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twistedmentat posted:I still wish they had an episode where they had to deal with a Me-262 or Komits, where they come blasting out of nowhere, take down like 2 bombers and everyone is making GBS threads themselves, and then they're gone. Cancer rocket episode would be pretty sweet.
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Mar 10, 2024 11:17
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Given all the non-flight padding on the back end of the season, it’s even more bizarre that they skipped any kind of introductory training episode at the beginning. Cutting the resistance and spy plots, including a proper intro ep, and pushing at least one of the big flying sequences to the latter part of the season would have helped character development and pacing immensely.
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Mar 10, 2024 12:33
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M_Gargantua posted:Assuming you mean Down Periscope rather than confusing Watership Down To the film’s credit this is an opinion that is universally shared by the submariners I’ve met personally, and not just goon submariners.
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Mar 10, 2024 12:38
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its crazy to make a series about WW2 that feels like it has no stakes or sense of progression
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Mar 10, 2024 15:25
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mistermojo posted:its crazy to make a series about WW2 that feels like it has no stakes or sense of progression The part that gets me is that there's absolutely a clear line of progression they could have followed, complete with a break period to get all that spicy groundside drama. You start off with the early attacks as shown, the Africa runs, and you build up to Black Week. You could do Black Week in one episode focusing on the worst missions and then when you come back with 80% of your ensemble cast missing you say "enough is enough", the 8th Airforce is currently grounded until further notice. Then you can dedicate an episode to the surviving crews dealing with R&R Leave while contrasting it against the POW stuff. Or you could dedicate an episode to the ground crews working around the clock. Then the next episode hey, Doolittle has taken over command of the 8th Airforce. We've got a new mission, and new fighter escorts. A mission goes well because the escorts cover the bombers and a spark of hope ignites. We can do this. Then you get Big Week where the 8th and the RAF conduct gigantic bombing runs to cap off the episode. You could even dedicate time to a Red Tails episode if you really wanted to focus on the fighter switch from escort to air superiority missions. Then cap it off with the ugly business of firebombings and the POW forced marches to show the impact on Germany and the quiet anticlimax of VE Day where the bomber crews are waiting for a mission that never comes. The glue holding all this stuff together wouldn't need to be Crosby's terrible narrations. All you'd need are the flight briefing scenes. They exist to inform the pilots what their mission of the day is going to be, so they're just as useful in getting the audience up to speed on the changing nature of the campaign. They're already in the show and they make the narration feel extraneous. While I'd like 10 episodes you could tell this story in 9 if they focused it better. Instead we're getting flashes of a structured narrative interlaced with a dozen other stories that don't feel like they're going anywhere.
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Mar 10, 2024 16:07
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Arc Hammer posted:While I'd like 10 episodes you could tell this story in 9 if they focused it better. Instead we're getting flashes of a structured narrative interlaced with a dozen other stories that don't feel like they're going anywhere. It’s very much a producer saying “hey we have to include X” over and over again.
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Mar 10, 2024 17:00
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MrYenko posted:It’s very much a producer saying “hey we have to include X” over and over again. And it specifically feels like it was happening after production was already well underway and most of the show was already locked in
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Mar 10, 2024 17:27
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I think all the plane parts of the show have been excellent, I just wish there was more of it, also an actual story.
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Mar 10, 2024 17:44
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FlamingLiberal posted:I remember my grandfather telling me that they were so fast that he could only see them for a second and it was only a plane he saw late in his tour It didn't help that Hitler considered the 262 a strike aircraft first and foremost and not a fighter, and that really hampered its development and fielding because Messerschmitt then had to put R&D on making a strike fighter instead of just an interceptor. And that they had lost so many of their most experienced pilots by the time it was operational. AND the fact that it ate its own engines wickedly fast. And. And. And. Wehraboos love to talk up the 262 like it was some unbeatable wonder weapon (like every other "superior" maintenance nightmare the Nazis built to impress The Little Corporal), when in actuality it was a prototype they hurried into service. The Nazis did a lot of interesting sub-variants of the 262 but all that did was give the Allies and the Soviets new ideas. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Mar 10, 2024 |
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Mar 10, 2024 18:22
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Yes it was absolutely not ready at all but once things went to poo poo for Germany mid-1944 they didn’t have a lot of options but to throw everything they could in the air You kind of saw it in a similar manner where as the Navy made it closer and closer to Japan, the Kamazake attacks intensified as the Imperial Navy ran out of experienced pilots and also ships
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Mar 10, 2024 18:25
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M_Gargantua posted:Assuming you mean Down Periscope rather than confusing Watership Down Yea that one. It was surprisingly good!
