|
Yeah, options are good. Ultimately, though, I'm always going to pick the option to put her down, not uplift, revel in, or exploit her. That's how it is.  Hope that can be accepted.I recall a certain player who got so used to having Camellia's off tank combat skills, buffing spells, etc. in his party that when the game forced their ethics into opposition, he killed her off as demanded and then created a mercenary with identical stats but a different alignment called "Not Camellia" to take her place in his party. Under the circumstances, it was probably a good idea.
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 02:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 21:18 |
|
|
achtungnight posted:I don’t think you get what I’m saying, Professor. It’s not the “you can’t fix this character and that’s great” mentality I don’t understand. It’s the whole “Iago did nothing wrong.” “Scar for President!” “Camellia lover for life.” mentality. That’s what I don’t understand. These characters absolutely did messed up stuff. They should not be welcomed. Character can do messed up stuff and still be likeable as a well created character. The point is that, unlike Daeran and That Other Evil NPC, Camellia is not a well created character.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 03:21
|
|
|
One of the male romances in the game caught me off guard because it reverses the typical trend in video games where you have to do things for the character. Instead, this character is the one wooing you with gifts and supporting you.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 03:22
|
|
|
Camellia is very well created. She is tailor made to be repugnant and hateable and is a constant source of all sorts of discussion. To me that makes her great.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 03:38
|
|
|
Szarrukin posted:Massive hateboner community had on Aerie is still a mystery for me. For me, it was that she came across as too childish, at least from where I stood even back then (I was in my teens). It felt gross, to be honest  Cythereal posted:While her and her romance can be seen as problematic and evocative of the Healing Dick, I think the specific context of the character and relationship put her in a very different light. Though that character is definitely well done and avoids most of the tropes that surround people like her, she is also a symptom of how some women and relationships are portrayed in the Pathfinder APs. I will have a lot to say about that when the time comes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 04:23
|
|
|
SettingSun posted:Camellia is very well created. She is tailor made to be repugnant and hateable and is a constant source of all sorts of discussion. To me that makes her great. I still think Owlcat was wrong to give into the fan complaints that she was too much of a twist. Her character is much more interesting when she's actually good at hiding.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 12:21
|
|
|
Vargatron posted:One of the male romances in the game caught me off guard because it reverses the typical trend in video games where you have to do things for the character. Instead, this character is the one wooing you with gifts and supporting you. Yeah, that's really nice. Though I've seen some criticism of that, too. But some people are never satisfied. Like the ones that decried that characters never approach the PC to flirt with them, and then went apeshit when Anders flirted with a male Champion of Kirkwall.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 16:42
|
|
|
Torrannor posted:Yeah, that's really nice. Though I've seen some criticism of that, too. But some people are never satisfied. Like the ones that decried that characters never approach the PC to flirt with them, and then went apeshit when Anders flirted with a male Champion of Kirkwall. Yeah, but that was because Anders is Anders 
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 16:50
|
|
|
"fixing" Cammy would not be eliminating her murderhobo-ness, but diverting it towards more acceptable targets But I don't think we can even do that, she's pure murderhobo all the way and should be the demon pc Lord Koth posted:The big difference with Camellia is that, unlike basically all the other characters mentioned here, she doesn't have any sort of trauma, ideology or circumstance that has caused her issues. She is just legitimately mentally ill, and no amount of therapy or romance is going to "fix" her. Hell, the "good" end to her romance in the slides is that she runs away, because she knows that she's going to be unable to resist attempting to kill you as well at some point. Which does a decent job of showing just how unfixable she actually is, even with someone she cares about. I dunno, Papa Gwerm is still alive so Camellia is capable of a miniscule of self-restraint sometimes
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 18:08
|
|
|
CommissarMega posted:Yeah, but that was because Anders is Anders No, it was mostly because gamers by and large are (and were even more so at the time) homophobic.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 21:12
|
|
|
