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We should put pig farms in all the native wetlands, because of tax dollars.
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Mar 11, 2024 04:55
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Bucky Fullminster posted:Ok so you guys don't want hundreds of millions of virtually free extra dollars per year by just letting boats tie up here.
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Mar 11, 2024 05:12
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Hundreds of millions is a stretch. Monaco, during F1 race week averages €3,500 per birth per day. While it's not a bad idea to convert it into a marina / super yacht berth and taking that money and giving it to the Sydney coffers, the problem you now have is the Navy will want a new Naval base built. And I'd predict it would take an age to break even on the costs of an entirely new defence port in 2024 vs yacht fees.
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Mar 11, 2024 06:14
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Blamestorm posted:Not always, but in principle, when you circulate money through the economy more flows to people on lower incomes, addressing inequality and stimulating growth (as they then have more to spend). Money locked up in bank accounts is of most use to banks. Money that is spent on goods and services produces benefits (and yes sometimes taxes) several times - I give $20 to the fish and chips shop, they spend part on wages, part to buy the fish, part on water/electricity/rent - then the people who got it as wages spend it on new clothes for their kids, petrol at the service station - that pays for the wages of the kmart checkout person, the people at the servo - etc. The more and faster the same money circulates, the more economic activity and value is produced- is the theory. And yes, this activity gets taxed too at many points. A lot of it flows nationally because we have national supply chains and our cities are big enough proportions of our population and economy that something major in Sydney or Melbourne can have an effect on national figures. Yeah but now you're still $20 out, so someone else has to give you money for your own kids' clothes and petrol and stuff, and we're back where we started. This whole "economy" thing is sounding pretty made up tbh. The "generally flowing downwards" makes a bit of sense though I guess. But then it just goes right back to the top when it gets hoovered up by the supermarkets and energy companies and capitalists in general, right? Like that's literally where their money comes from. I dunno, I guess I'm just saying "the movement of money" (in a closed system) seems like a weird metric to measure anything by. But I know I'm dumb, sorry. Appreciate the effort post though, thanks heaps. CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Absolutly correct we dont want it. Billionaire pollution can just gently caress the hell off. The under-funded womens shelters appreciate your principled stance. Doctor Spaceman posted:Where is this estimate coming from? Boisterous exuberance of course. It's possibly the best place to pull up in the southern hemisphere. But you're right, the mooring fees would probably max out at a few grand a day, so only a few million per year. Might get to the hundreds once you start filling them up and servicing them though. I really thought the hard part of that was going to be finding somewhere else for the navy. e - lol yeah like Yeast said Bucky Fullminster fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Mar 11, 2024 |
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Mar 11, 2024 06:15
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Bucky Fullminster posted:I’m told Sydney Airport is at capacity What?
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Mar 11, 2024 06:46
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how about you come up with a plan for the money to get to the underfunded women's shelters before you start drawing up schematics and diagrams, all you're doing without it is just milking billionaires to make more millionaires
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Mar 11, 2024 07:13
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I guarantee that every cent taken from any billionaire I guillotine will go to women's shelters.
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Mar 11, 2024 07:50
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Bucky Fullminster posted:Semi-seriously, I've never really understood when they say things like "This Event brought millions of dollars into the economy". Like, no, you just moved money from from one person's account to another. Now one person has a bit more, and one person has a bit less. On a "town" level, sure, but on a national level, the total amount of money in the economy remains the same. Is is it just because the transaction is taxed? Anyway, THIS is how you get actually more money in the economy. That seems like a bizarrely mercantilist view of macroeconomics. you may want to skim these: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_propensity_to_consume
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Mar 11, 2024 07:52
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nocturama posted:What? It is a very serious joke about why they're having to build another one. Yeast posted:it would take an age to break even on the costs of an entirely new defence port in 2024 vs yacht fees. Selling this carpark alone would probably cover a good chunk of it. I just want to return the land to the public, the berthing fees are an ancillary bonus.  birdstrike posted:That seems like a bizarrely mercantilist view of macroeconomics. Thanks.
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Mar 11, 2024 08:26
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Bucky Fullminster posted:Boisterous exuberance
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Mar 11, 2024 08:27
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Bucky Fullminster posted:
Strawmanning means you dont have any decent reply and basically my answer to a strawman is "gently caress off, it's a stupid way to debate" There is more than enough money for womens shelters from raising Gina Rinehart's taxes of you want to play it like that plus Garden Island if the navy vacated how many billions would that cost and also how about the regular visits foreign warships contribute to the economy to continue to play this game do you forgo? It's a badly thought out idea esp trying to cater to a tiny mega wealthy minority. The fact anyone seriously suggests an idea to cater for billionaires on SA is just..... does my goddamn head in.
