[Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

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(Thread IKs: fart simpson)

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Zohar posted:

I confused it with this weird Pentagon memo about the "strategic consequences of Chinese racism": https://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/...20%20201301.pdf

idk why it's redacted but here's the guy
Bradley Thayer, Author at Center for Security Policy

centerforsecuritypolicy.org posted:

Bradley A. Thayer is a Senior Fellow at the Center for Security Policy. He received his Ph.D. from the University of Chicago. He is a widely published author in a broad range of U.S. national security concerns, including the causes and consequences of China�s rise and its adverse implications for the U.S., its allies, and the other states in international politics; U.S., European, and Chinese grand strategies; the history of Chinese and Western strategic thought; China�s use of force; the origin, development, and rule of the Chinese Communist Party; the history of Communist thought and its evolution from Marx and Engels, through Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Gramsci, the Frankfurt School and critical theory to today; United States national security policy; nuclear deterrence; cyber warfare and deterrence; nuclear proliferation; terrorism; Arctic security; and NATO and transatlantic relations. His most recent books are the coauthored Understanding the China Threat and the coauthored How China Sees the World: Han-Centrism and the Balance of Power in International Politics.

# ? Mar 8, 2024 03:51

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# ? May 27, 2024 10:05

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

Dr. Jerrold Coe posted:

north korea set up orphanages for all the kids after the war and adopted them out to korean families and this gets turned into kim il sung power tripping over controlling kids' fates by "serious" writers like bradley martin (dead serious)

i watched a documentary awhile back about how north korea sent orphans to poland while the war was going on and then when the war was over they asked for the orphans to come back and they did

its an interesting story but you can tell the filmmakers didnt have a clue what to do with it as a concept

# ? Mar 8, 2024 03:55

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

ModernMajorGeneral posted:

Every other race is racist except for us, because we cancelled Kramer

probably newmans evilest and most effective plan of all

# ? Mar 8, 2024 03:57

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

It's amazing how Very Serious People's entire approach to China is basically a wall of thought-ending cliches.

# ? Mar 8, 2024 04:56

Weka: May 5, 2019; That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

This guy claims to be a Member of China's National Cultural Relics Society

https://twitter.com/ZhaiXiang5/status/1764873164289671348

gradenko_2000 posted:

it just doesn't make any sense that rats would be running around in full view of people, in areas that don't have any crevices for them to have resided in, in an environment that doesn't have any food for them to scrounge

You could well be correct, but there's restaurants at the airport, they don't necessarily need food right there, rats will travel. And there is always a crevice. Being out and about could be explained by poisoning although that rat doesn't look poisoned to me. Could be just setting in though and it's out looking for water.

skooma512 posted:

My theory is that the US would certainly like the world to remain unipolar, but also that a non-white country being the other pole is even less acceptable than usual. At least the Soviets were white.

I think America is having trouble actually refocusing on China because everyone involved is so racist they don't take the threat seriously. They're still fighting the Russians for Pete's sake!

# ? Mar 8, 2024 08:17

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

Danann posted:

https://twitter.com/Brad_Setser/status/1765128203960529291

the crusade against excess savings now turns to the excess savings of other countries

lmao. Just remembered the "savings glut". Everything old is new again

# ? Mar 8, 2024 08:21

Weka: May 5, 2019; That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

Zohar posted:

Sorry, misremembered on two counts, it was the State Dept and a talk not a memo: https://www.newsweek.com/china-threat-state-department-race-caucasian-1413202

"State Department Official on China Threat: For First Time U.S. Has 'Great Power Competitor That Is Not Caucasian'"

Russian Racists: Excuse me?!!

# ? Mar 8, 2024 08:29

Peggotty: May 9, 2014

skooma512 posted:

I'm still wondering why we just decided that they're definitely our enemy. They took over little specks of rock off their own shore. We still embargo Cuba because they violated the US sphere of influence generations ago, but Taiwan and unnamed sea mount tops are also American interests for some reason, at least Taiwan is somewhat comprehensible in that sense.