Nissin Cup Nudist posted:"fixing" Cammy would not be eliminating her murderhobo-ness, but diverting it towards more acceptable targets Camelia Morgan.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 21:23
|
|
|
Nissin Cup Nudist posted:"fixing" Cammy would not be eliminating her murderhobo-ness, but diverting it towards more acceptable targets Isn't that the crusade.txt
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 22:26
|
|
|
steinrokkan posted:Isn't that the crusade.txt Well, yeah, if she just really, REALLY got off on killing the people/animals/plants/constructs/undead/outsiders/elementals and everything else that got in our way, she would, at worst, be an unsavory addition to the party. But, well, that's not enough for her, and she has extracurriculars that most reasonable people can't abide.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 23:16
|
|
|
Capfalcon posted:Well, yeah, if she just really, REALLY got off on killing the people/animals/plants/constructs/undead/outsiders/elementals and everything else that got in our way, she would, at worst, be an unsavory addition to the party. But, well, that's not enough for her, and she has extracurriculars that most reasonable people can't abide. And indeed this is basically how the demon path is initially treated if you choose to play that way. You're a major loose cannon with a worrying streak of murderous rage, but you're killing enough demons and cultists that Irabeth decides the collateral damage is, ultimately, acceptable even if she's very unhappy about it. Cammy is treated worse than the route where you willingly transform into a demon.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 23:29
|
|
|
Capfalcon posted:I still think Owlcat was wrong to give into the fan complaints that she was too much of a twist. Her character is much more interesting when she's actually good at hiding. All they needed to have was that Undetectable Alignment necklace and that would have told you all you needed to know. All the other stuff they rewrote seemed superfluous. That's the thing about evil right? It hides itself well.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 23:37
|
|
|
Vargatron posted:All they needed to have was that Undetectable Alignment necklace and that would have told you all you needed to know. All the other stuff they rewrote seemed superfluous. That's the thing about evil right? It hides itself well. But that's really as much of an issue of the alignment system as it is of the game.
|
|
#
?
Mar 11, 2024 23:59
|
|
|
It does not need to be named "Amulet Of Hiding Alignment", just set her alignment to whatever and give an amulet that cannot be removed "because it is cursed/family heirloom/whatever"
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 00:07
|
|
|
I still wonder where all these alpha/beta posts of people complaining that Camellia actually being evil was confusing people so they changed her alignment readout from "True Neutral" to "Undetectable" actually are. The main thing I remember being speculated about early on in regards to her and the necklace was whether or not she had some sort of relation with serpentfolk and/or their deity Ydersius. Because it looks very similar to their unholy symbol. And yeah, Ydersius is Chaotic Evil, so this didn't exactly paint her in a better light, but that line of speculation was whether she was a reincarnation/infiltrator/really odd Shaman/??? at the time.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 00:11
|
|
|
Vargatron posted:All they needed to have was that Undetectable Alignment necklace and that would have told you all you needed to know. All the other stuff they rewrote seemed superfluous. That's the thing about evil right? It hides itself well. Characters having non-functional items they refuse to remove goes all the way back to Baldur's Gate, at least! It's not exactly like it's unheard of!
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 00:53
|
|
|
Capfalcon posted:Characters having non-functional items they refuse to remove goes all the way back to Baldur's Gate, at least! It's not exactly like it's unheard of! Yes, but Minsc doesn't want to lose his Miniature Giant Space Hamster, which is perfectly normal and fine. I think Annah and Fall-From-Grace also had stuff they couldn't remove, but I can't remember.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 01:25
|
|
|
Vargatron posted:One of the male romances in the game caught me off guard because it reverses the typical trend in video games where you have to do things for the character. Instead, this character is the one wooing you with gifts and supporting you. What's even more amusing about this is, if it's the one I'm thinking of, he only stops if you outright tell him to. Responding to his advances with politeness or indifference just encourages him even more 
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 01:48
|
|
|
berryjon posted:Yes, but Minsc doesn't want to lose his Miniature Giant Space Hamster, which is perfectly normal and fine. I think Annah and Fall-From-Grace also had stuff they couldn't remove, but I can't remember. Edwin had irremovable amulet
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 01:55
|
|
|
Szarrukin posted:Edwin had irremovable amulet What about Sandrah? Anyone remember what she had?
