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Vargatron posted:Okay, I'm gonna roll one of these next game. The full list of racial kits: Halfling: Knight of the Paw (cavalier) Gnome: Phantasmal Mage (arcanist) Elf: Spell Dancer (magus) Oread: Student of Stone (monk) Aasimar: Purifier (oracle) Tiefling: Reformed Fiend (bloodrager) Dwarf: Stonelord (paladin) Half-Elf: Master of All (rogue) Half-Orc: Wildland Shaman (shaman) Human: Imitator (slayer) Kitsune: Nine Tailed Heir (sorcerer) Dhamir: Cruoromancer (wizard)
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Mar 7, 2024 21:09
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Look at all these kits, cool. Anyway, three of my stable party members are a basic caster - loremaster combo 
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Mar 7, 2024 21:52
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steinrokkan posted:Look at all these kits, cool. Anyway, three of my stable party members are a basic caster - loremaster combo I considered aiming Yua for Loremaster because I knew there were special interactions with an upcoming character if the PC is a Loremaster. Then I discovered that those interactions further require you to be on the Lich path, so welp. I have alternative plans in mind for explaining how prestige classes work in the future.
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Mar 7, 2024 21:56
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A Love That Crushes Like a Structural Support Column In ?honor? of one of the goons who inspired me to consider doing my own LPs, and the one who turned out to be faking a life to the internet of being a Steven Seagal character.  In addition to places you can actually visit on the world map, there are side points like this that just award a smattering of items (crafting materials in this case) for visiting, without being actual new maps.  This is the Silken Thread Atelier, one of the suspected cultist hideouts Anevia said to check out.  There are indeed cultists.  Most importantly, this guy is down in the basement - not just a rare example of an enemy kineticist, but one with an actual kit, dark kineticist.  I've been skipping over most loot now that I'm not using, but this piece is very noteworthy if you plan to play a kineticist yourself. You would do well to talk to Anevia and beeline straight here for this item if you do.  The main destination tonight, however, is the Tower of Estrod, one of the primary objectives from Irabeth.   Spooky ghosts pop up when you arrive. What they do depends on your mythic choices so far - including the one-or-the-other ones in Neathholm and the Shield Maze. If you've taken majority Demon choices, the ghosts will do nothing. If you've only taken Demon choices, the ghosts will attack you. If you've taken majority Angel choices, the ghosts will cast a minor buff on you. If you've taken only Angel choices (seen here), the ghosts will cast a major buff on you.  There's only one path forward at the moment.  It's so we can watch a cutscene.   "It's the last bastion of the crusader resistance. We'll flatten them and claim our victory!" "Into the Abyss with all crusaders and the Defender's Heart! Kilas, the city is ours already! Now it's time to enjoy the spoils! Split up into groups, quickly! I'll tell you where to go and what to bring back..." "Faxon, you idiot, go back to Baphomet, he must be missing his lapdog! Everyone here will be following my orders! I'm in charge!" "We won't submit to you, you dirty Deskarite! Keep out of this, Kilas, or I'll curse all your extremities to wither and drop off! Everyone, listen to me! What we're going to do is..." "Looking for a fight, Faxon? Well, you've got one!" Our job would have been so much harder if most cultists could spell 'competence.'   "If the demons and their mortal agents were better organized, the crusaders would have been crushed long before now. But they're always trying to spread in every direction. Right now, in every corner of the city, there are demons like Kilas who are trying to consolidate their forces to launch a joint attack on the Defender's Heart." "Who are you?" "Greybor. I'm a contract killer who's been hired to kill that demon that just walloped that other one. I've tracked him all the way here and was planning to kill him when that crowd showed up, so I had to pull back." "What do you suggest?" "Don't even think about trying to take them all on single-handed. You'll be mincemeat. Better to warn the crusaders in the Defender's Heart that the demons are planning to attack. And later, once the attackers have been taken care of, it'll be much easier to sweep through this tower and eliminate the defenders left behind." "Like when dueling with rapiers. One doesn't lunge, but waits for the opponent to strike and leave themselves open." (Greybor's eyebrows shoot up, as though he wasn't expecting to hear such words from the delicate young lady. He nods anyway.) "Yeah, exactly like that." "Thanks for the advice. I'll be going now." "I hope you act wisely." "You're so sad... please take care!" (The dwarf looks at Ember and sadness gleams in his grim eyes. He answers in a surprisingly soft voice:) "What are you doing here, girl? This is no place for people like you. Go, hide somewhere safe." So what Greybor was proposing was smart, sensible, and exactly what the cultists would have expected anyone to do in our position. Maybe it was Ramien rubbing off on me, but I decided that there might be virtue in the less expected course of action. First, this little button. The party in general isn't much good at hiding, but you don't need to be great at it for this part.  Ignore Kilas yelling here, we haven't been detected. You see, making skill checks - like the Mobility check to skitter across the partially collapsed balcony - doesn't break stealth. And neither does this Athletics check.   We're fine, still in stealth. Just an accident.  Swing back past where you entered and head around the other balcony..  Demons go squish!  Continue around the balcony to the rear and you have a perfect position to set up a shooting gallery on the survivors.  