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Mar 10, 2024 18:26
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"I slept through the invasion?" "Yeah, Croz. The CGI team says drinks are on them for not making them have to render low-level bombing runs. They were able to fill the time with more haggard-faced shots of Austin Butler." I think another thing that bothers me is that they're still focusing more on Austin Butler, Callum Turner, and Barry Keoghan (  ) when Anthony Boyle and Nate Mann are unquestionably the dudes carrying what little of this show that works on their backs.
BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Mar 10, 2024 |
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Mar 10, 2024 18:39
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BIG HEADLINE posted:"I slept through the invasion?" I mean to be fair it takes them a very long time to put Austin Butler's face on when this is where they start from: 
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Mar 10, 2024 18:48
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BIG HEADLINE posted:It didn't help that Hitler considered the 262 a strike aircraft first and foremost and not a fighter, and that really hampered its development and fielding because Messerschmitt then had to put R&D on making a strike fighter instead of just an interceptor. And that they had lost so many of their most experienced pilots by the time it was operational. AND the fact that it ate its own engines wickedly fast. One dumb thing I also love about Luftwaffe R&D is that at one point somebody showed that dive bombing is quite accurate, and from then on out standing orders were to try and cram dive-bombing capability into every loving airframe they could. Yes, even the long-range heavy bomber He-117 that had a similar weight as the B-17. 
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Mar 10, 2024 19:58
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The germans did make some genuinely cool stuff with their planes. Like the automated dive bombing that would take over during the dive, drop the bomb, pull up all by itself and then hold steady until the pilot regained consciousness after blacking out during the high G pull up. The problem was that it was so good that it did the exact same maneuver every time and you could just shoot at where the plane was going to be and shoot them down. I am more and more thinking that this should have been a first part of the story that follows Cros as he slowly loses all his friends, and then we take over with Rosie as he does his missions and then takes over as a commander. I think I'm just going to be pissed forever as I think about how cool and good this show could have been if it were made by people interested in making a good show. Rosie is so cool, why aren't we doing missions with him?
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Mar 10, 2024 20:57
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I totally dive bomb with bombers in war thunder. I got really good with it too. But lop doing that irl. The 262 was pretty much better than anything the allies or soviets had on paper. But on paper doesn't mean jack. How many 262s were produced? I bet the soviets pumped out more migs and yaks in an hour than the Germans made 262s in the entire war.
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Mar 10, 2024 21:01
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It also didn't help that the Soviets got really good at building fighter planes late in the war. Take the Yak-3 for instance, which was so effective that Luftwaffe pilots eventually had standing orders to avoid engaging it below 5,000m.
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Mar 10, 2024 21:25
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twistedmentat posted:I totally dive bomb with bombers in war thunder. I got really good with it too. But lop doing that irl. A little over 1400 me-262s were delivered, but only about 300 ever saw combat, due to a mixture of lack of fuel and lack of pilots.
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Mar 10, 2024 21:44
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And most of them got blown up on the ground by mad lads strafing their airfields.
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Mar 10, 2024 21:46
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Cojawfee posted:Rosie is so cool, why aren't we doing missions with him? It was VERY important we spend an episode showing one of the Bucks being a giant drunken rear end in a top hat in Iceland so we would all be wowed at how cool he is.
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Mar 10, 2024 22:44
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You can have a hero be a drunken rear end in a top hat but you can't have a hero be a racist so it's a good thing that Cleven is a good old boy who let the Red Tails in on their plan and Egan didn't say anything.
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Mar 10, 2024 23:53
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Perestroika posted:One dumb thing I also love about Luftwaffe R&D is that at one point somebody showed that dive bombing is quite accurate, and from then on out standing orders were to try and cram dive-bombing capability into every loving airframe they could. Yes, even the long-range heavy bomber He-117 that had a similar weight as the B-17. To be fair the British an the Americans did that too. All 4 major players found out pretty early that dedicated dive bombers were siting ducks. The Germans just had the advantage of air superority for the most part. The British were using the Hurricane as a dive bomber in the far east, and apparently it was prety good at it. The USN was stuck with the SBD for a whiile. Unfortunately for the crews they needed it, and it fit in a carrier. It was a great dive bomber but it was slow as poo poo.
