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Vampire Panties posted:they send someone who is smart/educated enough to pull it off, but poor enough that nobody will care if they die basically how I paid for college
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Mar 10, 2024 18:45
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redshirt posted:Most/all astronauts are middle class They are also rigorously trained and survive in orbit at significant expense that does not work at a scale even remotely close to the barest minimum necessary for "colonization." We will run out of time and resources before that can possibly change. Anyone espousing the sustainability of a space colonization effort are not looking at things from the actual on-the-ground realities of what your dreams would require.
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Mar 10, 2024 19:06
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Vampire Panties posted:How did Christopher Columbus get to the New World? Ferdinand and Isabella made a longshot bet because they would get loving paid if it worked out, plus they could flip the bird to John II of Portugal, their richass neighbor. Right, but the technology to put people on boats already existed. Land colonization had already been done. Columbus' funtime slave adventures were not completely unheard of in their own time. The idea of a meaningful number of people in space isn't the same problem as "just build a bigger boat." Once they arrived, yes, conditions would be horrendous, but they were also comparable to expeditions that preceded them.
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Mar 10, 2024 19:09
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Vampire Panties posted:How did Christopher Columbus get to the New World? Ferdinand and Isabella made a longshot bet because they would get loving paid if it worked out, plus they could flip the bird to John II of Portugal, their richass neighbor. Christopher Columbus is the one who came to Ferdinand and Isabella tho. They didn't come up with the idea then assign him and send him off, figuring if he dies eh NBD - he came to them pitching his voyage and they decided his sales pitch was good enough they bought in. They specifically didn't want him to die because welp there goes the riches he said only he could find. Unfortunately he couldn't find the gold so he then pitched to them the idea of chattel slavery as the riches he promised, and they went with it. That whole things was Columbus scamming venture capital out of Ferdinand and Isabella for his own goals (find a way to get enough money to retake Jerusalem for the Catholics before what he thought was the looming Apocalypse).
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Mar 10, 2024 19:10
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Time_pants posted:Right, but the technology to put people on boats already existed. Land colonization had already been done. Columbus' funtime slave adventures were not completely unheard of in their own time. The idea of a meaningful number of people in space isn't the same problem as "just build a bigger boat." Whats your argument here? Nobody is saying that Columbus's journey was a technical marvel*, or that he was a good person (he wasnt). The greeks (and a lot of other cultures) knew the world was round a thousand years before Columbus was born. Vikings had been to North America 300 years before Columbus convinced the Spanish royalty that there was a faster/cheaper way to sail to India (which would also cut out the Portuguese stranglehold). Colonizing the new world was never about needing a bigger boat, it was about spending the money to send enough boats and people to build a colony with the express purpose of finding riches and sending them back home. Much like the vikings and vinland, we've gone to space a tiny bit but haven't really figured out how to exploit it yet. Capitalism will do that, whether its helium-3 on the moon or zero-g manufacturing or an iridium asteroid the size of Dallas. Once there's a genuinely valuable reason to go, rich people will be funding space expeditions instantly - and there's no loving way they're going up there to do the work. *being stuck at sea for 8+ weeks, surrounded by saltwater and unable to swim, with zero medical care and only a vague understanding of nutrition is not so much different than shoving a buncha people into pressurized aluminum cans while they mine moon ore or whatever. Vampire Panties fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Mar 10, 2024 |
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Mar 10, 2024 19:28
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Thread took a weird turn.
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Mar 10, 2024 19:40
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posting a lot of ambiguity and thoughts and opinions rather than truths folks dont want to hear and aint ready for
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Mar 10, 2024 19:41
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Vampire Panties posted:Whats your argument here? Nobody is saying that Columbus's journey was a technical marvel*, or that he was a good person (he wasnt). The greeks (and a lot of other cultures) knew the world was round a thousand years before Columbus was born. Vikings had been to North America 300 years before Columbus convinced the Spanish royalty that there was a faster/cheaper way to sail to India (which would also cut out the Portuguese stranglehold). Colonizing the new world was never about needing a bigger boat, it was about spending the money to send enough boats and people to build a colony with the express purpose of finding riches and sending them back home. It's really sweet that you think this. Genuinely, I hope you get to see it realized.
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Mar 10, 2024 19:48
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:posting a lot of ambiguity and thoughts and opinions rather than truths folks dont want to hear and aint ready for Yup. Let’s keep with the path
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Mar 10, 2024 19:50
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God exists and you are loved. You don’t have to think bad thoughts about yourself.
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Mar 10, 2024 19:51
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If Joseph and Mary were married and Jesus truly is the son of god, then Jesus is actually a bastard. Also, if Mary cheated on Joseph with god, then she's an adulteress and probably should have gotten stoned to death (not that I care, but doesn't the bible say something about that?). Or, if it wasn't consensual then god is a rapist.
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Mar 10, 2024 20:22
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There are material limits to exponential growth. Progression and proliferation of technological marvels will soon be increasingly difficult and inequitable, until we are literally going backwards. An increasingly destabilized and desperate world will not allow the industrialized global supply chain to support the things we now enjoy. We aren't colonizing space. It will (relatively) soon be out of reach.
