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zoux posted:All any of us ever wanted was a show set immediately after DS9 with a new hero ship and cool crew doing Star Trek poo poo but for some reason that time period was off limits. prodigy is giving us three crewed hero ships and events happening both shortly after nemesis (2383ish), and about 30-40 years after picard (2430s)
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Mar 8, 2024 17:38
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Squizzle posted:prodigy is giving us three crewed hero ships and events happening both shortly after nemesis (2383ish), and about 30-40 years after picard (2430s) Prodigy is/was one of the better ideas Paramount has ever had on how to attract more new fans to Star Trek. So obviously it had to be immediately taken behind the shed and shot. Hopefully Netflix latched on to it and makes it go full seven season run if for nothing else, as a gently caress you to Paramount. They found a backdoor to get an access to Voyager IPR, because Paramount is terrible with their business decisions.
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Mar 8, 2024 17:49
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Der Kyhe posted:Prodigy is/was one of the better ideas Paramount has ever had on how to attract more new fans to Star Trek. So obviously it had to be immediately taken behind the shed and shot. Considering it broke into the Top 10 worldwide the first few days it landed on Netflix, more people probably watched Prodigy that first few days than ever saw it the whole time it was on Paramount+, and it was already apparently one of the more-watched Trek shows on P+ to Paramount's livid chagrin.
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Mar 8, 2024 18:00
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skasion posted:Ent is cargo cult TOS. If we just put a white guy captain, a southerner and a Vulcan as the main trio, they will watch. Just don’t bother with any of the charm, chemistry, imagination, ambition or visual appeal 33 is so loving good
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Mar 8, 2024 18:15
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I know the back half of BSG was bad and the ending was just dogshit, but I still have a soft spot for the mutiny arc. It was like one last hurrah before the show gets you to look away for a second so it can quickly disappear off camera.
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Mar 8, 2024 18:35
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zoux posted:33 is so loving good One of the best hours of TV in any genre, let alone sci-fi. The show dips a little coming off the miniseries, but then 33 grabs you by the throat and carries you through looking for the same high. The only complaint is, as the first episode of the series, it's all downhill. The show only infrequently reaches the same heights of tension: Gaeta networking the computers, New Caprica, and the insurrection are the only ones that come to mind. Maybe Splashdown's episode. It's that loving good.
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Mar 8, 2024 18:39
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I'm gonna disagree and say BSG is good the whole way through to Starbuck slamming the random coordinates at the climax. (But the denouement on Earth is pretty bleh.) However, the necessity of the Cult of Adam or whatever it is to make the plot actually work, and how it forced RDM to literally say he didn't have an answer for the Starbuck/prophecy stuff, is pretty the Emperor has no clothes kinda lol. I don't mind there being a spiritual element but please at least connect the puzzle pieces in your planning instead of just going "eh"
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Mar 8, 2024 18:51
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Admiralty Flag posted:One of the best hours of TV in any genre, let alone sci-fi. The show dips a little coming off the miniseries, but then 33 grabs you by the throat and carries you through looking for the same high. The only complaint is, as the first episode of the series, it's all downhill. The show only infrequently reaches the same heights of tension: Gaeta networking the computers, New Caprica, and the insurrection are the only ones that come to mind. Maybe Splashdown's episode. Season 2 was just a string of straight loving bangers ruined only by the occasional turd like Black Market and Sacrifice. But once they leave New Caprica, that's it, the show's loving done for in overall quality. There's a scattering of great scenes here and there and some good one or two-off episodes like the insurrection, but otherwise 
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Mar 8, 2024 19:01
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Yeah, I think they had no idea what to do with the show after the timeskip, but there was some great stuff before that.
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Mar 8, 2024 19:19
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IShallRiseAgain posted:Yeah, I think they had no idea what to do with the show after the timeskip, but there was some great stuff before that. They wrote themselves into a corner regarding the final five Cylons who hadn't been revealed yet, thrusting the show into a situation where they either needed to suddenly reveal them all at once or come up with a cleaver explanation for why a Cylon government of "Twelve Models" only has seven of them showing up to work every day. They picked Option 2 and loving bellyflopped it so hard it brought the rest of the show down with it.