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Mar 11, 2024 02:13
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Ernst Udet, the guy largely responsible for developing the Luftwaffe's dive-bombing strategy and in particular the adoption of the Stuka, was almost shot down by French fighter ace Georges Guynemer in WW1. He had the guy dead to rights, but when he saw the German pilot's guns had jammed Guynemer instead came alongside, saluted, and flew away, in a display of romantic chivalry. Whoops
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Mar 11, 2024 04:31
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That was something i learned from Midway, how important Dive Bombers were in the pacific air war for the USN. I figured it was all torpedo bombers and carrier based fighters. Balls of steel there. Also I just realized that the main guy from Midway was also the bad guy from Rebel Moon.
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Mar 11, 2024 05:22
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Ed Skrein, or as I call him, rear end in a top hat Nicolas Hoult. He was Francis in the first Deadpool movie and he always seems to play dicks
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Mar 11, 2024 06:08
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Stegosnaurlax posted:To be fair the British an the Americans did that too. All 4 major players found out pretty early that dedicated dive bombers were siting ducks. The Germans just had the advantage of air superority for the most part. The British were using the Hurricane as a dive bomber in the far east, and apparently it was prety good at it. Oh yeah, in principle it's absolutely a good thing to have a dive bomber design. It's just that perhaps you shouldn't insist that every single plane you design should be able to do it, especially not your 32 ton heavy bomber that's already creaking under the strain of level flight. Mister Bates posted:Ernst Udet, the guy largely responsible for developing the Luftwaffe's dive-bombing strategy and in particular the adoption of the Stuka, was almost shot down by French fighter ace Georges Guynemer in WW1. He had the guy dead to rights, but when he saw the German pilot's guns had jammed Guynemer instead came alongside, saluted, and flew away, in a display of romantic chivalry. Another notable Udet anecdote is that sometime in 41, he was sent over on a diplomatic mission to the Soviet Union to gauge how their air force was coming along compared to the Luftwaffe, in case hostilities broke out. He came back with a pretty realistic and honest assessment along the lines of "yeah they've got a strong program and are pretty much on par with us, or will be soon". That however was politically inconvenient, so Göring just reported that upwards as "Eh, we'll crush them in no time". Whoops, indeed. Perestroika fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Mar 11, 2024 |
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Mar 11, 2024 08:49
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Perestroika posted:Oh yeah, in principle it's absolutely a good thing to have a dive bomber design. It's just that perhaps you shouldn't insist that every single plane you design should be able to do it, especially not your 32 ton heavy bomber that's already creaking under the strain of level flight. They didn't have much of a choice, every dive bomber that was designed after the war started was a huge loving disaster (I'm looking at you, Helldiver). They tunred the B-25 into a strafing bus with more guns than a Kentucky State Fair
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Mar 11, 2024 10:48
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Stegosnaurlax posted:They didn't have much of a choice, every dive bomber that was designed after the war started was a huge loving disaster (I'm looking at you, Helldiver). They tunred the B-25 into a strafing bus with more guns than a Kentucky State Fair I went to the Oshkosh air show a few years ago when I worked for a company that was in the aircraft industry (it was an AMAZING experience), and I got to see a flyable B-25 that was on display that a crew had flown to the show. It was all blue in Marine dress. There were SO MANY GUNS. It was loving crazy. Googled it and pretty sure that this was indeed the plane I saw - https://devildogsquadron.com/ PS if you ever a chance to go EAA Airventure in Oshkosh, WI for whatever reason, go.
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Mar 11, 2024 14:21
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ColonelJohnMatrix posted:PS if you ever a chance to go EAA Airventure in Oshkosh, WI for whatever reason, go. It's extremely difficult to get a hotel reservation anywhere near Oshkosh because you have to book them literally the day the rooms become available. Staying within driving range and then just getting there stupidly early and waiting for the gates to open is the most viable option for most.
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Mar 11, 2024 15:03
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BIG HEADLINE posted:It's extremely difficult to get a hotel reservation anywhere near Oshkosh because you have to book them literally the day the rooms become available. I was lucky that when I went, the company I was working for had a long standing relationship with some couple that rented out their house to them the week of the show and apparently had been doing it for awhile. I remember just standing outside the house in the evening and what was going on overhead just insanity. It was also cool eating dinner on lake Winnebago one of the evenings because the docks all had float planes EVERYWHERE. I was there for 2 days if I remember correctly and spent the majority of the time with my mouth hanging open at all the cool poo poo.
