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its very dumb you can put like most of a clip of the autocannon into the chargers butt and it doesnt die
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Mar 12, 2024 11:49
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Eediot Jedi posted:When the ceo & head of testing played with a youtuber, they said the same thing, and I wondered the same thing. I imagine they always played in actual coordinated teams, like there was always a recoiless team to hose them down. someone here was like "duh the devs can beat their own game at the highest diff unlike YOU loving scrubs" and lmao
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Mar 12, 2024 11:51
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Yeah, in HD1 you could shoot them with a rocket from any angle, the butt was vulnerable to small arms and a reward for dodging the charge. As of now they require AT to take down which isn't necessarily a bad change but keeping the glowing butt as a noob trap is perplexing.
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Mar 12, 2024 11:51
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raverrn posted:Very confused that the leg-shot against Chargers was not the intended method of killing them. Internally did the team just blow two recoilless / EAT shots against every Charger? Now I'm real curious to see them completing higher level missions. It's quite likely if we were to watch them do a 7+ we'd all go "wtf are they doing?" because it's just.... that was the effective way to play for lots of the time during dev and they'll have coalesced around that, learning from each other. They literally learnt to play a different game that just looks incredibly similar.
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Mar 12, 2024 11:52
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Spookydonut posted:its very dumb you can put like most of a clip of the autocannon into the chargers butt and it doesnt die  1-2 rounds should be all it takes to make big bug butts go boom
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Mar 12, 2024 11:56
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So many times I took off the rear end of a charger thinking "This is the right approach, I need to go for the weak spot" only to watch it continue chasing people for another 60 seconds (bleeding to death) and still potentially be able to one shot crush them. Meanwhile the old 'railgun 2-shot to the leg then shoot the fleshy bit' combo meant that it could be killed in about 10 seconds from over 50m away with way better ammo efficiency. The rear weak spot never seemed to get weaker after seriously wounding it, and that made it feel like a wasted effort.
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Mar 12, 2024 12:12
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Only now that it's been pointed out, I've realised that I was doing the charger wrong this whole time. So many rounds spent. So many wasted reinforcements.
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Mar 12, 2024 12:15
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Meh on Charger change tbh. Not sure how much practical difference it'll make.
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Mar 12, 2024 12:26
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Dandywalken posted:Meh on Charger change tbh. Not sure how much practical difference it'll make. i think it'll quietly be helpful for new players i know my (and everybody else in my group's) first reaction to encountering chargers was to shoot an EAT fruitlessly into it's skull might also make the RR a more viable choice to bring vs bugs if you can reliably expect a quick shot to the front to kill, rather than needing to line up on the leg with follow up
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Mar 12, 2024 12:34
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Dandywalken posted:Meh on Charger change tbh. Not sure how much practical difference it'll make. its a huge difference, rr and eat one shot kill chargers now. bile titans however lmao, i just tested and got 4 RR shots directly to the head and its not even showing broken armor in conclusion, RR/eat still suck if you have to deal with titans, just bring orbitals instead
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Mar 12, 2024 12:34
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"hunters are bs they shouldn't attack so fast or do so much damage" incoming in 3... 2... A increase in the number of spewers would also make that monkey paw curl. They're a tough bug map to deal with.
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Mar 12, 2024 12:42
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here's hoping that eventually players catch on that it can be good to bring machineguns or other anti-swarm support weapons
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Mar 12, 2024 12:44
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I think they change too much at the same time tbh. Like the rail gun nerf was exacerbated because they bumped up heavies spawning. And now they're lowering heavies spawning while making them much more straight forward to deal with. Looking forward forward to the hell dives are too easy crew revving up. PS apparently arc throwers are even more effective against chargers, going from 8 head shots to 6. I'm surprised it's not the obvious bug meta weapon already.
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Mar 12, 2024 12:45
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Happy that my choice to try and take machineguns on bug hunts is vindicated
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Mar 12, 2024 12:45
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if everyone else is taking AC and railgun etc then be the hero and take the stalwart and set to the max RPM
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Mar 12, 2024 12:48
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Eediot Jedi posted:I think they change too much at the same time tbh. Like the rail gun nerf was exacerbated because they bumped up heavies spawning. And now they're lowering heavies spawning while making them much more straight forward to deal with. Looking forward forward to the hell dives are too easy crew revving up. Depending on what they've changed alongside the reduced charger and titan spawn I'm not sure that this will be easier, they aren't hard creatures to deal with in an organized manner. Arc thrower will likely pack more oomph and cluster bomb / air burst finding more value but there are tradeoffs there as well.