I'm sorry, how is that even a question? You are not allowed to have a leftist government on this planet that is the rightful property of White Americans. Especially not if you're a third world country. Taiwan became an "American interest" during the Chinese civil war because the commies were going to win and the American interest was that they don't.

# ? Mar 8, 2024 11:13

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

skooma512 posted:

I was reading the Reuters story of the Tiktok ban vote today and one of the congressmen called China an adversary.

I'm still wondering why we just decided that they're definitely our enemy. They took over little specks of rock off their own shore. We still embargo Cuba because they violated the US sphere of influence generations ago, but Taiwan and unnamed sea mount tops are also American interests for some reason, at least Taiwan is somewhat comprehensible in that sense.

My theory is that the US would certainly like the world to remain unipolar, but also that a non-white country being the other pole is even less acceptable than usual. At least the Soviets were white.

The US is seemingly the only one making proclamations that it's going to be at war with China eventually. I posit it's for the same thing driving much of US history up to now: White supremacy. European powers competing with us is one thing, a non-white power? Completely unacceptable.

1) actually sovereign nation independent of us foreign policy
2) BRICS
3) communist
4) not white

# ? Mar 8, 2024 11:20

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

the history of us foreign policy is avast with bombing or couping countries that did not choose us vassalage or attempted a policy of neutrality

# ? Mar 8, 2024 11:22

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

Peggotty posted:

I'm sorry, how is that even a question? You are not allowed to have a leftist government on this planet that is the rightful property of White Americans. Especially not if you're a third world country. Taiwan became an "American interest" during the Chinese civil war because the commies were going to win and the American interest was that they don't.

"Holding outer islands hostage against the Continental states for maximum geopolitical profit" comes straight out of the British playbook. But just that the Brits did this better than the Americans.

In fact the only strange thing was I found out the US lent the KMT government naval ships to symbolically reclaim SCS reefs after Japan was defeated. They could have held them for themselves and claimed them as US territory.

# ? Mar 8, 2024 12:31

post COVID: Mar 5, 2007; free college, free healthcare, free Shmurda

America defeated racism that day at the Laugh Factory

# ? Mar 8, 2024 14:11

mila kunis: Jun 10, 2011

skooma512 posted:

I was reading the Reuters story of the Tiktok ban vote today and one of the congressmen called China an adversary.

I'm still wondering why we just decided that they're definitely our enemy. They took over little specks of rock off their own shore. We still embargo Cuba because they violated the US sphere of influence generations ago, but Taiwan and unnamed sea mount tops are also American interests for some reason, at least Taiwan is somewhat comprehensible in that sense.

My theory is that the US would certainly like the world to remain unipolar, but also that a non-white country being the other pole is even less acceptable than usual. At least the Soviets were white.

The US is seemingly the only one making proclamations that it's going to be at war with China eventually. I posit it's for the same thing driving much of US history up to now: White supremacy. European powers competing with us is one thing, a non-white power? Completely unacceptable.

The legitimacy of western governments (and most governments) is generally founded on stability and prosperity. The people who point to the cold war and go 'scoreboard! we won!' generally do so on the presumption that communism "didn't work" and capitalism did. But the socialist bloc in europe achieved better living standards than the majority of the planet - except the rich west, whose relative prosperity was partially based on historical imperialist legacy and the exploitation of cheap labour and resource extraction from collaborative governments in the global south.

From their pov as long as china was a meek exporter country that was solely focused on delivering cheap treats to the west, all to the good. Trying to uplift their own citizens and create a domestic consumer class rich enough means they start keeping treats for themselves, competing for consumer goods and driving up the cost of said goods in the west. This is a huge no no as it completely threatens the prosperity of western citizens and the legitimacy of those states. It also means that all the raw materials being extracted across the world and feeding into china's industrial supply chains are no longer mostly with western consumption in mind, so resource extraction is now a competition rather than it all being part of the same system.

China has to be brought to heel.

# ? Mar 8, 2024 15:49

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

I find the timing of the Tiktok ban bill interesting. They almost did it under trump but halted it in last minute. Now they dig it out of nowhere. Why? maybe the Washington blob had planned it all along and can't trust Trump II to execute it.

