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On the topic of gameplay mods, as much as I've wanted to like Nobody Told Me About id, I find its gameplay changes to be a bit too drastic to mesh with a lot of maps, and I don't mean the intensely hard ones either, just the ones that are clearly built around vanilla mechanics and monsters, which is, y'know, most of them. Coincidentally, I remembered this one other mod I had tried a while back called Project Babel and it turns out that's much closer to the sort of "Doom+" experience that I was looking for with NTMAi, but since its mechanics and monsters are more closely based on vanilla and expanded upon, rather than being redefined from the ground up for many of them, it doesn't clash but instead slots in nicely as a spicier but nevertheless still coherent experience, even while doing many of the same ideas as NTMAi (e.g. berserk punch leeches health off of enemies, zombiemen and other enemies can fire in The only *issue* really being the lack of documentation as to what all its exact changes are, so for instance I'm still not entirely sure how the archvile's new attacks work since, y'know, don't exactly want to leave the fucker alive long enough to do many of them.
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Mar 7, 2024 20:39
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:Well as it turns out, I think I am NOT a bad enough dude to complete this Sunlust run; ran into a sort of wall on MAP25 and now I'm playing through Unholy Realms! Proxyon is a beast, but also one of the more fun ones to replay IMO once you've got the strats down. If you're stuck on a specific part Coincident has a blind playthrough from last year. I don't love the chat/save gimmick but it's still a decent watch: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLMYztbDcjeFzxmdteaTExv_Q1lQ91F1z4
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Mar 7, 2024 22:51
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Takes No Damage posted:Proxyon is a beast, but also one of the more fun ones to replay IMO once you've got the strats down. If you're stuck on a specific part Coincident has a blind playthrough from last year. I don't love the chat/save gimmick but it's still a decent watch: Yeah Proxyon is hell of fun and the rocket launcher fight is, IMO, an incredibly important thing to learn for dealing with large groups of enemies. Do try and stick with Sunlust, even if you have to save after every fight it’s still challenging and worthwhile to see the whole way through.
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Mar 7, 2024 23:00
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Takes No Damage posted:Proxyon is a beast, but also one of the more fun ones to replay IMO once you've got the strats down. If you're stuck on a specific part Coincident has a blind playthrough from last year. I don't love the chat/save gimmick but it's still a decent watch: Arivia posted:Yeah Proxyon is hell of fun and the rocket launcher fight is, IMO, an incredibly important thing to learn for dealing with large groups of enemies. Alright I jumped back in and finally beat Proxyon today. It "only" took like a hundred deaths and three save points (one after the Arch Vile/BH/HK clusterfuck, one after the larger imp & mancubus pinch, and one after the Cacodemon clusterfuck). I definitely agree that there's something very satisfying about this map's fixation on rocket fights--churning through clouds of cacos and imps like a lawnmower.
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Mar 8, 2024 21:44
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:Alright I jumped back in and finally beat Proxyon today. It "only" took like a hundred deaths and three save points (one after the Arch Vile/BH/HK clusterfuck, one after the larger imp & mancubus pinch, and one after the Cacodemon clusterfuck). I definitely agree that there's something very satisfying about this map's fixation on rocket fights--churning through clouds of cacos and imps like a lawnmower. So I'm gonna give you the strat for the arch-vile/hell nobles fight because you're gonna see a fight like that again in Sunlust, but it's actually FAR less of a clusterfuck than it seems. Normally when we think about "monster shaping" in Doom terms, we're thinking about big slaughter sections and bringing things into the center of an area so you can circle strafe around them. That fight demands a different kind of monster shaping. Stand in the back corner where you get the rockets, and you'll see there's a LITTLE extra space behind and to the right. That's where you want to be. Then you start firing at the diagonally OPPOSITE corner of the hell nobles. Remember how Doom monsters will either fire or walk towards you. So what you're doing is you fire at the OPPOSITE corner while the monsters come towards you, with the monsters also bunching up on that right hand side towards you. Ultimately, you're shooting into what should be the THIN side of the group and when there's clear space, you run past the group to the far side and can whittle them down with the extra space you have over there. On higher difficulties the arch-viles are there to make the dodge attempt harder, but if you notice the arch-viles can't freely MOVE, they can snipe you when you get close but that's it. So you wedge yourself in the opposite corner where the arch-viles can't reach you and keep taking care of the hell nobles. That fight is about controlling space, basically; the "angle the wedge" to create space thing was a very important thing for me to learn in playing Doom. Arivia fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Mar 8, 2024 |
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Mar 8, 2024 23:08
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Yeah I've been having to practice that a bit, and have finally cleared another one of the areas you're probably referring to in Map 26 "Kinetics". I think this is the first WAD I've played where I really had to do this.