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 02:53
|
|
|
I think most of the party members in PS:T had some item you couldn't take away from them. Some were basic weapons you could replace with better weapons (like Morte's teeth) but never remove to get rid of, some were basic armor you could replace in similar fashion (Annah), some just would not let you remove something but might have other ways to upgrade it if it was major gear (Dak'kon's sword, Nordom's crossbows). Grace would chide you for trying to do anything with her diary, but yeah it otherwise didn't take up an equip slot. Can't recall if Vhailor and Ignus had much of anything like that because I basically never used them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 03:36
|
|
|
Linzi in Kingmaker has a ring you can't take off of her, so Owlcat's engine has always been capable of it. (Her ring has an effect, and Camellia's could similarly have a secondary effect to make it less obvious what's up.) Some folks earlier in the thread said that her alignment used to be less obvious, but was changed to be the way it is currently; assuming that's accurate, making it easy to tell that she's evil would be a deliberate choice by the developer. The undetectable alignment thing is more of an in-universe explanation of why she manages to live in this city and travel in these circles and not get nuked into oblivion by the first paladin she runs across.
idonotlikepeas fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Mar 12, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 04:02
|
|
|
idonotlikepeas posted:Some folks earlier in the thread said that her alignment used to be less obvious, but was changed to be the way it is currently; assuming that's accurate, making it easy to tell that she's evil would be a deliberate choice by the developer. Yeah, I'm told some testers missed every hint, were blindsided, and complained.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 04:16
|
|
|
Quackles posted:What about Sandrah? Anyone remember what she had? From what I remember she just had regular equipment but it was all overpowered as gently caress and bound to her. If you were quick enough you could actually remove it and sell it and it would respawn on her, so you could farm gold infinitely. I'm probably forgetting a few amulets of super specialness or something. Thankfully most of the horror that was Sandrah has blurred.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 09:32
|
|
|
Chest Burster Just wrapping up a few sidequests today. This is another spot to get more crafting materials.  The party, alas, has been at this for a while and they're getting tired. I choose to ignore this and keep going to Topaz Solutions, the apothecary that Anevia suspected was a cultist hideout.  Mimics! Wrath's interpretation of this venerable fantasy monster is, in my opinion, honestly kind of adorable. They're quite sturdy for this point in the game, but slow and don't have the sense to wait until you get close to reveal themselves.  I have to wonder whether this dude was responsible for the mimics or if he's as surprised as we are.  Yua takes his weapon, with the +2 bonus it's an upgrade over her heavy crossbow. If the effect sounds strangely specific, it's meant for Daeran - he's an oracle.   How fascinating! Every culture has their own unique way of putting a fish on a stick! Are you being sarcastic, or...? Moving on to the Tirabade residence, the party's fatigue is now much more severe. If you have any sense, this is the point where you really should stop and rest. I do not have any sense and I'm playing on Story so this is inconvenient rather than crippling.  There's a couple of 'entranced' troopers guarding the house. Though the name suggests they might be mind-controlled by magic, they're listed as evil and there's no magic to dispel, so I'm clocking these in as cultists.  Inside is what 'entranced' enemies usually herald, and if I wasn't playing on Story difficulty, trying this while the party's exhausted would be suicide. Succubi are tough opponents at this point in the game on any but the easiest difficulty.  As it is, I stick her babydoll on Lann.  The promised cache of emergency supplies is handy.  However, there's a small problem: the party's carrying capacity is based on the total strength of everyone in the party. The party's exhausted, so suddenly the party is heavily overburdened and can't leave the map. I have to chuck a bunch of heavy, low-value loot like armor.  The inventory helpfully includes a variety of sorting algorithms.  Many, many random encounters later, Yua straggles into the Defender's Heart and offloads the loot. I keep the lockpicks, the midnight bolt, Terendelev's scales, the bag of holding, a few letters, the broken holy symbol I found earlier, and a couple of very rare crafting reagants called magic essences - these are used for some plot-relevant items, so they're worth holding on to.  