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Mar 10, 2024 20:28
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Vampire Panties posted:Whats your argument here? Nobody is saying that Columbus's journey was a technical marvel*, or that he was a good person (he wasnt). The greeks (and a lot of other cultures) knew the world was round a thousand years before Columbus was born. Vikings had been to North America 300 years before Columbus convinced the Spanish royalty that there was a faster/cheaper way to sail to India (which would also cut out the Portuguese stranglehold). Colonizing the new world was never about needing a bigger boat, it was about spending the money to send enough boats and people to build a colony with the express purpose of finding riches and sending them back home. The argument, I think, is that living in space will never be sustainable. It's never going to be an "escape" from the same dependencies and needs as the rest of us still down the well. There's a large upfront cost to move some settlers across the ocean, in travel and initial supplies, but after a few years they'll be more or less good on their own, growing their own food and whatnot. Anyone who goes to live in space is going to need constant fresh supplies, not just food but water and air too, the cost will be massive and unending. Maybe we'll find something in space to offset the cost and we'll send some poor miserable bastards up there to harvest it, but sending a few workers to live in little bubbles is not the same as colonization. Not anymore than we've "colonized" the ocean because we built an oil rig. Anyone who goes to live in space will be just as dependent on earth based resources as the rest of us, and will suffer and die just like the rest of us if there's an ecological collapse.
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Mar 10, 2024 20:33
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I find it arrogant to think that just because we don't have the means, knowledge or ability to live/work/play in space on any scale right now, that we can't or won't ever in the future. The first flight from London to France was just over 100 years ago. 50 years later we had people on the dang moon using less computing power than is offered by a scientific calculator. To pretend we know what space technology and the capabilities of it will look like in 50, 100, 500, 5000 years would be incredibly stupid.
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Mar 10, 2024 20:43
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counterfeitsaint posted:The argument, I think, is that living in space will never be sustainable. It's never going to be an "escape" from the same dependencies and needs as the rest of us still down the well. There's a large upfront cost to move some settlers across the ocean, in travel and initial supplies, but after a few years they'll be more or less good on their own, growing their own food and whatnot. Anyone who goes to live in space is going to need constant fresh supplies, not just food but water and air too, the cost will be massive and unending. Maybe we'll find something in space to offset the cost and we'll send some poor miserable bastards up there to harvest it, but sending a few workers to live in little bubbles is not the same as colonization. Not anymore than we've "colonized" the ocean because we built an oil rig. "Never" is a big word, but it will be very hard. We'd need to conquer several big problems first. But it's all possible. But building a self-sufficient space colony? Super hard to near impossible in the foreseeable future. I mean, just consider the issues in trying to grow rice in space or on the surface of the Moon or Mars. One example among so many. So, the truth is, without some big tech breakthrough or an incredible commitment to spending MASSIVE amounts of money, we'll just dabble in space for a long time.
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Mar 10, 2024 20:46
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this conversation would be epic in the gbs space thread!!!
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Mar 10, 2024 20:46
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Maudib Arakkis posted:God exists and you are loved. You don’t have to think bad thoughts about yourself. I thought this was the hard truths thread, not the supposition and imagination thread
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Mar 10, 2024 20:49
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Chief McHeath posted:I find it arrogant to think that just because we don't have the means, knowledge or ability to live/work/play in space on any scale right now, that we can't or won't ever in the future. The first flight from London to France was just over 100 years ago. 50 years later we had people on the dang moon. To pretend we know what space technology and the capabilities of it will look like in 50, 100, 500, 5000 years would be incredibly stupid.  Just in case you're not trolling...the idea that "humans have always progressed and colonized and thus always will" can't escape the material reality of the world we built that allowed these amazing and recent innovations. It's like "line will go up forever because it always has". Funny you used the terms arrogant and stupid.
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Mar 10, 2024 20:50
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redshirt posted:"Never" is a big word, but it will be very hard. We'd need to conquer several big problems first. But it's all possible. Social problems also need to be resolved in some way before this can be realistic imo
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Mar 10, 2024 21:08
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BRJurgis posted:
So we’ve reached the pinnacle of technology and understanding and there are no breakthroughs or discoveries to be made, ever, got it.
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Mar 10, 2024 21:41
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Maudib Arakkis posted:God exists and you are loved. You don’t have to think bad thoughts about yourself. Counterpoint: God doesn't exist and it's entirely possible that no one loves you. Definitely agree with the second part though
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Mar 10, 2024 21:43
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Human progress is not guaranteed. I think many feel that it is, baked into our bones from day one.
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Mar 10, 2024 22:05
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The dark side of the moon is dark because the moon, like earth, is a flat disc
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Mar 10, 2024 22:06
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Car Hater posted:The dark side of the moon is dark because the moon, like earth, is a flat disc Its all dark.
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Mar 10, 2024 22:07
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Tides are caused by the Moon (and to a much lesser degree, the Sun, and thus also, to an even much much lesser degree Jupiter, Mars, Venus, Mercury, Asteroids maybe?), and we are made of about 70% water. So is it so absurd to consider the Moon has SOME influence on people? And the Sun, Jupiter, Mars..... Maybe also gravity waves.