People should keep an eyes on other Anglo countries bring up similar bans. If it's the case, then I think the 5 eye country are making assessment that more conflict with China are on the horizon (after the Ukraine war). Be it accurate assessment or not.

Also where are the IDF soldiers going to post their vertical formatted genocide videos?

stephenthinkpad has issued a correction as of 16:05 on Mar 8, 2024

# ? Mar 8, 2024 16:02

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

victoria nuland being out makes me think the faction that wants to go to war with china instead of russia is ascendant so yeah.

i thought the first tiktok hearings forced them to move servers to texas or something? i can't remember all the details.

# ? Mar 8, 2024 16:12

bedpan: Apr 23, 2008

crepeface posted:

victoria nuland being out makes me think the faction that wants to go to war with china instead of russia is ascendant so yeah.

i thought the first tiktok hearings forced them to move servers to texas or something? i can't remember all the details.

going to war with china was always the future. the only question was do we settle accounts with russia before, during, or after an engagement with China?

# ? Mar 8, 2024 18:18

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

bedpan posted:

going to war with china was always the future. the only question was do we settle accounts with russia before, during, or after an engagement with China?

Americas hosed
How to Overcome China�s Maritime Industrial Overmatch

www.usni.org - Thu, 07 Mar 2024 posted:

While the United States� shipbuilding and ship repair industries have foundered, China has made it an industrial priority. By the end of fiscal year 2028, the U.S. Navy will have 291 battle force ships, four less than the 295 it currently has. At the same time, the People�s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) is expected to reach 440 battle force ships, a growth of nearly 140 in a decade.Already outnumbered, the U.S. Navy will be unable to deploy many of its ships because of abysmal readiness rates.�

Currently, the United States can expect to prevail in a potential contested Taiwan scenario, but victory is not assured in the long run as the PLAN continues to grow. Without a major paradigm shift, the only way to counter this overwhelming mass is with more mass.�

#### A New Course

Money alone will not create the maritime industrial base the United States needs. Despite getting the funds for two Arleigh Burke�class destroyers a year, the United States has only been able to build one and a half a year on average. Going forward, the United States should consider two new strategies: the Chinese and the Norwegian. The strategies are not mutually exclusive, and the best results will be achieved if both are implemented; however, this might not be possible because of political and monetary constraints. The Chinese strategy would mirror China�s scrap-and-build subsidy used to ensure the health of its shipbuilding industry during the economic downturn of 2008. The Norwegian strategy would follow the Norwegian shipbuilding company Vard. Vard manufactures its hulls in Romania, where labor is cheap, and then outfits them in Norway, where it has the skilled labor to do this complicated work.�

#### The Chinese Strategy

The Chinese strategy focuses on a strong commercial shipbuilding sector to create the necessary infrastructure and supply chain for a robust military shipbuilding capability, both in a steady state and in a surge. In 1993, China�s market share of the world�s commercial shipbuilding was 3 percent. Today, China is building nearly half of the world�s commercial ships and has more than 55 percent of new orders. Conversely, when the United States was six ships shy of a 600�fleet Navy in 1987, the nation�s 69 shipyards had no commercial customers; they were utterly dependent on the Navy. Today, the United States has only four shipyards constructing large oceangoing commercial ships, and they account for only 0.35 percent of all new commercial ship construction. According to the 2023 IBIS World report, roughly one of every six renminbi China spends on shipbuilding is on ships ordered by the People�s Liberation Army Navy. In the United States, the numbers are nearly opposite; the military accounts for more than six of every seven dollars spent on shipbuilding and ship repair.�

The core element of the Chinese strategy is the scrap-and-build subsidy implemented following the 2008 financial crisis. Implemented in 2010, the subsidy provided funds to Chinese firms to upgrade their fleet at a significantly discounted cost. When China implemented the subsidy, the age of the Chinese commercial fleet was at or below the world�s average, between 10 and 25 years old, depending on ship type. Four years later, no ship type had an average age more than 10. In addition, modernizing led to a more reliable, fuel-efficient, and competitive fleet.