Ding dong, the witch is dead! Please don't start singing. Seconded. Bards are important transmission media for oral history! Kitsune girl, what precisely did you mean by 'ding dong?' *snrk* What was so funny? I'll tell you when you're older. Enter the basement, and this fellow runs up.  "Who are you?" "I am Telmer, the scribe and senior aide to Lord Xanthir the Plagued One. And, do forgive me... but Faxon has been assigned to this command, has he not? Where is he?" "Indisposed. What are you doing here?" "I'm compiling a list of the valuable crusader artifacts. Lord Xanthir has ordered that everything of use should be transported from Kenabres and saved from the looting and destruction. We chose the museum as the place to collect and sort through the trophies. Unfortunately, the local thieves have proved even quicker off the mark than the demons. They ransacked the museum in the first few hours of the assault. But there are some objects of interest among the exhibits they left behind. The museum custodian has been kind enough to advise me on those... But where is Faxon?" "Fine, he's upstairs in a pool of his own blood. [Attack] Get your hands off the crusader relics!" (The half-elf leaps back nimbly, pulling a sheaf of papers from his bag as he goes.) "No! I have valuable letters from Lord Xanthir here! I must destroy them!" (The cultist balls the pages up in his fist and shoves them into his mouth, then begins furiously chewing like a hamster.) All things considered, I give him points for effort. "Nooo! I want to read what it says! Spit that out!" "Want some salt or pepper with that? Now I've never tried eating paper myself, but a little seasoning goes a long way, whatever the meal." [Good] (Help the poor wretch) "I don't care if those pages contain the innermost secrets of Baphomet himself I am not touching that!" (The cultist coughs violently, and then, after taking a trembling breath, leaps up and takes off running. He disappears, leaving you with the wad of correspondence that is much the worse for wear.) Ooh, let me read it! Let me just straighten out the wrinkles... In retrospect this is probably how Radiance found its way down into the Shield Maze. I can only imagine they hoped to corrupt or destroy the sword.    No prizes for guessing we'll find all of these items in due time.  While looting whatever's left in the museum, this is probably the most noteworthy thing. Excellent armor for Cammy, Woljiff, or a suitable PC.  The curator is also down here and doesn't care about you looting the place.  "I'm not going to hurt you." (The old man goggles at you in terror, but he doesn't lower his wand. A rustling comes from somewhere behind him rats. The old man wheels around fearfully and peers in the direction the sound came from. The hand holding the wand gradually falls to his side. When he turns back to you, there is no fear in his expression, only vague confusion.) "You... I'm sorry, I was distracted... What were we talking about?" "Who are you?" (The old man lowers his wand in confusion.) "I... I think..." (His expression grows distraught and mournful, as though he is on the verge of crying.) "I forget..." (His gaze falls on a piece of cloth carefully stitched to his cloak, which reads: "Teldon, Tower of Estrod museum custodian.") "Aha! I am Teldon, the custodian here. My memory isn't what it once was. My faculties are failing me... But at one time, my mind could cut like a diamond. I was a battle mage, one of the few who survived the battle of the Lost Chapel. But I'm an old man now, sometimes I set down my keys one moment, and the next, I can't remember where I've put them..." "Controlled amnesia the ability of the mind to eliminate non-essential information." (Nenio peers at the old man with suspicion.) "But what we have here is a case of plain old senility." "It didn't happen because of magic tricks." (Ember sadly shakes her head.) "He went to war and saw lots of scary things. So scary that his memory ran away so it would never show him the bad things ever again." (With a pleased smile, the old man pulls a hefty set of keys from his pocket and proudly shows them to you.) "Here they are, my keys, my little lovelies, I would never give you away to anyone." (Remembering himself, the old man hastily stows the keys back in his pocket.) "What are the keys for?"Note: there's a bunch of ways to obtain his keys, which allow you to access everything in the basement but Yua has, uh, already picked every lock, disarmed every trap, and taken everything down here.   "I see." (The old man nods vaguely as his gaze wanders around the room.) "Go to the Defender's Heart. There are good people there, they'll look after you." (The old custodian gives you a toothless smile.) "Really? It's safe there? But how can I leave the museum..." (His gaze falls upon the traces of the ransacking, and the old man becomes lost in thought, as though trying to find an explanation for what he is seeing...) "You know what happened here, don't you? Thieves, they were! Prowling about! Wanted to rob the museum! But I stopped them! Those ne'er-do-wells came in here and I gave them what for, a dose of battle magic! They won't be back! Don't you worry about me, I may be old, but I can still hold my own!" "So long, then."And with that, we are done with the Tower of Estrod. On to the next objective. The Crimson Path (this update) Abrikandilu 2 Cultists 12 Dretch 4 Cythereal fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Mar 9, 2024 |
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Mar 9, 2024 02:33
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Cythereal posted:A Love That Crushes Like a Structural Support Column I think it's fair to say that, as a community, we are all hating this poo poo. Cythereal posted:
Kineticists are super interesting, as a class. Apart from balancing the burn mechanics and swapping buffs in and out based on the needs of the fight, there's also the flexibility you get with different elements and the fact that the class is based on constitution, of all things. It's nice to have some stuff in here that isn't a remix or combination of the classic (har har) character classes.