Now that I'm back in a hub, let's take a look at the shithead I recruited for sake of the LP. Character Overview: Daeran Neutral Evil Aasimar Oracle, atheist Romance: Men and Women Can I Fix Him: No Incompatible Paths: (spoiler) Background: Emissary (Add Persuasion and Knowledge: World as class skills, +1 bonus if already class skills, add proficiency with rapiers and buckler shields) An all-around awful person who's happy to watch the world burn as long as he can make smores over the flames, Daeran expects you to overlook his total lack of empathy and decency because he's hot, rich, and the queen's cousin. He also lives in constant terror because he's getting his divine magic from something, and given that he's an atheist that something is probably not very nice. Good riddance to an obnoxious twerp who peaked in high school and never forgave the world for not caring that he was the prom king afterwards. Mechanically, Daeran is very specifically focused on being the best possible healer you can be in this game, and he's drat good at it. Credit where it's due. I will not cover level-ups for characters outside my core party from here on.  On to characters I actually like...   (Seelah waves to you. She is sitting at a table with the trio you met previously: the knight, the half-elf, and the red-headed halfling.) "Yua! Come! Let me properly introduce you to Elan, Jannah, and Curl — the fearless warriors of the League of the Inspiring Cart! (Seelah pushes a mug of beer toward you and speaks softly,) "It was me who convinced Irabeth to use what Jannah, Curl, and Elan found for a little party. If you look out the window, you might think the End Times have come and the Abyss has devoured us all. I thought some simple pleasures — good food and good company — could help keep the gloom at bay." (Seelah looks at you hesitantly, as if trying to gauge your reaction.) [Good] "I understand. We need to continue living and fighting, however hard that might be, even amidst the chaos that has befallen the city." "Allow me to declare my support for Seelah's decision as well. Experience tells me that we should shed no tears until after our victory. If we start to mourn the fallen while the battle is still raging, we'll be jeopardizing all our efforts. Now is the time for rest. We'll bury the dead after the last demon has been driven from Kenabres." "Hey, are we just going to sit here with grim faces? I say we get to know each other a little better, so we have better reasons to toast!" "How do all of you know Seelah?"I'm guessing these are other existing setting characters or from the AP.   "I met Seelah at a tavern in Kenabres. Before the attack, of course. She was one of the few who would sit at a table with the Condemned. Knights usually don't even look at us. But Seelah is different — I knew it the moment I saw her!" "That's what made me notice Seelah too. So I sat down to talk to her. I never understood why everyone treated the Condemned so horribly, and I still don't. Our Curl is a great lad! So after that night, Seelah and I went round the taverns together every day." "Mendev is an amazing place. People from all over the world come here — for glory, redemption, or to help those in trouble. And they always find each other. This might be the best place in the world to find like-minded people, and friends. That was a toast, in case you didn't notice!" "I'll drink to that! So I've only known Seelah for a few days myself. I'd gotten tired of the traveling bard life and came here to join the crusade. I'd barely been in Kenabres an hour before Deskari attacked and sent me tumbling down that fissure running through the city. Seelah was the first person I met down there, she'd taken a fall herself." "Praise Iomedae I'd kept my armor on during the festival! I never would have thought to ask Iomedae - or Desna - to send a bard my way during a battle like that, but you sure worked out well!" "Seelah, did you call me over just because? Or is something the matter?"Put a pin in Seelah's line here about how people meet in Mendev. While I haven't gone prying into anyone's backstories, a lot of characters around will talk about how their families came to be because of Mendev. Irabeth's parents, a human noble and an orc warrior, both came to Mendev to join the crusade and fell in love there. Anevia was a street urchin raised in a whorehouse - strongly implied to have been sexually exploited herself - until Irabeth met her by chance. Seelah came here looking for redemption. For all the horror and evil of the Worldwound, there's been no shortage of genuine good that's come from the crisis as well.  (Elan shakes his head.) "Bad idea, sister. I told you — I don't want to bother anyone else with my problems. I need to handle them on my own." "Oh, come on. Hiding your sadness from your friends is no way to live." "Curl is right. Yua helped me find you. Without her help I'd still be looking for you all over Kenabres. So, Elan, come on. Stop being so stubborn!" (The young knight shakes his head.) "In all truth, I do not wish to impose. My problems are just minor troubles. A paladin of Iomedae and her friend certainly have more important things to do. Especially now that Kenabres has been overrun with demons." "If I've learned anything in life, it's that there's nothing minor about good and evil." (Seelah begins seriously, but then a smile lights up her face.) "Take the three of you, for example. It seems like all you did was save one cart from some lesser demons. But look how many people are happy now! That feat will never be sung of in songs, but who knows, maybe thanks to this one joyous hour of peace and rest, the defenders of Kenabres will find the strength to protect the city." (Seelah catches her breath.) "I talk too much, don't I? Well, Sir Elan, I want to help you, and my reputation as a holy warrior of Iomedae won't suffer if it's more of a minor adventure than a glorious feat." (The knight sighs and seems a little embarrassed.) "All right! I'll explain. The life of a crusader has given me more than just a purpose and a chance to serve a righteous cause. When I abandoned the life of a mercenary and came to Mendev, I gained something else I never expected. It's here that I met — may all the ladies here forgive me — the finest girl in all the world. It's a miracle she found any love in her own heart for a bungler like me. But I'm not about to let this miracle go. Not even the demon lord Deskari and all his demon army can stand in my way. Luckily, my beloved is now safely away from Kenabres. For half a year I've been getting up my courage to propose to her. I even ordered a ring from Darek Sunhammer, the best jeweler Mendev. Independent knightly orders live mostly off donations, and I'm not what you would call rich, but I so want to make Kiana happy... Oh, it took me three months to find a jewel the same shade as her eyes! And twice that long to scrape together enough money. Master Darek's work was worth it... but I lost the ring during the demon attack, and I'll probably never find a worthy replacement."Fun fact, one of the vendor trash items you find in this game is 'Counterfeit Darek Sunhammer Jewelry.'  "Fine, I will help." (Seelah puts her hand on your shoulder.) "Thanks for agreeing to help. Elan is a good man and a true knight, and I think the world should repay those who are so devoted to doing good. Let's help him, so he can propose to his beloved the way he wanted!" "Seelah, I hope you can convince Irabeth to let me go with you when you do this. I don't want to be parted from my friends!" "Of course. If the League of the Inspiring Cart has come together in this dark hour, we must continue onward together!" A certain someone is very fortunate that Seelah never asked me out on a date or otherwise showed any signs of interest. I would have said yes in a heartbeat at this point. [Perception 12] "I think Kaylessa might be a drow." (Success!) (You see a shadow pass over Forn's eyes for a single instant, then his face is just as impassive as before.) "A drow? Unlikely. It's more plausible that her dark service has left a brand similar to the one that twisted the entire cursed drow race. A coincidence, I would think." "I would not. I met Kaylessa." (Forn's melancholic expression remains calm, but his entire body tenses, and his fingers wrap around the handle of his weapon.) "Under what circumstances? I hope you seized the opportunity to kill her." "Are you certain of your allegations?" (Forn lowers his head and says in a hollow voice,) "I am. Her misdeeds are terrible and proven with absolute certainty." "Problem is, I don't buy your allegations without proof any more than I bought Hulrun's allegations about my fellow dreamers. I let her go." (After giving you a saddened look, Forn stares off into the distance.) "Your decision is regrettable. I'm afraid that in doing so, you've condemned her many future victims to death. I suppose it just means that bringing this hunt to a close falls upon my shoulders."So long, kickstarter backer hitman for the elf Illuminati. We will meet again, unfortunately.  "What's your problem with Daeran? Is there bad blood between you two?" "Oh no, nothing like that. I think he dislikes all paladins equally. But the real question is, who does he like? Only his hangers-on, I'd wager. The Count has a certain reputation in Mendev. He's not a pleasant individual by any means, but he's not known for any particular villainy either. The Count enjoys a life of leisure surrounded by a gaggle of sycophants, who are always eager to badmouth the Queen at his command. He likes settling scores, too. There was a hero of the first crusades — Sir Lant, a kind and honest man. After the end of his glorious career as a soldier, he became a wise mentor to the younger generation. He ran afoul of the Count somehow — perhaps by lecturing him about his idle lifestyle and a lack of purpose. When Sir Lant died, the Count managed to buy a portion of his estate and ordered the knight's helmet to be reforged into a chamber pot. And, of course, he didn't keep his little joke private. The Queen was particularly affronted by it, because Sir Lant used