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Mar 11, 2024 15:28
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I grew up in Breckenridge TX which is a tiny insignificant town in nowhere Texas but we had a tiny airport for like cessnas and a company there (Ezell Aviation) was big in restoring ww2 fighters and there were a couple guys in town that owned several and frequently flew them. One of them was my friends grandpa and he would crash one of his fighters every couple of years (seriously I think he had like 7 crashes) and walked away from every one. We also had a pretty significant air show every year until I was in high school and I assume it was because of the presence of said company/hobbyists. Their site has some really cool pictures of their restoration projects: http://www.ezellaviation.com/ Is there a ww2 thread? As disappointing as this show is it got me to rewatch BoB and The Pacific (which I remember not liking but loved on rewatch) and then that got me to read Neptune's Inferno and now I am reading Ian Toll's pacific trilogy. I've never been into ww2 books but I definitely am now which is on brand considering I just turned 40. I want to read more but I don't want to fill this thread up with recommendation requests if there is a dedicated ww2 thread.
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Mar 11, 2024 15:35
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I'm not sure if there is a WW2 thread or not but if there is I'd love the link! I am excited to rewatch both the Pacific and BOB after this. Others have said it here, but this show very clearly suffers from development hell shenanigans. I don't dislike like it to the point that some do, but I also agree it could've been much better with a more cohesive narrative.
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Mar 11, 2024 15:45
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D-Pad posted:Is there a ww2 thread? There is a MilHist thread: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3950461
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Mar 11, 2024 16:33
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WW2 threads usually go 3 ways, tank nerds arguing about war thunder bias stats, politics of the day or how it should have been fought.
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Mar 11, 2024 16:37
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After having a quick look at that thread, I can say I much prefer this one acting a thinly veiled WW2 discussion around the show, so keep it up here!
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Mar 11, 2024 16:43
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I really only care about aviation engineering and submarines, the poo poo that got rubber stamped from 1938 and 1952 was such a giant leap in mechanical engineering it boggles my mind
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Mar 11, 2024 16:48
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This one is good because it also talks about movies and shows which can be entertaining outside of historical accuracy and authenticity.
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Mar 11, 2024 16:54
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Besides the Milhist Thread there is also the Coldwar/Airpower Thread https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3910801
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Mar 11, 2024 16:59
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ColonelJohnMatrix posted:I'm not sure if there is a WW2 thread or not but if there is I'd love the link! The frustrating part is that the air war, more than any of the other shows, is the one where you had the easiest to establish cohesive narrative. It's not the island assault x10 of pacific, for example. You could have easily done: war starts, US doesn't have enough pilots, so training goes crazy and lots of people die in training. When they finally make it to Europe, its smaller missions at the edges, then Lemay has the whole combat box idea. We dont need no stinking escorts. So you start getting the really big missions with all the insane losses. So the US takes this strike fighter and turns it into an escort fighter, and doolittle comes in and changes thee escort philosophy to where the fighters go ahead and hit the luftwaffe before they get to the bombers. And all of these things are things that are faintly alluded to in the show, they never coalesce around an actual narrative.
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Mar 11, 2024 17:02
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Stegosnaurlax posted:WW2 threads usually go 3 ways, tank nerds arguing about war thunder bias stats, politics of the day or how it should have been fought. I am really tried of the modern contrarians going "Yea, the allies really wanted to join the Nazis, look at the German American Bund and The League of British Fascists! It was just the soviets that fought and won against the nazis". Yea, groups that had like zero political power and just because the Bund was able to rent out Madison Square Garden for their George Washington and Swastika party doesn't indicate some broad support for Nazis and fascism in general in the US. If people opposed the US Joining the war or supporting the European Allies it was in terms of isolation, rather than ideology. This isn't to mention the people that act like Japan was some poor put upon nation and America was the aggressor in the Pacific. Arc Hammer posted:Ed Skrein, or as I call him, rear end in a top hat Nicolas Hoult. Ah that's right, I just remember him as First Dariio from Game of Thrones. Dude has a face that looks like it was carved from stone.
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Mar 11, 2024 17:45
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