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Scarabrae posted:I wonder if how I feel is how Foundation book nerds feel about the Apple TV series I have read only the first book of the Foundation series - it was an unashamed, unabashed love letter to science and scientists. I have watched only the first season of Foundation - it is an expensive waste of good actors that uses a lot of computer to display future tech.
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Mar 12, 2024 00:42
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Just saw it for the second time and it was twice as good as the first time e: I want to learn to speak the Fremen language l, as people do with Klingon MrMojok fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Mar 12, 2024 |
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Mar 12, 2024 00:46
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uber_stoat posted:Future KH: "to ensure... the future of humanity... you must become... a DICKLESS WORM." Well sure not a REAL dick but Leto II had a god-level idea to maybe put a little fake one on there to mess with people.
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Mar 12, 2024 02:35
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Anonymous Zebra posted:He's permanently maimed by the gas tooth. That's why he is always bathing in oil or needs the medical drones hooked up to him. He was doing that before, but yeah, I think the idea is that he'd deliberately neglected his health because he could up to them, but barely survives the poison and then needs all that help for real.
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Mar 12, 2024 03:04
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He def had health problems before the gas c'mon
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Mar 12, 2024 03:12
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NmareBfly posted:Does it? And more to the point, how does it play in a movie? Like, the hero of these 3 movies wanders off blind into the dunes is a super bummer ending for movie audiences. I don't have an issue with it myself in particular but does it pass the sniff test for execs? I think it depends on how it's set up. We've already seen that the main moral tension in the films is between Paul wielding the Fremen as a tool vs. the Fremen liberating themselves. Paul wandering off and essentially handing the Fremen control of their own destinies could work as a redemptive arc for him and a relatively upbeat ending for general audiences, if it's explained properly.
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Mar 12, 2024 03:15
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Eason the Fifth posted:Thinking about it now I'd put Dune 1/2 in a league with The Shining, in that the movie interpretation hyper-focuses on a single theme and removes much of the story irrelevant to serving that theme. Kubrick's Shining takes out the Torrances' complexity to serve the horror of the Overlook. Villeneuve's Dune cuts out a lot of the incidental characterization between e.g. Jessica/Gurney/Duncan to focus on the horror of a messiah. In poorer hands, reducing character to cliffs notes absolutely kills stories (like the back half of Game of Thrones), and I think the back part of Dune 2 flirts with that, but like The Shining, the vibe of the movie is enough to carry it through the worst of the changes. The thing is about taking liberties with adaptations is that it can very much work IF you have a clear vision and you recognise what you're doing, and actually do a good job at it also. Bad adaptations are very rarely because they're TOO faithful, and often because they change poo poo that didn't need changing and leaves holes in the narrative without anything to replace it.
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Mar 12, 2024 03:17
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sean10mm posted:Yeah, the later books really show Paul's powers as having limitations and ways for others to gently caress with them. Plus he can't cope with what they seem to tell him he has to do. I haven't made it this far in the books yet but isn't there a thing with Leto II that, because he can access both sides of generic memory plus whatever else the spice does to him besides wormifying him, he's not really a person anymore so much as a gestalt of a bunch of different personalities including some crazy ancient leaders of different human civilizations? Or is that just some fan theorizing? Because if it's true to any extent then the whole aspect of "hey maybe this giant worm guy isn't exactly on the level with his grandiose plan to abuse humans into eternal survival on a galactic scale" becomes way more plausible.
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Mar 12, 2024 03:23
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Mat Cauthon posted:I haven't made it this far in the books yet but isn't there a thing with Leto II that, because he can access both sides of generic memory plus whatever else the spice does to him besides wormifying him, he's not really a person anymore so much as a gestalt of a bunch of different personalities including some crazy ancient leaders of different human civilizations? Or is that just some fan theorizing? He is that but also he's explicitly still a real person besides that because But yes, Leto II is almost certainly not on the level, although to what degree and to what end is debatable. Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Mar 12, 2024 |
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Mar 12, 2024 03:39
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Leto II owns up to having an ancient king “possessing” him (to a lesser degree than the Baron Harkonnen possesses Alia) right at the tail end of Children. He’s mostly able to preserve his sense of self because of his inner father’s presence, but being pre-born as he was meant it was impossible to be fully himself. This is stated out loud just after he demonstrates that he can take on the entire universe in hand to hand combat, so there’s nothing anyone can do about it.
