for aid when our supposed ally could just allow us to send aid in via the road. I wonder if Bibi enjoys humiliating Biden more than Biden seems to love making excuses for poo poo like this. This is not humiliation for Biden. This is Biden saying “we help you because it suits us but we can do what we want in and to your country if you push us too far”.
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Mar 7, 2024 22:40
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GhostofJohnMuir posted:i don't know, seems like this proves the iron grip red china has on our youth I don't think it's the youth. I know many people in their 30's and 40's that spend a good chunk of their freetime on the Tikytoky
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Mar 7, 2024 23:10
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If republicans are dumb as poo poo enough to attack TikTok then god bless their stupid little hearts.
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Mar 7, 2024 23:12
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Zotix posted:I don't think it's the youth. I know many people in their 30's and 40's that spend a good chunk of their freetime on the Tikytoky i feel like i might but i kinda prefer youtube or instagram.
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Mar 7, 2024 23:20
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Biden's doing the right thing it seems or at least within the limits of the US political reality; Joe the Humanitarian, or Humanitarian Aid Joe don't quite roll off the tongue, any ideas?
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Mar 7, 2024 23:26
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joe humanitarian sounds armenian. laudatory.
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Mar 7, 2024 23:32
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Raenir Salazar posted:Biden's doing the right thing it seems or at least within the limits of the US political reality; Joe the Humanitarian, or Humanitarian Aid Joe don't quite roll off the tongue, any ideas? We could just keep calling him Genocide Joe and loudly insist that every anti-genocidal thing he does is actually more evidence that he’s secretly super-genocidal.
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Mar 7, 2024 23:33
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selec posted:It’s completely embarrassing that we have to use all our battlefield logistical capabilities for aid when our supposed ally could just allow us to send aid in via the road. I wonder if Bibi enjoys humiliating Biden more than Biden seems to love making excuses for poo poo like this. You do realize that roads are garbage for getting aid through, right? Rivers and oceans are the gold standard for cargo transportation for a reason. This is basically what that logistical capabilities were made for, and it's good that it's happened. The "this is a horrible humiliation and we should be ashamed that we are building a port in mere weeks to get Gaza the aid it needs!" takes are somehow the wrongest opinions I've seen in a while.
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Mar 7, 2024 23:35
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The Artificial Kid posted:We could just keep calling him Genocide Joe and loudly insist that every anti-genocidal thing he does is actually more evidence that he’s secretly super-genocidal. The 100+ secret shipments of bombs to Israel that have been used by Israel to carry out the genocide seem like strong evidence that Genocide Joe supports the genocide to which he is funneling weapons.
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Mar 7, 2024 23:38
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Kchama posted:You do realize that roads are garbage for getting aid through, right? Rivers and oceans are the gold standard for cargo transportation for a reason. This is basically what that logistical capabilities were made for, and it's good that it's happened. The "this is a horrible humiliation and we should be ashamed that we are building a port in mere weeks to get Gaza the aid it needs!" takes are somehow the wrongest opinions I've seen in a while. The dumbest part is that there’s nothing embarrassing about being able to place a port anywhere in the world at short notice with only the veneer of local consent. That is raw power.
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Mar 7, 2024 23:38
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Raenir Salazar posted:Biden's doing the right thing it seems or at least within the limits of the US political reality; Joe the Humanitarian, or Humanitarian Aid Joe don't quite roll off the tongue, any ideas? I'm sure all the Palestinians who die from American bombs will be saying to themselves, "at least I died with a full stomach, thanks Joe"
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Mar 7, 2024 23:40
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People in this thread continue to insist that Biden is very anti-genocidal while news stories keep coming out about various politicians trying to apply pressure to get Biden to stop aiding the genocide
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Mar 7, 2024 23:40
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rscott posted:I'm sure all the Palestinians who die from American bombs will be saying to themselves, "at least I died with a full stomach, thanks Joe"
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Mar 7, 2024 23:43
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Raenir Salazar posted:Biden's doing the right thing it seems or at least within the limits of the US political reality; Joe the Humanitarian, or Humanitarian Aid Joe don't quite roll off the tongue, any ideas? How'd this nickname suggestion work out? Raenir Salazar posted:Ceasefire Joe has a pretty good ring to it.
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Mar 7, 2024 23:44
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The Artificial Kid posted:The dumbest part is that there’s nothing embarrassing about being able to place a port anywhere in the world at short notice with only the veneer of local consent. That is raw power. Why doesn’t Biden call for a permanent ceasefire?
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Mar 7, 2024 23:45
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the US choosing to manifest a port out of thin air is like how Burger King was deployed in the middle east. it sounds a little silly until you think about what it says about the US's military might that they can just do that
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Mar 7, 2024 23:46
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Also about the Katie Porter stuff, as someone who lives in California, the sense I've gotten is that basically nobody likes her. Like, even before her trying to claim that the election was rigged. Like there's a reason why she was completely crushed. The big sense I got is that she came off as a self-righteous hypocrite and that really turned people off, even if she wasn't much different from Schiff. Turns out that doing everything you accuse your opponent of doing does not endear you to voters.theCalamity posted:Why doesn’t Biden call for a permanent ceasefire? He's apparently been trying for a ceasefire, but uhh Israel kind of wants the permanent ceasefire caused by there being no Gazans left alive, so it is a bit difficult.