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Mar 12, 2024 12:48
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MissMarple posted:It's often the case that devs have spent a lot of time on a lot of different older versions of the game and so will have habits that you wouldn't develop if you come at it entirely fresh (and also aren't necessarily easily discoverable by short isolated user testing). It's hard to unlearn how to do things, especially if you got decent at doing it. So yeah they might just be smashing the head with AT, or lighting up the butt as a group with Explosive ammo and it works for them and has always worked, and they only got armor stripping properly working in the last few months of dev so never really integrated it into their meta of how they play. Except this doesn't make sense - I can't see a path through Haz 8 or 9 that involves more than one AT rocket spent per Charger. Firing at the rear end? You'd need more than one person with a Scorcher to get that done in any real time, and that gun is trash. Maybe they're all just strategem savants? I don't know, but I desperately want to find out.
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Mar 12, 2024 12:50
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massive arc buffs with reduced charger head health and increased trash spawns. cant wait to try it out
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Mar 12, 2024 12:53
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It's likely 9 is really hard for the devs and they fail alot, since it's the hardest difficulty and they want people to struggle against it.
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Mar 12, 2024 12:53
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TheMostFrench posted:So many times I took off the rear end of a charger thinking "This is the right approach, I need to go for the weak spot" only to watch it continue chasing people for another 60 seconds (bleeding to death) and still potentially be able to one shot crush them. Meanwhile the old 'railgun 2-shot to the leg then shoot the fleshy bit' combo meant that it could be killed in about 10 seconds from over 50m away with way better ammo efficiency. The rear weak spot never seemed to get weaker after seriously wounding it, and that made it feel like a wasted effort. In a way, I suspect it always was a side effect of having enemies designed with locational damage and destructible parts. The moment you destroy one of the legs (that have less hp than the main body!) the enemy is dead, because from what I've seen enemies aren't able to continue fighting if they are missing one of the legs, the same happens with other smaller enemies (like the Brood Commander or the Hive Guard), as much they have a brief, limping animation and then they fall to the ground, it isn't like say, some zombie shooters where zombies continue advancing more slowly if they are missing some limbs.
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Mar 12, 2024 12:54
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flashman posted:It's likely 9 is really hard for the devs and they fail alot, since it's the hardest difficulty and they want people to struggle against it. It always hilarious to me how some people complain that x game or x difficulty is too hard and * demand * seeing the developers beating said x. That's dumb, because developers also have to take in account the players that are better at videogames than them, or hell, people that are more masochists than them. Being a game developer doesn't mean you are in the top 0.1% of of gamers by skill, not even in that specific genre. Do they think that Capcom devs can beat all the world champion pros in Street Fighter?
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Mar 12, 2024 12:58
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God, if even more hunters are going to be spawning maybe I should finally buy the stalwart.Spookydonut posted:its very dumb you can put like most of a clip of the autocannon into the chargers butt and it doesnt die Infinitum posted:1-2 rounds should be all it takes to make big bug butts go boom
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Mar 12, 2024 12:59
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Stalwart is def nice.
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Mar 12, 2024 13:00
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Turin Turambar posted:It always hilarious to me how some people complain that x game or x difficulty is too hard and * demand * seeing the developers beating said x. gamer (derogatory) brain rot is a seriously debilitating condition
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Mar 12, 2024 13:02
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Turin Turambar posted:In a way, I suspect it always was a side effect of having enemies designed with locational damage and destructible parts. The moment you destroy one of the legs (that have less hp than the main body!) the enemy is dead, because from what I've seen enemies aren't able to continue fighting if they are missing one of the legs, the same happens with other smaller enemies (like the Brood Commander or the Hive Guard), as much they have a brief, limping animation and then they fall to the ground, it isn't like say, some zombie shooters where zombies continue advancing more slowly if they are missing some limbs. Mate I've had a brood commander go Monty Python black knight and slither after me for a surprisingly long time missing both claws and at least one leg, maybe more I can't remember.