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Mar 12, 2024 03:46
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The thing is about taking liberties with adaptations is that it can very much work IF you have a clear vision and you recognise what you're doing, and actually do a good job at it also. Bad adaptations are very rarely because they're TOO faithful, and often because they change poo poo that didn't need changing and leaves holes in the narrative without anything to replace it. One example from the first movie that seems like a minor change but ends up destroying the whole logic of the scene: the harvester scene. In the book, the carryall fails to show up due to Harkonnen interference. So as the worm draws closer, the men do not want to abandon the spice because they believe there is still a chance the carryall might show up. They have to be urged to leave by Leto, showing his character as a leader who values his men's lives over profit. In the movie, the carryall arrives but has a malfunction so that it can't carry the harvester. So when the men say they want to stay it makes no sense; the spice is lost and there is no reason to risk their lives over it. This makes Leto's decision to save them not heroic but simply practical good sense. (Also, they forgot that they said at the beginning of the movie that the harvesters only work at night, when it is cool.)
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Mar 12, 2024 04:17
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MrMojok posted:Just saw it for the second time and it was twice as good as the first time Or you could learn that chant-dance thing the Harkonnen commoners do at the gladiator arena. Somehow more unsettling than the Sardaukar throat soloist. Monica Bellucci posted:I have read only the first book of the Foundation series - it was an unashamed, unabashed love letter to science and scientists. Would you say the tv show strayed from the foundation of the books?
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Mar 12, 2024 04:20
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Illmade posted:One example from the first movie that seems like a minor change but ends up destroying the whole logic of the scene: the harvester scene. I kinda felt this about Cucked Chani tm, which was a minor plot hole in the book solved by the final line and just blown wide open in the movie. He's around Chani all the time, just tell her for political power you have to marry someone you won't touch. "I'll love you as long as I live" + that move in front of everyone would make anyone pissed. Illmade posted:(Also, they forgot that they said at the beginning of the movie that the harvesters only work at night, when it is cool.) I'm prob getting into semantics and you want to punch me but it could both me true that harvesters only work at night (because that's when we choose to use them safely) and by the sequel, desperation is causing pressure. But I don't remember how it was explained in the first movie.
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Mar 12, 2024 04:27
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Scags McDouglas posted:I'm prob getting into semantics and you want to punch me but it could both me true that harvesters only work at night (because that's when we choose to use them safely) and by the sequel, desperation is causing pressure. But I don't remember how it was explained in the first movie. I was referring to the harvester scene from the first movie, but yes, now that you mention it all of the harvesters in the second movie were working during the day too, which is bull-donkey. The funny thing is that the harvesting at night thing isn't even in the books: it's a detail they added, and it's great and makes total sense. Then they just forget about it!
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Mar 12, 2024 04:34
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She says they would land the harvesters at night to avoid the heat of the day. I can buy that the Sietch Tabr 200 and other groups have caused so many problems that it’s affecting the galactic spice trade, so in desperation the Harks are running them during the day and night now and just eating the losses. Of course, the Atreides are running them during the day during their brief time in control before that.
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Mar 12, 2024 04:58
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During the worm scene Kynes says that it's still early morning and the full heat of the day hasn't begun. The harvester says it has a nearly full load of spice, so presumably it's the end of the shift.
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Mar 12, 2024 05:03
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Ah, good catch!
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Mar 12, 2024 06:27
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Scags McDouglas posted:I kinda felt this about Cucked Chani tm, which was a minor plot hole in the book solved by the final line and just blown wide open in the movie. He's around Chani all the time, just tell her for political power you have to marry someone you won't touch. "I'll love you as long as I live" + that move in front of everyone would make anyone pissed. I don't think that's something that happens in isolation though - going South, taking the Water, the power grab at the War Council and exploiting the Lisan al Gaib prophecy, they're all gradual breakings of his promises to her and the marriage thing is just the final straw. With the way her character is built up, her just accepting his word alone at that point I don't think would be very fitting. In the book it also takes Jessica backing up Paul and comparing it to her own situation, which definitely isn't happening in the movie.