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Mar 9, 2024 18:56
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:Yeah I've been having to practice that a bit, and have finally cleared another one of the areas you're probably referring to in Map 26 "Kinetics". I think this is the first WAD I've played where I really had to do this. Yeah, this is why when the comparison between Sunlust and Sunder came up a little while ago people were emphasizing how Sunlust is more combat puzzle than pure slaughter. Sunder has another trick up its sleeve on top of that (it adds dangerous platforming in the middle of the combat loop) but the general idea holds.
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Mar 9, 2024 19:15
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The Kins posted:Surprise! Pirate Doom 2 is coming. 
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Mar 9, 2024 20:03
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Having been playing through the first Pirate Doom recently, here I was thinking that the lighting effect seemed completely different from anything in that. Looked at the Doomworld thread and lo and behold, it's for MBF-compatible ports, where the first was specifically for GZDoom.
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Mar 9, 2024 21:19
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Pirate Doom is probably my favorite TC, I am 1000% on board (  ) for a sequel. I think my favorite bit is the circus freak show, featuring the grotesque two-eyed cacodemon 
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Mar 10, 2024 04:34
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Brolander posted:imp zone community project stuff 16 I got pretty confused at a few points. Some interesting stuff going on though, keep making da maps 17 is indeed a fun romp once you get plazzed up 18 crates and barrels is maybe my fav so far if only for the music, I really hope the map is timed so you reach the big room right when that legendary Knopfriff kicks in. Cause that's what happened and it was sick. The tune gets u hype as hell. Bigadump bum bum boom boom BAP! Killed most things before I even found SSG and RL. Punches above its weight as a crate map funwise 19 nicely hairy mini slaughter 20 starting off, I am wondering where is all da guns and ammo. I'm just running around like a fool dodging rev rockets. Ssg secret huge help. Kind of an awful time sorry 21 I did not care for the invisible wall part. 22 pretty excellent overall, Plutopening made me chukle. A couple fights could be difficult if not approached strategically. Satisfying to 100%, blue room fight was fun. Cool moment when the stone wall lowers to let revs out 23 big fan of the early shotgun part, there's an art to dispatching lowbies efficiently with the spread and I don't always get to practice it. Hitting the angles in the computer stacks etc. Insane amount of ammo, so that you can just tear poo poo up and not every worry about it. Nice once in a while! I had to learn to ignore the urge to leave shotgun shell boxes when I had 48 or whatever I like the foreshadowing of the high up shelf items. Supercharge you can lower needs a button up top so you don't get stuck What is the point of the door next to blue door??? Lots of secrets. I love secrets...some unofficial or didn't trigger? all these mixed crowds just kill themselves, churn em up and leave Guess I gotta go back and do the secret levels. But overall a fun time
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Mar 10, 2024 20:38
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Brolander posted:Guess I gotta go back and do the secret levels. But overall a fun time MAP31 put a smile on my face. Similar concept to the Shadow Moses one (MAP08 I think) but the author picked a better source and adapted it better. Reminded me of the IWAD city maps I love. MAP32 ooof. idk how you'd actually complete it without god mode.
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Mar 11, 2024 01:01
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Captain Walker posted:MAP31 put a smile on my face. Similar concept to the Shadow Moses one (MAP08 I think) but the author picked a better source and adapted it better. Reminded me of the IWAD city maps I love. MAP31 is cool as hell. 32 is funny and I got through it with copious quicksaving
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Mar 11, 2024 02:02
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You have to start by snagging one of the invulns and clearing a path to the open half of the circle. It's much harder to UVmax but very survivable, it's a lot scarier than it looks
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Mar 11, 2024 02:18
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I don't know why, but I have an uncanny knack of finding map bugs or HOMs within seconds of starting a WAD. Especially where they don't matter.