to be her most loyal comrade-in-arms. I was there receiving an assignment from Her Majesty and witnessed the exact moment she found out about the helmet's fate. It's a small thing... but I could see the Queen's anguish at the travesty that had been made of her friend's legacy. That's what our Count is like as a person. And as for his talent for survival… Do you know the story of Heaven's Edge? He was the only member of his family to escape with his life when the demons unleashed a magical plague at the Arendae estate." "Could you tell me more about the events at Heaven's Edge?" "I don't know all the details. It happened a while ago, back when I was a mercenary and had nothing to do with Kenabres. I only know that there was a grand feast in honor of Daeran's birthday, and all his relatives were invited along with a few other distinguished guests. Everyone died from a mysterious disease someone had unleashed on the estate, including the servants, the guards, and a number of clerics and paladins. But the young count survived — because of his healing ability, I suppose. Daeran does possess an unusually brilliant talent, even if the application of his skills... leaves much to be desired." (Irabeth scowls.) "Why is he trying to provoke the Queen?" "Who knows? It could be some family matter. The Count is Her Majesty's cousin twice removed or something like that. But I think he simply enjoys infuriating people. Crusaders and Iomedae's servants especially." "Thank you for telling me all this."I genuinely do not understand how anyone could like Daeran. Maybe it's just because I'm not into dudes?  "Yes, thank you. It's good to have her back — we need every fighter we can get." (Irabeth frowns.) "I suppose it's asking too much to want fighters that are sober as well." "The Tower of Estrod has been cleared of demons." "Great. The places where the demons have gathered need to be cleared one by one. Then they won't be able to stab us in the back when we take on the Gray Garrison. Thank you for your service!"That's that batch of sidequests resolved or taken to the next leg.  For now, this is the resting interface. When resting in a safe hub like this, there's no need for the camp defense duties. But if you have characters with the requisite feats, skills, and equipment, you can assign people to make scrolls, potions, and meals for various bonuses. I just vendored everything so nothing doing. Next time, probably more sidequests. The Crimson Path (this update) Bandits 2 Cultist 5 Giant Fly 1 Giant Spiders 3 Mimics 2 Schirs 3 Succubus 1 Vermelek 1
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 15:59
|
|
|
I don't know if I'd go so far as to say I *like* Daeran, but I do find his awfulness amusing- he'd be totally insufferable IRL, but as a character he's equal-opportunity rear end in a top hat and doesn't mind when people push back at him which keeps him on the right side of the insufferable line. That said, I also really, really do not like Queen Galfrey at all for reasons that will come up later, and being one of the few people to be willing to talk smack about her is a big part of why he works for me.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 16:13
|
|
|
I don't really want to spoil anything, but in Daeran's defence, he does have a reason for acting the way he does. There are places in much later acts where I argue his 'actual' alignment (as opposed to the alignment his actions have given him) show through, and dismissing him as merely a dick not only misses the point of him, but I'd also argue plays into his own plans. I find it kind of refreshing, in a way-after all, it's not every day a computer game character plays the player If anything, I strongly suggest turning on the Toybox option that allows absent party members to chime in on conversations, especially if you're looking to showcase as much content as possible. EDIT: IIRC he's definitely a patriot, and can get pretty heated about his homeland if you ask him about it, but it's been a while since I played the game. gently caress, I'mma have to reinstall this, aren't I? EDIT 2: Leaving this up because I'm an idiot and everyone needs to see that, but for anyone reading this in the future, I was wrong about Daeran, he's an absolutely garbage person whose garbage past does not excuse his current garbage actions (and that is a principle that applies IRL as well). CommissarMega fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Mar 12, 2024 |
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 18:11
|
|
|
No. I know full well why Daeran acts the way he does, and in my opinion it does not excuse his actions in the slightest. Call it him playing me if you wish, I don't give a drat about him or his backstory and what's going on with him.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 18:18
|
|
|
