[Ukraine] EU: Nice minister, shame if something were to happen...

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] EU: Nice minister, shame if something were to happen...

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Total:	404 votes

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stephenthinkpad: Jan 2, 2020

Did Stalin relocate the Baltic people to fat east? He should have.

# ? Mar 10, 2024 17:37

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# ? May 24, 2024 23:03

Son of Thunderbeast: Sep 21, 2002

stephenthinkpad posted:

fat east

# ? Mar 10, 2024 17:38

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

I think there was one of those autonomous Oblasts, like the Jewish Autonomous Oblast, but the Baltic states were evacuated fairly quickly in June 1941, and after liberation in 1944-45, the Soviets actually had a pretty light touch. If I recall NATO intelligence was always infiltrating people across the Baltic from "neutral" Finland and Sweden, so maybe more diligent internal security would have been a good thing.

# ? Mar 10, 2024 17:40

my bony fealty: Oct 1, 2008

the fat east and the skinny west

# ? Mar 10, 2024 17:41

fanfic insert: Nov 4, 2009

it used to be the fat west but then stalin ate all the grain and it became the fat east

# ? Mar 10, 2024 17:43

V. Illych L.: Apr 11, 2008; ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

I think there was one of those autonomous Oblasts, like the Jewish Autonomous Oblast, but the Baltic states were evacuated fairly quickly in June 1941, and after liberation in 1944-45, the Soviets actually had a pretty light touch. If I recall NATO intelligence was always infiltrating people across the Baltic from "neutral" Finland and Sweden, so maybe more diligent internal security would have been a good thing.

i read a book about US/norwegian bilateral intelligence relations recently-ish and there are several documented instances of NATO cross-border operations (sometimes involving finland) killing soviet soldiers on soviet soil. the level of provocation was pretty extreme

# ? Mar 10, 2024 17:43

my bony fealty: Oct 1, 2008

fanfic insert posted:

it used to be the fat west but then stalin ate all the grain and it became the fat east

carbs'll get ya like that

# ? Mar 10, 2024 17:46

SIGSEGV: Nov 4, 2010

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

This is the same problem as Ukraine where all of the Cold War writers in exile, and the Applebaums and Snyders since 1991 give the impression that the people's loyalties lay with the SS and ~~einsatzgruppen~~ patriotic militias, but certainly many of them did fight fascism. I believe the Estonians were also the rescuers of their Jews, though as has been mentioned, it's because they fled to Leningrad.

I keep saying this but someone should write a history of the co-belligerent forces in Italy, Bulgaria, and Romania. I think maybe some Hungarians fought against the Germans in the last weeks of the war. Finland, I feel like a lot of their so-called resistance is post-war propaganda but I genuinely know next to nothing.

ee: and the degree to which these states saved their Jews, deported Jews in occupied territory, and then collaborated with the Germans after pro-German coups to deport their Jews is also probably worth study. There's a lot of post war rear end covering there too.

There's a difference compared to Ukraine which is that the Baltics got forcibly integrated in the USSR a year before the Germans started rolling around, so there was less ideological opposition from the get go.

However they were so loving awful that it soon starting springing up. There's also the fact that the Soviets tried to evacuate a lot of industry and people from the Baltics as well, a couple of Dunkirks happens out there except a lot were loaded only with civilians. Well, not the first time that never stopped anybody.

# ? Mar 10, 2024 18:20

Ferdinand Bardamu: Apr 30, 2013

https://twitter.com/EgorKotkin/status/1738887585106157968

# ? Mar 10, 2024 18:27

Zerg Mans: Oct 19, 2006

Hopefully this war will end with Ukrainian sovereignty in tact over all its legal borders, and safe from Russias unprovoked attack

# ? Mar 10, 2024 18:32

Lostconfused: Oct 1, 2008

Zegermans at it again.

# ? Mar 10, 2024 18:34

speng31b: May 8, 2010

Lostconfused posted:

Zegermans at it again.