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Mar 11, 2024 04:11
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Sunder update, managed to grind my way through to map 15. Some pride in that, but gently caress me, Hive Mother was absolutely excruciating in its first segment where you have to chop through tons of Arch-Viles, Revenants, and Hell Nobles in an extremely tight area with nothing but a super shotgun. It was so horrendous it made me resent the actual weapon for simply not having the power the carve through what they were throwing at me reliably. It really felt like I was just getting lucky with the damage rolls and monster movement to force my way through by the end, all left a very bad taste in my mouth for just being hard for the sake of hard. The worst of it was the movement on the second Arch-Vile, he's basically protected by a phalanx of Revenants and you really need him to detach himself from the group so you can focus him down. If not he'll just revive the revenants you are killing, and you can't damage him properly because he can use them as a meat shield, so you'll eventually go down either because you run out of shells or just get killed under a hail of missiles. The only thing I could do was retreat and pray that the Arch-Vile would get in front of the revenants until I could kill him, then clean up the rest. Of course there's tons of other revenants and Archies after that, so you might just die a bit further up. The map does get better though, I'll give it that, with the later fights being more open and giving you your full arsenal, it almost feels like it lays off on you a bit, it even has teleports in the deadly lava if you can believe such a thing! ...of course the map is also pockmarked with hexagonal holes in extremely frustrating locations since they are easy to fall into while carefully trying to rocket revenants, and if you fall in you can't get out so the only option is suicide. I suppose it wouldn't be Sunder without going the extra length to say 'gently caress you!'. The amount of Arch-Viles by this point in the game is loving insane, more fights have them than don't, but I was impressed by the last couple of fights for getting a better balance of fun and exciting instead of horrifying and soul crushing, even with them throwing swarms of enemies at you. One was a fight where there's tons of Archies mixed in with Revenants, but the crowd spawn in an area with tons of pillars and an invul, it worked surprisingly well with the furiously BFGing everything possible while the invulnerability was active and cleaning up the rest by breaking line of sight with the pillars and getting the missiles to hit them. As difficult as Sunder is, sometimes it has fights like that where I give them a thumbs up. The final fight was also very good, just pure balls to the wall madness as you BFG like 25 Cyberdemons and another swarm of Barons and Arch-Viles, making use of two invuls to carve out a path and herd the Cybers into the centre, and finish them off while trying to save one of the invuls for the second fight after pushing the final button that spawns in more Arch-Viles (what else?) and more Mancubus and Barons. Interesting level all around, Sunder gets progressively prettier as it goes, and maps 13 and 14 are the most impressive of the original release. The hexagonal gimmick was vigorously adhered to, but meant the level runs rather poorly, and its quite glitchy, I just fell through the floor at one point. Speaking of level 13 (Obsidian Nightmare), that one was also quite memorable. It has probably the most extensive use of Pain Elementals I've ever seen, and the start is a pretty tight puzzle with you trying to get just the right amount of infighting to clear a path for you since you don't have the arms to do it yourself. Its reliant less on pure number of monsters compared to using the most dangerous ones in tight situations which is a departure compared to the other maps, the amount of Arch-Viles appearing has gotten quite ridiculous, 73, I think that's like 3 times more than in all of Doom 2, entirely within just a single level. I know I'm at the point when the original 2010 version of Sunder ended, and all of the maps from here on out are new additions, relatively speaking, when the project was revisited later. The fact that Decino says he can't single segment any of the new maps (and was able to do so for the 2010 version) has me feeling worried, just looking at the monster count for Babylon's Chimera, the Arch-Vile count is at 150, Jesus loving Christ, maybe this is where I finally get filtered? I will say it sure is a pretty looking map at least, its nice to see that Insane_Gazebo's visual skills get progressively better as the WAD goes on. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 13:40 on Mar 11, 2024 |
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Mar 11, 2024 04:14
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secret stuff 31 sure was a lot of little closets! has a lot of classic things though, like the supply room with keyed bars 32 is not difficult at all once you get free from the initial ring. i guess if you let the archviles get out of control instead of killing them immediately it could be bad. i did catch one cyber rocket that blew me off the edge
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Mar 11, 2024 04:16
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khwarezm posted:I know I'm at the point when the original 2010 version of Sunder ended, and all of the maps from here on out are new additions, relatively speaking, when the project was revisited later. The fact that Decino says he can't single segment any of the new maps (and was able to do so for the 2010 version) has me feeling worried, just looking at the monster count for Babylon's Chimera, the Arch-Vile count is at 150, Jesus loving Christ, maybe this is where I finally get filtered? If anything, the new maps look easier or at least better designed than the older ones. I say this only by watching decino stream them but that's the vibe I get. The latest release especially has a really impressive section where you have 6 buttons, 3 spawn waves of enemies and 3 raise platforms in different configurations, allowing you to mix and match what fight you do with what room layout. If you've made it through the OG stuff you MIGHT AS WELL keep going (I just want you to keep posting trip reports, it's interesting to hear how playing through the maps feels for a 'normal' person vs a YouTube Doom SavantTM.