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Mar 8, 2024 19:28
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Taear posted:Yea I want to know what happens after the dominion war, for example. zoux posted:All any of us ever wanted was a show set immediately after DS9 with a new hero ship and cool crew doing Star Trek poo poo but for some reason that time period was off limits. Fighting Trousers posted:That would require acknowledging that the Dominion War (and by extension, all of DS9) had happened, and the Star Trek powers that be took whiny nerds howling about how much they hated DS9 very much to heart. When are you folks gonna be honest with yourselves and admit straight-up that you just want DS9-2? And if your first response is "but that's not what I'm saying" then my immediate question is: really? Why not?
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Mar 8, 2024 19:33
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nine-gear crow posted:They wrote themselves into a corner regarding the final five Cylons who hadn't been revealed yet, thrusting the show into a situation where they either needed to suddenly reveal them all at once or come up with a cleaver explanation for why a Cylon government of "Twelve Models" only has seven of them showing up to work every day. They picked Option 2 and loving bellyflopped it so hard it brought the rest of the show down with it. On the other hand that got us the banger episode of "No Exit" as the way to literally write themselves out of that corner, so I can't fault it too much.
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Mar 8, 2024 19:34
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:When are you folks gonna be honest with yourselves and admit straight-up that you just want DS9-2? Oh yes I very much want DS9-2. And 3.
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Mar 8, 2024 20:03
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:And if your first response is "but that's not what I'm saying" then my immediate question is: really? Why not? Because I want to know who I have to talk to to get my Large Magellanic Cloud long term exploration mission series I thought up, that'd be why!
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Mar 8, 2024 20:04
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im not sure's there's not much entertainment to be mined from a post-ds9 show. you can't do an epic plotline that's less than the dominion war; it'll just look tawdry in comparison. you can't really do a super dominion war; the dominion war was already hyped to 11 with the whole alpha quadrant teaming up and it still being last gasp bullshit that saves the day. post dominion war politics is just going to be former allies falling apart into bickering and conflict, which isn't great star trek really. you could do an episodic star trek where ships return to exploration etc, but i dont think thats what the ds9 fans are looking for
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Mar 8, 2024 20:15
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BSG is still outstanding and if you didn't ugly cry once at the ending, I don't understand what you want out of art.
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Mar 8, 2024 20:56
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Sash! posted:Because I want to know who I have to talk to to get my Large Magellanic Cloud long term exploration mission series I thought up, that'd be why! ...okay but what about that premise specifically needs to be immediately post-DS9? TheDeadlyShoe posted:im not sure's there's not much entertainment to be mined from a post-ds9 show. Right so my next question for those folks is "okay, do you actually want a Star Trek like that, or are you just shoehorning your desires into a vaguely Trekish shape because it's an established setting more likely to get another show made for it?"
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Mar 8, 2024 21:13
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:im not sure's there's not much entertainment to be mined from a post-ds9 show. This is a good point, the need to always ramp up the stakes is a big part of why every big franchise eventually becomes awful (Hi Marvel). You can either continue on, ramping up the stakes to farcical levels, continue on without increasing the stakes, or do prequel bullshit where you still have to decide between increasing the stakes or not, which are still two bad options but at least you can make nudge nudge, wink wink references to later events. But there is another, secret option. Leave Star Trek alone, so it can be fondly remembered as a great series, and go on to write new, different stories in unrelated new settings. Obviously studio executives would rather die penniless in the gutter before trying something so drastic, so here we are.
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Mar 8, 2024 21:18
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It is a very good indication of what to expect that the Lower Decks episode where they do visit post-DS9 DS9, it needs to heavily sell the episode with "look we got green light to do an episode at DS9". The writers really are struggling to come up with anything interesting. Most of the actual things happening are walk-ins by actors whose characters still resides at the station, and the story is really simple "Quark gets kidnapped because of business deal gone bad". Its not bad, aggressively mediocre more likely, but it is as close to Simpson celebrity cameo episode you can get with LDS.