The United States should implement a similar scrap-and-build subsidy. In 2016, the average age of a U.S. Jones Act ship was 33, compared to a world average of 13. As of January 2022, the U.S. Jones Act fleet consisted of 99 ships. For about a fifth of the cost of the subsidy already provided to semiconductor manufacturers, the United States could subsidize the replacement of each ship in the Jones Act fleet by $100 million. For reference, the two Kanaloa-class vessels�the largest combination container/roll-on, roll-off ships ever built in the United States�cost Matson, Inc. $250 million apiece in 2020.�

In addition, this subsidy is an ideal candidate for Inflation Reduction Act funds, which set aside $370 billion for tax breaks and subsidies to efforts that cut U.S. greenhouse-gas emissions and boost green industries. Further incentives are possible through programs such as the Justice40 Initiative, which set aside about $40 billion for labor training and workforce development to mitigate climate change. More funds also are available through the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, which seeks to reduce carbon emissions and improve critical infrastructure. Turning over the Jones Act fleet would reduce greenhouse gas pollution and improve the Maritime Transportation System. Beyond creating the industrial base needed to build warships, a strong commercial fleet is also a national security interest.

A strong domestic shipbuilding capacity would ensure a robust U.S.-flagged commercial fleet. As described in the 1989 National Security Directive 28, U.S.-owned commercial ocean carriers are critical to the nation�s power projection during times of war. Further, a strong commercial shipbuilding industry would support the military shipbuilding industry in turn. The two industries tend to be cyclical; as one ebbs, the other can flow, helping stabilize the workforce. Commercial ship construction drives demand in the supply chain, increasing resiliency as more companies join the industry to meet the growing demand and decreasing the number of sole-source suppliers. Commercial shipbuilding is generally more competitive than government shipbuilding, which drives capital investments in productivity improvements. The more efficient a shipyard, the more profitable it is.�

The Chinese strategy comes with several risks and opportunities. In the near term, the increase in demand will mean commercial shipping will compete against military shipbuilding for labor, dock space, and critical components. Fortunately, the commercial shipbuilding standard is not as exacting as the military standard, allowing new workers to be trained faster. Commercial shipbuilding also does not have the same hiring restrictions as military shipbuilding does, which requires a labor force primarily composed of U.S. citizens. Although the number of major shipyards has diminished significantly since the end of World War II, the United States still has meaningful unused capacity. During interactions with shipbuilding and ship repair industry leaders across the nation, I was repeatedly told that shipyards are being underutilized both in terms of space (i.e., more ships can be built at once) and time (i.e., more shifts can be added to build ships faster). Almost every yard I visited is running a single work shift. Taking advantage of the looser labor constraints of commercial shipbuilding would make it easier for shipyards to add night and weekend shifts, potentially tripling output. Adding a night shift has the potential to impact worker safety. This risk could be mitigated by focusing on finishing or automated work at night. If labor is still a constraint, implementing the Norwegian strategy will help.

#### The Norwegian Strategy

The low-skill portion of shipbuilding is best done where labor is both cheap and plentiful. In Norway, where labor rates are some of the highest in the world, Vard outsources the manufacturing of its ship hulls to Romania, where labor rates were one-seventh of Norway�s in 2019. Once the hull and early outfitting are complete, the ship is towed to Norway for the final outfitting and finishing. The hull typically accounts for about 20 to 30 percent of the overall shipbuilding cost.

The United States can easily apply this strategy to its commercial and military shipbuilding industries. The benefits would be twofold. First, it would help alleviate the shipbuilding labor shortage as each ship would require less U.S. labor. Second, it would help reduce costs, allowing the Navy to buy more ships and build them faster.

Mexico is an ideal candidate for hull construction in the commercial sector. Its labor rates are favorable; as of January 2023, on average, a Mexican welder is one-third the cost per hour of a U.S. welder�$7.10 per hour versus $20.65.Further, Mexico has a strong shipbuilding capacity along the Gulf of Mexico and the hulls can easily be towed up the East Coast to either Newport News Shipbuilding or Philadelphia Shipyard. Off-shoring hull construction to Mexico does introduce risks to the supply chain; however, the risk is minimal because of the location and the strong relationship between the United States and Mexico.�

The construction of military hulls is more complicated. Although geographically close to China, Korea and Japan also are ideal locations to build U.S. warship hulls. Both countries have built warships using an Arleigh Burke�class destroyer parent design. Both have state-of-the-art shipbuilding industries with the capacity and knowledge to build and deliver the hulls on schedule. Unfortunately, getting approval to build hulls in these countries will not be easy.