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Mar 7, 2024 23:46
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The Artificial Kid posted:So is the port a bad thing? Is it really that hard to look at the last post on the previous page? rscott posted:It's a good development in as much as it will hopefully prevent people from dying from starvation but it does literally nothing to stop the less hungry people dying from indiscriminate strikes. It does nothing to end the genocidal campaign the Biden administration has been materially supporting and shielding from consequences internationally. That's why it's bizarre!
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Mar 7, 2024 23:47
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rscott posted:I'm sure all the Palestinians who die from American bombs will be saying to themselves, "at least I died with a full stomach, thanks Joe" This seems very reductive, would you prefer there's no aid coming through? Politics involves compromise; and this is clearly in an multistage multipart effort to arrange for a long lasting ceasation of hostilities and continued and prompt administration of aid. You're not really thinking big picture or long term here. B B posted:The 100+ secret shipments of bombs to Israel that have been used by Israel to carry out the genocide seem like strong evidence that Genocide Joe supports the genocide to which he is funneling weapons. Or maybe he supports Israel's ostensible right to self-defence against terrorist attacks but the disproportionate response puts the US in a difficult situation of trying to mitigate the harm being done? There's a hypothetical universe where Israel only uses those weapons in a proportional way against military targets and engages in a responsible police action to target only hamas politicians and military. B B posted:How'd this nickname suggestion work out? Idk, this seems like a step in the right direction? I'm not sure your point.
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Mar 7, 2024 23:47
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Also, much like the ceasefire that was totally coming this past Monday according to pudding-brained ice cream-handed Genocide Joe, we'll see how this idea works out Ceasefire Joe certainly didn't work out
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Mar 7, 2024 23:50
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Raenir Salazar posted:Or maybe he supports Israel's ostensible right to self-defence against terrorist attacks but the disproportionate response puts the US in a difficult situation of trying to mitigate the harm being done? There's a hypothetical universe where Israel only uses those weapons in a proportional way against military targets and engages in a responsible police action to target only hamas politicians and military. The weapons that Biden has provided to Israel have been used in massacres of Gazan civilians: Al Jazeera posted:The WSJ report said a surge of US arms to Israel since the start of the war has included 15,000 bombs and 57,000 155mm artillery shells that have primarily been carried on C-17 military cargo planes.
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Mar 7, 2024 23:51
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Raenir Salazar posted:Or maybe he supports Israel's ostensible right to self-defence against terrorist attacks but the disproportionate response puts the US in a difficult situation of trying to mitigate the harm being done? There's a hypothetical universe where Israel only uses those weapons in a proportional way against military targets and engages in a responsible police action to target only hamas politicians and military. Judge there's a hypothetical universe where that gun I gave my crazy friend screaming about revenge was used in self defense instead of a mass shooting
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Mar 7, 2024 23:52
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Raenir Salazar posted:This seems very reductive, would you prefer there's no aid coming through? Politics involves compromise; and this is clearly in an multistage multipart effort to arrange for a long lasting ceasation of hostilities and continued and prompt administration of aid. You're not really thinking big picture or long term here. IDK dude, it seems pretty reductive to boil the situation down to where the only choices are that Palestinians die hungry or full. Perhaps there's another way forward? One where the people of Gaza get aid without having their entire society ground into rubble?
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Mar 7, 2024 23:55
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koolkal posted:Also, much like the ceasefire that was totally coming this past Monday according to pudding-brained ice cream-handed Genocide Joe, we'll see how this idea works out Did anyone try using it? Maybe there could be more positive reinforcement? Olga Gurlukovich posted:Judge there's a hypothetical universe where that gun I gave my crazy friend screaming about revenge was used in self defense instead of a mass shooting Countries obviously aren't individuals within the social contract but are amoral self-interested actors within a anarchic framework of realpolitik? This is obviously apples and oranges. B B posted:The weapons that Biden has provided to Israel have been used in massacres of Gazan civilians: Its unfortunate, deeply so, but I'm not sure what this has to do with what I said or my point? rscott posted:IDK dude, it seems pretty reductive to boil the situation down to where the only choices are that Palestinians die hungry or full. Perhaps there's another way forward? But that's literally the point you made? Perhaps you should've made your argument clearer?
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Mar 7, 2024 23:56
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rscott posted:IDK dude, it seems pretty reductive to boil the situation down to where the only choices are that Palestinians die hungry or full. Perhaps there's another way forward? No, we tried a third way before and I don't think people were happy with it.
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Mar 7, 2024 23:57
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lobster shirt posted:joe humanitarian sounds armenian. laudatory. Another genocide the US won’t recognize. Interesting.
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Mar 7, 2024 23:58
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honestly this level of credulity in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence is kind of impressive
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Mar 7, 2024 23:58
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hadji murad posted:Another genocide the US won’t recognize. Interesting. You're nearly three years out of date. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_recognition_of_the_Armenian_genocide
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Mar 8, 2024 00:00
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hadji murad posted:Another genocide the US won’t recognize. Interesting. The U.S. formally recognized the Armenian genocide in April 2021 (and unofficially by proclamation in congress in 2019). Turkey was very mad about it.
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Mar 8, 2024 00:00
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