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Mar 11, 2024 08:29
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If I was a billionaire with a superyacht I can think of plenty of better and more fun places to park it than Sydney
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Mar 11, 2024 08:32
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:foreign warships contribute to the economy Ah, right. Peaceful pleasure crafts = bad, literal death machines = good. Got it.
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Mar 11, 2024 08:39
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he literally needs a mod to change his name to this. asap
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Mar 11, 2024 08:51
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Bucky Fullminster posted:Ok so you guys don't want hundreds of millions of virtually free extra dollars per year by just letting boats tie up here. We'll just keep using it to store massive and almost entirely pointless navy boats. Even the 5 storey carpark there underneath Embarkation Park alone would be worth billions. We could just close a few tax loopholes and implement a wealth tax
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Mar 11, 2024 08:54
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Bucky Fullminster posted:Yeah but now you're still $20 out, so someone else has to give you money for your own kids' clothes and petrol and stuff, and we're back where we started. This whole "economy" thing is sounding pretty made up tbh. Think about it this way. I give you $20 to you for you to cook me a meal. I am up one meal, down $20 and you are up $20 and down one hour of your time. You then give me $20 to clean up your garden. I am now quits on money but up on a meal, down on one hour. You are quits on money but up on a clean garden and down one hour. The money changing hands was really a proxy for us exchanging time and services. This is economic activity, we are working and doing poo poo that needs doing (rather than earning money as an end in itself). The money is just tracking it. Assuming you are a cook and I am a gardener we are both more efficient doing it this way than the other way around - maybe in that case we’d each be down two hours. Obviously more complex in the real world but that’s basically why we have money at all, in theory. When money is flying around, the faster it flies around correlates with more hours of work, things produced and consumed, services delivered. That activity is the actual economy, not the allocation of money or who currently has it. (In theory! In theory!). Here is an economist joke making fun of this concept if it amuses you: Two economists are walking in a forest when they come across a pile of poo poo. The first economist says to the other “I’ll pay you $100 to eat that pile of poo poo.” The second economist takes the $100 and eats the pile of poo poo. They continue walking until they come across a second pile of poo poo. The second economist turns to the first and says “I’ll pay you $100 to eat that pile of poo poo.” The first economist takes the $100 and eats a pile of poo poo. Walking a little more, the first economist looks at the second and says, "You know, I gave you $100 to eat poo poo, then you gave me back the same $100 to eat poo poo. I can't help but feel like we both just ate poo poo for nothing." "That's not true", responded the second economist. "We increased the GDP by $200!"
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Mar 11, 2024 08:58
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Bucky Fullminster posted:Bucky, I know you think the idea of the wealthy being nearby will benefit the local economy, but I really need you to look into what actually happens The wealthy do not pay for things, they would never get or stay wealthy if they did. They might spend money, but only if there is a return. The marina would need to be built to the standards needed to accommodate yachts of those sizes and mooring requirements, many millions of dollars that would come from the local or state government at the expense of other programs and services. The marina would also be exclusive to those foreign yachts, whose owners and residents do not go to the local shops, or nip round the pub on an evening. Those that do show up will invest their money in demanding more from the local government, cheaply buying local politicians to get their way. They will never pay for the impact their berthing has, only some nominal fig leaf fee that leaves the marina dependent on local or state services to survive. Local residents will soon find property too expensive to own, and local entertainment closed as previously unknown regulations are enforced. Eventually, an enclave will develop that serves as a buffer to people out, letting only basic goods in, mostly fuel and water. You might ask about food, but that is all sourced from special arrangements with food service companies and high end sources. Most of it will be delivered by boat. A rich neighbour will never benefit you.
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Mar 11, 2024 09:19
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I'm not sure Bucky's idea is total trash, but I'm also not sure he's thought it through properly. The problem with ultra billionaires is they horde poo poo, they're not spending money here. If anything, they'll waste our money by forcing us to medievac their rear end off their boats and spread police all over so they don't have to see poor people. Take the similar idea, but set up more modern moorings for Cruise ships in a ring around Australia. Bigger and better then the ones we've got now. Pour some of that tax money into tourism dollars and set up a rotating ring of Cruise ships that target the moderately wealthy. Rich enough to bleed them for their cash, but not rich enough to know how to horde it in the Caymans. You revitalise a bunch of regional towns, provide jobs of all sorts, and we don't have to worry about setting up ridiculous spaces to moor one guys boat.
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Mar 11, 2024 09:30
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Konomex posted:and spread police all over okay so NSWpol will clean up then.
