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bull3964 posted:I'm sooooooooo loving tired of people blaming continuity as to why we can't keep moving forward. Star Trek isn't even that heavy in continuity for the setting. It is for certain characters, but that's why we move on to new characters and settings. It's never been that Trek couldn't move forward, it was always that the showrunners kept deciding not to move forward, which exaggerated the relative difficulty or awkwardness as they continued to drag their heels with increasingly weirder prequels.
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Mar 10, 2024 16:29
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"How did we get here" is a fine idea for an episode — maybe even a season — of something, but it will always pale in comparison to "where are we going."
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Mar 11, 2024 00:26
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LividLiquid posted:"How did we get here" is a fine idea for an episode — maybe even a season — of something, but it will always pale in comparison to "where are we going." yeah honestly the best LD episodes in a lot of ways are the ones that move the series forward, even if it's just doing "second contact" on some planet from an old episode of TNG. like the character writing and jokes are aces as usual but it's the stuff that expands Star Trek and shows us new things that's the most interesting.
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Mar 11, 2024 00:34
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I feel the best solution would've making a show set in the 26th century with a new ship and crew and going from there.
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Mar 11, 2024 00:46
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TuxedoOrca posted:I feel the best solution would've making a show set in the 26th century with a new ship and crew and going from there. Every few series, there should be a mandatory minimum 100 year time jump. It was the smartest thing TNG did. I get the temptation to revisit old characters and plot threads, but it ends up being a trap more often than not.
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Mar 11, 2024 01:17
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Thanks for reminding me I still have two storage units full of my dad's trash to deal with. 
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Mar 11, 2024 02:56
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A.o.D. posted:SNW is also dipping into New Wave (60s and 70s) science fiction literature, which would be contemporary with TOS era writing. In some episodes TOS arguably is New Wave. City on the Edge of Forever being written by the Dangerous Visions guy and all.
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Mar 11, 2024 04:22
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Kesper North posted:In some episodes TOS arguably is New Wave. City on the Edge of Forever being written by the Dangerous Visions guy and all. Yes, but it's television, not literature. I was referencing how SNW did an Omelas story.
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Mar 11, 2024 04:49
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I watched "Strategem" last night and while I can acknowledge it's a decent piece of television, it's a lovely episode of Star Trek. Archer is still torturing prisoners, I don't care if it's not waterboarding. Manipulating a memories, lying to him about a civil war and genocide, and using his family as leverage for information is torture even if you're pretending to be the guy's friend. It's super hosed up what they've tried to justify this season. It's also made me hate Phlox who is way to ready to violate medical ethics to help Starfleet. Hopefully when we drop this nonsense in season 4 he just goes back to being more of a mad scientist and not loving Goebbels.
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Mar 11, 2024 05:01
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I just want another show where the crew randomly stumbles across some omnipotent reality-bending being, talk the being down from their latest moral crisis with clever tricks or kind empathy or whatever, say “huh that was weird” and move on with their lives without ever acknowledging they basically just met god, then do the same thing again next week, is that too much to ask?
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Mar 11, 2024 05:36
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Thaddius the Large posted:I just want another show where the crew randomly stumbles across some omnipotent reality-bending being, talk the being down from their latest moral crisis with clever tricks or kind empathy or whatever, say “huh that was weird” and move on with their lives without ever acknowledging they basically just met god, then do the same thing again next week, is that too much to ask? That’s original Law & Order. The godlike being is named “Jury” or sometimes “Judge” but it’s always different despite having the same names again and again.
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Mar 11, 2024 05:39
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:When are you folks gonna be honest with yourselves and admit straight-up that you just want DS9-2? I BEEN sayin' it.
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Mar 11, 2024 06:39
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Thaddius the Large posted:I just want another show where the crew randomly stumbles across some omnipotent reality-bending being, talk the being down from their latest moral crisis with clever tricks or kind empathy or whatever, say “huh that was weird” and move on with their lives without ever acknowledging they basically just met god, then do the same thing again next week, is that too much to ask? What would acknowledging “basically just met god” look like in the context of having done so multiple times in the show, and specifically how would you want it to inform future such episodes?
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Mar 11, 2024 06:45
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I don't want a DS9 v2 so much as I want a resurrection of Space: Above and Beyond or Exosquad. Any post-DS9 series i want would probably involve something like a explorer/diplomatic ship operating in the Gamma Quadrant conducting outreach to the various subject races that i assume have either thrown off the yoke of the Dominion while monitoring the current state of Dominion affairs. You get a hero ship traveling the galaxy, new forehead aliens, you don't need to touch on continuity too much and you can have that TNG mix of "something new and mysterious at the edge of our understanding" and "we're on a mission to help the people of Apraxia-9 with a disease that our computer's have identified as 'Riker's Rash'".
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Mar 11, 2024 13:34
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I just want an exploration ship around the mid 25th century with a bunch of crew that bear no relation to anyone you've ever heard of.