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Mar 11, 2024 04:29
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khwarezm posted:Sunder update, managed to grind my way through to map 15. Some pride in that, but gently caress me, Hive Mother was absolutely excruciating in its first segment where you have chop through tons of Arch-Viles, Revenants, and Hell Nobles in an extremely tight area with nothing but a super shotgun. It was so horrendous it made me resent the actual weapon for simply not having the power the carve through what they were throwing at me reliably. It really felt like I was just getting lucky with the damage rolls and monster movement to force my way through by the end, all left a very bad taste in my mouth for just being hard for the sake of hard. The worst of it was the movement on the second Arch-Vile, he's basically protected by a phalanx of Revenants and you really need him to detach himself from the group so you can focus him down. If not he'll just revive the revenants you are killing, and you can't damage him properly because he can use them as a meat shield, so you'll eventually go down either because you run out of shells or just get killed under a hail of missiles. The only thing I could do was retreat and pray that the Arch-Vile would get in front of the revenants until I could kill him, then clean up the rest. Of course there's tons of other revenants and Archies after that, so you might just die a bit further up. Ah, Hive Mother* *May not include any Hive Mothers.
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Mar 11, 2024 11:24
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khwarezm posted:Sunder update, managed to grind my way through to map 15. (Snip)
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Mar 11, 2024 12:22
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Brolander posted:secret stuff MAP31 is a pretty faithful recreation of Kamurocho from the original Yakuza/Like a Dragon. All those little closets are businesses and buildings you'd normally visit; the standard exit is in Serena while the secret exit is underground, in Purgatory, a suitably hell-themed name for a casino/colosseum area. I was a little disappointed there wasn't a batle on the roof of Millennium Tower =\
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Mar 11, 2024 20:10
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Sunlust is behind me now. The last several levels, I stopped running with the "one save per map" rule, and ended up saving in 3 or 4 spots on most of them. Overall, a fun WAD with thoughtful and challenging set pieces, but I definitely preferred the smaller (i.e. ~200-300 enemy) maps versus the 800-1000+ sprawls. Resuming Unholy Realms, which is positively quaint by comparison, and I'm already on MAP10.
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Mar 11, 2024 22:09
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:Sunlust is behind me now. The last several levels, I stopped running with the "one save per map" rule, and ended up saving in 3 or 4 spots on most of them. Overall, a fun WAD with thoughtful and challenging set pieces, but I definitely preferred the smaller (i.e. ~200-300 enemy) maps versus the 800-1000+ sprawls. I have to ask: how long did it take you to get out of the first room in Go gently caress Yourself? (MAP29)
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Mar 11, 2024 23:08
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Arivia posted:I have to ask: how long did it take you to get out of the first room in Go gently caress Yourself? (MAP29) If I'm remembering it correctly, like 3 hours and fifty deaths 
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Mar 11, 2024 23:09
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:If I'm remembering it correctly, like 3 hours and fifty deaths Yeah that sounds about right. I didn’t realize I’d spoiled the experience by watching tatsurdcacocaco’s speed run so I knew to hug the cyberdemon butt and press the switch to pop open the trap, then you can grab the rocket launcher and run to the annex on the side with the hell nobles for a safer start.