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Mar 9, 2024 03:01
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If youre not careful with those columns, they can seriously injure your own party. It happened to me my first run.
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Mar 9, 2024 03:16
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Kineticists are also super weird because a single gameplay change made them absurdly powerful in Kingmaker and still pretty dang good here in WotR, where they are mid as hell in the actual tabletop game. That one change is "it takes a standard action to stand up, not a move action." Enter the Kineticist and their ability to make giant fields of prone effects.
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Mar 9, 2024 04:13
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ProfessorCirno posted:Kineticists are also super weird because a single gameplay change made them absurdly powerful in Kingmaker and still pretty dang good here in WotR, where they are mid as hell in the actual tabletop game. That one change is "it takes a standard action to stand up, not a move action." Standing up is a move action in Kingmaker/Wrath, they didn't change its action type. You can pretty clearly see this if you ever get knocked down next to an enemy, as you can stand up and whack them in the same turn. The limitation of Kineticist in tabletop, aside from Deadly Earth not even coming until 13th, is this thing called "a DM can adapt on the fly." Suddenly your bright light show (what gathering power is explicitly called out as doing) gets every enemy targeting you every fight. Oh, and they're both spread out and flying. Additionally, one of the big things about Deadly Earth is that it's SO dangerous, that you can generally just open and end a fight with it by throwing it out outside of the aggro radius of enemies. Shockingly, an actual DM isn't going to let you get away with this over and over. Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Mar 9, 2024 |
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Mar 9, 2024 04:35
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We can see how wildly incompetent these demon forces are, and yet they still have this entire world reeling. If this area had an uncontrolled link to the Hells instead of the Abyss, I feel like we'd be so much worse off. Devils tend to be more competent or, alternatively, obedient, which is way more dangerous in pitched military engagements.
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Mar 9, 2024 07:47
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So...what exactly makes a Kineticist "dark"?
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Mar 9, 2024 09:25
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Nostalgamus posted:So...what exactly makes a Kineticist "dark"? They use dark energy, maybe? JT Jag posted:We can see how wildly incompetent these demon forces are, and yet they still have this entire world reeling. If this area had an uncontrolled link to the Hells instead of the Abyss, I feel like we'd be so much worse off. Devils tend to be more competent or, alternatively, obedient, which is way more dangerous in pitched military engagements. Still, it very much undercuts how threatening they are, which lowers the tension in the story. I mean, I'm supposed to worry because of these dumbasses? This could be very much deliberate, of course.
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Mar 9, 2024 09:59
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The incompetence of the demons and their cultists is only surpassed by the incompetence of literally everyone on the crusader side. That and I guess demons have virtually infinite "troops"
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Mar 9, 2024 10:21
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Lord Koth posted:Standing up is a move action in Kingmaker/Wrath, they didn't change its action type. You can pretty clearly see this if you ever get knocked down next to an enemy, as you can stand up and whack them in the same turn. The limitation of Kineticist in tabletop, aside from Deadly Earth not even coming until 13th, is this thing called "a DM can adapt on the fly." Suddenly your bright light show (what gathering power is explicitly called out as doing) gets every enemy targeting you every fight. Oh, and they're both spread out and flying. Huh, you're right on the move action. I'll chalk it up to poor memory. Beyond that, I think the games don't include the "you get a bonus vs trip for every leg you have" rule PF1e has, and in general made it easier to stack CMB vs CMD; at the very least, both games feel like it's substantially easier to beat CMD then in tabletop. I'll say also that kineticists often fall foul to one of the neverending issues in D&D - a combat system built around exact measurements with an assumption for interesting terrain, mixed with overbearing rules that make it kind of a pain to actually try to plan all that out, and DMs that mostly stage fights either without actual maps or representation, or lots of just big bland open spaces. Video games sorta need maps by default, which makes terrain fuckery more powerful. But, again, I'm almost positive there's something going on underneath the hood that makes trip way better in the game then it is in the tabletop. JT Jag posted:We can see how wildly incompetent these demon forces are, and yet they still have this entire world reeling. If this area had an uncontrolled link to the Hells instead of the Abyss, I feel like we'd be so much worse off. Devils tend to be more competent or, alternatively, obedient, which is way more dangerous in pitched military engagements. Part of it is the difficulty. Remember, this is the easiest difficulty in the game. Plenty of fights that've been kinda glossed over absolutely pushed my poo poo in the first time I tried playing it on Core difficulty; the water elemental is practically a puzzle boss because failure to manage it in some specific ways leads to it murdering the whole party, for example, and there's some demons we haven't seen yet that can appear this early on that can wipe the party. Every round you're in the cloud, you make a fort save; fail, and you lose your standard action, meaning you no longer have any offensive actions. There's an optional demon at this level that solo'd my team when I first started playing. It's not even like, a named boss or anything - it's just a slightly