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Mar 12, 2024 13:11
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Had one yesterday in fact lol
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Mar 12, 2024 13:12
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It's so freaky, devs did a great job of giving the bugs a lot of behaviours that make them feel more like real animals. I adore seeing the hunters do their little alert pose with their wings before excitedly jumping around 
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Mar 12, 2024 13:34
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Turin Turambar posted:I mean, if we talk of making things intuitive, the 'obvious weak point' of the Charger is the butt not the head, which have a different color and doesn't seem armored like the rest. lol I was gonna say, great change but how was the heavily armored head ever considered obvious compared to the fleshy butt that gives you red hitmarkers from anything (except secretly both were traps)
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Mar 12, 2024 13:57
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one of the 7 I played after the patch had tons of hunters, definite more as I've seen before and unrelated to charger appearances. Like normal patrols and objective spawns had more of them. There were I think 3 chargers top and at the end 2 bile titans simultaniously but so many hunters. It was one of the flat extracts though and just 3 people so anyways lot harder to defend as extracts with choke points and elevation.
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Mar 12, 2024 14:01
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raverrn posted:Except this doesn't make sense - I can't see a path through Haz 8 or 9. It's completely fair to think this is an rear end backwards way of developing, but at no point gave they indicated they expect people to be able to get through 8 and 9, they have clearly just extended the levers they have beyond what they think is dealable with and gone "Let's see if anyone can beat it". As pointed out, at a certain point you are balancing for beyond your own skill. I think right now it's turned out not to be a skill issue as much as a tactical one though, with a combination of things they probably weren't incorporating into their playstyle being very effective, and there being some bugs that mean things can get dealt with in unintended ways*. Through the lens of "they had fallen into a groove for their playstyle where they weren't discovering new optimal tactics as the game developed, and subsequently balanced the game so that that capped out at 7 and beyond that was just assuming some players would be better than them" a lot of how things are broadly make absolute sense. I'm happy to see them make quite broad chages each week as the player base go hard at the game to try to zero in on what is good. I'd rather them make mistakes and have the balance be a bit wonky for a week and learn more than do tiny incremental changes that barely change anything. If the amount of content already knocking around being found by hackers is anything to go by they've already got enough stuff in place for at least 3 more Warbonds after this Thursday, not to mention some more Strategms dropping via Events. I'm gonna enjoy that ride and if there are weeks where it's easier or harder so be it. (*The "Charger turning" vulnerability feels like some animation flaw that's moving hitboxes into weird places to allow for damage in places it shouldn't, and god knows what's going on with the Bile Titans differences with PS5 players in the lobby, or what the actual intended mechanic is that was allowing people to dome them so easily with a Railgun)
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Mar 12, 2024 14:12
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I dunno how much my opinion is worth since I've never played anything higher than 7, but I'm a little bummed about the changes to Chargers. I kinda liked the minigame you had to play with stripping the armor off the leg with targeted shots, and I thought it was a really ballsy move to make them so resistant to damage otherwise, even on the apparent weakspot, felt like the devs weren't shying away from making specific demands of you. Feels a lot dumber of an enemy if you can just kill it with a headshot. I had a really good game last night where we were getting lots of charger and titan spawns and my team was just doing such a great job handling them as they came, woulda felt a lot less exhilarating if we were just blasting them in the face like every other bug. So hey, I've wasted a ton of medals buying pointless cosmetics on the Steeled Veterans warbond, and consequently even at level 37 I've only just now unlocked the Slugger. Is there anything else really good on the standard warbond that I should rush to, or should I save my medals til Thursday for the new one? The only guns that are left are the Spray-and-Pray and the Scorcher, and I've heard they're trash. Phenotype fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Mar 12, 2024 |
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Mar 12, 2024 14:30
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Phenotype posted:I dunno how much my opinion is worth since I've never played anything higher than 7, but I'm a little bummed about the changes to Chargers. I kinda liked the minigame you had to play with stripping the armor off the leg with targeted shots, and I thought it was a really ballsy move to make them so resistant to damage otherwise, even on the apparent weakspot. Feels a lot dumber of an enemy if you can just kill it with a headshot. I had a really good game last night where we were getting lots of charger and titan spawns and my team was just doing such a great job handling them as they came, woulda felt a lot less exhilarating if we were just blasting them in the face like every other bug. I liked the dynamic that chargers brought to the field but I think they had too much of a flattening effect on viable loadouts, like if you didn't bring a lot of dedicated anti armor you risked getting overrun really quickly. Mostly I just want more of an excuse to pack an MG. Phenotype posted:So hey, I've wasted a ton of medals buying pointless cosmetics on the Steeled Veterans warbond, and consequently even at level 37 I've only just now unlocked the Slugger. Is there anything else really good on the standard warbond that I should rush to, or should I save my medals til Thursday for the new one? The only guns that are left are the Spray-and-Pray and the Scorcher, and I've heard they're trash. The Slugger is the last really good item in the free pass in my opinion, the Scorcher is solid but probably not worth beelining for. The Spray And Pray is still pretty bad.