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Mar 11, 2024 23:15
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Sunder seems less "how good are you at DooM" and more "how long can you slam this phone book on your testicles" to beat a fight but even still getting past a huge fight kind of gives me the 'finally beat O & S fight in Dark Souls' feeling. I crave more sunlust and sunder.
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Mar 12, 2024 02:31
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pro starcraft loser posted:Sunder seems less "how good are you at DooM" and more "how long can you slam this phone book on your testicles" to beat a fight but even still getting past a huge fight kind of gives me the 'finally beat O & S fight in Dark Souls' feeling. I crave more sunlust and sunder. Luckily there’s more extreme challenge wads like that. Ribbiks is still mapping crazy challenge stuff, and then there’s things like Abandon, Death in Excess, Dance on the Water, and even Dimensions (the map set so hard Decino won’t play it even with saves).
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Mar 12, 2024 02:53
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Arivia posted:Luckily there’s more extreme challenge wads like that. Ribbiks is still mapping crazy challenge stuff, and then there’s things like Abandon, Death in Excess, Dance on the Water, and even Dimensions (the map set so hard Decino won’t play it even with saves). Oh, thank you!! I'll check these out once I finish ALT. Pretty fun so far, interesting maps. Only real complaint is the decision to replace a lot of sounds for no real reason.
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Mar 12, 2024 14:44
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pro starcraft loser posted:Oh, thank you!! If you check out Brendondle and Brainfreezzzzz on youtube they post playthroughs of a lot of this stuff. You don't have to watch the playthroughs, but if you see what they're playing it'll give you a pretty good idea of new stuff to try in that vein.
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Mar 12, 2024 14:48
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I've been on a low-key GZDoom kick lately and I'm sad I hadn't gotten back in sooner. Someone in a discord I'm in was going through MyHouse for the first time, and it sent me down a hole of "man, I should really see what else people are dropping", so I downloaded RAMP 2023 and have been chipping away at a map or two when I'm in the mood. Have there been any maps that make good use of the light-amplification goggles or the automap? I almost never check the map even in vanilla Doom unless I'm completely disoriented, and it's way easier to set your light levels in the source ports, so it feels like these two might have become completely vestigial; is there anything out there that'll change my mind?
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Mar 13, 2024 17:48
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The Muffinlord posted:I've been on a low-key GZDoom kick lately and I'm sad I hadn't gotten back in sooner. Someone in a discord I'm in was going through MyHouse for the first time, and it sent me down a hole of "man, I should really see what else people are dropping", so I downloaded RAMP 2023 and have been chipping away at a map or two when I'm in the mood. Saying an item is useless because of sourceport functions is kind of silly and I'd argue a bugaboo of the community in general (especially when it comes to turning on GZDoom features in maps not built for them). People tell you what source ports something is designed for so you know what the intended play experience is like; amping up your brightness so you don't have to worry about spectres in the dark is a similar trick to turning on vertical aiming so you can snipe far away enemies or flying stuff easier. In other words, yes, people do still use light amp goggles effectively, but it's not gonna mean much if you're fuckin around with your own light levels to make them useless. Unfortunately no specific maps come to mind for this that I can recommend, but I've sure got ideas of maps where they were super useful. For the computer area map, there's actually a really easy example of it being super helpful: Plutonia MAP28 gives you one super early in and then has you crossing the map back and forth to make progress, so the displayed map gives you an idea of what progress you've made and where you've still got to go. Getting the computer map is often used as a navigation aid in complicated maps patterned after Eternal Doom and stuff, so Akeldama has some stuff in that vein if you want something more modern. And it's always helpful for figuring out what secrets you've missed (again, a thing some sourceports make easier/obsolete with highlighting secret sectors).