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Mar 11, 2024 09:32
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Blamestorm posted:Think about it this way. I give you $20 to you for you to cook me a meal. I am up one meal, down $20 and you are up $20 and down one hour of your time. You then give me $20 to clean up your garden. I am now quits on money but up on a meal, down on one hour. You are quits on money but up on a clean garden and down one hour. That's a fantastic explanation and now it makes quite a lot more sense, cheers. Spookydonut posted:We could just close a few tax loopholes and implement a wealth tax We can, nay must, do both. EoRaptor posted:The marina would need to be built to the standards needed to accommodate yachts of those sizes and mooring requirements, many millions of dollars that would come from the local or state government at the expense of other programs and services. It's already built! They dock literal aircraft carriers there at the moment. quote:Local residents will soon find property too expensive to own, and local entertainment closed as previously unknown regulations are enforced. I'm afraid I have bad news about Potts Point.
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Mar 11, 2024 09:32
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we should have mini subs in the harbour to enforce dock fees
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Mar 11, 2024 09:33
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and a gun emplacement on the fort in the middle
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Mar 11, 2024 09:34
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Bucky Fullminster posted:That's a fantastic explanation and now it makes quite a lot more sense, cheers. i think the expectations of a marina for billionaire super yacht owners is a bit more nuanced than just 'can it dock an aircraft carrier'
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Mar 11, 2024 09:42
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Bucky Fullminster posted:Well in honour of the new thread here’s a few on the shortlist for ya: anyway, your harbour baths and school lunch gruel pots sound more interesting.
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Mar 11, 2024 09:44
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the state that keeps finding asbestos in playgrounds 'hey, we should also do school lunches!'
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Mar 11, 2024 09:45
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they should probably stop getting mulch from wittenoom
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Mar 11, 2024 09:49
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blue sky mining playground supplies
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Mar 11, 2024 09:49
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Better rip up all those bike paths too Bucky, the super rich won't want to see riff raff while sitting in their limo being driven around and spending money
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Mar 11, 2024 10:42
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imnotinsane posted:Better rip up all those bike paths too Bucky, the super rich won't want to see riff raff while sitting in their limo being driven around and spending money hire the boring company to make underground bike tunnels for the super rich on whatever loving bike the fitness minded super rich ride. when they aren't eating the blood of their own sons for immortality or whatever the gently caress it is they do.
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Mar 11, 2024 10:56
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Underground yacht tunnels to Uluru
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Mar 11, 2024 11:31
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hambeet posted:anyway, your harbour baths and school lunch gruel pots sound more interesting. I like the Waste one. imnotinsane posted:Better rip up all those bike paths too Bucky, the super rich won't want to see riff raff while sitting in their limo being driven around and spending money They can either take it as is or go gently caress themselves But really we all know that less car-dependence makes cities far more inviting.
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Mar 11, 2024 12:28
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Eediot Jedi posted:Underground yacht tunnels to Wittenoom
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Mar 11, 2024 12:36
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Bucky Fullminster posted:But really we all know that less car-dependence makes cities far more inviting. we know that they don't care (who's they? the wizards)
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Mar 11, 2024 12:41
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imnotinsane posted:Better rip up all those bike paths too Bucky, the super rich won't want to see riff raff while sitting in their limo being driven around and spending money Those super rich wouldnt dream of limos, they would use their private helicopter to fly to the Hunter Valley and be served hand and foot by people they pay next to nothing for with imported luxury goods. And who is going to sail their super yacht from Morocco / California to the arse end of the world anyway? Private jet all the way!
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Mar 11, 2024 21:13
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Bucky Fullminster posted:
Particularly to billionaires with yachts that cost more to staff than the average annual income of the citizen of said city Also, giving ultimatums to billionaires always works. They would never wield the undue influence and power from their cash reserves to change things solely for their own benefit!
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Mar 11, 2024 22:19
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:people they pay next to nothing I, Butthole posted:cost more to staff than the average annual income of the citizen of said city Hmmmmm quote:wield the undue influence and power from their cash reserves to change things solely for their own benefit! Good point, we should send them the superhighway plan too.
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Mar 12, 2024 00:21
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Autisanal Cheese posted:shouldn't be surprised that "progressive no" turned into mask-off racism in record time Old post but he was reposting them (from Facebook I guess) nobody thought he was behind them
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Mar 12, 2024 04:52
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in case you were wondering whose fault it is the liberals fail to preselect women in winnable seats: it's the gays
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Mar 12, 2024 05:09
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Solemn Sloth posted:in case you were wondering whose fault it is the liberals fail to preselect women in winnable seats: The gays? I knew it was them. Even when it was the misogynists I knew it was them.
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Mar 12, 2024 05:12
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The perfidious gays
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Mar 12, 2024 05:12
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