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Mar 11, 2024 13:40
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MikeJF posted:I just want an exploration ship around the mid 25th century with a bunch of crew that bear no relation to anyone you've ever heard of. Not to derail, but literally why the Orville worked so well. It was blatant Trek without being tied to Trek
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Mar 11, 2024 14:08
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Atlas Hugged posted:I watched "Strategem" last night and while I can acknowledge it's a decent piece of television, it's a lovely episode of Star Trek. Good news - "Strategem" is basically the low point of Season 3's "everybody - but especially Archer - sucks". There will begin to be consequences from here on out.
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Mar 11, 2024 14:09
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:What would acknowledging “basically just met god” look like in the context of having done so multiple times in the show, and specifically how would you want it to inform future such episodes? I wasn’t being ironic at all, I’ve admittedly not watched the last few seasons of Discovery but I don’t see us getting a Trelane or Kevin Uxbridge from the general tone or tenor of what I did see, which is one of the reasons I’m less a fan of that series. I want more inexplicably weird allegorical stories in my Star Trek!
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Mar 11, 2024 15:21
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Thaddius the Large posted:I wasn’t being ironic at all, I’ve admittedly not watched the last few seasons of Discovery but I don’t see us getting a Trelane or Kevin Uxbridge from the general tone or tenor of what I did see, which is one of the reasons I’m less a fan of that series. I want more inexplicably weird allegorical stories in my Star Trek!
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Mar 11, 2024 19:34
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Have we ever seen a Vulcan neck pinch another Vulcan? Or a Romulan neck pinching someone?
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Mar 11, 2024 19:36
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You'd probably need both hands to neck pinch a Cardassian.
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Mar 11, 2024 19:52
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*Replacing Soundgarden's Spoonman with racist spoonhead lyrics*
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Mar 11, 2024 20:01
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Thaddius the Large posted:I wasn’t being ironic at all, I’ve admittedly not watched the last few seasons of Discovery but I don’t see us getting a Trelane or Kevin Uxbridge from the general tone or tenor of what I did see, which is one of the reasons I’m less a fan of that series. I want more inexplicably weird allegorical stories in my Star Trek! Season 3's climax revolved around what was essentially a magic space child's tantrum, and the stuff in Season 4 where they're having philosophical discussions about how to communicate with something that seems physiologically incapable of recognizing your sapience and convincingly ask them to stop erasing your planets has some echoes of "we have no law to fit your crime", so I think they're at least aware of those aspects of Star Trek, they just aren't really delivering on them in a satisfying way
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Mar 11, 2024 20:03
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I wouldn't mind a "putting the band back together" type show like Season 3 seemed like it was going to do at first I realize that would have basically been Star Control 2 with more bridge crew
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Mar 11, 2024 20:50
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Dog_Meat posted:Not to derail, but literally why the Orville worked so well. It was blatant Trek without being tied to Trek The Orville nailed the "we're kind of structured like a military but we're mostly civilian explorers who just want to find neat new stuff in space and make friends" vibe that Star Fleet never really pulled off too. They sure did drink a lot though.
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Mar 11, 2024 20:57
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counterfeitsaint posted:The Orville nailed the "we're kind of structured like a military but we're mostly civilian explorers who just want to find neat new stuff in space and make friends" vibe that Star Fleet never really pulled off too. They sure did drink a lot though. The Orville was crewed by actual humans instead of Trek's 24th century perfect ideal beings.
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Mar 11, 2024 22:28
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The week of February 7th, 1998 was a good week for Star Trek because it was the week of DS9's "Far Beyond the Stars" episode. Before I marathoned DS9, this was the only episode I had seen and after I had finished it I figured I might not watch the show since it was all downhill from that apex. Turns out that DS9 is pretty great all around but it's an excellent and potent episode all the same. Now that I am more familiar with the series, it was cool to see a lot of human counterparts to the characters. I don't think a lot of the emotional context was lost when I saw it without knowing the larger story of DS9. I typically don't like stories that insinuate that they are just figments of someone's imagination but I found this take on it to be whimsical and human compared to something like that one episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer that was pointlessly bleak. Now, coming off of that episode, I was sure that Voyager was going to pale heavily in comparison but honestly, "Hunters" was a great episode. It focuses on Voyager being four years out from the Alpha Quadrant and the crewmembers receiving letters from their loved ones. The episode could have been saccharine but instead it's pretty rough because a lot of the main cast members receive bad news. B'Elanna and Chakotay finding out that the Maquis were wiped out and all the stuff with the Dominion: it's a harsh bringing up-to-date that was going to happen no matter how Voyager got word from the Alpha Quadrant. There's a good moment with Paris and B'Elanna are in the communications room and Paris outright says that he prefers his life of Voyager and doesn't like to think about his life back home. One of the best Voyager episodes in awhile.
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Mar 12, 2024 02:35
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MikeJF posted:I just want an exploration ship around the mid 25th century with a bunch of crew that bear no relation to anyone you've ever heard of. take us to the far reaches of the beta quadrant tell us about how the klingon empire actually works, do some colonialism stuff explore what it means to actually be part of the federation There's lots of bits they could do that use the setting but they just don't bother because it's time for more prequels
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Mar 12, 2024 03:29
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Taear posted:take us to the far reaches of the beta quadrant But there's still 6 months of Spock's life we haven't explored yet, plus maybe he had a cousin or something. You remember Spock don't you? Spock is a thing you know from Star Trek. Watch a new series to learn more about Spock.