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Mar 8, 2024 21:19
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It's true that there's no stories left to tell in that setting, it's not like there's a shortcut to a largely unexplored quadrant of the galaxy right there or anything.
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Mar 8, 2024 21:25
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LividLiquid posted:BSG is still outstanding and if you didn't ugly cry once at the ending, I don't understand what you want out of art. Looking back I'm not sure I ever really connected with most (or any?) of the characters. Like, remember when they were getting ready to try and infect the Cylons with the resurrection virus, and Apollo tries telling his dad "we shouldn't do this" and eventually works himself up to basically saying "well I'm just gonna go see what the President has to say about this"? Remember the look on his face when Adama basically tells him it was her idea to begin with? I imagine the scene is supposed to be tragic as hell. Lee is crushed that both of the leaders he looks up to, who he expects to be checking and balancing each other (god Lee Adama's version of heaven really would be as a starring character on an Aaron Sorkin show) are all-in on what he sees as a deeply immoral plan. The Me? I thought it was funny as hell. I never liked Lee and I thought it was hilarious when, after threatening to go tell mommy, dad just says "cool have fun with that, it's her idea after all" and Lee's face drat near slides off his head. So, yeah, I guess you probably don't understand what I want out of art.
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Mar 8, 2024 21:31
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LividLiquid posted:BSG is still outstanding and if you didn't ugly cry once at the ending, I don't understand what you want out of art. Well, I wanted to see the cylons put an end to the humans once and for all (galactic pest control), but unfortunately I guess that badass ending wasn't really in the cards.
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Mar 8, 2024 21:37
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Okay?
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Mar 8, 2024 21:37
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zoux posted:It's true that there's no stories left to tell in that setting, it's not like there's a shortcut to a largely unexplored quadrant of the galaxy right there or anything. Direct sequel at DS9 after the TNG/DS9 era and sequel about Gamma quadrant are two different things. The first one is a dead end, if Dominion doesn't go to war with Federation again, DS9 is just a gas station between two places of interest. Maybe a sitcom about a gas station in the middle of nowhere? 
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Mar 8, 2024 21:38
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Looking back I'm not sure I ever really connected with most (or any?) of the characters. Lee Adama spends the entire series being the absolute shittiest mediocre failson of a person losing everything he cared about to more qualified people, and then gets his ultimate revenge on the world by convincing the Colonial race to extinct itself.
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Mar 8, 2024 21:38
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zoux posted:It's true that there's no stories left to tell in that setting, it's not like there's a shortcut to a largely unexplored quadrant of the galaxy right there or anything. There's unexplored space all over the galaxy. The wormhole's not the only way to get to it. The value of the wormhole is in offering a shortcut to unexplored space while the show remains within the context of being next to Bajor, and between Bajor and the Cardassians. DS9 spent seven years sitting next to Bajor and the Cardassians. The story of rebuilding Bajor is interesting in the context of Cardassia still lurking nearby and in the history and conflict those two peoples had (past and ongoing). There's been the argument of "well what about rebuilding Cardassia" but their occupiers have been kicked back to the Gamma Quadrant so where is the conflict going to come from external to Cardassia? And if we're not focused on rebuilding Cardassia then why tether the show to a space station again?
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Mar 8, 2024 21:39
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nine-gear crow posted:Lee Adama spends the entire series being the absolute shittiest mediocre failson of a person losing everything he cared about to more qualified people, and then gets his ultimate revenge by convincing the Colonial race to extinct itself. I wouldn't go nearly that far. My impression was that he seemed to have had a decent career going pre-apocalypse and - even assuming Adama had strings to pull prior to his fall from grace - I don't think it was due to favors from his old man.