The Jones Act constrains commercial shipbuilding and Title 10 U.S. Code �7309: Construction of Vessels in Foreign Shipyards: Prohibition, limits overseas military ship construction. However, a large shipbuilding subsidy, like the proposed scrap-and-build subsidy, could be contingent on repealing certain aspects of the Jones Act. This could make the entrenched commercial shipbuilders amicable to allow the importation of ship hulls. Currently, the military shipbuilding industry is unable to meet existing demand. Exporting hull construction would free labor to increase throughput, reducing overall construction time, enabling the shipyards to produce more ships faster, and improving profits. Title 10 U.S. Code �8679 states, �The President may authorize exceptions to the prohibition in subsection (a) when the President determines that it is in the national security interest of the United States to do so.� If China truly poses an existential threat to U.S. hegemony, and importing hulls results in military prime contractors making more money, then it makes sense for an exception for importing warship hulls.�

#### Looking Forward

The lack of shipbuilding and ship repair capacity presents a dilemma. If the Navy prioritizes building new ships, it will theoretically have the capacity it needs in the future, but risks lacking the necessary readiness to oppose China now. If the Navy prioritizes ship repair, it is eating the seed corn; having the fleet it needs now at the cost of future capability. Without implementing either of the proposed strategies, the United States will not have the industrial capacity to achieve any of the three courses of action in the FY24 30�year shipbuilding plan�and ending any hope of fielding a 355�ship Navy. With China�s massive quantity advantage, the United States will be hard-pressed to defend the second island chain in a future conflict.

# ? Mar 8, 2024 18:21

Soapy_Bumslap: Jun 19, 2013; We're gonna need a bigger chode; Grimey Drawer

bedpan posted:

going to war with china was always the future. the only question was do we settle accounts with russia before, during, or after an engagement with China?

Squaring with Russia after China means surviving a conflict with China which lol

# ? Mar 8, 2024 19:05

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

You know its going to be everything everywhere all at once.

# ? Mar 8, 2024 19:09

Hedenius: Aug 23, 2007

https://x.com/vp44/status/574653070220492800?s=46&t=mzWS2vgSInnU9jlt8C3n_Q

# ? Mar 8, 2024 19:12

Maximo Roboto: Feb 4, 2012

https://twitter.com/ebeggin1/status/1766205788979154972

# ? Mar 8, 2024 23:52

Eminent DNS: May 28, 2007

Maximo Roboto posted:

https://twitter.com/ebeggin1/status/1766205788979154972

Obviously woke panic poo poo is incredibly stupid, but I have been thinking lately about how solving the kinds of dumb poo poo that happens via the Internet in our stupid society (nonstop phone scams, antivax bullshit) really necessarily requires individual countries to have some kind of sovereignty over the Internet as it interacts with their population

# ? Mar 9, 2024 00:36

Some Guy TT: Aug 30, 2011

Maximo Roboto posted:

https://twitter.com/ebeggin1/status/1766205788979154972

judith butler writes a lot about this in her new book thats coming out soon

well not the chinese firewall part i mean the part of everyone having the same weirdly stupid arguments about gender ideology that have little if any obvious relevance to the real world

# ? Mar 9, 2024 00:54

Honky Mao: Dec 26, 2012

China? Good? You're telling me this now for the first time

# ? Mar 9, 2024 01:07

Halser: Aug 24, 2016

Maximo Roboto posted:

https://twitter.com/ebeggin1/status/1766205788979154972

Brazil basically put Nick Fuentes in the chamber of deputies

# ? Mar 9, 2024 01:29

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

https://twitter.com/SpiritofLenin/status/1766135566624510268?t=dH2rgTlSHVaSpaRlS5BPig&s=19

# ? Mar 9, 2024 03:20

this allusion meant: Apr 9, 2006

mila kunis posted:

The legitimacy of western governments (and most governments) is generally founded on stability and prosperity. The people who point to the cold war and go 'scoreboard! we won!' generally do so on the presumption that communism "didn't work" and capitalism did. But the socialist bloc in europe achieved better living standards than the majority of the planet - except the rich west, whose relative prosperity was partially based on historical imperialist legacy and the exploitation of cheap labour and resource extraction from collaborative governments in the global south.