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Mar 12, 2024 03:34
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Put Spock's children on the new ship! Oh, you didn't know he was a father? Now you do! Who's the mother? It's Sela?
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Mar 12, 2024 03:39
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FISHMANPET posted:Put Spock's children on the new ship! Oh, you didn't know he was a father? Now you do! Who's the mother? It's Sela? If it's not Kirk there will be a riot at the old folks home.
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Mar 12, 2024 03:40
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counterfeitsaint posted:But there's still 6 months of Spock's life we haven't explored yet, plus maybe he had a cousin or something. You remember Spock don't you? Spock is a thing you know from Star Trek. Watch a new series to learn more about Spock. It's been said loads in both threads but it's pretty mad that the laser focus aim of the new star treks (not LDS) is at boomers. Sure I grew up watching the films but Star Trek to me really is TNG/DS9/VOY and I bet that applies to absolutely loads of millenials and zoomers who are way more likely to be watching your show than boomers who have lost touch with what's on TV and how to watch new stuff
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Mar 12, 2024 03:47
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counterfeitsaint posted:If it's not Kirk there will be a riot at the old folks home. Both Sondra Marshak and Myrna Culbreath are still alive, so this might actually happen.
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Mar 12, 2024 04:23
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Taear posted:It's been said loads in both threads but it's pretty mad that the laser focus aim of the new star treks (not LDS) is at boomers. Sure I grew up watching the films but Star Trek to me really is TNG/DS9/VOY and I bet that applies to absolutely loads of millenials and zoomers who are way more likely to be watching your show than boomers who have lost touch with what's on TV and how to watch new stuff Can't say I agree with that. One of the off putting things about STD (besides the writing) is the fact that most of the characters are all clearly written to be relatable to zoomers. TNG era crews were professionals. They were working adults who were good at their jobs and got poo poo done. NuTrek era crews are all 20 somethings who are constantly overwhelmed and somewhere between the verge of an anxiety attack and just a straight up ugly-crying-on-the-job melt down. They're more interested and talking about their traumas with their found family than they are getting anything done. Zoomers, basically. There's one or two older people who are mostly there to be reassuring mentors and tell the kids what a good job their doing. I haven't watched SNW but every clip and trailer I've seen strongly suggests it's the same way. Ironically LDS, where this actually matches the premise, seems to dial it back to much more tolerable levels.
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Mar 12, 2024 04:48
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The crew on SNW has it together much better than the Discovery people There are still moments where they have issues but it’s mostly plot related
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Mar 12, 2024 05:02
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counterfeitsaint posted:Can't say I agree with that. Strange New Worlds is the anti-Discovery in basically every regard you've laid out in your complaint. It's very much a show that shares TNG's Big Dick Energy Competence Porn feel; a show about competent people handling challenging situations with skill and aplomb and having a lot of fun while doing so. It is night and day the contrast between Discovery and Strange New Worlds and to not watch the latter because it spun off from the former is doing yourself an immense disservice. FlamingLiberal posted:The crew on SNW has it together much better than the Discovery people Yeah, when someone on SNW loses their poo poo, it's because plot stuff is happening like it did on TNG, compared to someone on Disco breaking down in the weepies because a space squid farted outside the window and they just can't handle all the beautiful feels. nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Mar 12, 2024 |
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Mar 12, 2024 05:07
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Yeah, the crew on SNW show real professionalism and skill when they murder alien babies.
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Mar 12, 2024 05:10
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Even Picard the one that stars an 80 year old didn't start out as boomer bait, it was a Picard in his twilight putting together a new young crew around him except they're all hot messes in one way or another, whether through being people who can't find their place in the world or ones whose lives had been derailed by their traumas
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Mar 12, 2024 05:14
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Seemlar posted:Even Picard the one that stars an 80 year old didn't start out as boomer bait, it was a Picard in his twilight putting together a new young crew around him except they're all hot messes in one way or another, whether through being people who can't find their place in the world or ones whose lives had been derailed by their traumas Man, could you imagine if Picard was a show about a Starfleet legend returning to the field for one big last personal mission, being forced to scrape together a crew of broken misfits and moulding them into something that strongly resembles a Starfleet-calibre along the way through the power of their inspiring presence and experience--oh poo poo, sorry I was describing Star Trek: Prodigy lol
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Mar 12, 2024 05:18
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nine-gear crow posted:Strange New Worlds is the anti-Discovery in basically every regard you've laid out in your complaint. It's very much a show that shares TNG's Big Dick Energy Competence Porn feel; a show about competent people handling challenging situations with skill and aplomb and having a lot of fun while doing so. It is night and day the contrast between Discovery and Strange New Worlds and to not watch the latter because it spun off from the former is doing yourself an immense disservice. It's night and day when compared to Discovery but I don't know that I'd call it quite TNG style competence porn. SNW is still very much a bunch of people forming a found family to get help over their many background traumas. (And then there's Ortegas)
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Mar 12, 2024 05:27
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