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Mar 12, 2024 06:46
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Like I'm going to be honest, I love Dune and have read it countless times in my life, and I consider it to be a really important book in my development of my love for sci-fi, but most of the characters in the first book are really flat and emotionless individuals. I can't remember if it was this thread or one of the other Dune threads that referred to most of the characters as "stoic weirdos", but many of them really are just plot elements that don't respond to events in the way that any human being would. This became really apparent when I listened to the audio book in 2016 with my wife (her first time ever "reading" the book) and after the final chapter she said that Herbert was a very evocative writer in his description of events and setting, but that she doubts he ever really talked to a woman in his life. Chani is a non-character in the books. Like most of the Fremen, she is portrayed as this "hard person, from a hard world" and never responds to anything with any degree of emotion. Someone here joked that her kid with Paul literally gets murdered and he is like, "Chill, we'll have more" and she just kind of rolls with it. The changes Denis made to the Fremen were excellent. They became a fully realized society that Paul actually had to work his way into and ultimately subvert, and Chani in particular was a welcome change from the source. Because, no, the woman that spends the most time with Paul and sees that most of his "miracles" are a result of him studiously watching YouTube tutorials before coming to Arakis, him just being smart and intuitive about how to respond to challenges, and him being directly taught by Chani would not ever buy into his bullshit and especially would not swallow that poo poo pill at the end with the political marriage. It's all really, good. It's a really good movie. Also, calling it now. Chani is already pregnant with the kid, and the after effects of that will be in the final movie.
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Mar 12, 2024 07:15
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 Behold, your future Emperor, Fade-Rautha Harkonnen Anonymous Zebra posted:the woman that spends the most time with Paul and sees that most of his "miracles" are a result of him studiously watching YouTube tutorials before coming to Arakis I never thought of it like that. That's hilarious. And then he begins explaining sand-walking to Chani (for only a second or two, at least...) Tree Bucket fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Mar 12, 2024 |
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Mar 12, 2024 09:52
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Yeah I think the ending to part 3 will be Paul walking off into the desert, portrayed as a noble sacrifice to save the galaxy, with Chani ruling a Dune that is in charge of its own destiny and his sister helping free the other planets or some such.
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Mar 12, 2024 10:07
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Anonymous Zebra posted:. I believe so too. Doesn't feel like Denis would have bothered giving them an explicitly post-coital conversation otherwise. (Explicit in the sense of being directly shown rather than sexually explicit)
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Mar 12, 2024 10:11
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Bugblatter posted:During the worm scene Kynes says that it's still early morning and the full heat of the day hasn't begun. The harvester says it has a nearly full load of spice, so presumably it's the end of the shift. Isn’t there also an awesome night battle scene where the fremen take down a harvester? Or is that just a Hark patrol? Also when it comes to disrupting the spice trade, it seems like with lasers it would be way too easy to destroy every harvester on the planet in minutes?
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Mar 12, 2024 10:15
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Red Rox posted:Isn’t there also an awesome night battle scene where the fremen take down a harvester? Or is that just a Hark patrol? Seems like the harvesters are swarmed by shielded 'thopters, the raid where Chani bazookas the 'thopter it's clear they're waiting for that to happen before lasering the harvester into oblivion
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Mar 12, 2024 10:17
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Yeah makes sense. You’d think lasers would be even more banned than the use of house atomics.
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Mar 12, 2024 10:19
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It's one of the more contrived part of the books so I'm glad DV didn't focus on it much
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Mar 12, 2024 10:29
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I did wonder why the Harvesters werent shielded as well. But then I remembered sandworms dont very much like shields.
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Mar 12, 2024 11:23
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Red Rox posted:Yeah makes sense. You’d think lasers would be even more banned than the use of house atomics. I think the deal basically is it's not worth it, because the reaction is incredibly unpredictable and lasguns are finnicky and expensive (and I think shields aren't the cheapest either) especially on a planet full of sand, so despite the potentiality it's probably not the hardest to figure out if an explosion was a reaction or an actual nuke in context. People still carry and use them just in case, and their sheer cutting power probably makes them very useful outside of combat for obvious reasons. (and against things like peasant uprisings) When towards the end given they're shooting two at once I imagine the Fremen have gotten more cocky, and more familiar with Ornithopter attack patterns, as the Harkonnens have gotten more desperate.