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Mar 12, 2024 14:36
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Phenotype posted:I dunno how much my opinion is worth since I've never played anything higher than 7, but I'm a little bummed about the changes to Chargers. I kinda liked the minigame you had to play with stripping the armor off the leg with targeted shots, and I thought it was a really ballsy move to make them so resistant to damage otherwise, even on the apparent weakspot, felt like the devs weren't shying away from making specific demands of you. Feels a lot dumber of an enemy if you can just kill it with a headshot. I had a really good game last night where we were getting lots of charger and titan spawns and my team was just doing such a great job handling them as they came, woulda felt a lot less exhilarating if we were just blasting them in the face like every other bug. I'd probably save, but they aren't trash. The Scorcher is solid, it just has ammo consumption issues. The Spray and Pray is basically the old Breaker with less spike damage - insane damage per mag controllable on full auto; with the bonus that it is more efficient vs. small bugs than the breaker was.
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Mar 12, 2024 14:42
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https://i.imgur.com/rth2GD4.mp4
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Mar 12, 2024 14:51
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Phenotype posted:I dunno how much my opinion is worth since I've never played anything higher than 7, but I'm a little bummed about the changes to Chargers. I kinda liked the minigame you had to play with stripping the armor off the leg with targeted shots, and I thought it was a really ballsy move to make them so resistant to damage otherwise, even on the apparent weakspot, felt like the devs weren't shying away from making specific demands of you. Feels a lot dumber of an enemy if you can just kill it with a headshot. I had a really good game last night where we were getting lots of charger and titan spawns and my team was just doing such a great job handling them as they came, woulda felt a lot less exhilarating if we were just blasting them in the face like every other bug. The issue with Chargers was never to kill a pair of them attacking your group. The issue was a pair of them, and a 20-something chaff group attacking in a flank, and 8 Hunters on the opposite flank suddenly appearing and jumping on you slowing you down, and a Titan closing in dangerously. So right now I won't claim how easy is to deal with the Chargers now with their new less-armored head, I'm at work and haven't played with the update, maybe the increased amount of other enemies they mention will make nailing down the Chargers as difficult as before.
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Mar 12, 2024 14:52
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my favourite way to pick weapons is by feel, which is why i almost never use the railgun except when i expect hulks because it feels awful, i don't want a space musket
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Mar 12, 2024 14:53
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who's ready for a little bug control https://x.com/helldivers2/status/1767548456829108675?s=20
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Mar 12, 2024 14:58
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I haven't tested it yet, but the Spray & Pray does seem good against bugs, yeah.
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Mar 12, 2024 14:59
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Phenotype posted:I dunno how much my opinion is worth since I've never played anything higher than 7, but I'm a little bummed about the changes to Chargers. I kinda liked the minigame you had to play with stripping the armor off the leg with targeted shots, and I thought it was a really ballsy move to make them so resistant to damage otherwise, even on the apparent weakspot, felt like the devs weren't shying away from making specific demands of you. Feels a lot dumber of an enemy if you can just kill it with a headshot. I had a really good game last night where we were getting lots of charger and titan spawns and my team was just doing such a great job handling them as they came, woulda felt a lot less exhilarating if we were just blasting them in the face like every other bug. My beef with the charger minigame was that I couldn't do much as an observer to a charge. as in my teammate is getting it face on, and I am perpendicular, well good luck Jimmy, I can't actually pen with my autocannon
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Mar 12, 2024 15:00
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| # ? May 27, 2024 03:26 |
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ijyt posted:my favourite way to pick weapons is by feel, which is why i almost never use the railgun except when i expect hulks because it feels awful, i don't want a space musket Yeah the railgun just feels like a primary and it's boring. All the support weapons should be unwieldy but devastating. I want a railgun like the one Rusty fires in the worm mission in AC6
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Mar 12, 2024 15:01
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