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Mar 8, 2024 21:42
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They should have gone through with their plan to infect and kill off the Cylons. They tried running, they tried hiding, they tried fighting back, none of which helped. The Cylons demonstrated they were determined to exterminate the human race, and they had and were willing to spend any amount of resources and time to accomplish this goal. Cylon society is not like human society. There are zero innocent children, and there are zero conscientious objectors. Every single Cylon participated in genocide already, and every single member except one was still actively involved in finishing off the job. If you really want to get pedantic about it, not taking action makes you complicit in genocide anyways since you know drat well they intend to genocide some more and you didn't do the only thing available to you that would be sure to stop them, so at worst it would be a wash, you're trading one genocide for another. The only thing that stopped that from being true was some hokey rear end writing towards the end, based on all the information they had available to them at the time they should have done it.
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Mar 8, 2024 21:49
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I mean, if they cylons want to exterminate the human race, who are we to tell them that they shouldn't? I'm all for the Colonials being eliminated; almost all of them sucked save for Gaius Baltar.
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Mar 8, 2024 21:50
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:I mean, if they cylons want to exterminate the human race, who are we to tell them that they shouldn't? I'm all for the Colonials being eliminated; almost all of them sucked save for Gaius Baltar. 
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Mar 8, 2024 21:52
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Right so my next question for those folks is "okay, do you actually want a Star Trek like that, or are you just shoehorning your desires into a vaguely Trekish shape because it's an established setting more likely to get another show made for it?" I mean, it worked for Andor.....
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Mar 8, 2024 21:58
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the DS9 story tied up neatly enough that I wouldn't really want a direct DS9 sequel, but the show did set up enough non-Gamma Quadrant, non-Bajor hooks that I think could provide a couple seasons of a post-DS9 show -- Klingons and Romulans getting involved in rebuilding Cardassia, the Breen suddenly becoming a major player in quadrant politics, maybe a resurgent Maquis looking for revenge
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Mar 8, 2024 22:15
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Pretty much every criticism of BSG is one of two things: 1.) Legit gripes caused by the writer's strike, and 2.) Cinema Sins Ding-level "well if everybody in this show about human responses to big problems acted 100% rationally, they could've solved all their problems!" And not all of these were, so at least that's somethin'.
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Mar 8, 2024 22:46
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The Final Five sucked. Sorry, should've been different people.
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Mar 8, 2024 22:48
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LividLiquid posted:Pretty much every criticism of BSG is one of two things: I remember when I originally watched it I got more and more frustrated that no one shot Baltar. If they killed Baltar everything would have worked itself out.
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Mar 8, 2024 22:52
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counterfeitsaint posted:I remember when I originally watched it I got more and more frustrated that no one shot Baltar. If they killed Baltar everything would have worked itself out.
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Mar 8, 2024 22:54
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Am I weird that Tigh Me Up Tigh Me Down became one of my favorite episodes of BSG? It was basically the only “comedy” episode they ever did but it was still shot, paced, and acted like the most serious episodes in the rest of the series. The scene in the sick bay where everyone learns what everyone else knew and shooting death stares in every direction was hilarious and I have to believe it was on purpose.
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Mar 8, 2024 22:56
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Der Kyhe posted:It is a very good indication of what to expect that the Lower Decks episode where they do visit post-DS9 DS9, it needs to heavily sell the episode with "look we got green light to do an episode at DS9". The writers really are struggling to come up with anything interesting. The episode on DS9 traded heavily on nostalgia. The episode with Leeta and Rom was quite interesting.
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Mar 8, 2024 23:44
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A post Dominion show set on Cardassia could actually be interesting if the focus was on how a society de-Nazifies itself. It might even be relevant for some reason.
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Mar 9, 2024 01:04
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LividLiquid posted:Pretty much every criticism of BSG is one of two things: 2 is especially stupid because the survivors are explicitly shown to be a ragtag group of gently caress ups. "Oooh why didn't they do X Y Z" because the president is a high school teacher, the XO is a drunk, and all the fighter pilots are on amphetamines
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Mar 9, 2024 01:07
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