From their pov as long as china was a meek exporter country that was solely focused on delivering cheap treats to the west, all to the good. Trying to uplift their own citizens and create a domestic consumer class rich enough means they start keeping treats for themselves, competing for consumer goods and driving up the cost of said goods in the west. This is a huge no no as it completely threatens the prosperity of western citizens and the legitimacy of those states. It also means that all the raw materials being extracted across the world and feeding into china's industrial supply chains are no longer mostly with western consumption in mind, so resource extraction is now a competition rather than it all being part of the same system.

China has to be brought to heel.

i would say that there's like 1 in 10 western china carers who are thinking like this; when combined with the "we thought the market sector would make them want to ~~sell the country~~liberalize and ~~support western imperialist designs~~democratize" crowd, there's a coherent worldview, but only a few people in the sphere actually paid enough attention to china in the past to require a coherent reckoning with their thinking in that past. for the most part the details about competition for treats or resources or whatever are subsumed into an abstract "growing china threat" that is just a word cloud of thought-terminating cliches

related to the great firewall tweet, my view is that the liberal-electoral system of governance produces, as a function of the rules of its internal competition, tremendous incentives to fabricate insane bigoted bullshit, which was a bit difficult to do without getting called out in the past (and therefore only worked because of how strong the incentives were to partake in the really mainstream bigotries that held together the colonial systems of the early liberal-electoral states) but now can be very micro-targeted and thereby fly under the radar. this is written off as a generic problem of "demagoguery" that could hypothetically exist under any system, but what we have seen is that this has strongly affected all the liberal-electoral states in recent years, whereas attempts to narratively manufacture a reactionary, strongly patriarchal, han nationalist turn have fallen flat as various particular upsetting incidents or local policies prove to not represent a repeating pattern or a national push, but controversial issues within the society that get pushback as much as support (despite the objective conditions of a massive male surplus, high inequality, and rapid rise in global power representing obviously strong conditions for a far-right turn if that was at all desired). the correct frame to understand this is not that the chinese censors are pushing back what would otherwise be a surging tide of reaction, but rather that they are able to remove the financial incentives to produce huge volumes of reactionary content that exist in liberal-electoral states where capitalists have total social control and are able to freely fund this bullshit through their influence networks

the anti-china turn is part of the general tendency towards scapegoating and opportunistic bigotry that is inherent in the liberal-electoral model, and which have only really ever been suppressed by forces outside the formal political structure, i.e. labor and social movements incl. communism. the fact that china also represents the main alternative to living with the machine that pays us to slander our neighbors for someone's political gain is a coincidence in that the causal connection is somewhat indirect

this allusion meant has issued a correction as of 03:36 on Mar 9, 2024

# ? Mar 9, 2024 03:34

tristeham: Jul 31, 2022

crepeface posted:

https://twitter.com/SpiritofLenin/status/1766135566624510268?t=dH2rgTlSHVaSpaRlS5BPig&s=19

# ? Mar 9, 2024 03:47

this allusion meant: Apr 9, 2006

in poor and/or small countries, liberal-electoral systems often turn into some form of ethnic parties or regional parties in place of the relatively more ideological parties of the rich countries (tho this is somewhat receding as more and more cultural features within these countries become coded with partisan alignment). this is often argued by western political science to indicate that those societies are underdeveloped in various ways involving civil society and general education about politically relevant matters. however, another interpretation might be that this is the natural state of liberal-electoral governance in states where sovereignty is too limited for class struggle to function, e.g. in some countries if you vote for redistribution the bond markets will raise your government's costs of borrowing so much that you will become just as poor anyway, so if you don't want to struggle for decades to totally reshape things and get out from dependency the best you can do is get a guy who looks or talks like you. the fact that ideological parties sort of persist in europe is just due to leftover momentum from the forceful absorption of the class struggle into the electoral system in the 20th century. unless the latin american left can figure out some novel pathways through their current impasses, the future of what the westerners call democracy is the woke versus chud war

# ? Mar 9, 2024 03:52

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

lol wasn't the great firewall only put up as a response to Facebook etc refusing to comply with government orders to give up data that they had on ETIM terrorist attack planning?