higher level type of demon. Also, all demons are going to be taking less damage from nearly all your attacks until/unless you get weapons specifically built to injure them. My personal MVP item of chapter one is the humble cold iron arrows if just so my archer characters can actually hurt the little fuckers. Part of it is that, well, this is a heroic fantasy game. We're the big ol' heroes here to save the day. Of course they're going to ensure that's actually possible. I mean, we DID encounter Minhago, who, on all other difficulties, generally wipes the floor with you. That's the standard result of normal low level nobodies trying to take on the higher level demons. Part of this is also intentional. This shows why the Worldwound hasn't enveloped the entire world yet. One of the basic rules of many D&D inspired settings is that evil loses because it can't stop falling into in-fighting. One of the stated reasons that the gods don't confront the Abyss directly is that doing so would get the demons to actually start working together. So long as they're scattered, they aren't a full on existential threat. This whole thing is just the pet project of two demon lords specifically, which is why you don't have the entire pantheon uniting to stop this threat as they've done in the past. This isn't a global crises, it's a regional threat. It's a big region that it's a threat to, and it could become something bigger, granted...but it hasn't. Not yet, at least. As for the Hells...why would they invade? For starters, breaking open a hole to invade sounds a whole lot like breaking the rules, and devils aren't about that. They also wouldn't really gain anything by it. The Hells wants people to willingly sign their souls away; mass slaughter would just send souls away from the Hells. Besides, they already have their own country. They don't need a Worldwound equivilent.
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Mar 9, 2024 12:51
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Nostalgamus posted:So...what exactly makes a Kineticist "dark"? Normally, kineticists deal with the backlash of channeling their elemental powers beyond the level that the mortal body can handle safely by suffering the consequences themselves, and managing this backlash is one of the central mechanics of the class. Dark kineticists instead offload the elemental backlash onto those around them, especially the souls of the recently dead, using them as capacitors to absorb the kineticist's backlash before they depart the plane.
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Mar 9, 2024 12:54
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Oh Telmer, you scamp! The most lovable cultist.
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Mar 9, 2024 14:13
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steinrokkan posted:The incompetence of the demons and their cultists is only surpassed by the incompetence of literally everyone on the crusader side. That and I guess demons have virtually infinite "troops" It does kind of say something for the incompetence of the demonic forces that they have the advantage of Infinite Troops and a colossal, worldrending gate to their home plane they can just walk through at any time, and they still have not been able to overrun the Crusaders entirely. And yes, if this had been the Hells instead of the Abyss the Worldwound lead to, the entire planet would be properly hosed because Devils have their poo poo together and know how to wage proper military campaigns, where as Demons think the ideal strategy to every problem is either setting fire to everything or splattering yourself with the gore of your enemies until you run out of gore to splatter.
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Mar 9, 2024 14:24
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Also, remember that the only reason the demons even took Kenabres (and are struggling to hold it) is because Deskari personally intervened - and then hosed off. Minagho's staked everything on her ability to corrupt the Wardstone, but she hasn't succeeded yet and Yua is rallying the crusaders and defeating Minagho's army in detail. Many demons and cultists are, individually, extremely dangerous. What they are not, as a rule, is a unified army with a cohesive plan.
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Mar 9, 2024 14:33
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Rorahusky posted:It does kind of say something for the incompetence of the demonic forces that they have the advantage of Infinite Troops and a colossal, worldrending gate to their home plane they can just walk through at any time, and they still have not been able to overrun the Crusaders entirely. As stated above in regard to the Hells. 1. Thats illegal and they are lawful 2. That would prompt a quite legal counter invasion in response
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Mar 9, 2024 15:25
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Does Greybor have any comment after you squish the tough enemies in the circle by the tower entrance?
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Mar 9, 2024 15:52
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Kanthulhu posted:Does Greybor have any comment after you squish the tough enemies in the circle by the tower entrance? He does not. If you tell him you're going to attack, he'll rush in when you initiate combat to go after the leaders. Greybor is a professional hitman of the 'Nothing personal, kid' school. Like Ember and Daeran, I've heard that he's based on one of the PCs when the head Owlcat devs played the tabletop adventure path before making this game.
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Mar 9, 2024 15:57
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It's a bit of a mistake to say there'd be no infighting amongst devils, too; they're organized, but that doesn't mean they aren't evil. The struggle in Hell is to evolve into more powerful forms, which you generally do with the approval of your superiors. But that means that everyone else at the same level as you is a competitor, everyone below you is jockeying for your position, and everyone above you is a target both for short-term toadying and long-term betrayal. They aren't just going to cut each other dead in the streets like demons will, but their machiavellian schemes against each other are also going to be counterproductive. Think office politics, but with more murder and horrible flesh blobs.