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Mar 12, 2024 14:24
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Ghost Leviathan posted:When towards the end given they're shooting two at once I imagine the Fremen have gotten more cocky, and more familiar with Ornithopter attack patterns, as the Harkonnens have gotten more desperate. another thing to consider is that the crossed laser attack looks badass as gently caress.
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Mar 12, 2024 16:53
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That first battle scene in the opening of the new film. After the Harks climb onto the rocky outcropping, the first one who gets shot, is hit on the back/side of the head. Was that meant to be a projectile from a maula pistol? I don’t remember the lasgun sound or a beam, but I also don’t remember ever seeing a maula pistol in either film.
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Mar 12, 2024 16:53
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Tree Bucket posted:Would you say the tv show strayed from the foundation of the books? Strayed implies any sort of willingness to follow the same path.
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Mar 12, 2024 17:08
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MrMojok posted:That first battle scene in the opening of the new film. Stilgar pulls out and checks his maula pistol right before they scramble off to set the ambush. In the scene after the battle, he's reloading it.
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Mar 12, 2024 17:20
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Ah, thank you! I figured I’d just missed one. This means of course it’s time for me to go see it again.
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Mar 12, 2024 17:49
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Having slept on DUNE II my main note is that the OG Dune should've been adapted as a trilogy of 2.5 hour movies instead of two 3 hour movies. You really need some time skips to make things feel like they're happening at a realistic place. You could've had the second being all about Paul becoming Fremen but rejecting the prophecy until his son dies, the Harkonnen attacks become more brutal, and he realizes he cannot keep his family safe without exterminating his enemies. Everything would've flowed better.
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Mar 12, 2024 17:52
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MrMojok posted:That first battle scene in the opening of the new film. Paul takes a maula pistol off one of the Fremen at their first encounter, then reluctantly surrenders it to Stilgar who says "you'll have your own maula pistol when you earn it"
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Mar 12, 2024 18:22
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Gaius Marius posted:Having slept on DUNE II my main note is that the OG Dune should've been adapted as a trilogy of 2.5 hour movies instead of two 3 hour movies. You really need some time skips to make things feel like they're happening at a realistic place. You could've had the second being all about Paul becoming Fremen but rejecting the prophecy until his son dies, the Harkonnen attacks become more brutal, and he realizes he cannot keep his family safe without exterminating his enemies. Everything would've flowed better. Oh you ain't getting an argument from this man. I think there simply should have been enough time allotted no matter how much it was. Thufir was the biggest loss, but I think his manipulating the Baron is tough to render on the big screen since it's all thought-based. I also would have liked to see the part in the book where skeptical Fremen emissaries keep showing up to fight Paul to the death, and his effortless ability to kill them is still so time consuming that Chani starts tagging in. Also this wasn't in the first book much but I wouldn't have complained to see a guild navigator or two and more detail of the space folding.
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Mar 12, 2024 18:26
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Scags McDouglas posted:Thufir was the biggest loss, but I think his manipulating the Baron is tough to render on the big screen since it's all thought-based. I also would have liked to see the part in the book where skeptical Fremen emissaries keep showing up to fight Paul to the death, and his effortless ability to kill them is still so time consuming that Chani starts tagging in. Nah, Thufir conspired with all the Harkonnens against all the other Harkonnens and everybody else. Just sprinkle three scenes that are basically the same but visually different throughout the movie and have it be a different Harkonnen each time. Ten minutes or less in Toto.
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Mar 12, 2024 18:31
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Monica Bellucci posted:Ten minutes or less in Toto. How much is that when converted to Hans Zimmer?
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Mar 12, 2024 18:33
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I only just saw a thing with Hans Zimmer in it last night. I never knew he previously represented the Barksdale gang legally.
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Mar 12, 2024 18:35
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Failed Imagineer posted:Paul takes a maula pistol off one of the Fremen at their first encounter, then reluctantly surrenders it to Stilgar who says "you'll have your own maula pistol when you earn it" Oh poo poo, you’re right. Time to watch that one again too.
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Mar 12, 2024 18:37
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