# ? Mar 9, 2024 04:17

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

It's completely incomprehensible to liberals that you can defuse reactionary anger and violence simply by removing the material incentives to do so and creating a sufficient standard of comfort and stability to people where people feel like they live in a society that values them. But that's not really news.

# ? Mar 9, 2024 04:52

Eminent DNS: May 28, 2007

crepeface posted:

lol wasn't the great firewall only put up as a response to Facebook etc refusing to comply with government orders to give up data that they had on ETIM terrorist attack planning?

I think it was way before that.

Like I remember a couple years before that, Google had been trying to run the search market in China and started to develop a filtered search to be compatible with great firewall policy and they got so much pushback in the US (both government and public opinion) that they basically pulled out entirely, which then got them in the doghouse with the CPC and leads to today. Android has always been big there tho.

But that whole dynamic only played out because the great firewall was already in place and a mature institution by then. I don't know if the Internet in China was ever totally exposed to the rest of the Internet since its inception. I'd be curious tho

# ? Mar 9, 2024 05:10

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

are there any other channels that cover the two sessions?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42fx4aYv5SA

some interesting stuff about debt and funds. sounds like they're going with more centralisation of the budget and they're aiming for 5% growth
proposal to increase vacation days with a side effect of boosting internal tourism

# ? Mar 9, 2024 06:25

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

mawarannahr posted:

Americas hosed
How to Overcome China�s Maritime Industrial Overmatch

lol that the "Norwegian Model" starts with "here how you can avoid paying labour"

# ? Mar 9, 2024 06:25

Mandel Brotset: Jan 1, 2024

crepeface posted:

are there any other channels that cover the two sessions?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42fx4aYv5SA

some interesting stuff about debt and funds. sounds like they're going with more centralisation of the budget and they're aiming for 5% growth

proposal to increase vacation days with a side effect of boosting internal tourism

this could be us

# ? Mar 9, 2024 06:32

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

When you get to your stop, you get off

https://twitter.com/GlobeEyeNews/status/1766193183929880903?t=8woUnHfz6uksfT4yeckQkg&s=19

# ? Mar 9, 2024 08:10

crepeface: Nov 5, 2004; r*p*f*c*

he was always going to leave after john dolan wrote that tell-all book about his pizza

# ? Mar 9, 2024 08:22

Cerebral Bore: Apr 21, 2010; Fun Shoe

erdogone

# ? Mar 9, 2024 11:21

stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

Eminent DNS posted:

.

But that whole dynamic only played out because the great firewall was already in place and a mature institution by then. I don't know if the Internet in China was ever totally exposed to the rest of the Internet since its inception. I'd be curious tho

I don't think there was a big of a difference. Chinese internet always had the language being the high barrier of entry, which automatically filtered out most of the non Chines speakers.

I am trying to remember the in sina bbs and qq chatroom days of early 00s, I don't think there was much of a GFW.

One big mile stone was when China did away with anonymous prepaid sim card and switched to id registered sim card and required phone number on almost all app services. That pretty much filtered out the anonymous web. This was a GFW like policy but not part of GFW.

# ? Mar 9, 2024 12:05

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# ? May 27, 2024 10:05

tristeham: Jul 31, 2022

gradenko_2000 posted:

When you get to your stop, you get off

https://twitter.com/GlobeEyeNews/status/1766193183929880903?t=8woUnHfz6uksfT4yeckQkg&s=19

john biden could learn a thing or two from him.

# ? Mar 9, 2024 13:22

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

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