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Mar 9, 2024 16:43
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A Hell invasion would still go better for the Hells and worse for Kenabres than this is going, however. For all that there are potentially infinite demons, you've got to get enough of them to give a drat for that infinity to matter.
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Mar 9, 2024 17:17
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You're getting pretty far afield, folks. I'll talk about Hell and devils in this game when they're relevant. And my stance is gently caress em all. I wouldn't have recruited Daeran if this weren't an LP and that was not the last distasteful decision I will make for the sake of showing off more of the game.
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Mar 9, 2024 17:48
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Going back to demons I think that they, much like some real world invaders, might be incompetent and ridiculously stupid, but they simply outnumber humans by order of magnitude and can drown them in corpses.
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Mar 9, 2024 17:51
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Tower Offence Ah, the Tower of Estrod. While this encounter is in the AP, its presentation and even location in Wrath has been greatly altered. In the AP, the Tower is practically in front of Defender's Heart, as opposed to its ingame location far to the south of the inn, and is more of an observation post that the cultists of Baphomet use to monitor the Heart.  OG Faxon, proving that impractical armour can be gender-universal. Indeed, the Tower was probably meant to be the last obstacle that the PCs face before finally finding sanctuary at the Heart, so unlike the cultist bastion that it is in Heart, in the AP it was simply Faxon and two cultists puttering about the tower. Even with his Bestow Curse, Blindness/Deafness and Vampiric Touch spells, Faxon shouldn't be more than a speed bump to your PCs, who should probably be around Level 3-4 by this point. Honestly, the real trial for AP players should be their exhaustion and maybe lack of spells, depending on how fast the DM's decided to move them along.  Kenabres post-Deskari. The reason is that in the AP, the PCs emerge from the caves under Kenabres at point H16 (light blue circle) near the southeast edge of the map, which is roughly the area the Tower of Estrod is in Wrath. They travel to the AP's Tower of Estrod at point N (light green circle), which is just a hop skip and jump from the Defender's Heart at point O (yellow circle). As you can probably tell, Yua's journey was much easier than what AP players would have had to endure. I guess that owlcat, for all their reputation of being rear end in a top hat DMs, decided to throw players a bone by giving them a free rest in the inn after a few post-cave fights. You young gamers really are getting soft
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Mar 9, 2024 19:19
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Cythereal posted:I wouldn't have recruited Daeran if this weren't an LP and that was not the last distasteful decision I will make for the sake of showing off more of the game. Hopefully this isn't too much of a spoiler question, but hwo familiar are you with the characters you don't usually bring along outside an LP? Because there are some Evil characters in the game who I would absolutely bring along because I find their character arcs and alignment expressions interesting/fascinating, and I'm wondering if you are expecting any potential surprises from those characters, especially those who you might be bringing along for the first time. Szarrukin posted:Going back to demons I think that they, much like some real world invaders, might be incompetent and ridiculously stupid, but they simply outnumber humans by order of magnitude and can drown them in corpses. Honestly, if it weren't for the PCs, Deskari's plans would have worked- he isn't in Kenabres because he doesn't need to be. We've seen it ourselves that the city is reeling, the defenders are shattered and broken, and for all Irabeth's talk about fighting back, if the PCs weren't around the Heart would have been overwhelmed by demons. Hulrun would have also burned the Desnans, and the thieflings would have just turned and ran off. For all it looks from the outside, Deskari's completely reasonable in thinking that the city has fallen.
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Mar 9, 2024 19:35
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Demons are quite a bit more powerful than the average mortal.
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Mar 9, 2024 19:37
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Demons are way more powerful then the regular people they're up against. It doesn't show much since the LP is on Story, but a lot of demons even early on can really mess you up and have a lot of dangerous abilities you need to deal with when fighting them. If it wasn't for the protagonist's presence, the city would have absolutely no chance and be wiped out.
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Mar 9, 2024 19:38
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CommissarMega posted:Hopefully this isn't too much of a spoiler question, but hwo familiar are you with the characters you don't usually bring along outside an LP? Because there are some Evil characters in the game who I would absolutely bring along because I find their character arcs and alignment expressions interesting/fascinating, and I'm wondering if you are expecting any potential surprises from those characters, especially those who you might be bringing along for the first time. Daeran is the one I'm the least familiar with. I don't like his character archetype even when they're good guys, and he's going to live most of this game on the bench. Cammy, I've never had a game where she lived past early Act 3 and there's a non-trivial chance she won't last even that long in this game. There's one other evil companion in the future I utterly despise, but at least he doesn't try to bone a female PC like Daeran does. I usually research games extensively before I buy them, so I know the broad strokes of every character in this game and key points of their character arcs. Most likely the core party throughout the LP will be Yua, Nenio, Ember, Seelah, and two characters who will join in the future. The main potential for surprises I'm concerned about is from crusade mode, which I've never played before because I own two actual Heroes of Might & Magic games I can play when I want. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Mar 9, 2024 |
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Mar 9, 2024 19:42
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Cythereal posted:I wouldn't have recruited Daeran if this weren't an LP and that was not the last distasteful decision I will make for the sake of showing off more of the game. Are there consequences for not recruiting/not finding the optional party members?