# ? Mar 10, 2024 18:39

my bony fealty: Oct 1, 2008

Zerg Mans posted:

Hopefully this war will end with Ukrainian sovereignty in tact over all its legal borders, and safe from Russias unprovoked attack

Agreed; Ukraine should receive full sovereignty over the entirety of its territory before Russia started interfering in its borders. Something like this -

# ? Mar 10, 2024 18:41

DJJIB-DJDCT: Feb 1, 2024

Ferdinand Bardamu posted:

https://twitter.com/EgorKotkin/status/1738887585106157968

Hits too close to home. You have to move heaven and hell for a fellowship that pays like $5000 / mo with $250 / mo for books.

# ? Mar 10, 2024 18:54

SIGSEGV: Nov 4, 2010

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

Hits too close to home. You have to move heaven and hell for a fellowship that pays like $5000 / mo with $250 / mo for books.

They let you have a whole book from a university press without expecting you to take up prostitution? That's weirdly generous, maybe if only from a list of authors chosen by the High Elders of the Ford-Shnapps Institute for Race Science.

# ? Mar 10, 2024 19:16

Zerg Mans: Oct 19, 2006

my bony fealty posted:

Agreed; Ukraine should receive full sovereignty over the entirety of its territory before Russia started interfering in its borders. Something like this -

I agree, everything in the picture

# ? Mar 10, 2024 19:16

mags: May 30, 2008; I am a congenital optimist.

Sancho Banana posted:

https://twitter.com/RichRaho/status/1766524272996987145?s=19

Another Francis W

Wondering what the Pope thinks a Russian victory would look like? Just Putin giving a speech and changing flags on government buildings, or has he actually put in some effort to see that an actual genocide is on the table?

# ? Mar 10, 2024 19:33

Egg Moron: Jul 21, 2003; the dreams of the delighting void

i also agree with the picture of the map

# ? Mar 10, 2024 19:34

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

Hits too close to home. You have to move heaven and hell for a fellowship that pays like $5000 / mo with $250 / mo for books.

I felt this

# ? Mar 10, 2024 19:44

Nix Panicus: Feb 25, 2007

mags posted:

Wondering what the Pope thinks a Russian victory would look like? Just Putin giving a speech and changing flags on government buildings, or has he actually put in some effort to see that an actual genocide is on the table?

Zelensky is currently doing his best to ensure a genocide by feeding soldiers into a wood chipper for a war they can't win, so Putin winning would be a strong anti-genocide move

Zerg Mans posted:

Hopefully this war will end with Ukrainian sovereignty in tact over all its legal borders, and safe from Russias unprovoked attack

Ukraine should lose sovereignty over all the areas disenfranchised by the 2014 coup

# ? Mar 10, 2024 19:49

my bony fealty: Oct 1, 2008

Zerg Mans posted:

I agree, everything in the picture

is not sovereign Ukranian territory, other than the orange bit, correct

# ? Mar 10, 2024 19:52

Delta-Wye: Sep 29, 2005

DJJIB-DJDCT posted:

e: One of the Baltic states contributed greatly to the Red Army and fought in the campaigns of 1945, I think it was Estonia?

it's true, the propaganda could reach them

Weka posted:

There's plenty of things you can criticize Estonia over but they had a literacy rate of 90% by the twenties, pretty remarkable really given they had a 75% rural population of mostly peasant farmers.

# ? Mar 10, 2024 20:57

mycomancy: Oct 16, 2016

Sancho Banana posted:

https://twitter.com/RichRaho/status/1766524272996987145?s=19

Another Francis W

FF alt detected

# ? Mar 10, 2024 21:07

Nonsense: Jan 26, 2007

zegermans the orc slayer

# ? Mar 10, 2024 21:26

sleep with the vicious: Apr 2, 2010

The pope must be on tiktok because it sounds like russian propaganda has got to him too :/

# ? Mar 10, 2024 21:35

Phigs: Jan 23, 2019

my bony fealty posted:

Agreed; Ukraine should receive full sovereignty over the entirety of its territory before Russia started interfering in its borders. Something like this -

Putin: "If you're not my friend anymore you don't get to play with my stuff anymore either."