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Mar 10, 2024 22:11
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hot cocoa on the couch posted:not anymore its not lol Fast food is still the cheapest option when you consider that it's prorated to unit price, and even at an obscene markup for profit, that's still cheaper than investing in bulk-buying and not exchanging time for pay. Plus, the time spent not working goes into work-related or compounded matters, like waiting at a free clinic(because you're so unhealthy from all the fast food you eat), or doing laundry so you don't get fired for a "messy appearance". wesleywillis posted:If Joseph and Mary were married and Jesus truly is the son of god, then Jesus is actually a bastard. The same religious people who espouse the Immaculate Conception also conveniently overlook it as a fail case for "abstinence only 100% effective" rhetoric; but if you didn't believe, then it would actually be true.
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Mar 10, 2024 22:12
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Mistle posted:Fast food is still the cheapest option when you consider that it's prorated to unit price, and even at an obscene markup for profit, that's still cheaper than investing in bulk-buying and not exchanging time for pay. Plus, the time spent not working goes into work-related or compounded matters, like waiting at a free clinic(because you're so unhealthy from all the fast food you eat), or doing laundry so you don't get fired for a "messy appearance". Yep a mcdouble is 22 grams of animal protein and 400 calories for under $3. McDonalds is completely vertically integrated and it's hard to beat that price. Once you get into premium burgers or sides your money gets you a lot less.
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Mar 10, 2024 22:27
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Maudib Arakkis posted:God exists and you are loved. You don’t have to think bad thoughts about yourself. Yeah, God's already doing that for you. If he exists, that bastard loves like an abusive stepdad, doing hosed up poo poo to you to 'build character '. I don't want him. StrangersInTheNight fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Mar 10, 2024 |
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Mar 10, 2024 22:39
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redshirt posted:Tides are caused by the Moon (and to a much lesser degree, the Sun, and thus also, to an even much much lesser degree Jupiter, Mars, Venus, Mercury, Asteroids maybe?), and we are made of about 70% water. So is it so absurd to consider the Moon has SOME influence on people? And the Sun, Jupiter, Mars..... Sure, technically gravity has no range limit, so the other planets are, in a strict sense, exhibiting some gravitational pull on your body. But they're so far away, your car and even your next door neighbor have a stronger gravitational pull on you than any other planet.
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Mar 10, 2024 23:39
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counterfeitsaint posted:Sure, technically gravity has no range limit, so the other planets are, in a strict sense, exhibiting some gravitational pull on your body. But they're so far away, your car and even your next door neighbor have a stronger gravitational pull on you than any other planet. My neighbor jason? oh heck no
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Mar 10, 2024 23:41
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counterfeitsaint posted:Sure, technically gravity has no range limit, so the other planets are, in a strict sense, exhibiting some gravitational pull on your body. But they're so far away, your car and even your next door neighbor have a stronger gravitational pull on you than any other planet. Calling in sick on Monday: Prius is in retrograde and Moe is waxing gibbos. Not a good day for an Aquafina.
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Mar 11, 2024 00:21
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Ketchup isn't as bad as the meme world has made it out to be. I go through like 30mL of ketchup every two years but come on it's not the soul-crushing poison that drama queens make it out to be. e: that is my dumbass "truth" for today. Catastrophe fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Mar 11, 2024 |
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Mar 11, 2024 00:31
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cumpantry posted:in english, egghead If you move really quickly away from a source of gravity and then return your watch will be off mark by a fraction of one millionth of a second. Welcome to the future!
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Mar 11, 2024 02:03
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counterfeitsaint posted:Sure, technically gravity has no range limit, so the other planets are, in a strict sense, exhibiting some gravitational pull on your body. But they're so far away, your car and even your next door neighbor have a stronger gravitational pull on you than any other planet. Well it would be the Moon which would have the primary influence. Lunacy, so to speak.
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Mar 11, 2024 02:04
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Water is a molten rock, we just happen to live on a lava planet
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Mar 11, 2024 02:24
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we are the Water Planet trope from science fiction
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Mar 11, 2024 02:35
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ProperCauldron posted:we are the Water Planet trope from science fiction Man, you if you think we are now, just wait!
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Mar 11, 2024 02:42
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redshirt posted:Well it would be the Moon which would have the primary influence. Lunacy, so to speak. Indirectly. Maybe. If you squint. For most of human existence, the phase of the moon had a major impact on how active humans can be at night, cause sometimes you can see and sometimes you just can't. We already know the human body tends to operate in cycles, one of which is already pretty lined up with lunar phases. It's not impossible to think that some people have, on a hormonal or chemical level, adapted to a cycle synched up with the phases of the moon. Or it could just be that when the full moon is bright its easier to do crime or party or do anything at all at night that people would call crazy. Either way, it's humans adapting to how well lit their environment is, just like they're active when the sun is visible, not being affected by tidal forces or gravity waves or because we have water in our bodies or whatever.
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Mar 11, 2024 04:56
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This has become some sorta space thread
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Mar 11, 2024 05:07
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food is medicine
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Mar 11, 2024 14:31
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