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Mar 9, 2024 20:21
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Gun Jam posted:Are there consequences for not recruiting/not finding the optional party members? Fewer options for certain things in the future, but it's entirely possible to ditch every single companion and make do with custom mercenaries.
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Mar 9, 2024 20:22
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achtungnight posted:If youre not careful with those columns, they can seriously injure your own party. It happened to me my first run. But you get an achievement for that!
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Mar 9, 2024 22:13
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The nice thing about Daeren is that his own storyline is more or less entirely self-contained. You can sit him on the bench and still do all his content no problem. You miss out on his being catty and petty about everything, but if you don't like his archtype, you aren't really missing out on much. Melia likewise has content but once you figure out what she is, the content is...largely what you think it'll be. It has a single twist at the end that no doubt this thread will talk about in detail LONG before we ever reach that point, ahahaha. The last character who's been hinted at is a fan favorite, and they're definitely an interesting one, and I look forward to talking about why he's (perhaps accidentally) well written in some terrible ways, and why so many fans are utterly wrong about him. In the end, alignment is a terrible mechanic that should've been removed 6 editions and 50 years ago. Alas, it was not, and D&D and D&D inspired games still suffer under the yolk of a mechanic that was explicitly designed to further Gygax's own libertarian ideals of white patriarchal imperialist violence.
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Mar 9, 2024 22:53
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One of the things I really appreciate about Wrath is that you're not forced into the PC liking or getting along with anyone. Indeed, every companion in the game is in fact optional - Seelah, Cammy, and Lann/Wendy are forced into the party, but once you make it to Defender's Heart you can boot them out if you want. When I prepared my analysis of the Azata story themes that I'll post when the time comes to actually lock in a path, I realized that a huge chunk of the first draft boils down to how much I appreciate that this game gives you the agency to like or dislike, keep or boot, whoever you like. Something that I find doubly important given that Azata leans on romantic fantasy as a genre. You really can pick and choose who your PC's friends are in this game versus who are merely professional colleagues and who you outright kick out, and that is for me an enormous breath of fresh air after playing so many character-driven games where the protagonist is forced to be friends with everyone but the bad guys.
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Mar 9, 2024 23:00
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idonotlikepeas posted:I think it's fair to say that, as a community, we are all hating this poo poo. if this is all a Dark id reference, when did him being a fake happen? I apparently missed that 
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Mar 10, 2024 00:53
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ProfessorCirno posted:The last character who's been hinted at is a fan favorite, and they're definitely an interesting one, and I look forward to talking about why he's (perhaps accidentally) well written in some terrible ways, and why so many fans are utterly wrong about him. Nissin Cup Nudist posted:if this is all a Dark id reference, when did him being a fake happen? Here. Cythereal posted:One of the things I really appreciate about Wrath is that you're not forced into the PC liking or getting along with anyone. Indeed, every companion in the game is in fact optional - Seelah, Cammy, and Lann/Wendy are forced into the party, but once you make it to Defender's Heart you can boot them out if you want.
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Mar 10, 2024 02:08
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The Mask Slips Now for why Cammy is still in the party.  After the first proper random encounter of the LP, at any rate.  It's an inconsequential affair, just a couple of schirs one of which has levels in barbarian. This is the standard for most random encounters in Wrath, just a little map with a handful of enemies. I will not make any note of further random encounters unless they feel particularly interesting to me for whatever reason.  Now to the actual task at hand.   "It's a tragedy to see one's house in such a sorry state. And I always had a few guards in my service, you know! I hope those blockheads died honorably, and didn't simply flee at the first sign of danger." (Horgus turns toward the corridor with a pensive expression on his face.) "My manor, you see, contains several items that are of great value to me. I wish to retrieve them before they are discovered by my fellow citizens, who in the current chaos seem have taken to thieving and marauding like ducks to water. So here's what I want you to do: take a stroll through my house, peek into the rooms, and if you find anyone kill them on the spot. That'll teach any other opportunists to stay away from Horgus Gwerm's manor! While I was standing here by the entrance, I could clearly hear the sound of someone rooting around inside. Any possessions of mine you find in there, you can keep. It's all as good as lost to me anyway. When you're sure the house is empty give me a signal from my study window. Wave a torch around or something like that. You can decide when you get there." "What are these valuable items, that they're worth risking your life by going back to the manor?" "Never you mind! I'm paying you to clear out the ruffians inside, not to ask questions!" (Horgus glares at you for a few