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Mar 13, 2024 21:51
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Takes No Damage posted:If anything, the new maps look easier or at least better designed than the older ones. I say this only by watching decino stream them but that's the vibe I get. The latest release especially has a really impressive section where you have 6 buttons, 3 spawn waves of enemies and 3 raise platforms in different configurations, allowing you to mix and match what fight you do with what room layout. If you've made it through the OG stuff you MIGHT AS WELL keep going (I just want you to keep posting trip reports, it's interesting to hear how playing through the maps feels for a 'normal' person vs a YouTube Doom SavantTM. So, three days later, turns out... no, they aren't. loving hell, Babylon's Chimera is the single most difficult map I've ever completed, by a huge margin. Every fight is the most difficult bullshit fight you ever saw, and there's like 100 of them.
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Mar 13, 2024 22:01
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Arivia posted:Saying an item is useless because of sourceport functions is kind of silly and I'd argue a bugaboo of the community in general (especially when it comes to turning on GZDoom features in maps not built for them). People tell you what source ports something is designed for so you know what the intended play experience is like; amping up your brightness so you don't have to worry about spectres in the dark is a similar trick to turning on vertical aiming so you can snipe far away enemies or flying stuff easier. Fair enough, I suppose that's on me not playing them as intended. I do try to keep my lighting on "Vanilla"; I was just struck by the thought of "hmm, I haven't really seen anyone play around with these two powerups much". I'm happy to be wrong on this, and if anyone's got map packs or individual levels they can recommend that use either item really well, I'll be happy to have more to play.
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Mar 13, 2024 22:03
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khwarezm posted:So, three days later, turns out... no, they aren't. There's a fascinating thing at the very end of the map, like the last fight before the standard exit, that I've never seen in any other video game and it's kind of surprising considering how common it is irl. When you're done, click on this link to find out what the gently caress you were just fighting in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepwell
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Mar 13, 2024 22:03
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Light amp goggles just make everything look so ugly. I wish the effect was like "all brightness levels+100" instead of "set all brightness to 255" so you could use it to navigate dark areas but still have gradients, shades, lighting effects etc
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Mar 13, 2024 22:07
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Arivia posted:There's a fascinating thing at the very end of the map, like the last fight before the standard exit, that I've never seen in any other video game and it's kind of surprising considering how common it is irl. When you're done, click on this link to find out what the gently caress you were just fighting in: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepwell Oh yes, the map is absolutely gorgeous, and has a great soundtrack, its very appealing looking at the off the wall use of architecture and textures to hint at a kind of Mesopotamian wonderland (a lot of the map also clearly takes a lot of visual cues from the Ishtar Gate) while the 20th crush of 1000 revenants and 50 Arch-Viles kill you instantly 4 dozen times. Unfortunately its so absurdly gigantic with such complex geometry that you really have to knock all of the settings down to basic, no Hardware Accelerated rendering past these gates.
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Mar 13, 2024 22:10
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khwarezm posted:Oh yes, the map is absolutely gorgeous, and has a great soundtrack, its very appealing looking at the off the wall use of architecture and textures to hint at a kind of Mesopotamian wonderland (a lot of the map also clearly takes a lot of visual cues from the Ishtar Gate) while the 20th crush of 1000 revenants and 50 Arch-Viles kill you instantly 4 dozen times. Where did some of the source material come from? The blue lady looked familiar but can't find it anywhere? (And yes, the map is absolutely brutal)
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Mar 13, 2024 23:04
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The Muffinlord posted:I've been on a low-key GZDoom kick lately and I'm sad I hadn't gotten back in sooner. Someone in a discord I'm in was going through MyHouse for the first time, and it sent me down a hole of "man, I should really see what else people are dropping", so I downloaded RAMP 2023 and have been chipping away at a map or two when I'm in the mood. Its an old map, but 'Grove' deliberately uses the automap as part of the gameplay, treating it like more of a 'treasure map' of sorts. Honestly something I kinda wish there was more of.
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Mar 14, 2024 14:17
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Arivia posted:Death in Excess Just started this (abandoned ALT, maps got annoying) and this is pretty good so far!
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Mar 14, 2024 15:07
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A good use of the lightamp goggles can be seen as early as E1M4: Phobos Lab in the original Doom. Near the end of the map is a dark pulsating light room full of columns, explosive barrels, specters, and shotgun guys and it can be pretty disorienting and dangerous without the goggles if you aren't already familiar with it.
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Mar 14, 2024 15:58
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