# ? Mar 10, 2024 21:37

speng31b: May 8, 2010

mycomancy posted:

FF alt detected

tahts not an alt its a main

# ? Mar 10, 2024 21:39

Weka: May 5, 2019; That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

lobster shirt posted:

there were barely any jews in estonia because it was outside the pale of settlement, unlike latvia and lithiania

I think it is the other way around. It was outside the pale because there were barely any Jews there. The pale was created in response to Russian westward expansion meaning there were suddenly a bunch more Jews inside of its territory. The populous, northern coastal parts of modern Estonia were never really part of Lithuania or the PLC, which had a history of Jewish settlement over a millenia long.

Livonia, a province of the PLC, is coloured dark grey, over modern Estonia and Latvia. Swedish Estonia is coloured green.

SIGSEGV posted:

I was speaking of the population available in place, when the Germans declare a place judenrein, and they did, they don't have the stats regarding how many got railed to safety by the USSR, they just go by what they can find on site.

I understand the Germans kept pretty good records, so you can just subtract their figures from the prewar Jewish population. In this case the reports of Franz Stahlecker, commander of Einsatzgruppe A (amongst other formations), which detail the number of Jews they killed, a few dozen less than 1000, which aligns with all the contemporary estimates I have seen.

mila kunis posted:

Yeah they just brought in tens of thousands of jews from other countries to multiple concentration camps in Estonia, weird that there was no shortage of collaborators to murder them. what's with the balt simping, are you one

No webbed toes here, a feature of primarily Finnic (not Balt!) peoples such as Estonians. I just think it is important to make accurate criticisms and as far as I am aware the Estonian national movement in the 19th century was pretty progressive and humanist in character.
As far as Estonian collaboration goes, it is true they were a European nation occupied by the Germans. Singling them out beyond their possession of the natural dog like nature of Europe's inhabitants seems to lack a basis in material facts. Pretty sure there was a lower rate of direct collaboration like serving in military or police formations than that of Russians.

# ? Mar 10, 2024 21:41

1stGear: Jan 16, 2010; Here's to the new us.

mycomancy posted:

FF alt detected

posting ex cathedra

# ? Mar 10, 2024 21:43

Weka: May 5, 2019; That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

sleep with the vicious posted:

The pope must be on tiktok because it sounds like russian propaganda has got to him too :/

Maybe they post in this thread

# ? Mar 10, 2024 21:44

speng31b: May 8, 2010

Weka posted:

Maybe they post in this thread

going to probe you for doxxing the pope

# ? Mar 10, 2024 21:45

Sancho Banana: Aug 4, 2023; Not to be confused with meat.

Zerg Mans posted:

I agree, everything in the picture

Kremlin bot detected, the Kyian empire once reigned over its rightful territory from Kazan to Lisbon before tsar Stalutlin the IV took it all away, God willing the 2025 counteroffensive will reclaim all lost Ukrainian territory

# ? Mar 10, 2024 21:47

Zerg Mans: Oct 19, 2006

Nix Panicus posted:

Zelensky is currently doing his best to ensure a genocide by feeding soldiers into a wood chipper for a war they can't win, so Putin winning would be a strong anti-genocide move

Ukraine should lose sovereignty over all the areas disenfranchised by the 2014 coup

That was a peaceful transition of power towards democracy

# ? Mar 10, 2024 21:52

Zerg Mans: Oct 19, 2006

Also Russia shot down MH17

# ? Mar 10, 2024 21:52

Megamissen: Jul 19, 2022; any post can be a kannapost
if you want it to be

Zerg Mans posted:

That was a peaceful transition of power towards democracy

peacefully shooting people on both your own and the opposing sides to ensure a deal that keeps the democratically elected government in place does not happen, to promote democracy

# ? Mar 10, 2024 21:56