seconds, before dropping his gaze.) "In any case, you will learn what this is all about just as soon as you clear the way to my study for me. So, restrain your curiosity for now." "You're sad about your things. Because of them, you want us to kill people." "Don't lecture me about right and wrong! If it gives you some comfort, let me assure you that marauders are not innocent little lambs, far from it. They would gladly kill you to get their hands on my possessions, mark my words." "I understand." "Well? Get on with it. Or are you waiting for a special order? I shall await your signal." (Horgus pauses.) "And good luck in there, I suppose."On the one hand, Horgus is obviously dodgy. On the other hand, he's been reliable about paying and he's quite correct about who is plundering his estate. And if you worship Abadar, god of law and trade, there's a fair bit of extra dialogue with him throughout the game where he's actually quite scrupulously honest about sticking to deals he's made. Horgus is a bit shady and certainly not the nicest guy around, but he's not evil. That being said...   If you turn right, head through the servants' quarters, and pick the lock on this door, there's this delightful little storage room. Nothing against people who are into this sort of thing, but yeah this isn't just someone's kink room, this is supposed to be more foreshadowing about Cammy. While the game will never acknowledge that you found this room, if you keep her alive you'll discover much later in the game that yeah these are all hers, and she's been preying on common folk in Kenabres for years, seducing them or just grabbing them off the streets, locking them up in her chambers, and... satisfying her appetites.  Enemies litter the mansion, a mix of cultists, cambions, and minor demons.  There's also a crafting recipe to learn. As a general rule I abhor crafting systems in any game they appear in and will likely ignore Wrath's as well.  I also realized I forgot to show this off earlier. While spontaneous casters like Yua and Ember just pick and learn spells as they level up, and divine casters like Cammy and Seelah are granted spells in job lots as they level, traditional arcane casters like Nenio learn spells by finding scrolls and expending the scroll to copy the spell into their repertoire. You can tell in the inventory by selecting Nenio (or anyone else with levels in a traditional arcane casting class, like Woljiff), seeing a scroll that has the quill symbol on it, and using the scroll. In the tabletop, this is actually supposed to be one of the key ways to limit a wizard from getting completely out of hand as the game goes on: the DM is the one who decides what spells they find.  This is Cammy's bedroom. Again, the game does not react to you discovering this.  In addition to armor for martial types, there is of course a variety of robes and clothes for the squishies. I toss this on Nenio rather than Ember because she has a weaker will save.  Most of the manor is uninteresting, just inconsequential loot and enemies you've seen before.  But this guy is new! Babaus are the next step up in the demon ranks from the dretches and abrikandilu Yua's been trashing. They're sneaky, carry spears, and have an enormous amount of damage reduction for this point in the game. If you're playing on Core or above, babaus are a very real threat at these levels.  The babau is the boss of this sidequest, and once you've cleared out the mansion you can tell Horgus to come up.  "If you'll follow me." "Family secrets about to be revealed! It's so thrilling!"This scene is why bringing Cammy along is required.   [Perception check passed!] (There's something off about the paintings in front of you. The blonde-haired boy in the Gwerm family colors doesn't look like Horgus in the least. The family portrait depicts Horgus alongside an unknown half-elf woman and a little girl who bears a striking resemblance to Camellia.) "Who's that in the paintings, Horgus?" "So you've noticed. It seems there's no point in hiding it anymore." (Horgus is silent for a few moments, then sighs and presses his lips into a hard line.) "You see, I have two secrets. Camellia is, in fact, my daughter. And I am not the real Horgus Gwerm." "If you're not Horgus Gwerm, then who are you?" "My real name is Darian Wytt. My parents were the servants of the real Gwerms, at their mansion on the eastern edge of Mendev. The Gwerms were generous and noble, but shortsighted. They burned through most of their fortune on charity when instead they should have taken better care of guarding the mansion. When I was ten or so, I used to play in the garden with the real Horgus Gwerm, who was just my age. I've no idea where the demons came from. Horgus ran to the mansion, and I bolted in the opposite direction. He was captured and killed, and I wasn't." (Horgus shrugs apologetically.) Crusaders came from the nearest city to aid us, but I was the only one who survived. They asked me my name, and I said I was Horgus Gwerm. That's the whole story." "Such a heart-wrenching tale! It never fails to bring a tear to my eyes!" "You are in no position to judge me, Camellia!" (Horgus's hands curl into fists, but his voice sounds more tired than angry.)So this is an interesting little quandary. Leaving aside Cammy's whole thing, since the game won't let you bring that up right now, it's worth considering what we know about this guy. He's a very successful businessman in his own right, and while he's rather shady, he's also been a devoted supporter of the crusaders per our conversations with Anevia. He's known to be a reliable businessman who scrupulously keeps his word and abides by the letter of the contracts he signs, but he is prone to leaving out information that might incriminate him. Personally, I err on the side of calling this a victimless crime from what we know of the situation. Yes, strictly speaking, stealing the identity of his friend was a crime and gave him entry to a life of wealth and privilege, but he's managed and retained that life through his own skill and ability, and has used his position to help the crusaders.  "You were just a scared child. I have nothing but sympathy for you. Besides, your lies didn't hurt anyone." (Horgus seems surprised as if he had been expecting a much stronger reaction.) "Hm. I... Never mind. I'd only like to assure you that your claim about 'not hurting anyone' is absolutely correct the vast fortune of the Gwerms had no rightful heirs. If there had been any heirs, I would most definitely have transferred ownership to them." "You committed a crime, and since then you have tried to atone. But let me guess no matter how much good you do, the guilt stays with you?" "It's true. How do you know this?" "I also made a mistake as a child. Mine was much more serious than yours in deed and in consequences. Many years passed before I learned to be at peace with it, so... I'm in no position to judge you." "It is difficult for me to speak openly about secrets which I have kept all these years. I have been hostage to them my entire life, strange as that sounds." "Camellia is your daughter?"If you go down the lawful route here, it's possible to end this by killing Horgus - and Cammy, who jumps in to defend her father. This is the earliest moment when you can kill Cammy, but after a test and reload where I did just that, I concluded that I couldn't justify it for Yua. I do feel that Cammy deserves death, but that's due to knowledge I have of the game from datamining and past playthroughs where I know that the best possible outcome for Cammy where she doesn't die is getting locked up in an insane asylum, and you can't put her down at this point because of her actions. Instead, she's collateral damage to you deciding 'Horgus' needs to die, and I do not believe that 'Horgus' deserves death. Oh well.  "Her mother, Iris, was a half-elf of humble origins. She worked in the gardens here. I wanted to unite the Gwerm family with another noble line. The Gwerm name could not be permitted to mix with commoners and thereby plunge into insignificance! Iris did not protest, and we successfully hid our connection. And when Camellia was born, I did not claim her as my own. As far as Mendev knows, Camellia is the daughter of a Gwerm family servant who died over ten years ago. And before you start telling me what a terrible father I am, I want to tell you something. My daughter wanted for nothing. All her whims were fulfilled as quickly as they arose. I hired the best teachers and bought her the best books. She always ate well and had warm clothes. Isn't that what a parent does?" "You've discovered my most terrible secret. Father cares so much about the Gwerm name that he raised me in our mansion, hiding me away from the whole world. I'll always be grateful to my father for everything he's done for me, even if Mendev society disapproves of some of his decisions. Would it be insolent of me to beg for your discretion regarding what you know about us?" "What are you planning to do now?" "Well, first and foremost, I shall reward you handsomely for your help. And then I shall burn these portraits. I have kept them all this time out of misplaced sentiment, but they serve no purpose now. My ravaged home will likely be picked to the bone and this secret room will inevitably be discovered. I don't want these paintings to be seen by anyone else." "I see." "Well, you certainly earned your payment. Here. It was a pleasure doing business with you. (Horgus is silent for a while.) "Camellia. I can tell from your face that you enjoyed fighting the demons in this worthy party. I only ask one thing: are you certain?" (Camellia doesn't answer but looks at Horgus with a half-smile lingering on her lips.) "Well then. Clearly, I can no longer keep you safe. Our house is destroyed, our servants scattered or dead." (Horgus stares into his daughter's face, as though he is seeking the answer to an unasked question. Then he turns his attention to you.) "But now follow me. We'll make sure that no one ever again discovers the secrets of Horgus Gwerm."Yeah, he knows a lot about Cammy that he's not telling us. Unfortunately, I can't press either of them further at this time, so here ends the tale of 'Horgus Gwerm' for the time being. The Crimson Path (this update) Abrikandilu 4 Babau 1 Cambions 7 Cultists 4 Giant Spiders 3 Schirs 2 Cythereal fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Mar 10, 2024 |
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Mar 10, 2024 14:54
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To be fair, significance of torture dungeon in Horgus's mansion totally went over my head, because y'know, all nobles are poo poo and "there's dedicated torture dungeon in noble mansion" was about as surprising as "water is wet".
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Mar 10, 2024 15:20
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In the original AP, while Iris and Camellia are original additions, Horgus's backstory is otherwise surprisingly unchanged. Due to the fact that Horgus's mansion is one of the areas they would have reached on the way to the Heart, and one of the few where it would have been plausible to rest in, the secret might have come out long before they reached the inn. Or maybe not, since his backstory wouldn't really have had much reason to come out beforehand. That said, I'm not sure anyone would have executed Horgus outside complete psycho playthroughs- not only is he a questgiver who sticks to the deals he makes, but apart from his prickly exterior he IS one of the Crusade's best allies, financially speaking. Indeed, in the second book of the AP (i.e. the next act of the game), he would have had a much larger role in the AP as the main avenue through which you gain supplies.
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Mar 10, 2024 16:17
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Yeah, same. Horgus liking BDSM a bit too much was well within my lovely rich noble expectations
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Mar 10, 2024 16:44
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