Daeran’s great and one of the most memorable and well written party members. He’s got a decent amount of depth to him, he gets along with Ember, and he’s got a good back and forth with most of the party as he can take people dunking on him as well without being insufferable about it. Being anti-Galfrey is also a strong plus for him. Him and Ember are probably the characters I’ve brought with me the most on my runs.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 18:18
|
|
|
Yeah, he would definitely be unpleasant IRL, but he honestly does have a wicked sense of humor that I found entertaining. Being a gadfly relative of the crusading Queen is interesting enough, but the game isn't too precious with him and lets both NPCs and PCs get things over on him. Also, he is a surprisingly good sport about being on the butt end of a joke, too, so his selfish
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 18:23
|
|
|
Cythereal is in her right to show the game the way she wants, it's her LP after all. That being said, and it might be pedantic, for all things I've checked out Daeran is absolutely in the Yes category for "Can I Fix Him" and you don't even need to romance him. He's just one of the hardest characters to fix cause it takes a shitton of choices (including one where you must do one of two choices or you won't get his best ending) and it only gets reflected in the endgame and ending. So basically you have to really believe in the power of redemption when dear Camellia is screaming about blood nex to to you
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 18:31
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:No. I know full well why Daeran acts the way he does, and in my opinion it does not excuse his actions in the slightest. Call it him playing me if you wish, I don't give a drat about him or his backstory and what's going on with him. Fair enough; I'm just saying that if your response is to not care about him, it's what he wants. V VGiantRockFromSpace posted:So basically you have to really believe in the power of redemption when dear Camellia is screaming about blood nex to to you Bold of you to assume anyone outside Khornate cultists would want CamCam in their party by then
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 18:35
|
|
|
Succubi are lust demons in the shape of beautiful women, if you didn’t know that already. They have red skin, bat wings, horns, and claws to give away their origins. They function well as seducers or rapists depending on their mood. Beware their compelling gaze, level draining touch, and tendency to be surrounded by enthralled minions. The male equivalent we’ll see sooner or later is the incubus. Like others have said, Daeran will change at the end if you believe in the possibility of his redemption. I do understand the choice not to believe in him, though. Personally I’m ok making fun of the guy and appreciate his skills as a healer. Most LPs I’ve seen go the route of “I’m amused by Daeran and will support him” route. Should be interesting to see one that does the opposite. As far as his humor, I have laughed at his jokes at times but find other companions more memorable in various ways.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 20:20
|
|
|
Daeren ultimately presents an important note that a lot of "redemption" storylines skip over - few people want to be bettered, and some are annoying about it. If you only try to help the easy cases, you're going to be missing a whole lot of other people you can help.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 20:22
|
|
|
Yeah Daeran can for sure be fixed. And before the actual fixing as you adventure with him, it becomes clear he's not nearly as awful as he tries to present.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 20:29
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:Daeren ultimately presents an important note that a lot of "redemption" storylines skip over - few people want to be bettered, and some are annoying about it. If you only try to help the easy cases, you're going to be missing a whole lot of other people you can help. Contrariwise, in my eyes redemption starts with wanting to be better. Yes, you can drag Daeran kicking and screaming into becoming a somewhat better person. I am not sufficiently invested in Daeran as a character to do so. In any event, this is a video game and I despise Daeran and probably will not complete his quest because I do not want to spend any more time with him than I have to. This is not up for debate.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 20:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 21:18 |
|
|
Your preference not to engage more with Daeran than you feel you have to for the sake of the LP is one thousand percent valid, but I'll argue many of the people in need of help and redemption are the ones who are the very last to realize it. There are plenty of addicts who will kill themselves in service of their addiction before getting help. Of course this is a tough pitch to make regarding Daeran, who is the epitome of an affluenza-having out of touch rich piece of poo poo on first, second, and even third glance.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2024 20:35
|
|
